How to prevent rape

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 14:27:45 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:19:28 GMT -5 imawino said:

You know, I was pretty sure I didn't. But I looked at it again anyway. It is still stating that the number of women who are "raped" is nearly equivalent to the number of men who are victims of "other sexual assault" while leaving out the number of WOMEN who are victims of "other sexual assault" (which is a far greater number than the number of women who reported being raped).  So the rates of sexual violence against men and women are NOT THE SAME.  I did not say that it's nothing when a man is sexually assaulted.   But your insistence that men and women are raped at the same rate is not true. 

Ok,  sure.  It's not as important when a man is a victim,  because it doesn't happen as much as it happens to women. I'm sure that knowing that the crimes they are victims of that is classified as more trivial form of sexual assault will be a great comfort to them. 

If you would like to continue to assert that's what I said, when what I actually said is that the numbers are not equal, I give up.    You said the numbers were equal. I said they are not.  I never assigned importance to either.  End of story. 

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:30:01 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:24:25 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Exactly...I'm even getting replied to in CAPS over this issue. I forgot...I am only allowed to post about what the liberals agree with. Noted and moving on

First of all, it's hilarious that you are quoting a post filled with CAPS that is agreeing with you to complain about people posting with CAPS. Second of all, if liberals are against victim-blaming, I'm pretty cool with that. I'm not sure how rape just got turned into a political thing?

I later replied that I shouldn't have used liberal as it isn't political...I tend to lump feminazi and liberals in together..my bad

And I did the caps on purpose...I find this entire thread hysterical. Why not say we can stop all crimes just by talking to children and letting them know that "murder, stealing, raping, etc" is bad? Shit...why didn't someone think of this sooner? Imagine how safe our country would be!

[justme]

I'll be one of the crazies that say no person should be told or taught how to prevent someone from raping them. Because that's one millimeter away from wondering what they did wrong if they are raped.

Everyone should be taught to keep themselves safe. Know where they're going, who they're going with, don't leave anything unattended, be smart about drinking because it alters your mind etc. Everyone should also be taught about respect, and boundaries, and how no means no whether you're talking about extra ketchup or sex.

Why it's do hard to see the difference between the two escapes me.

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:27:27 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:21:57 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I'll respond to this: it doesn't seem obvious that people who've been responding here would tell their daughters to take precautions because if even ONE person mentions that women (or just people in general) should take precautions to ensure their safety, that is apparently tantamount to EVERYONE saying that the victim is the only person to be held responsible for the rape. This happens every time on here and it gets tiring REALLY fast.

I think it's the opposite. Every time anyone tries to have a discussion about not blaming the victim, a bunch of people respond " well yeah, sure, of course,  BUT.....".    That's what is tiring.   Why can't a conversation about focusing on the perpetrator be allowed to just be about that?  And not ALSO ways that the women need to be educated to be fearful of being out alone after dark? 

Can you speak to the gangs, too? It is really impeding my rights as a female not to be able to stroll into down town Newark at 3am......I should be able to go wherever I want and do whatever I want without any fear of someone hurting me...

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:33:50 GMT -5 justme said:

I'll be one of the crazies that day no person should be told or taught how to prevent someone from raping them. Because that's one millimeter away from wondering what they did wrong if they are raped.

Everyone should be taught to keep themselves safe. Know where they're going, who they're going with, don't leave anything unattended, be smart about drinking because it alters your mind etc. Everyone should also be taught about respect, and boundaries, and how no means no whether you're talking about extra ketchup or sex.

Why it's do hard to see the difference between the two escapes me.

Then I hope you don't lock your car or your house because that is one step away from blaming yourself if you get robbed

[justme]

Mar 19, 2015 14:27:45 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:19:28 GMT -5 imawino said:

You know, I was pretty sure I didn't. But I looked at it again anyway. It is still stating that the number of women who are "raped" is nearly equivalent to the number of men who are victims of "other sexual assault" while leaving out the number of WOMEN who are victims of "other sexual assault" (which is a far greater number than the number of women who reported being raped).  So the rates of sexual violence against men and women are NOT THE SAME.  I did not say that it's nothing when a man is sexually assaulted.   But your insistence that men and women are raped at the same rate is not true. 

