andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 19, 2020 17:37:10 GMT -5
YES! YES! YES! Thank you so much for explaining that so clearly. It gets damn frustrating that so often in these conversations, some white person tries to make it about them and their struggles, not just here, almost everywhere. It feels dismissive. And they rarely seem to understand why they get the reactions they do. This white person is not trying to make it about me. This white person is trying to explain that racism is a system and if you don't understand what is keeping it place now, you aren't going to fix it. Ummm... You've been trying to make it about you since you started posting on this subject. Sit down, Karen.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 19, 2020 17:41:22 GMT -5
YES! YES! YES! Thank you so much for explaining that so clearly. It gets damn frustrating that so often in these conversations, some white person tries to make it about them and their struggles, not just here, almost everywhere. It feels dismissive. And they rarely seem to understand why they get the reactions they do. This white person is not trying to make it about me. This white person is trying to explain that racism is a system and if you don't understand what is keeping it place now, you aren't going to fix it. Um Pink is African American....so I'm pretty sure she gets it more than you do. Which circles back to my point.
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moon/Laura
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Karens
Jun 19, 2020 17:42:48 GMT -5
Post by moon/Laura on Jun 19, 2020 17:42:48 GMT -5
That sounds like a theme for a calendar, lol
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2020 18:01:42 GMT -5
Just found this. Just. Wow. The 'Karens' are probably already in line at the Bank of Oklahoma Center for tomorrow's rally. ETA: And get a hero's welcome to boot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 18:19:28 GMT -5
YES! YES! YES! Thank you so much for explaining that so clearly. It gets damn frustrating that so often in these conversations, some white person tries to make it about them and their struggles, not just here, almost everywhere. It feels dismissive. And they rarely seem to understand why they get the reactions they do. This white person is not trying to make it about me. This white person is trying to explain that racism is a system and if you don't understand what is keeping it place now, you aren't going to fix it. When I typed that, I considered writing that my post was really in general and not specifically for you, only because I felt like you’d already caught enough heat in this thread. But since you quoted me, I’ll go ahead and say you kind of did try to make it about you when you posted about the ways you feel you’ve been discriminated against. Your concerns may be valid, I won’t dispute that, but we weren’t talking about discrimination against women or white women. Posts like yours are often how the conversations get turned away from the original subject, racism against people of color. Can you understand how posts or comments like yours during these conversations can feel like attempts to deflect from the issue at hand? And how they can feel dismissive? And no, I do NOT understand what is keeping racism in place, besides warped thinking by the people who are racists. Nor do I believe that Black people, Mexicans, or any other race or ethnicity can fix it, only white people can fix this in the US. Just my opinion.
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 19, 2020 18:35:46 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 19, 2020 18:35:46 GMT -5
And if I claimed anywhere in my post my experience was the same as theirs, I would agree with you. But I didn't. My life is not your lives. If we really are to build a better society we have to look at all of it. Not just fixate on the current social media obsession. Racism exists everywhere and its a mindset not a skin color. Its disappointing my experience cannot be seen as just another data point versus being unworthy of even being shared. And no I don't fully understand, but I've had to watch myself and POC fight similar battles. Yeah, we must have misunderstood the part of your post where you said you were profiled like POC are. This is not a social media obsession, it is what POC have had to deal with for years and is now brought to light more often since we all now have cell phones with cameras that those years ago didn't have. Also, nobody said that your experiences were unworthy of being shared, just that you can't empathize with something you've never experienced. You really don't get it, do you? Actually the social media obsession I was referencing was the desire to call bigoted white women Karen. Given that you are picking my posts apart and making assumptions I did not make, you seem to be saying without saying that my experiences are worthless and should not be considered at all. I was not talking about my entire life, but my work life when I referenced those battles. I can't understand what I have never experienced? Is that the bottom line and my takeaway for this thread?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 19, 2020 18:53:47 GMT -5
I can't understand what I have never experienced? Is that the bottom line and my takeaway for this thread? You/we cannot understand the type and extent of the racism that blacks experience daily, no. You/we may experience something *similar*, but not the same. It will never be the same.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jun 19, 2020 19:47:15 GMT -5
He didn't deserve to be treated that way, however the BMW 7 series is not just a luxury car. Its the top of the line and usually considered an executive car. Its not that common, especially in recent years, with yearly sales in 2005 under 24,000 cars. Current model price range is roughly $86K to $156K. Its uncommon to see 7 series driven by anyone in their 20s. How many white guys driving BMW 7's have been pulled over? I'm guessing few to none, they just assume it's Daddy's car.
