How to prevent rape

[Deleted]

[ArchietheDragon]

[shanendoah]

I shared this on FB and have a long conversation about it going on over there.

[TheHaitian]

:eek:

[HoneyBBQ]

Yeah I saw this and saw a lot of people laughing at it, etc.

I consider myself to have a pretty good sense of humor, and I just don't see anything funny or witty about it at all.

[justme]

www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/but-what-was-he-wearing

How not to be set on fire.



For those that don't want to click, a women set her rapist on fire and then when the story was posted on tumblr comments were posted asking why the guy wasn't wearing fire retardant clothing and other questions similar to what rape victims are often asked.

[Opti]

Mar 19, 2015 11:53:48 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Interesting that it's all about the men being the rapist.  Hmm.. Do they have one aimed at women rapists?

 














(That's how you stir the pot Archie)

Actually that is one of its weaknesses, including ignoring men on men rape...

But it is nice to see something blaming those who choose to rape once in awhile.

[ArchietheDragon]

Mar 19, 2015 11:53:48 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Interesting that it's all about the men being the rapist.  Hmm.. Do they have one aimed at women rapists?

 














(That's how you stir the pot Archie)

Actually there is nothing about it that references men being the rapist.   That is just your predisposed prejudice against men that makes you read it and assume a man is doing the raping.  

[shanendoah]

HoneyBBQ - I don't see it as funny or witty. I see it as honest. No one thinks twice about posting rules for women (yes, those rules are almost always directly aimed at women) on how not to be raped, which is part of a culture of victim blaming. Instead, I think it is important to change who we aim the rules at. No one has any problems telling their kids outright - don't lie, cheat, or steal. What's wrong with saying outright - don't rape?

@sroo4 - If you read the rules, it says absolutely NOTHING about who the rapist is. It does pretty much say women are the only victims of rape, and I do disagree with that. I mentioned in my post on FB that it would be better if the gendered language were left out of it. The point is, instead of telling people not to get raped, instead tell people not to rape.

[ArchietheDragon]

Mar 19, 2015 12:06:10 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:02:27 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Actually there is nothing about it that references men being the rapist.   That is just your predisposed prejudice against men that makes you read it and assume a man is doing the raping.  

Ok,  I'll restate: 

Interesting that it's all about the men being the rapist  women being raped. Hmm.. Do they have one aimed at women rapists about men being raped?

cats out of the bag manhater. 

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 12:10:54 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:08:16 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

cats out of the bag manhater. 

How am I the man hater?  I wanted them to have equal opportunity in the rape prevention tips. I did sadly show my bias by jumping to the heterosexual conclusion and not thinking of homosexual instances of rape.  My bad. 

I don't think it has anything to do with sexual orientation.  People get sexually assaulted by members of the same gender who are not homosexual.

[ArchietheDragon]

Mar 19, 2015 12:10:54 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:08:16 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

cats out of the bag manhater. 

How am I the man hater?  I wanted them to have equal opportunity in the rape prevention tips. I did sadly show my bias by jumping to the heterosexual conclusion and not thinking of homosexual instances of rape.  My bad. 

You still can't even see a female committing a rape.  Sometimes it is hard to be a man and have to experience such prejudice.  

[MJ2.0]

do we REALLY have to do this here?

[milee]

Mar 19, 2015 11:50:08 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Yeah I saw this and saw a lot of people laughing at it, etc.

I consider myself to have a pretty good sense of humor, and I just don't see anything funny or witty about it at all.

I liked it because it's using a humorous approach to point out some things that people may otherwise have difficulty believing or understanding.   People are justifiably laughing at the ridiculousness of the suggestions - as they're supposed to do - because it's just so silly to think you have to tell someone so basic as "don't rape." But it's also a great way to point out how silly it is when people (wrongly) assume that women who are raped were dressed provocatively or were somehow doing or saying something that invited the attack. It's also a funny way to poke at the fact that all the rape prevention tips have traditionally been given to the wrong person... the victim.

I like it when we can use humor to convey things.  Making someone laugh at something ridiculous is a much more effective way to help someone understand something than lecturing them.  The subject matter isn't funny at all, but if by being funny the message is conveyed... then give me humor any day. 

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 11:56:01 GMT -5 justme said:

www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/but-what-was-he-wearing

How not to be set on fire.



For those that don't want to click, a women set her rapist on fire and then when the story was posted on tumblr comments were posted asking why the guy wasn't wearing fire retardant clothing and other questions similar to what rape victims are often asked.

