Why don't voters like Joe Biden?

[scgal]

Sept 17, 2023 19:54:44 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 17, 2023 14:00:57 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

You fling the word "racist" about... like its the only word you know.

What could be better, or more Liberal, than an ideal of a fair society where everyone is equal and has the same opportunities?

Why in the world is that racist?

I experience racism every day of my life. Do you? I bet not since you are a white woman outside of America. Here we don't live in a fair society where everyone is equal. We also don't have equal opportunity here. Why? Because of the color of our skin. If you and I were walking on opposite sides of the street, people would cross to your side to walk on. Why? Because of what I look like. I'm treated like a criminal every day because my skin is more melanated than yours. It's a fact of life when you're a POC. You wouldn't know what that is like though.

That is a bullshit victim mindset statement. So someone don't like walking on the same street as you big deal. You were not made to cross the street they did it is their problem. Not everyone is racist thou or you wouldn't be employed, and enjoy what every other person in america does. There are racist people that is a fact. Here is another fact they are allowed to be racist that is the price we pay to live in a free society. We have laws to help stop them from using their racist views to hinder your life. That is really the best anyone can do. If your looking for a total racist free society which would be great its not going to happen stop playing the victim.

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 7:28:45 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 17, 2023 12:30:31 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Here you are. It was described as a medical condition when his cause of death was in fact a homicide.

www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/minneapolis-police-george-floyd-death/index.html

ETA: I watched the entire trial. The police chief said on the stand unequivocally that Derek Chauvin used excessive force and that his actions were not consistent with his training.

I also watched the video and was disgusted. Then with all the information provided here is my take on it.
Once a person resist arrest they are putting their life in danger. Officers are trained to non lethally detain a person which they did. Now this maybe racist cop thought it was funny putting him in pain. After his death was they system set up to change the narrative I don't think so. It also could have been a mental issue with the cop who should have been taken out of service along time ago those are the things I think need to change. 
There are approx 660000 police officers in the us I highly doubt there is even 1% racist that would not make help a systemic racist system

It was police brutality plain and simple. They said at trial that should he have actually passed a counterfeit dollar bill, that he should have gotten a written citation. Instead he's dead. For something he was never proven to have done. He died a very unfortunate and public death at the hands of an officer that should never have been on the streets.

I don't remember her title, but someone higher up than the chief said she would keep firing officers for various reasons and the unions would force her to take them back. This is why police reform is needed. He never should have been arrested or had a gun drawn on him. Why couldn't the officer have walked over to his car and tapped on the window and said "excuse me sir, I need to talk to you?" Instead he drew his gun and screamed for him to get out of the fucking car. POC have a very different relationship with the police than white people do. He was scared and he shouldn't have had to be. He should be alive today and he's not because of a bad police officer.

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 7:32:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 17, 2023 12:27:49 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

No, you've made some pretty racist statements. We need immigrants. They are in fact human even if you think differently. They're the same as you or me and deserve to be treated humanely. You're ancestors were allowed to immigrate here, why can't they? Let's make citizenship more attainable for whoever wants to be one.

Your wrong noone needs anyone else per se. Yes they are human you never herd me say deprive them of food, water. What you did here me say is make is tougher to get in here we shouldn't just let anyone walk on in the process should be detailed with a very strict probabionary period. 

We do need them whether you like it or not. Without them we either wouldn't have a lot of things or they would cost a ton more than what they do now. Americans are all about convenience and low pricing, myself included. If that means that immigrants do the dirty work, I say let them. I'm not going to do back breaking work for pennies when I can make a very good living sitting on my ass inside my house.

And while you may not have said deprive them of food and water, you did suggest rounding them up and shooting them. How is that any better. Also, why should they not be allowed to become a citizen? You never answered the question. This could belonged to them before the white people came and stole it. If anything, we ought to be deporting white people back to their ancestors countries and giving this one back to the indigenous people.

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 7:41:36 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 17, 2023 19:54:44 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I experience racism every day of my life. Do you? I bet not since you are a white woman outside of America. Here we don't live in a fair society where everyone is equal. We also don't have equal opportunity here. Why? Because of the color of our skin. If you and I were walking on opposite sides of the street, people would cross to your side to walk on. Why? Because of what I look like. I'm treated like a criminal every day because my skin is more melanated than yours. It's a fact of life when you're a POC. You wouldn't know what that is like though.

