This is exactly how I feel.

[swamp]

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

[toomuchreality]

Jun 27, 2017 20:48:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

    Is it really that hard?  I have to wonder.  

[busymom]

I agree with this, too.  I don't know if there have always been plenty of people who didn't give a darn about anyone but themselves, and they just hid their opinion, or if attitudes about "others" has gotten worse over time.  I don't understand how people sleep at night, knowing a neighbor isn't getting enough food to feed their kids, etc, while others are sitting on more money than they could possibly spend in one lifetime.  I guess I never got the "greedy" gene.     Now, it's been taken further down the rabbit hole, as some are actually "proud" of not caring what happens to their neighbor.  The health care problem has brought this attitude front & center.  If you don't care what happens to others, you are NOT serving the greater good by running for political office.  Please put your efforts into running your own company, and let those who actually want to improve our country run for office.

[moneyminded]

I don't think people DON'T care about helping others.  I think people are tired of footing the bill for people that sit on their a$$ all day and not contribute a nickel to society.  Ask anyone and they are happy to have their taxes pay for welfare to help others get on their feet again, not make it a lifetime or generational way of living.  I mean really?  Why would anyone think it is okay to have other people go to work everyday to pay for their living.   Redic at the very least.

[swamp]

Jun 27, 2017 21:06:28 GMT -5 moneyminded said:

I don't think people DON'T care about helping others.  I think people are tired of footing the bill for people that sit on their a$$ all day and not contribute a nickel to society.  Ask anyone and they are happy to have their taxes pay for welfare to help others get on their feet again, not make it a lifetime or generational way of living.  I mean really?  Why would anyone think it is okay to have other people go to work everyday to pay for their living.   Redic at the very least.

I'm glad you know about the circumstances of every poor,person in the country. 

Most adults on food stamps work.  Please tell me home someone in a nursing home can get a job. 

I dont want to foot the bill for lazy ass people either, but I also,realize that telling people to get a job isn't the panacea for all.  For capitalism to work, we need unemployment. 

I recongize luck has a large role in where you end up in life.  One disease can change my life drastically. DH works in a cancer center.  Lives are ruined by that disease. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

It's really very simple: do unto others as you would have them do unto you...

But to truly understand the Golden Rule, one must have empathy. If you can't envision what it is to walk a mile in another's holey shoes, then you can never "walk the walk".

[moneyminded]

Nice sarcasm along with your own assumptions. This is why we have so many lurkers and not enough people participating on this forum.  One never knows what they'll get if one joins in on the conversation. You just killed it. 

[Peace Of Mind]

"I don’t know how to convince someone how to experience the basic human emotion of empathy. I cannot have one more conversation with someone who is content to see millions of people suffer needlessly in exchange for a tax cut that statistically they’ll never see (do you make anywhere close to the median American salary? Less? Congrats, this tax break is not for you).

I cannot have political debates with these people. Our disagreement is not merely political, but a fundamental divide on what it means to live in a society, how to be a good person, and why any of that matters."


I don't know how either.   Many people who are in very good financial shape complain the most about people on food stamps, etc.  DH and I always wonder why do they care so much that other's are needing assistance especially with food?  They have way more than they need.  How is it affecting them?  It's not.  They are just resentful that they don't have more than they already do.  But they piss money away on so many things it makes us laugh how they are so penny wise and lb. foolish while begrudging other's of help who need it.  Maybe if you'd manage your money better you'd be less resentful at what other's who aren't fairing as well are getting?  


The world is overflowing with the foolish fruits born of every form of arrogance.  Those blinded by their own greed are unaware of the dark consequences of their actions.  Life, nature, civilization... the power to produce and reproduce is a wonderful thing.  Yet once it crosses a certain line, it degenerates into an ugly mass of covetousness.  Human beings are such weak creatures.  That's what drives them to claw their way higher.  And once they reach a height from which they can gaze down on others, they become transfixed by the delusion that they can have it all to themselves.    They are blinded by their own greed.

