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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 15:43:02 GMT -5
DH doesn't remember. It might have been a masters. She did not have the certification. It kind of supports your theory that you have to have a plan too though - she showed up late or not at all sometimes, talked about drunk she got on the weekends, and would show her new Coach purse to everyone in the building. She got fired.
She was Indian though and they had outsourced a good deal of their programming to India. That probably played a part in getting hired.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 24, 2011 15:49:42 GMT -5
My recruiter emailed me about an opening last year for a beginning project management spot in San Jose. Starting salary of $150k, no experience necessary. They were willing to accept resumes from people that were within one year of graduating with an IT management degree as long as they already had their PMP. I've never filled a project management slot, but I'm in a team lead position now and she thought I had a shot at the job.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 15:49:43 GMT -5
DH doesn't remember. It might have been a masters. She did not have the certification. It kind of supports your theory that you have to have a plan too though - she showed up late or not at all sometimes, talked about drunk she got on the weekends, and would show her new Coach purse to everyone in the building. She got fired.I would have killed for that opportunity ![](http://us.social.s-msn.com/s/images/emoticons/angry_smile.gif) Oh well. I'm just relieved - I thought for a minute that I missed an obvious "in" to a project management career, which is something I still want very much.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 15:51:32 GMT -5
My recruiter emailed me about an opening last year for a beginning project management spot in San Jose. Starting salary of $150k, no experience necessary. They were willing to accept resumes from people that were within one year of graduating with an IT management degree as long as they already had their PMP. I've never filled a project management slot, but I'm in a team lead position now and she thought I had a shot at the job.
How about resumes from people with degrees in business management and CAPM certificates with 60 hours of PM experience? ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 15:52:54 GMT -5
As we've been chatting about this DH ordered some PMI books. He wants to get his certification too. DH thinks it will be a lot more valuable than an MBA.
It sucks to watch people waste great opportunities.
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sil
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Post by sil on May 24, 2011 15:54:52 GMT -5
I'm glad I wasn't pushed to have a plan before entering college. If I was told at age 18 that I shouldnt go to college unless I had a career plan, I wouldn't have gone.
Nor would I have come up with some great career plan if I did not go to college. My parents would have told me to pay them rent, or find my own place. Since I had no clue what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would have just grabbed any job and if it paid enough to cover rent, food, utilities and a car payment, I probably would have stayed there for a long time until I really needed more money. Then I would have come up with a plan to get more money.
Blindly going to college worked out well for me. Frankly, my whole career has been based on following in the footsteps of the more successful people around me, and that started by following them to college. I still dont have a "plan", I just have a good eye for opportunity.
EDIT for clarity.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 24, 2011 15:55:24 GMT -5
How about resumes from people with degrees in business management and CAPM certificates with 60 hours of PM experience? ;D I don't know. It was a dot com start up and they were looking for an entry level IT project manager. I don't know whether or not they would have considered a generic business manager type. Get some techy experience under your belt though, and you should be able to do pretty damn well around here.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 16:02:34 GMT -5
I'm glad I wasn't pushed to have a plan before entering college. If I was told at age 18 that I shouldnt go to college unless I had a career plan, I wouldn't have gone.
You don't need a step-by-step career plan. You just need to pick the right degree, have a general idea of what you want to do, and an exit plan. And it's not like you can't succeed in college without those things; it's just more of a gamble.
I don't know. It was a dot com start up and they were looking for an entry level IT project manager. I don't know whether or not they would have considered a generic business manager type. Get some techy experience under your belt though, and you should be able to do pretty damn well around here.
Aye, there's the rub.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 24, 2011 17:26:45 GMT -5
"College is supposed to be this sure fire way to get out of poverty, and out of competition with the dregs of society. Now it's only a 60/40 chance. I think prospective students should be told that before they decide to take on five or six figures of debt."
I do agree with your idea that if college graduation rates are significantly increased, it won't affect the job market. There's only so many jobs to go around, and increasing the pool of college graduates won't change that.
But you seem to be under the assumption the assumption that if a college grad is working in a job that doesn't require a degree then it's a "waste" and they're either working at starbucks or McDonald's. I find this particularly confusing because you assert you don't need a degree to get a good job. Just because someone has a degree and works in a job that doesn't require it doesn't mean they're living in poverty or making minimum wage.
Going back to my own experience, a technician at the shipyard I worked at didn't require a degree, but many techs had them. This wasn't a job paying minimum wage or close to it, it's a job that paid 40-50k at full performance level, plus generous overtime. Not a bad salary for most areas of the country. You could say they were "mal employed" but it's not like they were baristas or anything. But when supvervisor, instructor, or other positions came open, the college grads had first dibs.