That is a bullshit victim mindset statement. So someone don't like walking on the same street as you big deal. You were not made to cross the street they did it is their problem. Not everyone is racist thou or you wouldn't be employed, and enjoy what every other person in america does. There are racist people that is a fact. Here is another fact they are allowed to be racist that is the price we pay to live in a free society. We have laws to help stop them from using their racist views to hinder your life. That is really the best anyone can do. If your looking for a total racist free society which would be great its not going to happen stop playing the victim.

Says the white woman who doesn't walk around in brown or black skin. Not once did I say that everyone is racist. I know lots of people including a lot on this board who aren't. I also know plenty of people including some on this board who are. It's a fact of life. White privilege will always exist regardless of what any of us do about it. I don't really think I'll see a racist free society in my lifetime. I really hope my children do.

I also don't see how stating facts makes me a victim. I'm just speaking about what I have seen and experienced. Especially when the police are involved. I come from a cop family, I've seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. I also live in a pretty rough area, so I see police interact with people all the time good and bad.

I'm also a professional working in the corporate world who has been discriminated against and has also not. I've had to fight way harder than any white man for what I have both because I'm POC and because I'm a woman. I don't get the same privileges white people do and I never will. All that to say, until you've walked in my shoes, you have absolutely no idea how privileged you truly are.

[andi9899]

I know some people have said that they get tired of talking about racism and immigration, but it's a hill I am willing to die one. I'll be an activist for as long as I can.

[moon/Laura]

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


"I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like"

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Reading this thread makes me understand why our new Afghani neighbors and Cuban neighbors are thrilled that we are so welcoming.  It made me sad when they said that to us.      I mean I am glad they like us but it shouldn't come as a surprise, it should be a given.

It also made me sad talking to Indian coworkers back in 2019 who found themselves harassed and their passports being heavily analyzed coming back to America because people are too stupid to realize India was not one of the "shit hole" countries Trump was talking about.  Not that it is okay to call t he other countries "shit holes" either that more a comment towards a certain poster who insisted she would be "able to easily tell" who was from said countries.  Apparently there are a butt ton of people exactly like her who solely equated that with having brown skin and "funny" accent.

They were really worried about being detained simply because they were brown.  But part of their Visa requirements were to return home for X amount of time every year.  I sympathize but understand I cannot truly fathom the stress they were under.

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 9:18:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Reading this thread makes me understand why our new Afghani neighbors and Cuban neighbors are thrilled that we are so welcoming.  It made me sad when they said that to us.      I mean I am glad they like us but it shouldn't come as a surprise, it should be a given.

It also made me sad talking to Indian coworkers back in 2019 who found themselves harassed and their passports being heavily analyzed coming back to America because people are too stupid to realize India was not one of the "shit hole" countries Trump was talking about.  Not that it is okay to call t he other countries "shit holes" either that more a comment towards a certain poster who insisted she would be "able to easily tell" who was from said countries.  Apparently there are a butt ton of people exactly like her who solely equated that with having brown skin and "funny" accent.

They were really worried about being detained simply because they were brown.  But part of their Visa requirements were to return home for X amount of time every year.  I sympathize but understand I cannot truly fathom the stress they were under.

Hell, I was born in this country and I wasn't going to leave the country during the Trump presidency. I know a lot of other people that weren't leaving the country either because they were afraid they might not be able to get back home.

I also wish I had a nickel for every time a white person tried to guess my ethnicity. Or for every time I am asked where I'm from. I say KC and they say "yeah, but where are you really from?" I really want to say "I was born in Kansas City, bitch!" Maybe I should and some of that crap would stop. Then there are all the times white people ask me if I speak English. Can't you just say hello and see what kind of response you get?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 20, 2023 9:41:56 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 20, 2023 9:18:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Reading this thread makes me understand why our new Afghani neighbors and Cuban neighbors are thrilled that we are so welcoming.  It made me sad when they said that to us.      I mean I am glad they like us but it shouldn't come as a surprise, it should be a given.