[giramomma]

Jun 27, 2017 21:06:28 GMT -5 moneyminded said:

I don't think people DON'T care about helping others.  I think people are tired of footing the bill for people that sit on their a$$ all day and not contribute a nickel to society.

Actually, I do think that some people don't care about helping others.

I was raised in a household where my parents would have kicked me out of the house if I became pregnant as a teen.

The ONLY thing worse than being a pregnant teen was asking others for help or receiving help from someone.

And I'm not talking about social welfare. I'm talking like normal people helping each other out..

Like having a neighbor help you put a deck on your house, or assemble furniture (in my case.)

I didn't understand normal social constructs, like offering to bring  a family with a newborn a meal, or offering to watch the older kids to have time with a baby. One of the parents in DD1's class had cancer right after giving birth to a child with a cleft palate. We made a meal for her family. It's not an automatic thing for me to think...I can help by....I'm grateful someone else made a sign up. That was a good trigger for me to help.

So, when my boss/neighbor offered to help us assemble furniture when we moved into our house..I felt like a failure. It caused some huge anxiety in me to accept his much needed help.

I mean, come on. That's not normal. And it has nothing to do with taxes and encouraging generation after generation of living on the gov't dole.

But, my mom truly believed that no one helped her and that everyone let her down. Therefore she didn't really feel the need to help others. And so we didn't.

It took me like 6ish years to learn how to be OK with asking for help from other people, and being OK with accepting help from others when they offered.

We model different behaviors for our kids. And I like I am now, so much better than where I used to be.

[zibazinski]

There are plenty of people who don't care about helping others. They have their reasons. There are people that do care about helping others. They also have their reasons. Both feel their reasons are valid.

[giramomma]

Jun 27, 2017 21:28:35 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

But to truly understand the Golden Rule, one must have empathy. If you can't envision what it is to walk a mile in another's holey shoes, then you can never "walk the walk".

I agree with this, but I think the notion of empathy is hard.

The definition of empathy is to "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."

There's times where it's been hard for me to be empathetic.

I lost half of my grandparents by the time I was 5. The rest, 8. When DH lost his grandparents in his late teens and early 20s, I didn't have empathy for him. I never met one of my grandparents. I never had the same type of relationships with my grands that DH had with his.

So, I could not understand his pain. I mean, I really couldn't. I could imagine it...but I couldn't get it. Because it wasn't my experience, and I hadn't lost anyone that I've had long term relationships with.

I am also not empathetic with my DH with regards to his addiction and his recovery. I have an academic sense of they whys of his addiction...but I do not get addiction. I'm not wired to. Anytime I've tried to really understand and share his feelings I'm like . So I stopped.

DH is the same way, with me, when he learned I self-injured. He was pretty much like WTH? People do this...and it makes them feel better? He'll never understand me, because he's not wired that way.

I can be compassionate and sympathetic towards folks that need my help. But, likely I will never understand what it's like to be working poor. Because likely, we will never part of the working poor demographic. My kids can be compassionate and sympathetic towards babies that don't have diapers and hound us to buy diapers for the church's diaper drive. But, they won't ever REALLY understand an experience where there weren't enough diapers for them.

[imawino]

Jun 27, 2017 21:06:28 GMT -5 moneyminded said:

I don't think people DON'T care about helping others.  I think people are tired of footing the bill for people that sit on their a$$ all day and not contribute a nickel to society.  Ask anyone and they are happy to have their taxes pay for welfare to help others get on their feet again, not make it a lifetime or generational way of living.  I mean really?  Why would anyone think it is okay to have other people go to work everyday to pay for their living.   Redic at the very least.

There are a lot of people who don't care at all about helping others.  There is a huge number of people who are NOT happy to have a penny go to pay welfare just to get people on their feet again. Believing otherwise is completely "redic" at the very least.  

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Me too, swamp

[chiver78]

thank you for this, swamp.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 27, 2017 20:48:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_us_59519811e4b0f078efd98440?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

It's what I've been saying all along....there's too much of the "Not on my dime!" mentality.