How can you say that people can get good jobs without degrees then turn around and say someone is underemployed if they work in a job that doesn't require a degree? You don't have a degree and have a decent job, if someone with a degree worked in your job, would they be mal employed?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 24, 2011 17:36:37 GMT -5
How can you say that people can get good jobs without degrees then turn around and say someone is underemployed if they work in a job that doesn't require a degree? You don't have a degree and have a decent job, if someone with a degree worked in your job, would they be mal employed? My position requires a master's. Just ask HR.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 24, 2011 17:38:07 GMT -5
"I've contended all along that you can't go to college without a plan and expect it to work - neither can you skip college without a plan and expect it to work. Things don't just magically work out. But if you happen to be brilliant, or gifted, or you have exceptional work experience or you're the hardest worker or the most self-disciplined person you know, and you're prepared to take the scenic route to success, I think that skipping college can be fine."
I think you're absolutely right Firebird. Most sucessful people I know who didn't prusue college still had some type of plan to gain marketable skills, or otherwise stumbled into a situation where they got marketable skills. Usually they received marketable skills from some other source (military, vocational training), were increadabily self disciplined (started their own business), or had exceptional natural talent (artists, musicians ect). But not going to college and just finishing high school and smoking pot won't get you very far.
I think the conscensus is that a college degree is a useful piece of the puzzel for many people, but it can't be the only piece, and it's not necessarily a required piece.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on May 24, 2011 17:49:02 GMT -5
Dark, I think a lot of people here are arguing other things about college, but your point about 'underemployment' is a good one. There would be considerably more underemployed people if 60% of people graduated college.
The supply of educated laborers doesn't create its own demand for jobs that require workers with a college degree.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:53:37 GMT -5
The supply of educated laborers doesn't create its own demand for jobs that require workers with a college degree.
Wouldn't it be nice if supply DID automatically create demand, though? *sigh*
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 17:55:14 GMT -5
But not going to college and just finishing high school and smoking pot won't get you very far.
You know my cousins, don't you?!
I think the conscensus is that a college degree is a useful piece of the puzzel for many people, but it can't be the only piece, and it's not necessarily a required piece.
That's certainly my opinion.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 24, 2011 17:55:45 GMT -5
Before anyone asks the rule with my own kids is that they can be anything they want to be when they grow and they can study whatever they want, as long as they graduate with at least a BS from Stanford. Oh, and as far as they know we won't be giving them a dime for college, but we'll probably make enough that they won't get much aid either, so they should really focus on keeping their grades and/or athletic abilities top notch in order to land a scholarship. Dark, I haven't read all of this thread, so I don't know if this has been pointed out but.....Stanford doesn't give academic scholarships, so they better be darn good athletes. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 24, 2011 18:03:02 GMT -5
Stanford doesn't give academic scholarships, so they better be darn good athletes. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) So far they're determined to break my heart anyway. Older one says she's going to be a chef, and the younger one says art teacher in Paris.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 24, 2011 18:05:38 GMT -5
So far they're determined to break my heart anyway. Older one says she's going to be a chef, and the younger one says art teacher in Paris.
Best of luck to her - my mom was watching House Hunters International the other day and passed along a story of a $1,000,000 studio about the same square footage as my living room. Another option: a studio half the square footage of my living room - just enough room for a bed and possibly a hot plate as long as you don't need to breathe on a regular basis. $600k.
I hope one of her students is the next Monet...
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 18:10:29 GMT -5
My alma mater's AD's son is a QB at Stanford. There was a lot of talk about him going into the draft this year. One point the sports guys kept bringing up was he didn't have to go early for financial reasons that in fact his parents would encourage him strongly to get the degree. I think his dad got his law degree during his NFL playing days. Not sure how he pulled that off but the guy's a genius.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 24, 2011 18:19:29 GMT -5
Doesn't Dark have two girls? I don't think quarterback at Stanford is an option. Gymnastics would be a better choice. Several Olympians have gone there.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 18:30:05 GMT -5
Oh who knows maybe by then it will be an option lol ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 24, 2011 19:54:12 GMT -5
Well, no wonder you're anti college then. I'd be too if those were the aspirations of my children...although, the Culinary Institute of America costs a pretty penny. It can also open up a lot of opportunities that being a line cook at TGI Fridays might not be able, since schooling isn't important.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 20:09:41 GMT -5
Oh you still have a few years before your children break your heart expat ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 24, 2011 20:47:25 GMT -5
It can also open up a lot of opportunities that being a line cook at TGI Fridays might not be able, since schooling isn't important. Eh... one of my first jobs was as a dishwasher at an Iron Skillet restuarant (the ones at Petro truck stops), and I turned out just fine. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 24, 2011 21:19:46 GMT -5
But you didn't want to be a chef. What I meant was that your daughters path to being a chef would be much easier via the CIA [the culinary one] than a line cook at cheap restaurant.
I wouldn't be disappointed if my children wanted to be an artist or chef, for example [just using Darks] but I certainly wouldn't advocate college for those careers. I would, however, possibly push a school like the CIA. My cousin went to the CIA and has done very well for himself as a chef.
I didn't mean that his children's aspirations were heartbreaking [sorry Dark, if that's the way it seemed], just that I wouldn't push college either in that situation.