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 19, 2020 20:29:24 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 19, 2020 20:29:24 GMT -5
Well, I'd be suspicious if I saw this guy
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 19, 2020 20:30:59 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 19, 2020 20:30:59 GMT -5
This woman as just a couple examples
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2020 20:39:18 GMT -5
He didn't deserve to be treated that way, however the BMW 7 series is not just a luxury car. Its the top of the line and usually considered an executive car. Its not that common, especially in recent years, with yearly sales in 2005 under 24,000 cars. Current model price range is roughly $86K to $156K. Its uncommon to see 7 series driven by anyone in their 20s. How many white guys driving BMW 7's have been pulled over? I'm guessing few to none, they just assume it's Daddy's car. One of the supervisors at my job, a white man, has a child that is mixed, he has a black mother. This supervisor has told me himself that his family (who happen to be wealthy) is racist and have little to do with his oldest son, because his Mom is Black. They tolerate the children he has with his wife, who is of Asian descent, I’m not sure exactly where though. This supervisor is definitely attracted to Black women, and I think part of the reason is because they are “taboo”, but other people think it’s because a Black woman actually raised him, the hired help that tended to him because his parents were busy, or whatever the reason was. Apparently his Dad disowned him after his oldest son was born, because his Mom is black. His Aunt died a couple years ago, and she left him her fortune, and according to him, his “pockets are fat”, which I believe. He’d talked to me about this Aunt before she died. Anyway, he told me a few years ago that his son’s Mom had bought him a BMW, he was about 16yo at the time. A couple weeks ago, Idk how it started but he was talking with a couple of Black coworkers about recent events I guess. And they were trying to tell him that he should try to understand the plight of Black men in America because he has a Black son. We all know that mixed children are considered Black if either of their parents is Black, right? And he told a story about the time his son was pulled over in his BMW in a suburb that’s known to not be friendly to Black people. He said he and his son’s mother showed up on the scene and they let his son go, when they were going to arrest him before. My coworkers tried to explain to him that it was because HE showed up, he said “his Mom was there too”. I was just listening and not a part of the conversation, but I absolutely agreed when my coworkers told him that the son’s mother didn’t really matter, it was the fact that his white Dad showed up that made a difference. People can think what they want, but I believe that what my coworkers said was true. I don’t think that my brown self showing up will make any police officer change their mind and be lenient with my child. This supervisor’s neck was beet red by the time he just walked away. But if he loves his oldest son, I think he’d be wise to listen to the truth about how *some* people see his son. I mean, if his own family doesn’t accept him, what does he think racists that aren’t related to him see his son? He presents himself as friendly to minorities, but I believe he still bears watching. I’m not even sure that his attraction to Black women is a pure preference. My honest opinion is that he has issues too. I know that some officers have good sense and are reasonable. My DD got pulled over in Mississippi in my car and he was nice. But so many of them are assholes and/or racist, and Mississippi is notorious for bullshit against Black people..... and you just never know what you’re dealing with when you have to deal with them.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 19, 2020 20:49:10 GMT -5
Profiling is wrong regardless but again you can't throw up pictures of white people and say "See these people would be pulled over too therefore your experiences are the same."
Especially in regards to black men. Yes white people get pulled over for various reasons but we are far far less likely to die when encountering the police or be arrested for fake charges thanks in large part to our privilege. We are often given lesser sentences for similar crimes such as minor drug infractions.
The two situations are not equivalent.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 19, 2020 20:59:46 GMT -5
Opti, you're not helping yourself with the whataboutisms.