Ok,  sure.  It's not as important when a man is a victim,  because it doesn't happen as much as it happens to women. I'm sure that knowing that the crimes they are victims of that is classified as more trivial form of sexual assault will be a great comfort to them. 

I think the point was to compare apples to apples if your statement was that men are assaulted as much as women. If you're looking at rapes of women it should be compared to rapes of men not other sexual assaults.

[Miss Tequila]

In that note, I am bowing out of this thread. I am reading a ton of bat shit crazy stuff and I dint feelike arguing. I have no idea why rapists should be taught not to rape but not murderers, drug dealers, etc. it makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Deleted]

This thread is confusing the hell out of me.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 19, 2015 14:28:55 GMT -5 midjd said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:26:49 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I can't think of a single one that hasn't featured that sentiment.

Search for "blaming the victim" and watch 8 million YMAM rape threads pop up. It's not a novel topic.

Ah, I misunderstood. I took your comment to mean that all rape threads focused on what potential rapists should do to prevent it (as this one was intended to be).

But no, you're correct. This thread and every other rape thread has devolved into what women should do to be "safer." Because women are the only ones who are raped, and apparently the only ones who should try to prevent it.

I'm merely observing that

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

Blaming the Victim

which are from the first two pages of 50+ pages of search results are all threads where either the OP is tantamount to "don't blame the victim" or else the OP is tantamount to "women shouldn't do this" and "don't blame the victim" features prominently or exclusively as the consensus in the thread.

The idea that this is the first time a "blame the rapist, not the victim" thread has been created is ludicrous. Unless your long-term memory shorts out at two weeks.

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 14:34:51 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:32:17 GMT -5 imawino said:

If you would like to continue to assert that's what I said, when what I actually said is that the numbers are not equal, I give up.    You said the numbers were equal. I said they are not.  I never assigned importance to either.  End of story. 

But they are equal until the definitions are changed. 

No, they are equal if you INCLUDE men who are victims of "other sexual violence" and EXCLUDE women who are victims of "other sexual violence".    They included women who were raped and made it equal to men who were raped AND encountered other sexual violence. 

[justme]

Mar 19, 2015 14:36:15 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:33:50 GMT -5 justme said:

I'll be one of the crazies that day no person should be told or taught how to prevent someone from raping them. Because that's one millimeter away from wondering what they did wrong if they are raped.

Everyone should be taught to keep themselves safe. Know where they're going, who they're going with, don't leave anything unattended, be smart about drinking because it alters your mind etc. Everyone should also be taught about respect, and boundaries, and how no means no whether you're talking about extra ketchup or sex.

Why it's do hard to see the difference between the two escapes me.

Then I hope you don't lock your car or your house because that is one step away from blaming yourself if you get robbed

Read my words before going off on an unfunded assumption. I'd appreciate it as locking your car doors would fall under keeping yourself safe for most individuals.

[MJ2.0]

Mar 19, 2015 14:27:27 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:21:57 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I'll respond to this: it doesn't seem obvious that people who've been responding here would tell their daughters to take precautions because if even ONE person mentions that women (or just people in general) should take precautions to ensure their safety, that is apparently tantamount to EVERYONE saying that the victim is the only person to be held responsible for the rape. This happens every time on here and it gets tiring REALLY fast.

I think it's the opposite. Every time anyone tries to have a discussion about not blaming the victim, a bunch of people respond " well yeah, sure, of course,  BUT.....".    That's what is tiring.   Why can't a conversation about focusing on the perpetrator be allowed to just be about that?  And not ALSO ways that the women need to be educated to be fearful of being out alone after dark? 

I didn't realize that encouraging people to take responsibility for their safety was blaming them. I thought it was, you know, just common sense. And last I checked, this was a relatively free message board so conversations go all kinds of ways.

I don't know what other language I need to speak in order for you guys to realize that keeping your personal space as safe as you can isn't victim-blaming. That logic is completely ludicrous and I can't for the life of me understand it. Do we blame people who get robbed for not locking their homes better or people who get their cars stolen for leaving them in a sketchy area? And yet we all still take measures to secure those things. Whether you like it or not, robbery, murder, and rape are all forms of theft. Why is it okay to talk about safeguarding against some types and not others?