I saw this the other day. Like others, I did not think it was "funny" in the sense that rape or murder or any violent crime is never amusing or humorous. But I did think the responses were a great illustration of how ridiculous victim-blaming commentary is.

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 12:17:24 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:13:49 GMT -5 imawino said:

I don't think it has anything to do with sexual orientation.  People get sexually assaulted by members of the same gender who are not homosexual.

Then we're back to making the assumption that it's men doing all the raping. 

I'm now very confused. 

I don't understand how you made that leap. Women can be raped by women or men. Men could be raped by men or women.   The majority of rape is man on woman, but that doesn't mean it never happens any other way.  My point was disagreeing with your assumption that for a man to be raped it had to be by a homosexual man.   Could be by a straight man or woman.  Rape isn't generally about sex and finding someone attractive.

[Opti]

Mar 19, 2015 12:02:27 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Mar 19, 2015 11:53:48 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Interesting that it's all about the men being the rapist.  Hmm.. Do they have one aimed at women rapists?

 














(That's how you stir the pot Archie)

Actually there is nothing about it that references men being the rapist.   That is just your predisposed prejudice against men that makes you read it and assume a man is doing the raping.  

Correct. It is our bias and what we hear in the media that there is no woman on woman rape.

Probably not true in certain jails...

[Opti]

I think it was created to highlight female rape victims.

Someone probably could create a more unisex one, but I think

they'd need to add some situations such as prison or a Kiterunner

scenario.

Then do you worry about the ageist aspect of it, because you'd be ignoring

child rape and possibly elder rape as there is no mention of kitchens or

being a caregiver?

If someone is so inclined, you could create your one off version and circulate

it to foster awareness and discussion.

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 12:31:53 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:24:34 GMT -5 imawino said:

I don't understand how you made that leap. Women can be raped by women or men. Men could be raped by men or women.   The majority of rape is man on woman, but that doesn't mean it never happens any other way.  My point was disagreeing with your assumption that for a man to be raped it had to be by a homosexual man.   Could be by a straight man or woman.  Rape isn't generally about sex and finding someone attractive.

But that's what I've been trying to get across.  The tips clearly indicate in most of lines that the victim is a woman.   

My first point was that it totally leaves out men as victims. 
Then I admitted my bias by leaping to the men being the rapists. 
Then I admitted my bias by not including women being the rapists and overlooking the homosexual instances of rape.

Personally if this leading to this much discussion and confusion I think it should be rewritten to take out all forms of gender/sex.  Otherwise it totally leaves out victims.

 

Ah.  When you said "homosexual" rape, I read it as you saying if a man was raped by a man or a woman by a woman,  the rapist was a homosexual.  So you are saying you just meant both the victim and rapist were of the same gender? 

I don't think every meme out there needs to be wholly inclusive of every possible scenario of something.    It's not a research paper.  And while rape can happen in many forms to either gender, the most common rape scenario is man on woman.   To expect a one frame meme to encompass every form of possible rape is a little bit much.   The existence of this meme does not preclude anyone from making one about men being raped. 

ETA:  Wait no.  I said  "People get sexually assaulted by members of the same gender who are not homosexual" and you responded that leaves us with only men as rapists.  That still makes no sense even with your later clarification. 

Women can be raped by men of any sexual orientation

Women can be raped by women of any sexual orientation

Men can be raped by men of either any orientation

Men can be raped by women of either any orientation

Rape isn't about sex and sexual attractiveness.

[HoneyBBQ]

I mean, I get it. I get what's it's doing. But I don't think fighting stupidity with more stupidity is the answer.

[Deleted]

@sroo4 get over it. We concede women can perpetrate rape and men can be victims. Now back to the point of the piece, I like that it focusses on the perpetrator rather than the victim. They are also running ads here pointing out that not telling helps the perpetrator, telling helps potential victims. I like the change in tone.

[Miss Tequila]

I found it funny. But I also don't think here is anything wrong with teaching my daughter not to out herself into certain situations which can make her vulnerable to rape. I think it is stupid not to take precautions. For example, I never set my drink down if I'm out and go to the bathroom. Too easy for some guy to out something int it. Following the logic in this thread, I shouldn't tell my daughter to make sure she never leaves her drink unattended because no one should be putting anything in it.

[Deleted]

Mar 19, 2015 12:58:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

That's not the logic of this thread. Tell your daughters what you want, but more emphasis needs to be put on the perpetrator and changing their behaviour.