It also made me sad talking to Indian coworkers back in 2019 who found themselves harassed and their passports being heavily analyzed coming back to America because people are too stupid to realize India was not one of the "shit hole" countries Trump was talking about.  Not that it is okay to call t he other countries "shit holes" either that more a comment towards a certain poster who insisted she would be "able to easily tell" who was from said countries.  Apparently there are a butt ton of people exactly like her who solely equated that with having brown skin and "funny" accent.

They were really worried about being detained simply because they were brown.  But part of their Visa requirements were to return home for X amount of time every year.  I sympathize but understand I cannot truly fathom the stress they were under.

Hell, I was born in this country and I wasn't going to leave the country during the Trump presidency. I know a lot of other people that weren't leaving the country either because they were afraid they might not be able to get back home.

I also wish I had a nickel for every time a white person tried to guess my ethnicity. Or for every time I am asked where I'm from. I say KC and they say "yeah, but where are you really from?" I really want to say "I was born in Kansas City, bitch!" Maybe I should and some of that crap would stop. Then there are all the times white people ask me if I speak English. Can't you just say hello and see what kind of response you get?

You should reply "No I don't speak English why do you ask?" and wait to see if their synapses start firing. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!

I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

Thank you for posting the bolded. It describes me as well. One thing I wonder about, hopefully without getting into the whole exacting definition thing again, is how people who are colorblind avoid or minimize microaggresions. Or is it that they have completely kept all such out of their language and behavior? If it is the second, that is an amazing accomplishment for anyone raised in our national culture.

[moon/Laura]

I don't believe it's possible to remove every trace of racism from your actions or words. And that's because we, as white, don't have the same life experiences that POC do. It's not possible for us to know all the ways in which we might inadvertently say/be racist. I'm sure there are degrees of offensiveness, as well.

[swamp]

Sept 20, 2023 7:41:36 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 17, 2023 19:54:44 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

I experience racism every day of my life. Do you? I bet not since you are a white woman outside of America. Here we don't live in a fair society where everyone is equal. We also don't have equal opportunity here. Why? Because of the color of our skin. If you and I were walking on opposite sides of the street, people would cross to your side to walk on. Why? Because of what I look like. I'm treated like a criminal every day because my skin is more melanated than yours. It's a fact of life when you're a POC. You wouldn't know what that is like though.

That is a bullshit victim mindset statement. So someone don't like walking on the same street as you big deal. You were not made to cross the street they did it is their problem. Not everyone is racist thou or you wouldn't be employed, and enjoy what every other person in america does. There are racist people that is a fact. Here is another fact they are allowed to be racist that is the price we pay to live in a free society. We have laws to help stop them from using their racist views to hinder your life. That is really the best anyone can do. If your looking for a total racist free society which would be great its not going to happen stop playing the victim.

I can't imagine the hubris of a white person telling a POC they are a victim for telling us about when they were subjected to racism. 

I have learned so much from certain Posters of Color (namely The Hatian, Pink, MoneyJenny, and Andi) talking about their experiences of racism. 

We would all be wise to live by the advice given to Alexander Hamilton:  Talk Less, Listen More. 

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 12:07:40 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

Thank you for posting the bolded. It describes me as well. One thing I wonder about, hopefully without getting into the whole exacting definition thing again, is how people who are colorblind avoid or minimize microaggresions. Or is it that they have completely kept all such out of their language and behavior? If it is the second, that is an amazing accomplishment for anyone raised in our national culture.

Unless you literally cannot see color, stop referring to yourself as color blind. Take time to learn from POC. Actually listen and by all means ask questions. You can't possibly know unless you ask. Don't ask brown or Asian people if they speak English. Don't ask black people about their hair or if you can touch it. Read or Google as much as possible on whatever subject you want to know about. If you have a friend of that ethnicity, ask them to explain why the microaggression is one in a sincere way and really listen and ask clarifying questions. This is for the general "you". I'm sure others will fill in where I'm lacking.

[Pink Cashmere]

Sept 20, 2023 14:22:32 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 20, 2023 12:07:40 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Thank you for posting the bolded. It describes me as well. One thing I wonder about, hopefully without getting into the whole exacting definition thing again, is how people who are colorblind avoid or minimize microaggresions. Or is it that they have completely kept all such out of their language and behavior? If it is the second, that is an amazing accomplishment for anyone raised in our national culture.