If my children are not college material, I'm going to push strongly for them to gain vocational knowledge; whether being an electrician, mechanic, plumber, etc [even a chef if they have the aptitude]. Something that they can use in real life. I'd even push them to a vocation if they tried to ask me to pay for their degree in Communications or English.
Hell, I was fortunate that I made it out from under the $100k of debt I took for my college education. Not everyone is that fortunate.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 21:40:37 GMT -5
Mine's just under $20k and it doesn't seem like it will ever go away at 6.8%. Seriously need a side job or something that brings in some cash cuz this ain't working. I know I've made no progress since I lost my public accounting gig and put them in unemployment deferrment and then income based. I should really bite the bullet and ask HR about those payments. They appear to be for recruitment or retainment of highly qualified personnel (which I doubt auditors are lol) but I should ask, one payment would wipe out half my total.....
My brother's an electrician and has the license but where he's at I think not having an electrical engineering degree will hurt his chances at moving to management eventually. And tuition around here is pricey, the one class I took was $1600. Not everyone offers engineering either and many are picking about transferring.
I was just messing with you I'm assuming so long as your children grow up to be happy, self-sufficient you'll be ok with whatever career they pick.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 24, 2011 22:35:20 GMT -5
WVgurl,
If I recall, you're a federal employee. I know there's a program with the federal government where if you sign some type of agreement to work for them for so long, they'll pay off your student loans. I don't know the specifics but a couple of people have mentioned it to me. It may be something to look into or ask your supvervisor about.
I was pretty lucky. My parents picked up the lions share of my student loans. I forget how much I ended up with but something like 4-5k. I think I'm down to 1-2k. But my interest rate is really low, like 4% or something.
I don't pay much attention to my student loans. I have it set up to autopay the minimum payment plus $100 every month.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 22:57:40 GMT -5
I know they do but the information I have found so far indicates my agency only uses it for recruitment purposes or for the purposes of retaining highly qualified individuals. I'm already there and coming up on my one year anniversary and I doubt entry level auditor falls into the highly qualified. There was a report indicating which series they paid loans for and how much. Mine, auditor, was not one of them they paid for last year.
I will bite the bullet and ask HR at worst they will say no. Its a three year time period and I could get them all paid for and serve three more years. Considering I thought I was stuck for three years anyway under FCIP before that program was ended in March its not too big of a deal. I could suck it up if they footed that tab. Heck even half of it would buy a whole lotta breathing room.
Its just interesting bc when I interviewed with FBI it seemed like it was something they just did for employees, no qualifications like my agency seems to have.
I got mine after they were fixed at 6.8%, lucky me. I was paying $50-75 more than minimums at old job. Of course my rent was $250 less and I was taking home a little more per month as well. My gross is higher now but I have money going to retirement, FSA and dental insurance things I didn't have before. I also didn't have to contribute to my health or life insurance. Overall I think I am in a better place with more advancement opportunities and a bigger area for other options just a little bit of adjustment pain going to a more expensive area.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 24, 2011 23:22:06 GMT -5
"Considering I thought I was stuck for three years anyway under FCIP before that program was ended in March its not too big of a deal. I could suck it up if they footed that tab. Heck even half of it would buy a whole lotta breathing room."
Just as an aside, you don't like working for the government or your current agency? Most people I know would be estatic to have a safe government job.
Also, are you still up for being recruited by the FBI? I thought about trying to join them but I don't mee the eyesight requirements.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 24, 2011 23:31:27 GMT -5
Some days I'm just not thrilled to be in my office 24-7. Part of becoming an auditor was for variety, travel, not being in the same cube day in and day out. I'm not jazzed about this city lately, I'd rather go back to the DC burbs but that's a long brutal commute day after day. My agency does have field offices but competition for spots in those is unreal. While I wish I got more field work mixed in getting to find the trends and direct our work is kind of cool.
I didn't make it in through college recruitment and I haven't looked since I landed with my current agency last June. ATF has a series I'd love to try haven't looked to see what they have lately.
On the other hand I don't feel like I've begun to give it a fair shot. I hated my college experience and the town the first year. By the end of the second year I loved it and stayed in the area until last June when I moved here. Everyone who's started in my office recently at entry level has said it takes nearly a year to get really involved, be busy all the time, etc.
And yeah I hate my apartment (its part of why I'm so sick), the neighborhood's safe but BORING, and I'm stuck in a cube running data analysis day in and day out. That makes me want to stab my eyes out some days its so damn boring. I'll probably get over it. I know its a stable job and eventually the pay will catch up. I mean even during a theoretical furlough I'd still get 80% of my pay bc our biggest division that we audited is not funded through the discretionary stream and they are 80% of our workload/budget. Just adjustment pains I think. There's been a lot happen in my life in the past year and a lot of things I can't fix and that frustrates me greatly.
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svwashout
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Post by svwashout on May 28, 2011 20:33:57 GMT -5
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