I am always fascinated by how these topics always switch to defending men and insisting that women are still responsible for avoiding rape.

[imawino]

Mar 19, 2015 12:51:32 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:42:24 GMT -5 imawino said:

Ah.  When you said "homosexual" rape, I read it as you saying if a man was raped by a man or a woman by a woman,  the rapist was a homosexual.  So you are saying you just meant both the victim and rapist were of the same gender? ¹

I don't think every meme out there needs to be wholly inclusive of every possible scenario of something.    It's not a research paper.  And while rape can happen in many forms to either gender, the most common rape scenario is man on woman.   To expect a one frame meme to encompass every form of possible rape is a little bit much.   The existence of this meme does not preclude anyone from making one about men being raped.  ²

1:  Both actually.   If the victims are all women,  and we are not biased,  then the rapists could be either men or women.  Or to expand (much better than this list does) then both the victim and rapist could be men.  That's why I was saying I was showing heterosexual bias. 
2: Well I would argue that by excluding or limiting the victims to women it downplays all of the male victims.   No wonder males under-report.  Why wouldn't the creator be inclusive to all victims?   Unless the point was to, by way of presupposed bias, point to men not being able to control themselves.  I think that's wrong. 

The "heterosexual" bias you keep commenting on is really just showing that you think rape has something to do with sexual desire.   Unless I am just having a reading comprehension issue or you are stating something wrong.  Men can be raped by other men who are in fact heterosexual.   

I think the point was to show that victim-blaming is ridiculous. Not that men can't control themselves.

You know, when I see a meme about cute cats my natural inclination is not to ask "but what about the dogs?!?  Dogs can be awesome too!"  Once again, it's a meme, meant to get one point across.  No one expects it to solve the problems of all sexual assaults in the world. 

[Deleted]

You know, when I see a meme about cute cats my natural inclination is not to ask "but what about the dogs?!? Dogs can be awesome too!" Once again, it's a meme, meant to get one point across. No one expects it to solve the problems of all sexual assaults in the world.

[Lizard Queen]

I think it does a pretty good job of highlighting a double-standard.  We expect that spotential victims should take all sorts of precautions so as to prevent getting raped, when they're not doing anything wrong in the first place.  Meanwhile, the perpetrator gets the benefit of the doubt, or is simply ignored too much of the time.

(I never even thought about not putting my drink down.)

[milee]

I'm going to start another thread because I don't want to derail this one, but it also makes me wonder about how what parents choose to discuss and not discuss with their children of each gender either perpetuates or minimizes victim blaming.

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 19, 2015 13:03:52 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Mar 19, 2015 12:58:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

That's not the logic of this thread. Tell your daughters what you want, but more emphasis needs to be put on the perpetrator and changing their behaviour.

I am always fascinated by how these topics always switch to defending men and insisting that women are still responsible for avoiding rape.

How am I defending men? At the end of the day, there are bad people out there and we all need to do what we can to keep safe. I lock my doors in my home. No one should be coming in my house but I'm going to do what I can to stop someone intent on breaking into my house. I lock the doors of my SUV. No one has the right to go into my vehicle but I still lock it to do what I can to keep them out

The person robbing, killing, raping, etc is responsible for the crime. But that doesn't mean that the rest of us should never take precautions to attempt to prevent becoming their victim.

[MJ2.0]

Mar 19, 2015 12:58:42 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I found it funny. But I also don't think here is anything wrong with teaching my daughter not to out herself into certain situations which can make her vulnerable to rape. I think it is stupid not to take precautions. For example, I never set my drink down if I'm out and go to the bathroom. Too easy for some guy to out something int it. Following the logic in this thread, I shouldn't tell my daughter to make sure she never leaves her drink unattended because no one should be putting anything in it.

Right. We know that theft is wrong, and yet we still make a normal practice of locking our cars, homes, and taking other measures to keep our valuables safe. How is this any different? Teach the wrongness of rape (although that's self-evident, just like the wrongness of any other crime life theft or murder) AND take measures to be safe and aware of your surroundings.

[Deleted]

If the true point of this was to show victim blaming, then it did a piss poor job. It clearly indicates that women are the only victims. If the writers of this really cared about ending rape then it would have been inclusive to all victims. It's not that hard to remove the references to women from this, as they managed to do it in #7 and #9.

How often do you hear men told not to walk by parked cars at night?