Unless you literally cannot see color, stop referring to yourself as color blind. Take time to learn from POC. Actually listen and by all means ask questions. You can't possibly know unless you ask. Don't ask brown or Asian people if they speak English. Don't ask black people about their hair or if you can touch it. Read or Google as much as possible on whatever subject you want to know about. If you have a friend of that ethnicity, ask them to explain why the microaggression is one in a sincere way and really listen and ask clarifying questions. This is for the general "you". I'm sure others will fill in where I'm lacking.

I apologize, but I giggled when I read that. That is a very big deal for a lot of ladies in some natural hair groups I’m in on FB. I have had some white people, women and flirty young men, tell me they like my hair. But so far, the only people that have asked if they could touch my hair, have been black women with relaxed hair. I do let them touch it, and sometimes I will pull a curl, to show them that my hair is much longer than it appears to be, because they must be at least a little interested in natural hair to even ask, and my hope is that by engaging and allowing them to touch my hair, when they realize it’s much softer than it might look, it might help them see that it’s okay for them to stop relaxing their hair one day too, if they want to. 

I’m not sure how I would react if a white person asked to touch my hair. If it was somebody I know, it would depend on the vibe I get from them. A stranger, I would probably be looking crazy while I said no, unless they gave me a reasonable explanation about why they asked, like they have a mixed race child or adopted a black child and they are trying to learn how to manage their child’s hair. I would most definitely talk about my hair and let them touch it if that was why they were asking.

Anyway, just something light hearted, amongst the more serious topics being discussed.

And andi9899 I appreciate you continuing to speak up about racism. I did it for a long time, until I got tired of arguing and defending myself about it and said F it. I am, however still willing to engage in honest conversations about it, with people that are willing to actually hear me and think about what I share about my experiences and my thoughts on racism, even if we end up respectfully disagreeing on some things about perspective. I can not respectfully disagree with anyone that denies facts though, or anyone that tries to minimize my negative experiences as a black woman in this country, and tries to justify the things that have happened to me and people that look like me, and you, and people that look like you, as if those things happened for some reason besides just the color of our skin.

Keep fighting the good fight!

[andi9899]

Sept 20, 2023 16:34:46 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Sept 20, 2023 14:22:32 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Unless you literally cannot see color, stop referring to yourself as color blind. Take time to learn from POC. Actually listen and by all means ask questions. You can't possibly know unless you ask. Don't ask brown or Asian people if they speak English. Don't ask black people about their hair or if you can touch it. Read or Google as much as possible on whatever subject you want to know about. If you have a friend of that ethnicity, ask them to explain why the microaggression is one in a sincere way and really listen and ask clarifying questions. This is for the general "you". I'm sure others will fill in where I'm lacking.

I apologize, but I giggled when I read that. That is a very big deal for a lot of ladies in some natural hair groups I’m in on FB. I have had some white people, women and flirty young men, tell me they like my hair. But so far, the only people that have asked if they could touch my hair, have been black women with relaxed hair. I do let them touch it, and sometimes I will pull a curl, to show them that my hair is much longer than it appears to be, because they must be at least a little interested in natural hair to even ask, and my hope is that by engaging and allowing them to touch my hair, when they realize it’s much softer than it might look, it might help them see that it’s okay for them to stop relaxing their hair one day too, if they want to. 

I’m not sure how I would react if a white person asked to touch my hair. If it was somebody I know, it would depend on the vibe I get from them. A stranger, I would probably be looking crazy while I said no, unless they gave me a reasonable explanation about why they asked, like they have a mixed race child or adopted a black child and they are trying to learn how to manage their child’s hair. I would most definitely talk about my hair and let them touch it if that was why they were asking.

Anyway, just something light hearted, amongst the more serious topics being discussed.

And andi9899 I appreciate you continuing to speak up about racism. I did it for a long time, until I got tired of arguing and defending myself about it and said F it. I am, however still willing to engage in honest conversations about it, with people that are willing to actually hear me and think about what I share about my experiences and my thoughts on racism, even if we end up respectfully disagreeing on some things about perspective. I can not respectfully disagree with anyone that denies facts though, or anyone that tries to minimize my negative experiences as a black woman in this country, and tries to justify the things that have happened to me and people that look like me, and you, and people that look like you, as if those things happened for some reason besides just the color of our skin.

