Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 10:22:11 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 10:23:26 GMT -5
I do get annoyed when I hear anyone say that "democrats making a living off the government" or any comment akin to that.
DH and I make pretty good money. We don't rely on the government and pay more in taxes than what the average family income is here.
I believe in the social contract, I do think we have an obligation to care for those who can't care for themselves. I also believe in personal responsibility and you should work.
Am I a minority? Are my beliefs that off the wall? apparently. I guess I'm a liberal nutjob too. I am okay with helping support a family on welfare because it's not the kids' fault the parents need welfare. BUT I do think there need to be more stipulations: -you can get welfare (food stamps, daycare voucher, housing voucher, free prepaid phone if needed) for 5 years max -you must complete mandatory job/vocational re-training during those 5 years (train to be a dental assistant, bookkeeper, drafter, x-ray tech... something that's like a 2-3 year program) I don't think that's too crazy. And what happens in year 6 if the parents still refuse to improve their position? Are you willing to cut off funding? Because if not then your stipulations mean nothing.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 10:24:59 GMT -5
apparently. I guess I'm a liberal nutjob too. I am okay with helping support a family on welfare because it's not the kids' fault the parents need welfare. BUT I do think there need to be more stipulations: -you can get welfare (food stamps, daycare voucher, housing voucher, free prepaid phone if needed) for 5 years max -you must complete mandatory job/vocational re-training during those 5 years (train to be a dental assistant, bookkeeper, drafter, x-ray tech... something that's like a 2-3 year program) I don't think that's too crazy. And what happens in year 6 if the parents still refuse to improve their position? Are you willing to cut off funding? Because if not then your stipulations mean nothing. obviously funding gets cut or else I would not have put up a year limit.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 10:26:36 GMT -5
I've been dehumanized for quite awhile now. The other problem with dehumanizing people into 'liberals' is not being so surprised when they start acting less than human.
Republicans have been playing a dicey game for a decade..it's not all going to shit has been preducated in dems continuing to act as reasonable, caring human beings. Fuck that.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,386
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2017 10:26:57 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. I don't know a lot of people collecting benefits but those I do know are republicans. Here's the thing...they don't seem to even recognize the fact that they are part of "those people" that Trump is talking about
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 10:30:00 GMT -5
And what happens in year 6 if the parents still refuse to improve their position? Are you willing to cut off funding? Because if not then your stipulations mean nothing. obviously funding gets cut or else I would not have put up a year limit. But the kids still suffer because they have parents who are poor.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 10:32:04 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. I don't know a lot of people collecting benefits but those I do know are republicans. Here's the thing...they don't seem to even recognize the fact that they are part of "those people" that Trump is talking about Perhaps that they can look beyond the fact that they are getting benefits and have hope that Trump can get our economy moving so they can be gainfully employed and no longer need benefits. Lord knows I would be in a deep depression if I had to receive benefits instead of having a well paying job. I would vote for who I thought could get me out of the hell hole known as poverty.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,161
|
Post by giramomma on Jun 29, 2017 10:34:16 GMT -5
What drives me nuts is people trying to dink and dunk around the edges of problems, because it sounds good. Not because it makes sense. When people are WAY over budget in their personal budget...and it's clear that car loans or being overextended on a house is the culprit we don't say "Cut the sling tv! Saving $25/month will totally make up for the $800 in car payments that eat up 25% of your budget. " We usually say "Dude, get rid of the cars! They are a drain on your budget!" Or "Move somewhere so that housing doesn't eat up 50% of your net!" But no on is willing to do that with medicare. Because old people. So, instead, we pick on the fringes to save a tiny bit of money while the bigger concerns go untouched. Every time I bring up nursing homes...it's well, there needs to be end of life discussion. I have yet to see a rational discussion here of what to do with folks that aren't close to death yet can't live on their own anymore . Because these are the folks that are costing quite a bit of money. I mean, I get the press dolled up the little old 90 year old to make her look good in the CNN article below. But, she clearly doesn't look like she's ready to die yet.. money.cnn.com/2017/06/29/news/economy/middle-class-medicaid-nursing-homes/index.htmlSo, what do we do with her? Force her live with one of her 4 kids? To open up a spot for a nursing home for someone who really needs it? I mean, she could live for another 10 years....