[midjd]

The idea that this is the first time a "blame the rapist, not the victim" thread has been created is ludicrous. Unless your long-term memory shorts out at two weeks.

If you could find a thread that started as a "blame the rapist" thread and didn't devolve into a "what women should do to stay safe" (aka protect themselves from being raped) thread within the first two pages, I'd love to see it.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 19, 2015 14:38:10 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I'm out... you guys are working very hard to make this all about women victims.   I don't understand it,  but whatever, carry on. 

Rape victims are female... what... 95% of the time? 98% of the time?

I'm fine with using "he" raped "she" with the implicit understanding that men can be raped too, and women can be rapists.

I don't understand what laterbloomer hopes to accomplish with this thread, but c'est la vie.

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:40:22 GMT -5 justme said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:36:15 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Then I hope you don't lock your car or your house because that is one step away from blaming yourself if you get robbed

Read my words before going off on an unfunded assumption. I'd appreciate it as locking your car doors would fall under keeping yourself safe for most individuals.

I only read the first paragraph...I'm actually trying to work!lol. Again...my bad
And now I'm really done with this thread.

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 14:35:13 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:27:27 GMT -5 imawino said:

I think it's the opposite. Every time anyone tries to have a discussion about not blaming the victim, a bunch of people respond " well yeah, sure, of course,  BUT.....".    That's what is tiring.   Why can't a conversation about focusing on the perpetrator be allowed to just be about that?  And not ALSO ways that the women need to be educated to be fearful of being out alone after dark? 

Can you speak to the gangs, too? It is really impeding my rights as a female not to be able to stroll into down town Newark at 3am......I should be able to go wherever I want and do whatever I want without any fear of someone hurting me...

So you're saying it should truly be unthinkable to have a discussion about any sort of crime without ever talking about what the victim did wrong? It's NEVER okay to have one single discussion about rape that does not turn into what the women should be doing to prevent being raped?  And for that matter, aren't there scenarios where the woman actually does everything right and still ends up getting raped?  Aren't there scenarios where the house was indeed locked and someone got robbed anyway? 

[Deleted]

Mar 19, 2015 14:42:29 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:38:10 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I'm out... you guys are working very hard to make this all about women victims.   I don't understand it,  but whatever, carry on. 

Rape victims are female... what... 95% of the time? 98% of the time?

I'm fine with using "he" raped "she" with the implicit understanding that men can be raped too, and women can be rapists.

I don't understand what laterbloomer hopes to accomplish with this thread, but c'est la vie.

Why post on a thread you have no interest in?

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 19, 2015 14:41:36 GMT -5 midjd said:

The idea that this is the first time a "blame the rapist, not the victim" thread has been created is ludicrous. Unless your long-term memory shorts out at two weeks.

If you could find a thread that started as a "blame the rapist" thread and didn't devolve into a "what women should do to stay safe" (aka protect themselves from being raped) thread within the first two pages, I'd love to see it.

Because what else are you going to talk about?

Poster 1: Rape is bad.
Poster 2: Yup. Bad.
Poster 1: Real bad. People shouldn't do it.
Poster 2: Nope. It's bad.
Poster 1: I knew somebody who got raped.
Poster 2: That's bad.
Poster 1: I might get drunk one day and get raped. It will be the rapist's fault.
Poster 2: Yup. That rapist is bad.
Poster 1: I worry about my daughter at the university. If she's attacked in an alleyway, it won't be her fault she's raped.
Poster 2: Nope.
Poster 1: Did I mention that people shouldn't rape other people?
Poster 2: Amen. Rape is bad.


That's your thread right there. Now let it never be said there's never been a thread that didn't "devolve" into a discussion on what people can reasonably do to protect themselves.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 19, 2015 14:46:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:42:29 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Rape victims are female... what... 95% of the time? 98% of the time?

I'm fine with using "he" raped "she" with the implicit understanding that men can be raped too, and women can be rapists.

I don't understand what laterbloomer hopes to accomplish with this thread, but c'est la vie.

Why post on a thread you have no interest in?

Initially to point out that you were employing satire to make a point after throwing a fit when I posted a lightbulb joke in your previous thread.

Then, to respond to people's criticisms.