Keep fighting the good fight!

I don't even have the same hair and I've had people tell me that they like it and put their hands in it. Why are you touching me?!

White people are really curious about black hair for some reason. There was even a white girl on tik tok that got box braids for clicks. Black people were telling her that not only was it cultural appropriation, but that the braids were not for her hair type and she was going to ruin her hair. She instead started a beef with a black creator and tripled down. When she took the braids out her hair was so matted she had to cut most of it off. It was fabulous to see karma come for her.

I will always speak out about racism. I welcome respectful conversation because at least one of us is going to learn something. I'm also highly confrontational and will defend my fellow POC until the end.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 20, 2023 12:29:07 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

I don't believe it's possible to remove every trace of racism from your actions or words. And that's because we, as white, don't have the same life experiences that POC do. It's not possible for us to know all the ways in which we might inadvertently say/be racist. I'm sure there are degrees of offensiveness, as well.

and let's be clear- POC TOLERATE the above, because they understand that white people don't have the same experiences as they do, so long as it doesn't hurt their opportunities in life.  but what that requires is two things- federal law which prevents it, and an awareness on the part of white folks that this is a problem.  the GOP is trying to dismantle both.

[scgal]

Sept 20, 2023 8:22:12 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 20, 2023 7:32:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

Your wrong noone needs anyone else per se. Yes they are human you never herd me say deprive them of food, water. What you did here me say is make is tougher to get in here we shouldn't just let anyone walk on in the process should be detailed with a very strict probabionary period. 

We do need them whether you like it or not. Without them we either wouldn't have a lot of things or they would cost a ton more than what they do now. Americans are all about convenience and low pricing, myself included. If that means that immigrants do the dirty work, I say let them. I'm not going to do back breaking work for pennies when I can make a very good living sitting on my ass inside my house.

And while you may not have said deprive them of food and water, you did suggest rounding them up and shooting them. How is that any better. Also, why should they not be allowed to become a citizen? You never answered the question. This could belonged to them before the white people came and stole it. If anything, we ought to be deporting white people back to their ancestors countries and giving this one back to the indigenous people.

And you call me racist...holy shit. 

[scgal]

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


"I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like"

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

I didn't justify his murder and Chauvin got what he deserved. What I'm saying is white, black, brown I don't care people need to understand when a police officer ask you to do something you do it, once you resist you are risking your own life. Personally I'm ok as long as there is camera footage to back up the officer story that once someone resist arrest the officer is allowed to use deadly force. If there is no camera footage the officer can face the same fate.  

[scgal]

Sept 20, 2023 8:32:36 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 20, 2023 7:41:36 GMT -5 scgal said:

That is a bullshit victim mindset statement. So someone don't like walking on the same street as you big deal. You were not made to cross the street they did it is their problem. Not everyone is racist thou or you wouldn't be employed, and enjoy what every other person in america does. There are racist people that is a fact. Here is another fact they are allowed to be racist that is the price we pay to live in a free society. We have laws to help stop them from using their racist views to hinder your life. That is really the best anyone can do. If your looking for a total racist free society which would be great its not going to happen stop playing the victim.

Says the white woman who doesn't walk around in brown or black skin. Not once did I say that everyone is racist. I know lots of people including a lot on this board who aren't. I also know plenty of people including some on this board who are. It's a fact of life. White privilege will always exist regardless of what any of us do about it. I don't really think I'll see a racist free society in my lifetime. I really hope my children do.

I also don't see how stating facts makes me a victim. I'm just speaking about what I have seen and experienced. Especially when the police are involved. I come from a cop family, I've seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. I also live in a pretty rough area, so I see police interact with people all the time good and bad.

I'm also a professional working in the corporate world who has been discriminated against and has also not. I've had to fight way harder than any white man for what I have both because I'm POC and because I'm a woman. I don't get the same privileges white people do and I never will. All that to say, until you've walked in my shoes, you have absolutely no idea how privileged you truly are.

Stating facts and sharing experiences is important. That no way means we have a systemic racist society and that is what i'm talking about. There are racist people I don't care what you or any others say here i'm not a racist person. As I stated before living in a free society racism is something EVERYONE will have to put up with.