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
|
Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 10:34:46 GMT -5
I don't know a lot of people collecting benefits but those I do know are republicans. Here's the thing...they don't seem to even recognize the fact that they are part of "those people" that Trump is talking about Perhaps that they can look beyond the fact that they are getting benefits and have hope that Trump can get our economy moving so they can be gainfully employed and no longer need benefits. Lord knows I would be in a deep depression if I had to receive benefits instead of having a well paying job. I would vote for who I thought could get me out of the hell hole known as poverty. Government doesn't get you out of poverty, personal responsibility does.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 42,247
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2017 10:36:09 GMT -5
I do get annoyed when I hear anyone say that "democrats making a living off the government" or any comment akin to that.
DH and I make pretty good money. We don't rely on the government and pay more in taxes than what the average family income is here.
I believe in the social contract, I do think we have an obligation to care for those who can't care for themselves. I also believe in personal responsibility and you should work.
Am I a minority? Are my beliefs that off the wall? apparently. I guess I'm a liberal nutjob too. I am okay with helping support a family on welfare because it's not the kids' fault the parents need welfare. BUT I do think there need to be more stipulations: -you can get welfare (food stamps, daycare voucher, housing voucher, free prepaid phone if needed) for 5 years max -you must complete mandatory job/vocational re-training during those 5 years (train to be a dental assistant, bookkeeper, drafter, x-ray tech... something that's like a 2-3 year program) I don't think that's too crazy. Are there enough of these jobs for this to work?
But roughly 1 in every 10 Americans works in retail, which means millions rely on the industry for their livelihoods. “More workers in general merchandise stores have been laid off since October, about 89,000 Americans. That is more than all the people employed in the coal industry.”
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/04/the_response_to_the_retail_apocalypse_shows_which_workers_count_in_trump.html
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 10:41:01 GMT -5
obviously funding gets cut or else I would not have put up a year limit. But the kids still suffer because they have parents who are poor. It's not sustainable to support someone forever, you know that. 5 years is plenty of time to train for and get a decent job, and the daycare bills will gradually decrease as the kids get older.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 10:42:14 GMT -5
I don't know a lot of people collecting benefits but those I do know are republicans. Here's the thing...they don't seem to even recognize the fact that they are part of "those people" that Trump is talking about Perhaps that they can look beyond the fact that they are getting benefits and have hope that Trump can get our economy moving so they can be gainfully employed and no longer need benefits. Lord knows I would be in a deep depression if I had to receive benefits instead of having a well paying job. I would vote for who I thought could get me out of the hell hole known as poverty. Yeah. I need to introduce you to my ex MIL and SILs. They are not deep thinkers by any means. The reason they don't have jobs has NOTHING to do with immigrants like they seem to think. But, really their driving reason behind republican is defunding PP and allowing prayer in schools again. The Dems are godless heathens.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 10:43:20 GMT -5
apparently. I guess I'm a liberal nutjob too. I am okay with helping support a family on welfare because it's not the kids' fault the parents need welfare. BUT I do think there need to be more stipulations: -you can get welfare (food stamps, daycare voucher, housing voucher, free prepaid phone if needed) for 5 years max -you must complete mandatory job/vocational re-training during those 5 years (train to be a dental assistant, bookkeeper, drafter, x-ray tech... something that's like a 2-3 year program) I don't think that's too crazy. Are there enough of these jobs for this to work?
But roughly 1 in every 10 Americans works in retail, which means millions rely on the industry for their livelihoods. “More workers in general merchandise stores have been laid off since October, about 89,000 Americans. That is more than all the people employed in the coal industry.”
www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/04/the_response_to_the_retail_apocalypse_shows_which_workers_count_in_trump.html
I didn't mention retail at all. I purposely named jobs/trades that require a certain training and certification and that there is a need for. Besides, unless you are a store manager or above, working a retail job isn't going to pay the bills that well.
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 10:44:02 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 10:46:33 GMT -5
wasn't there a thread about the coming decline in skilled labor once all the baby boomers retire/die? Make the mandatory job training in one of those areas - carpentry, sheet metal, plumbing, electrical work.... Then both problems are solved. Boom.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 10:48:12 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached. I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. In my career, I have had the experience of warning people about taking a particular course of action. When they don't listen, I just sit back and let the shit fly - knowing I was right all along. That's how I feel now.