I should also point out that not being able to assay the purpose of a thread doesn't automatically imply that one has no interest in it. However, I've contributed pretty much everything I can, so I'll leave you ladies and gentlemen to it.

[Deleted]

Mar 19, 2015 14:47:42 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:41:36 GMT -5 midjd said:

If you could find a thread that started as a "blame the rapist" thread and didn't devolve into a "what women should do to stay safe" (aka protect themselves from being raped) thread within the first two pages, I'd love to see it.

Because what else are you going to talk about?

Poster 1: Rape is bad.
Poster 2: Yup. Bad.
Poster 1: Real bad. People shouldn't do it.
Poster 2: Nope. It's bad.
Poster 1: I knew somebody who got raped.
Poster 2: That's bad.
Poster 1: I might get drunk one day and get raped. It will be the rapist's fault.
Poster 2: Yup. That racist is bad.
Poster 1: I worry about my daughter at the university. If she's attacked in an alleyway, it won't be her fault she's raped.
Poster 2: Nope.
Poster 1: Did I mention that people should rape other people?
Poster 2: Amen. Rape is bad.


That's your thread right there. Now let it never be said there's never been a thread that didn't "devolve" into a discussion on what people can reasonably do to protect themselves.

Virgil if you don't like the thread go away.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 19, 2015 14:50:39 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:47:42 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Because what else are you going to talk about?

Poster 1: Rape is bad.
Poster 2: Yup. Bad.
Poster 1: Real bad. People shouldn't do it.
Poster 2: Nope. It's bad.
Poster 1: I knew somebody who got raped.
Poster 2: That's bad.
Poster 1: I might get drunk one day and get raped. It will be the rapist's fault.
Poster 2: Yup. That racist is bad.
Poster 1: I worry about my daughter at the university. If she's attacked in an alleyway, it won't be her fault she's raped.
Poster 2: Nope.
Poster 1: Did I mention that people should rape other people?
Poster 2: Amen. Rape is bad.


That's your thread right there. Now let it never be said there's never been a thread that didn't "devolve" into a discussion on what people can reasonably do to protect themselves.

Virgil if you don't like the thread go away.

I'm beaming out now, cap'n.

[Deleted]

Mar 19, 2015 14:50:27 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:46:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Why post on a thread you have no interest in?

Initially to point out that you were employing satire to make a point after throwing a fit when I posted a lightbulb joke in your previous thread.

Hold a grudge much?

[The Captain]

Mar 19, 2015 14:42:29 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:38:10 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

I'm out... you guys are working very hard to make this all about women victims.   I don't understand it,  but whatever, carry on. 

Rape victims are female... what... 95% of the time? 98% of the time?

I'm fine with using "he" raped "she" with the implicit understanding that men can be raped too, and women can be rapists.

I don't understand what laterbloomer hopes to accomplish with this thread, but c'est la vie.

Actually the statistics are much higher than that.  The link to the source data is included in the article, but in general I find Slate doesn't sensationalise too much.

www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

ast year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men. The number seemed so high that it prompted researcher Lara Stemple to call the Bureau of Justice Statistics to see if it maybe it had made a mistake, or changed its terminology. After all, in years past men had accounted for somewhere between 5 and 14 percent of rape and sexual violence victims. But no, it wasn’t a mistake, officials told her, although they couldn’t explain the rise beyond guessing that maybe it had something to do with the publicity surrounding former football coach Jerry Sandusky and the Penn State sex abuse scandal.

[MJ2.0]

okay, so in order to post on this thread you have to:

a) only bring up how to stop/prevent rape and nothing else
b) agree with the OP on all of his/her talking points

Well, I'm glad this message board is in favor of open discourse.

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:44:01 GMT -5 imawino said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:35:13 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Can you speak to the gangs, too? It is really impeding my rights as a female not to be able to stroll into down town Newark at 3am......I should be able to go wherever I want and do whatever I want without any fear of someone hurting me...

So you're saying it should truly be unthinkable to have a discussion about any sort of crime without ever talking about what the victim did wrong? It's NEVER okay to have one single discussion about rape that does not turn into what the women should be doing to prevent being raped?  And for that matter, aren't there scenarios where the woman actually does everything right and still ends up getting raped?  Aren't there scenarios where the house was indeed locked and someone got robbed anyway? 