[andi9899]

Sept 21, 2023 7:42:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:22:12 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

We do need them whether you like it or not. Without them we either wouldn't have a lot of things or they would cost a ton more than what they do now. Americans are all about convenience and low pricing, myself included. If that means that immigrants do the dirty work, I say let them. I'm not going to do back breaking work for pennies when I can make a very good living sitting on my ass inside my house.

And while you may not have said deprive them of food and water, you did suggest rounding them up and shooting them. How is that any better. Also, why should they not be allowed to become a citizen? You never answered the question. This could belonged to them before the white people came and stole it. If anything, we ought to be deporting white people back to their ancestors countries and giving this one back to the indigenous people.

And you call me racist...holy shit. 

How is that racist? Let immigrants do the work Americans won't? Plenty of people do low paying jobs while others make more money working less strenuous jobs. You're grasping at straws at this point to try to avoid being proven wrong. YOU'RE WRONG! Just accept it and move on.

[andi9899]

Sept 21, 2023 7:49:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


"I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like"

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

I didn't justify his murder and Chauvin got what he deserved. What I'm saying is white, black, brown I don't care people need to understand when a police officer ask you to do something you do it, once you resist you are risking your own life. Personally I'm ok as long as there is camera footage to back up the officer story that once someone resist arrest the officer is allowed to use deadly force. If there is no camera footage the officer can face the same fate.  

You're missing the entire point. He never should have been placed under arrest or detained. He should have been approached in a decent manner and asked questions. I've watched that video more times than I'd like because I followed that trial live in its entirety. The officer didn't treat him like a human being from the jump. He treated him like a criminal which he was not proven to be. The chief of police said had George Floyd actually passed counterfeit bills, the appropriate punishment would have been a written citation and a fine. Instead he's dead. Get a clue.

[andi9899]

Sept 21, 2023 7:54:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:32:36 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Says the white woman who doesn't walk around in brown or black skin. Not once did I say that everyone is racist. I know lots of people including a lot on this board who aren't. I also know plenty of people including some on this board who are. It's a fact of life. White privilege will always exist regardless of what any of us do about it. I don't really think I'll see a racist free society in my lifetime. I really hope my children do.

I also don't see how stating facts makes me a victim. I'm just speaking about what I have seen and experienced. Especially when the police are involved. I come from a cop family, I've seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. I also live in a pretty rough area, so I see police interact with people all the time good and bad.

I'm also a professional working in the corporate world who has been discriminated against and has also not. I've had to fight way harder than any white man for what I have both because I'm POC and because I'm a woman. I don't get the same privileges white people do and I never will. All that to say, until you've walked in my shoes, you have absolutely no idea how privileged you truly are.

Stating facts and sharing experiences is important. That no way means we have a systemic racist society and that is what i'm talking about. There are racist people I don't care what you or any others say here i'm not a racist person. As I stated before living in a free society racism is something EVERYONE will have to put up with.

Is this opposite day or something? Are we all getting punked? That is exactly what it means! This entire country and the way it operates is based on racism. The electoral college is rooted in racism because it was created to accommodate states that were predominantly black because at the time black people weren't considered a whole person.

When slavery was finally abolished they slipped in a clause that allowed it for black people who had committed a crime. The jail system went from 95% white to 95% black basically overnight because they decided that loitering or being a vagrant was a crime so they could arrest all the newly freed black people wandering around looking for work since they were now free from the plantations that owned them. They were then leased back to the plantations they were freed from.

The fact that you are honestly trying to deny the racism that runs our country every day is appalling at best.

[moon/Laura]

Sept 21, 2023 7:49:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


"I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like"

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

I didn't justify his murder and Chauvin got what he deserved. What I'm saying is white, black, brown I don't care people need to understand when a police officer ask you to do something you do it, once you resist you are risking your own life. Personally I'm ok as long as there is camera footage to back up the officer story that once someone resist arrest the officer is allowed to use deadly force. If there is no camera footage the officer can face the same fate.  

More fucking bullshit. Floyd was pinned on the ground, zero threat to *anyone*. He was already handcuffed! Whether he was moving around is 100% irrelevant in this case because there was nothing he could do that would necessitate deadly force. He was probably struggling because HE COULDN'T FUCKING BREATHE! You saying that 'resisting = right to deadly force' IS justifying Floyd's murder.