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 10:56:24 GMT -5
So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached. I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying. In my career, I have had the experience of warning people about taking a particular course of action. When they don't listen, I just sit back and let the shit fly - knowing I was right all along. That's how I feel now. I've been there as well in my career AND life! I gave up on trying to "help" people or "fix" their lives a long time ago. I will make my point if asked, but it's up to them to make the final decision. If they want discussion, I'll participate. If they just feel a need to emphasize WHY they are right, that's fine. I'm not going to argue with them. If they are offering false facts (which I frequently saw when I was doing Demand Planning ) then I'll state what I know and restate what I have when pushed. Ultimately, if they decide to do something I disagree with, I just let it happen and then try to help clean up the mess if I have to. If it's not on me, then I just let the mess stay in their arena because they have to deal with it. I don't.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 10:57:05 GMT -5
But the kids still suffer because they have parents who are poor. It's not sustainable to support someone forever, you know that. 5 years is plenty of time to train for and get a decent job, and the daycare bills will gradually decrease as the kids get older. Of course I know that. But I'm also not the one that says it isn't fair to the children to cut the parents off welfare. I'm one of those heartless republicans
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 10:59:31 GMT -5
Perhaps that they can look beyond the fact that they are getting benefits and have hope that Trump can get our economy moving so they can be gainfully employed and no longer need benefits. Lord knows I would be in a deep depression if I had to receive benefits instead of having a well paying job. I would vote for who I thought could get me out of the hell hole known as poverty. Government doesn't get you out of poverty, personal responsibility does.
Agreed. But when you have the government putting so many regulations and costs on companies that they choose not to hire or worse, to move to a different location, that can and does impact the availability of jobs.
|
|
Lizard Queen
Senior Associate
103/2024
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
Posts: 14,659
|
Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 29, 2017 11:04:07 GMT -5
I thought that there was a 5 year limit? . And people kept having more kids to continue the benefits? Sorry, I don't really know how it all works. I'm one of those "bleeding heart liberals" who thinks there should be much stricter limits on how the aid is used. (See really a moderate )
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 11:05:01 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. You mean like those people that fought to get minimum wage increased $15/hour and are now actually making less because their hours have been cut? I totally agree...let them reap what they sew!
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 42,247
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2017 11:05:22 GMT -5
I didn't mention retail at all. I purposely named jobs/trades that require a certain training and certification and that there is a need for. Besides, unless you are a store manager or above, working a retail job isn't going to pay the bills that well. I mentioned it because I think our economy (US) on the whole is not setup to support all adults with market wages that fully pay the bills. That's why Walmart makes deals with the US government IMO. In an individual case what you suggest might work. If all states did so I expect we'd have a glut of people with two to three year degrees with many of them unemployed.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 11:05:43 GMT -5
It's why, as others have noted, I've struggled so much lately. Most of the people I know who voted for Trump ARE the ones getting benefits. Part of me wants to just let them reap what they sew. So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached. OK. I'll tell this story one more time. Over a decade. Living in this republican area. Running what has become the largest homeschool group in the area... a secular group, in a largely religious oriented homeschooling community. I get told repeatedly I'm the first or only friend someone has who is a 'libaral'. I have always based all of my interactions on supporting who each indidvual is AS an individual. Always taking the pro for whoever I'm with may be talking the con... ie. I don't talk shit about moms. You aren't doing it like I'm doing, people point out why they think you are wrong, i will ALWAYS take the option of pointing out WHY you might have a legitimate reason for making your choice... even if its not what i would do, even if i think its not ideal (obviously