I'm trying to quit this thread!

I think it is crazy to think that talking to boys as they grow will prevent true rape. Maybe the debatable rape (too drunk to give informed consent) but even that I'm not so sure about.

There are good parents and there are shitty parents. Of course good parents will raise teach their sons the right things about women, rape, etc. just like good parents would teach their kids not to murder, steal, etc. but all of these things continue to happen on a daily basis. Not all kids have good parents and even some kids with good parents turn out to be awful people.

I think it is great that mothers are teaching their sons right...but you all are delusional if you think that is enough to stop rape, murder, theft, etx

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 14:55:43 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

okay, so in order to post on this thread you have to:

a) only bring up how to stop/prevent rape and nothing else
b) agree with the OP on all of his/her talking points

Well, I'm glad this message board is in favor of open discourse.

Pretty much...

[Deleted]

I think it is great that mothers are teaching their sons right...but you all are delusional if you think that is enough to stop rape, murder, theft, etx

No one said it was enough. I do say that it is an area that is neglected. I think making this a big topic will help young be people very sure of their ground if they see anyone behaving inappropriately. Many times people get the nerve to commit crimes because they believe they will get away with it. If we do a better job of not having them get away with it, they will not have that confidence.

[The Captain]

Mar 19, 2015 14:55:43 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

okay, so in order to post on this thread you have to:

a) only bring up how to stop/prevent rape and nothing else
b) agree with the OP on all of his/her talking points

Well, I'm glad this message board is in favor of open discourse.

Or,

3) be pigheaded and throw other nuances into the conversation in the hope that people will see there is more than one way to view an issue.

Yes - we are in favor of open discourse.  It's how some define that very phrase therein lies the problem.

[milee]

Mar 19, 2015 14:58:34 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 19, 2015 14:44:01 GMT -5 imawino said:

So you're saying it should truly be unthinkable to have a discussion about any sort of crime without ever talking about what the victim did wrong? It's NEVER okay to have one single discussion about rape that does not turn into what the women should be doing to prevent being raped?  And for that matter, aren't there scenarios where the woman actually does everything right and still ends up getting raped?  Aren't there scenarios where the house was indeed locked and someone got robbed anyway? 

I'm trying to quit this thread!

I think it is crazy to think that talking to boys as they grow will prevent true rape. Maybe the debatable rape (too drunk to give informed consent) but even that I'm not so sure about.

There are good parents and there are shitty parents. Of course good parents will raise teach their sons the right things about women, rape, etc. just like good parents would teach their kids not to murder, steal, etc. but all of these things continue to happen on a daily basis. Not all kids have good parents and even some kids with good parents turn out to be awful people.

I think it is great that mothers are teaching their sons right...but you all are delusional if you think that is enough to stop rape, murder, theft, etx

Totally agree that parents talking to their boys won't stop all rape.  I should be clear that I agree with the general gist of the article Justme posted - that showed that there is a small fraction of men that will rape no matter what.  But there's a larger fraction of men who will commit what the law, colleges and many women consider to be rape... mostly because the men don't understand what they're doing is actually rape. 

This sounds like the case in many of the recent college rape incidents in the headlines.  I don't think our colleges are filled with guys who are hardcore rapists stalking women and raping with no care.  I think a significant portion of the college rapists are boys who honestly don't understand that having sex with a drunk girl is rape even if she's the one that invited you over for sex and then took the boy's pants off, for example.  I also think a lot of boys aren't raised being specifically taught that being a drunken asshole can get them in as much trouble as it can the girls.  Many parents are talking to boys about not driving drunk and about wearing condoms when having sex, but I think few parents are talking to boys about not getting so trashed at a party that they lose the ability to navigate the complexities of consent, coercion, impairment, etc.   

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 15:03:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I think it is great that mothers are teaching their sons right...but you all are delusional if you think that is enough to stop rape, murder, theft, etx

No one said it was enough. I do say that it is an area that is neglected. I think making this a big topic will help young be people very sure of their ground if they see anyone behaving inappropriately. Many times people get the nerve to commit crimes because they believe they will get away with it. If we do a better job of not having them get away with it, they will not have that confidence.

I can see that in a college frat party situation where alcohol and bad choices are involved. I don't see it working with a true rapist.