We all know that mixed children are considered Black if either of their parents is Black, right? I think to a large extent that's true. My 30 yr old son is 1/2 black, and he looks it. And if they look black, then yes, that's how they're treated. Not all mixed race children do, of course, so it really depends, in my opinion.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 19, 2020 21:03:52 GMT -5
I kind of like this one too. Not as funny as the woman who is mad the stolen car doesn't have Grey Poupon in it, but it definitely has the feel of people you do not expect driving BMW 7 series. So why might this person be targeted? For decisions he made? ... you are still blind to the point...
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jun 19, 2020 21:43:16 GMT -5
I've faced sexism but it's not remotely the same as a woman of color would experience or a lesbian would experience, or a Muslim/Jewish woman. Just as a man would not know what I experience as a woman. I still massively benefit from being white and straight. To claim that my experience is the same as theirs smacks of privilege. We may share common experiences as women but I cannot and will never get the rest given I got the other two going for me. And if I claimed anywhere in my post my experience was the same as theirs, I would agree with you. But I didn't. My life is not your lives. If we really are to build a better society we have to look at all of it. Not just fixate on the current social media obsession. Racism exists everywhere and its a mindset not a skin color. Its disappointing my experience cannot be seen as just another data point versus being unworthy of even being shared. It's NOT OUR TURN!!! Sit down and shut up. They've done a lot of work to get their issues to this level of attention, shut up and let them have it. They didn't carry on like this when Me Too was making the headlines. Or when we are getting some media for Equal Rights for Women. As one middle aged white woman to another...SHUT UP ALREADY!!! When anyone makes progress on social justice issues we all do. Let them have this time.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jun 20, 2020 6:52:50 GMT -5
This whole thread is depressing. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the 80’s and can get the song “people are people” out of my head. Dislike people for what they do, not what they look like. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors.
I know profiling is common, we all do it, just like judging people by their looks. I’m an ugly, middle aged white guy who looks like a biker on parole. I know I’ve been judged, but the reality is I just don’t care. I know the real me, am confident in who I am and don’t need to impress anyone.
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oped
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Post by oped on Jun 20, 2020 8:32:10 GMT -5
This whole thread is depressing. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the 80’s and can get the song “people are people” out of my head. Dislike people for what they do, not what they look like. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors. I know profiling is common, we all do it, just like judging people by their looks. I’m an ugly, middle aged white guy who looks like a biker on parole. I know I’ve been judged, but the reality is I just don’t care. I know the real me, am confident in who I am and don’t need to impress anyone. And your profile isn’t one people tend to shoot first and ask questions later..
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 20, 2020 8:36:13 GMT -5
This whole thread is depressing. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the 80’s and can get the song “people are people” out of my head. Dislike people for what they do, not what they look like. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and colors. I know profiling is common, we all do it, just like judging people by their looks. I’m an ugly, middle aged white guy who looks like a biker on parole. I know I’ve been judged, but the reality is I just don’t care. I know the real me, am confident in who I am and don’t need to impress anyone. I would think you would care if your profile could result in you on the ground suffocating with a knee on your neck or being shot any time you encounter the police. It's easy to say just let things roll off your back when you're a white dude.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 20, 2020 10:02:27 GMT -5
And no I don't fully understand, but I've had to watch myself and POC fight similar battles. Yeah, we must have misunderstood the part of your post where you said you were profiled like POC are. This is not a social media obsession, it is what POC have had to deal with for years and is now brought to light more often since we all now have cell phones with cameras that those years ago didn't have. Also, nobody said that your experiences were unworthy of being shared, just that you can't empathize with something you've never experienced. You really don't get it, do you? Actually the social media obsession I was referencing was the desire to call bigoted white women Karen. Given that you are picking my posts apart and making assumptions I did not make, you seem to be saying without saying that my experiences are worthless and should not be considered at all. I was not talking about my entire life, but my work life when I referenced those battles. I can't understand what I have never experienced? Is that the bottom line and my takeaway for this thread? Didn't once say that your opinion is worthless, just that it doesn't apply here. We're not talking about work life. We're talking about racial profiling, something you have never experienced in this manner because you are not a POC. If you and I were to be pulled over by police at separate times, you would be let go with a warning or a traffic ticket. I would have my car searched and possibly be shot. I've been pulled over for driving while brown. I've had my car searched when being pulled over for no reason. I didn't fight them, so I didn't get tackled or shot that time. Meanwhile the Karens of the world pop off to the police and act hysterical and get let go. So no, you can't understand something that you've never experienced.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Jun 20, 2020 10:10:03 GMT -5
You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn’t that we shouldn’t care, it’s that we need to start treating everybody the same, white, black, brown or purple.