not neglect or abuse)... I have constantly opened and continued discussion about how everyone has the right to live like they believe, and on hot button topics, I've always focused on joint tenets held in common and joint actions that could undertaken together. I give a ton of my time, my money, myself to this cause. To these people... I know how to fucking listen. I know how to have a conversation. I know how to deflate ugly talk into positive talk. I'm the one tired of being dismissed. I was basically told in this last election, by people who hang Giant Trump Won banners in their living rooms, by people who actually registered to vote for the first time this election to vote for trump... that my efforts are shit. I might listen, but no one else has... that I WILL live under what they consider to be normal and right and i should just shut up about it and learn to love it... So. Yeah. I'm tired as fuck and not really into listening anymore. I'm not really feeling like being patient for another decade while the other side gloats and ratchets up the hate and oppression. The other side seems to have benefitted from loudly bellowing and name calling and diseminating disinformation and etc... so whatever. I have reaped shit from what i tried to sow. Maybe I'll just try a different crop.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,386
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2017 11:07:14 GMT -5
Perhaps that they can look beyond the fact that they are getting benefits and have hope that Trump can get our economy moving so they can be gainfully employed and no longer need benefits. Lord knows I would be in a deep depression if I had to receive benefits instead of having a well paying job. I would vote for who I thought could get me out of the hell hole known as poverty. Yeah. I need to introduce you to my ex MIL and SILs. They are not deep thinkers by any means. The reason they don't have jobs has NOTHING to do with immigrants like they seem to think. But, really their driving reason behind republican is defunding PP and allowing prayer in schools again. The Dems are godless heathens. But I am a godless heathen with a job
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 11:17:30 GMT -5
So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached. OK. I'll tell this story one more time. Over a decade. Living in this republican area. Running what has become the largest homeschool group in the area... a secular group, in a largely religious oriented homeschooling community. I get told repeatedly I'm the first or only friend someone has who is a 'libaral'. I have always based all of my interactions on supporting who each indidvual is AS an individual. Always taking the pro for whoever I'm with may be talking the con... ie. I don't talk shit about moms. You aren't doing it like I'm doing, people point out why they think you are wrong, i will ALWAYS take the option of pointing out WHY you might have a legitimate reason for making your choice... even if its not what i would do, even if i think its not ideal (obviously not neglect or abuse)... I have constantly opened and continued discussion about how everyone has the right to live like they believe, and on hot button topics, I've always focused on joint tenets held in common and joint actions that could undertaken together. I give a ton of my time, my money, myself to this cause. To these people... I know how to fucking listen. I know how to have a conversation. I know how to deflate ugly talk into positive talk. I'm the one tired of being dismissed. I was basically told in this last election, by people who hang Giant Trump Won banners in their living rooms, by people who actually registered to vote for the first time this election to vote for trump... that my efforts are shit. I might listen, but no one else has... that I WILL live under what they consider to be normal and right and i should just shut up about it and learn to love it... So. Yeah. I'm tired as fuck and not really into listening anymore. I'm not really feeling like being patient for another decade while the other side gloats and ratchets up the hate and oppression. The other side seems to have benefitted from loudly bellowing and name calling and diseminating disinformation and etc... so whatever. I have reaped shit from what i tried to sow. Maybe I'll just try a different crop. But I don't think you see that is exactly how the far left is towards us with more conservative views. Even on this board several of us were ridiculed for being afraid of penises because we don't think men belong in the bathroom with women (and if you have a penis, you are a man). Or wanting illegals to be deported to keep our country safe. And so on and so on. So please do not act like the left has been willing to compromise or even listen to those of us that disagree with the liberal social views. It's like the democrats took a hard left somewhere and those of us that disagreed were told to deal with it. So it is now payback time, I guess.