And, I'll add, the idea that resisting means an officer should be allowed to use deadly force in any situation s/he deems appropriate is absolutely fucking nuts. I can somewhat see if the officer is concerned that there is a weapon that can be used against them but you're all about it no matter what. For a 'pro-lifer' you're awfully pro-violence. Oh wait. You don't actually care once those babies are born. You just want them born, regardless of circumstances. It's disgusting.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 21, 2023 7:49:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 20, 2023 8:43:17 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Wow, scgal . I just have no words right now. No nice ones, anyway. I mean, how fucking DARE you, trying to justify George Floyd's *murder*!


"I dated black men, I encouraged my daughters to date whomever they want color or nationality. I have an Indian grandchild whom I love dearly. I can honestly day i'm color blind when I see people. I think people need to stop using the race card every time they hear something they don't like"

This right here is a steaming pile of bullshit! You are indeed racist. I'm racist too. Not intentionally, but, unfortunately being white means there are times that what I say or do is racist despite my best intentions.

Are there times people pull out the race card simply when something doesn't go their way? Of course. But Derek Chauvin's actions were 100% violent and unnecessary. No ifs, ands or buts.

Then to tell andi to stop playing victim because she notices that some people - probably a lot of people, even - will purposefully avoid her because of the color of her skin is just... wow. Or that people can't be racist because she has a job? Newsflash - that doesn't mean that her employer can't still be racist. You are just so ridiculously clueless that I'm flabbergasted.

I didn't justify his murder and Chauvin got what he deserved. What I'm saying is white, black, brown I don't care people need to understand when a police officer ask you to do something you do it, once you resist you are risking your own life. Personally I'm ok as long as there is camera footage to back up the officer story that once someone resist arrest the officer is allowed to use deadly force. If there is no camera footage the officer can face the same fate.  

And when they do not resist?  I have watched this in action, and unless you have seen a white officer come at a POC who has done nothing wrong but get lost, don’t feed me the BS that it doesn’t happen.  I hav3 watched it with my own eyes.  I have also watched that same officer do a 180° change when he suddenly realized that there were 2 adult white women in the car watching him.  There is absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that things would have been much worse for my friend without witnesses.  

My POC friend told me that this happens all.the.time to him, especially if he is driving at night.  Thinking back about this, I always picked him up when we went someplace with a group at night.  He did live near me, but it was safer for him being a passenger in my car and me dropping him off at midnight than him driving himself.  It should not be like this, ever.  But it is.

This was back in the mid 1990s.  Overt racism has never gone away, but it’s just been more obscured.  Unfortunately, our previous President made it ok to be openly racist, everywhere.  

[NastyWoman]

Sept 20, 2023 7:32:54 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 17, 2023 12:27:49 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

No, you've made some pretty racist statements. We need immigrants. They are in fact human even if you think differently. They're the same as you or me and deserve to be treated humanely. You're ancestors were allowed to immigrate here, why can't they? Let's make citizenship more attainable for whoever wants to be one.

Your wrong noone needs anyone else per se. Yes they are human you never herd me say deprive them of food, water. What you did here me say is make is tougher to get in here we shouldn't just let anyone walk on in the process should be detailed with a very strict probabionary period. 

Of course you haven't. Why would you?   You advocate shooting "illegals" on sight. Dead people don't need food and/or water.

[scgal]

Sept 21, 2023 9:19:41 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Sept 21, 2023 7:49:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

I didn't justify his murder and Chauvin got what he deserved. What I'm saying is white, black, brown I don't care people need to understand when a police officer ask you to do something you do it, once you resist you are risking your own life. Personally I'm ok as long as there is camera footage to back up the officer story that once someone resist arrest the officer is allowed to use deadly force. If there is no camera footage the officer can face the same fate.  

More fucking bullshit. Floyd was pinned on the ground, zero threat to *anyone*. He was already handcuffed! Whether he was moving around is 100% irrelevant in this case because there was nothing he could do that would necessitate deadly force. He was probably struggling because HE COULDN'T FUCKING BREATHE! You saying that 'resisting = right to deadly force' IS justifying Floyd's murder.