[weltschmerz]

....and it usually comes from the people who have the most dimes.

[zibazinski]

Absolutely. When you work for it, you want to keep it not have it stolen from you for those that don't. I want to choose where my excess money goes, not have it chosen for me.

[zibazinski]

Jun 27, 2017 21:00:50 GMT -5 busymom said:

I agree with this, too.  I don't know if there have always been plenty of people who didn't give a darn about anyone but themselves, and they just hid their opinion, or if attitudes about "others" has gotten worse over time.  I don't understand how people sleep at night, knowing a neighbor isn't getting enough food to feed their kids, etc, while others are sitting on more money than they could possibly spend in one lifetime.  I guess I never got the "greedy" gene.     Now, it's been taken further down the rabbit hole, as some are actually "proud" of not caring what happens to their neighbor.  The health care problem has brought this attitude front & center.  If you don't care what happens to others, you are NOT serving the greater good by running for political office.  Please put your efforts into running your own company, and let those who actually want to improve our country run for office.

That'll never happen. Even those who initially run because they feel they can help change things in this country for the better, get caught up in the problem of those that are entrenched in the system and don't want it changed. So they start grabbing what they can get as well. That's why I'm a fan of term limits. It shouldn't be a lifetime career and you retain nothing from your job after serving. No salary and health care for life. What a scam. When was the last time you left a job but retained your old salary as well as your paid for insurance?

[Deleted]

Term limits mean nothing without a strict lobbying ban. They would also need to be staggered.

On the OP I agree.

[busymom]

Jun 28, 2017 6:56:13 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jun 27, 2017 21:00:50 GMT -5 busymom said:

I agree with this, too.  I don't know if there have always been plenty of people who didn't give a darn about anyone but themselves, and they just hid their opinion, or if attitudes about "others" has gotten worse over time.  I don't understand how people sleep at night, knowing a neighbor isn't getting enough food to feed their kids, etc, while others are sitting on more money than they could possibly spend in one lifetime.  I guess I never got the "greedy" gene.     Now, it's been taken further down the rabbit hole, as some are actually "proud" of not caring what happens to their neighbor.  The health care problem has brought this attitude front & center.  If you don't care what happens to others, you are NOT serving the greater good by running for political office.  Please put your efforts into running your own company, and let those who actually want to improve our country run for office.

That'll never happen. Even those who initially run because they feel they can help change things in this country for the better, get caught up in the problem of those that are entrenched in the system and don't want it changed. So they start grabbing what they can get as well. That's why I'm a fan of term limits. It shouldn't be a lifetime career and you retain nothing from your job after serving. No salary and health care for life. What a scam. When was the last time you left a job but retained your old salary as well as your paid for insurance?

   I'm a fan of term limits, too.  As well as eliminating the "special" health care & retirement plans of those who serve.  It's high time politicians had to struggle with the same problems as the rest of us.

[swasat]

Jun 28, 2017 6:49:17 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Absolutely. When you work for it, you want to keep it not have it stolen from you for those that don't. I want to choose where my excess money goes, not have it chosen for me.

I am glad not all of us who "work" for our money and make lots of it, are of the same opinion.

[movingforward]

I absolutely agree with the OP. While I do think some individuals lack empathy, I think there is another group of individuals that are just completely convinced that their money is only going to scammers who sit around eating cheetos and watching netflix all day. This is an idea that has been drilled into their heads over and over, so yeah, no one wants their hard earned money going to scammers. All they hear from the right is that the US is going to fall apart because we have a bunch of lazy ass people who don't want to work that are "stealing" from the rich. It doesn't matter how many statistics or how much research you show them that this is a small percentage of those receiving benefits, they believe it is the majority. 

Personally, I can't sit around thinking everyone in the universe is just in it for a "free ride." That kind of thinking would drive me absolutely crazy.