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 11:20:00 GMT -5
So let them. After all, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US gets to reap what is sown. But be careful about what you yourself (the generic you) are sowing. If you are being derogatory towards those you claim you want to help, then your message will never be heard. That's a big part of the problem right now. Maybe people ARE listening, but if they aren't agreeing with the statements being made, then they are dismissed. There's no real discussion, just people attempting to make their point and then name shaming the opposition when perfect agreement or absolute support for that point isn't reached. OK. I'll tell this story one more time. Over a decade. Living in this republican area. Running what has become the largest homeschool group in the area... a secular group, in a largely religious oriented homeschooling community. I get told repeatedly I'm the first or only friend someone has who is a 'libaral'. I have always based all of my interactions on supporting who each indidvual is AS an individual. Always taking the pro for whoever I'm with may be talking the con... ie. I don't talk shit about moms. You aren't doing it like I'm doing, people point out why they think you are wrong, i will ALWAYS take the option of pointing out WHY you might have a legitimate reason for making your choice... even if its not what i would do, even if i think its not ideal (obviously not neglect or abuse)... I have constantly opened and continued discussion about how everyone has the right to live like they believe, and on hot button topics, I've always focused on joint tenets held in common and joint actions that could undertaken together. I give a ton of my time, my money, myself to this cause. To these people... I know how to fucking listen. I know how to have a conversation. I know how to deflate ugly talk into positive talk. I'm the one tired of being dismissed. I was basically told in this last election, by people who hang Giant Trump Won banners in their living rooms, by people who actually registered to vote for the first time this election to vote for trump... that my efforts are shit. I might listen, but no one else has... that I WILL live under what they consider to be normal and right and i should just shut up about it and learn to love it... So. Yeah. I'm tired as fuck and not really into listening anymore. I'm not really feeling like being patient for another decade while the other side gloats and ratchets up the hate and oppression. The other side seems to have benefitted from loudly bellowing and name calling and diseminating disinformation and etc... so whatever. I have reaped shit from what i tried to sow. Maybe I'll just tray a different crop. And I lived for 25 years in an area that is Blue (NY/NJ). I get exactly what you're saying because I was told I was racist for not voting for BHO even though I gave policy reasons for my voting preference. I was told I was horrible and hard hearted for not supporting Medicaid expansion because I was concerned that the Federal funding might one day disappear. I've been told that I'm cruel because I have no issue with deporting illegal aliens even if they've created a family here. I'm not a Republican, but because I speak out on a couple of issues that are hot topics for me, I'm lumped into that category without ever being asked what my beliefs are and dismissed immediately. You're not the only one being dismissed. And maybe that's part of the problem. You want to view the extremists from the right as everyone from the other side. Yet I've seen you state that the extremists from the left aren't the whole party. Maybe accept that it's that way for both sides, then? I've also been called a lot of names and I have no party affiliation. I see both sides ratcheting up the hate and oppressive language/actions. I see both sides benefiting from loudly bellowing and name calling and disseminating disinformation. That's why I have been and will continue to push for a third party to increase their presence in this country. It's obvious to me that BOTH parties have no interest in actual discussion or governing. BOTH parties are more interested in shame naming, finger pointing, and feeding the extremists of their side. It's your choice of which crop to sow.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 11:21:23 GMT -5
I'm actually disappointed in the Republican party that Trump even made it to the primaries. Really, I was disappointed in both parties' choices. They both could have done better IMO. I just hope Trump's a one-term prez and we can get someone who is more moderate in office soon. We can't have leadership this far on either end of the spectrum (although my gut tells me there isn't as much division in DC as we believe there is).
|
|
buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
|
Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 11:26:49 GMT -5
I'm actually disappointed in the Republican party that Trump even made it to the primaries. Really, I was disappointed in both parties' choices. They both could have done better IMO. I just hope Trump's a one-term prez and we can get someone who is more moderate in office soon. We can't have leadership this far on either end of the spectrum (although my gut tells me there isn't as much division in DC as we believe there is). While I don't personally like the guy, I'm not too disappointed that DJT made it to the primaries. The Republican party seemed to have a number of hard right candidates on their card. DJT was at least more moderate than many of them and seemed to pull the whole primary group more towards the center. I am disappointed that Kasich didn't have a better showing but I think anyone following BHO needed to have a much more dynamic personality. I agree with you that there probably isn't as much personal division in DC, but I think that the extremes on both sides are being louder and the only ones heard. That's driving the Congressional members to extremes in their positions which has led to complete gridlock for so many years.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 11:26:59 GMT -5