However, you both did quickly demonstrate how even a basic comment can be turned into a racist rant. You are part of the problem.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jun 20, 2020 10:16:38 GMT -5
You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn’t that we shouldn’t care, it’s that we need to start treating everybody the same, white, black, brown or purple. However, you both did quickly demonstrate how even a basic comment can be turned into a racist rant. You are part of the problem. I agree with you that people should be treated the same regardless of race, but that's just not happening. I disagree that people drawing attention to it is being part of the problem. On the contrary, I find it to be part of the solution. The first step is identifying the problem. Now what are we all going to do to fix it?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2020 10:17:49 GMT -5
You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn’t that we shouldn’t care, it’s that we need to start treating everybody the same, white, black, brown or purple. However, you both did quickly demonstrate how even a basic comment can be turned into a racist rant. You are part of the problem. Sorry dude, but I think they nailed it. I encourage you to work to gain an understanding of why?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 20, 2020 10:36:54 GMT -5
You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn’t that we shouldn’t care, it’s that we need to start treating everybody the same, white, black, brown or purple. However, you both did quickly demonstrate how even a basic comment can be turned into a racist rant. You are part of the problem. They stated simple facts. It's not racist to comment on the ugly truth.
Should everyone be treated the same? Yes, absolutely. Does it happen? Has it EVER happened? No. That's what's depressing. Not this thread, which is simply pointing out that there's a major problem.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 20, 2020 11:07:29 GMT -5
You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn’t that we shouldn’t care, it’s that we need to start treating everybody the same, white, black, brown or purple. However, you both did quickly demonstrate how even a basic comment can be turned into a racist rant. You are part of the problem. Sorry dude, but I think they nailed it. I encourage you to work to gain an understanding of why? quoting so I can ❤ on this more.
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 20, 2020 11:12:32 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 20, 2020 11:12:32 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2020 11:16:43 GMT -5
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 20, 2020 11:54:03 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 20, 2020 11:54:03 GMT -5
Without studying and scoping the problem we can all go ape-shit and this becomes yet another hysteria like the one over mass shootings and Muslims. There is a real problem. I don't know why telling people they can't understand is seen as a huge plus. If we have no capability of understanding intellectually or emotionally, why even talk or share experiences?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 20, 2020 12:08:20 GMT -5
Opti. Please. Just stop already. It's plain that you don't get the point that is being made. Go find another thread to be "right" in.
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Opti
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Karens
Jun 20, 2020 12:19:09 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Jun 20, 2020 12:19:09 GMT -5
Opti . Please. Just stop already. It's plain that you don't get the point that is being made. Go find another thread to be "right" in. I've left. You really could have PMed me instead of tagging me to this thread.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2020 12:31:03 GMT -5
Without studying and scoping the problem we can all go ape-shit and this becomes yet another hysteria like the one over mass shootings and Muslims. There is a real problem. I don't know why telling people they can't understand is seen as a huge plus. If we have no capability of understanding intellectually or emotionally, why even talk or share experiences? Something came to me fairly recently in regards to transgender issues. I was struggling with understanding any of the non-binary stuff. I decided i didn't really need to understand it. It was good enough to simply accept it. When given the opportunity to hear a fellow human being talk about their journey, I listen and let them know I appreciate them sharing. With race, I listen to learn what behaviors POC see white people engaging in which come from our socialized racism and work to minimize them from my actions, with a hope of eliminating them. I don't have to understand the pain caused by these behaviors to accept that they cause pain and be motivated to act.
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