And, I'll add, the idea that resisting means an officer should be allowed to use deadly force in any situation s/he deems appropriate is absolutely fucking nuts. I can somewhat see if the officer is concerned that there is a weapon that can be used against them but you're all about it no matter what. For a 'pro-lifer' you're awfully pro-violence. Oh wait. You don't actually care once those babies are born. You just want them born, regardless of circumstances. It's disgusting.

Did you even read the first part where I said Chauvin got what he deserved. I am not say Floyd death is justifiable. I said if a person resist arrest in my opinion if an officer uses deadly force then oh well. That is not the law as we have it. Chauvin broke the law a man is dead and he is paying the penalty under the law. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 21, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 21, 2023 9:19:41 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

More fucking bullshit. Floyd was pinned on the ground, zero threat to *anyone*. He was already handcuffed! Whether he was moving around is 100% irrelevant in this case because there was nothing he could do that would necessitate deadly force. He was probably struggling because HE COULDN'T FUCKING BREATHE! You saying that 'resisting = right to deadly force' IS justifying Floyd's murder.

And, I'll add, the idea that resisting means an officer should be allowed to use deadly force in any situation s/he deems appropriate is absolutely fucking nuts. I can somewhat see if the officer is concerned that there is a weapon that can be used against them but you're all about it no matter what. For a 'pro-lifer' you're awfully pro-violence. Oh wait. You don't actually care once those babies are born. You just want them born, regardless of circumstances. It's disgusting.

Did you even read the first part where I said Chauvin got what he deserved. I am not say Floyd death is justifiable. I said if a person resist arrest in my opinion if an officer uses deadly force then oh well. That is not the law as we have it. Chauvin broke the law a man is dead and he is paying the penalty under the law. 

I think that police officers need to have command of enough different tools to get their job done without the use of deadly force. In this imperfect world it isn’t 100 percent achievable, but it could be closer.

[chiver78]

Sept 21, 2023 14:41:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 21, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Did you even read the first part where I said Chauvin got what he deserved. I am not say Floyd death is justifiable. I said if a person resist arrest in my opinion if an officer uses deadly force then oh well. That is not the law as we have it. Chauvin broke the law a man is dead and he is paying the penalty under the law. 

I think that police officers need to have command of enough different tools to get their job done without the use of deadly force. In this imperfect world it isn’t 100 percent achievable, but it could be closer.

yes, for sure. and in this case, any of those tools could have been used other than how the officers started the encounter. of course Chauvin got what he deserved for killing another human being over a potential counterfeit dollar. but why do we (as a society) not acknowledge the environment in which this murderer grew up in life and career, where he thought this was acceptable in the first place? *that* is systemic racism. 

[andi9899]

Sept 21, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 21, 2023 9:19:41 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

More fucking bullshit. Floyd was pinned on the ground, zero threat to *anyone*. He was already handcuffed! Whether he was moving around is 100% irrelevant in this case because there was nothing he could do that would necessitate deadly force. He was probably struggling because HE COULDN'T FUCKING BREATHE! You saying that 'resisting = right to deadly force' IS justifying Floyd's murder.

And, I'll add, the idea that resisting means an officer should be allowed to use deadly force in any situation s/he deems appropriate is absolutely fucking nuts. I can somewhat see if the officer is concerned that there is a weapon that can be used against them but you're all about it no matter what. For a 'pro-lifer' you're awfully pro-violence. Oh wait. You don't actually care once those babies are born. You just want them born, regardless of circumstances. It's disgusting.

Did you even read the first part where I said Chauvin got what he deserved. I am not say Floyd death is justifiable. I said if a person resist arrest in my opinion if an officer uses deadly force then oh well. That is not the law as we have it. Chauvin broke the law a man is dead and he is paying the penalty under the law. 

Again. HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED OR DETAINED!

[scgal]

Sept 21, 2023 15:07:35 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Sept 21, 2023 14:23:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Did you even read the first part where I said Chauvin got what he deserved. I am not say Floyd death is justifiable. I said if a person resist arrest in my opinion if an officer uses deadly force then oh well. That is not the law as we have it. Chauvin broke the law a man is dead and he is paying the penalty under the law. 

Again. HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED OR DETAINED!

He absolutely should have been detained. Then once he was uncooperative he should have been arrested. Should he have been killed NO.