[MJ2.0]

Jun 27, 2017 21:31:41 GMT -5 moneyminded said:

Nice sarcasm along with your own assumptions. This is why we have so many lurkers and not enough people participating on this forum.  One never knows what they'll get if one joins in on the conversation. You just killed it. 

what assumptions? You laid it all out pretty clearly. And I'm betting that the vast majority of benefits recipients do work and aren't just "sitting on their ass all day". If swamp's response to you made you less likely to spew complete ignorance on here, I'm sorry if I don't consider it a loss for Proboards. #sorrynotsorry

[MJ2.0]

Jun 28, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I absolutely agree with the OP. While I do think some individuals lack empathy, I think there is another group of individuals that are just completely convinced that their money is only going to scammers who sit around eating cheetos and watching netflix all day. This is an idea that has been drilled into their heads over and over, so yeah, no one wants their hard earned money going to scammers. All they hear from the right is that the US is going to fall apart because we have a bunch of lazy ass people who don't want to work that are "stealing" from the rich. It doesn't matter how many statistics or how much research you show them that this is a small percentage of those receiving benefits, they believe it is the majority. 

Personally, I can't sit around thinking everyone in the universe is just in it for a "free ride." That kind of thinking would drive me absolutely crazy.

IMO that's just a flimsy justification for the selfish attitude. We've had threads where there are facts and figures showing that the idea of the lazy welfare queen does not represent the majority of recipients. And yet the cries of "ooh, there are so many welfare deadbeats!" continue.

[buystoys]

I disagree with some of the assumptions in the article.  I have no problem with paying school taxes.  I DO have a problem with my school taxes increasing because the school decided to build a $5 million football stadium.  I DO have a problem with voting "yes" on a referendum for an additional 5% increase when the budget already contains a 3% increase and working people in the area are seeing 0-1% pay raises.  (This actually happened when I lived in NY.  The school board approved the teacher's contract giving them a 5% annual increase and wanted all of us to just pay it with no questions asked.  )

Just because I'm not for a specific additional tax does NOT mean I have no empathy.  It means that I want to see the waste addressed first.  It means I want to see recipients who are making multiple bad decisions learn to make good decisions and get back on their feet rather than continue down a path that is not beneficial for anyone.  It means that I want recipients to value the benefits they receive just as much as I value every dollar given. 

I have absolutely NO issue with paying taxes.  I have absolutely NO issue with helping the less fortunate out.  I DO have an issue with people who assume I have little or no empathy because I'm not willing to just throw more money at problems that haven't been resolved with the millions/billions/trillions already spent on them.  More money isn't the answer for a lot of things. 

I also find the finger pointing in the article unhelpful.  Assuming that your view is the right one and calling others uncaring is probably not the way to get others to consider the point you are attempting to make.

[movingforward]

Jun 28, 2017 9:22:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jun 28, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I absolutely agree with the OP. While I do think some individuals lack empathy, I think there is another group of individuals that are just completely convinced that their money is only going to scammers who sit around eating cheetos and watching netflix all day. This is an idea that has been drilled into their heads over and over, so yeah, no one wants their hard earned money going to scammers. All they hear from the right is that the US is going to fall apart because we have a bunch of lazy ass people who don't want to work that are "stealing" from the rich. It doesn't matter how many statistics or how much research you show them that this is a small percentage of those receiving benefits, they believe it is the majority. 

Personally, I can't sit around thinking everyone in the universe is just in it for a "free ride." That kind of thinking would drive me absolutely crazy.

IMO that's just a flimsy justification for the selfish attitude. We've had threads where there are facts and figures showing that the idea of the lazy welfare queen does not represent the majority of recipients. And yet the cries of "ooh, there are so many welfare deadbeats!" continue.

You could be right... IDK...My father has become really hard to talk to in regards to politics. He is retired and sits around watching the news all day long. He is completely convinced that the US is going to collapse and it is all because of us trying to support poor people. I have never heard this type of talk from my father before and it makes me sad. He doesn't research anything, just listens to what the talking heads say. When I try to talk about facts and statistics he gets really defensive and tells me I don't know what I am talking about. This has just happened over the course of the last couple of years. It really upsets me because I feel like I am talking to a different person sometimes.