OK. I'll tell this story one more time. Over a decade. Living in this republican area. Running what has become the largest homeschool group in the area... a secular group, in a largely religious oriented homeschooling community. I get told repeatedly I'm the first or only friend someone has who is a 'libaral'. I have always based all of my interactions on supporting who each indidvual is AS an individual. Always taking the pro for whoever I'm with may be talking the con... ie. I don't talk shit about moms. You aren't doing it like I'm doing, people point out why they think you are wrong, i will ALWAYS take the option of pointing out WHY you might have a legitimate reason for making your choice... even if its not what i would do, even if i think its not ideal (obviously not neglect or abuse)... I have constantly opened and continued discussion about how everyone has the right to live like they believe, and on hot button topics, I've always focused on joint tenets held in common and joint actions that could undertaken together. I give a ton of my time, my money, myself to this cause. To these people... I know how to fucking listen. I know how to have a conversation. I know how to deflate ugly talk into positive talk. I'm the one tired of being dismissed. I was basically told in this last election, by people who hang Giant Trump Won banners in their living rooms, by people who actually registered to vote for the first time this election to vote for trump... that my efforts are shit. I might listen, but no one else has... that I WILL live under what they consider to be normal and right and i should just shut up about it and learn to love it... So. Yeah. I'm tired as fuck and not really into listening anymore. I'm not really feeling like being patient for another decade while the other side gloats and ratchets up the hate and oppression. The other side seems to have benefitted from loudly bellowing and name calling and diseminating disinformation and etc... so whatever. I have reaped shit from what i tried to sow. Maybe I'll just tray a different crop. And I lived for 25 years in an area that is Blue (NY/NJ). I get exactly what you're saying because I was told I was racist for not voting for BHO even though I gave policy reasons for my voting preference. I was told I was horrible and hard hearted for not supporting Medicaid expansion because I was concerned that the Federal funding might one day disappear. I've been told that I'm cruel because I have no issue with deporting illegal aliens even if they've created a family here. I'm not a Republican, but because I speak out on a couple of issues that are hot topics for me, I'm lumped into that category without ever being asked what my beliefs are and dismissed immediately. You're not the only one being dismissed. And maybe that's part of the problem. You want to view the extremists from the right as everyone from the other side. Yet I've seen you state that the extremists from the left aren't the whole party. Maybe accept that it's that way for both sides, then? I've also been called a lot of names and I have no party affiliation. I see both sides ratcheting up the hate and oppressive language/actions. I see both sides benefiting from loudly bellowing and name calling and disseminating disinformation. That's why I have been and will continue to push for a third party to increase their presence in this country. It's obvious to me that BOTH parties have no interest in actual discussion or governing. BOTH parties are more interested in shame naming, finger pointing, and feeding the extremists of their side. It's your choice of which crop to sow. I agree with everything you have stated. I find it hysterical that anyone would think that I am racist because I didn't vote for BHO and didn't believe in his policies. There is on poster in particular on this board that always threw around the racist card when BHO was criticized. FFS, anyone that knows me would know I wouldn't agree with BHO no matter who he was!
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
|
Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 11:35:43 GMT -5
And I lived for 25 years in an area that is Blue (NY/NJ). I get exactly what you're saying because I was told I was racist for not voting for BHO even though I gave policy reasons for my voting preference. I was told I was horrible and hard hearted for not supporting Medicaid expansion because I was concerned that the Federal funding might one day disappear. I've been told that I'm cruel because I have no issue with deporting illegal aliens even if they've created a family here. I'm not a Republican, but because I speak out on a couple of issues that are hot topics for me, I'm lumped into that category without ever being asked what my beliefs are and dismissed immediately. You're not the only one being dismissed. And maybe that's part of the problem. You want to view the extremists from the right as everyone from the other side. Yet I've seen you state that the extremists from the left aren't the whole party. Maybe accept that it's that way for both sides, then? I've also been called a lot of names and I have no party affiliation. I see both sides ratcheting up the hate and oppressive language/actions. I see both sides benefiting from loudly bellowing and name calling and disseminating disinformation. That's why I have been and will continue to push for a third party to increase their presence in this country. It's obvious to me that BOTH parties have no interest in actual discussion or governing. BOTH parties are more interested in shame naming, finger pointing, and feeding the extremists of their side. It's your choice of which crop to sow. I agree with everything you have stated. I find it hysterical that anyone would think that I am racist because I didn't vote for BHO and didn't believe in his policies. There is on poster in particular on this board that always threw around the racist card when BHO was criticized. FFS, anyone that knows me would know I wouldn't agree with BHO no matter who he was!
Again, nobody should listen to the extremes.
But, sadly, there are people who don't like BHO because he's black. My FIL is one. My husband said something positive about Obama, and his father asked him if he really liked that ni**er. DH just got up and left.
|
|