[MJ2.0]

Jun 28, 2017 9:33:25 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Jun 28, 2017 9:22:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

IMO that's just a flimsy justification for the selfish attitude. We've had threads where there are facts and figures showing that the idea of the lazy welfare queen does not represent the majority of recipients. And yet the cries of "ooh, there are so many welfare deadbeats!" continue.

You could be right... IDK...My father has become really hard to talk to in regards to politics. He is retired and sits around watching the news all day long. He is completely convinced that the US is going to collapse and it is all because of us trying to support poor people. I have never heard this type of talk from my father before and it makes me sad. He doesn't research anything, just listens to what the talking heads say. When I try to talk about facts and statistics he gets really defensive and tells me I don't know what I am talking about. This has just happened over the course of the last couple of years. It really upsets me because I feel like I am talking to a different person sometimes.

politicians and the media do such a good job of getting people to focus on red herring issues like welfare recipients and what healthcare changes may or may not be coming, while they are off getting into bed with dictators and having people killed or silenced. The White House need us to be whipped into a polarizing frenzy so they can do their dirty deeds unnoticed.

[Deleted]

Jun 28, 2017 9:22:07 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jun 28, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I absolutely agree with the OP. While I do think some individuals lack empathy, I think there is another group of individuals that are just completely convinced that their money is only going to scammers who sit around eating cheetos and watching netflix all day. This is an idea that has been drilled into their heads over and over, so yeah, no one wants their hard earned money going to scammers. All they hear from the right is that the US is going to fall apart because we have a bunch of lazy ass people who don't want to work that are "stealing" from the rich. It doesn't matter how many statistics or how much research you show them that this is a small percentage of those receiving benefits, they believe it is the majority. 

Personally, I can't sit around thinking everyone in the universe is just in it for a "free ride." That kind of thinking would drive me absolutely crazy.

IMO that's just a flimsy justification for the selfish attitude. We've had threads where there are facts and figures showing that the idea of the lazy welfare queen does not represent the majority of recipients. And yet the cries of "ooh, there are so many welfare deadbeats!" continue.

To be fair though, if you personally know a lot of these deadbeats they kind of stick out in your head when the topic of welfare comes up.  

The ones using it responsibly as a step up go unnoticed because they're working/in school/staying out of trouble...

[MJ2.0]

maybe.  I honestly don't know of anyone that I am 100% sure is on welfare.  I honestly don't care.  The lazy and spoiled boys that live across the street from X annoy me more.  Their parents work all the time, so they would throw obnoxious parties on weekday nights and come in at all hours of the night/morning with music blasting in their cars.  I have never seen them do one millisecond of mowing or shoveling.  The other day when I was dropping DS off, one or two of them were taking a spin in their new Maserati... going a whopping 10 MPH.  You shouldn't be allowed to own the car if you're going to drive it that slow!  In general, lazy, bratty, and self-absorbed people annoy me regardless of socioeconomic station.

[hoops902]

The real problem is that "helping people" is a spectrum and everyone pretty much feels like their amount of contribution is the "right" amount...whether that's zero or living in poverty to give your things to others. The article seemed fairly ridiculous in the use of examples...17 cents for a Big Mac isn't the problem.  Nobody is talking about leaving everything else in the world the same, and only raising the price of Big Macs. 

The reality is that pretty much everyone cares only to the point they stop feeling guilty.   How many of the people who "care" chose not to have biological children to adopt a needy child instead? How many walk around in tattered rags to spend their clothes money on helping the poor? How many can afford nice cars but drive clunkers and use the rest to house the homeless? How many stopped sending their kids to private school in order to give that money to help others? People help up to their level of guilt, then everyone wants to pretend that whatever their level is, that's the "right" one.