buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 11:45:51 GMT -5
I agree with everything you have stated. I find it hysterical that anyone would think that I am racist because I didn't vote for BHO and didn't believe in his policies. There is on poster in particular on this board that always threw around the racist card when BHO was criticized. FFS, anyone that knows me would know I wouldn't agree with BHO no matter who he was!
Again, nobody should listen to the extremes.
But, sadly, there are people who don't like BHO because he's black. My FIL is one. My husband said something positive about Obama, and his father asked him if he really liked that ni**er. DH just got up and left.
I don't disagree with you, but I have begun to believe that it's not only the extremes who believe anyone who didn't vote for BHO is racist and that anyone who didn't vote for HRC is sexist, racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, etc. There are too many times that's been thrown around on this board alone by too many people. Yes, there are still people in this world that are racist, sexist, etc. But throwing that name out at people because they disagree with you on a topic has made the name shaming game become meaningless. If someone calls someone else racist, I mostly ignore everything else they say after that because they've shown me they are more interested in making their point than in having a meaningful discussion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 11:50:12 GMT -5
Racism exists in our world. In our country. In our institutions. Some indivdiual people are prejudiced.
The issue generally occurs when some people want to extol their lack of prejudice and equate it to an absence of racism. Or likewise some want to discuss racism and others hear that as an indication that they are themselves prejudiced.
We need to be able to discuss racism without reducing everything to indivdiual prejudice.
But again that would take middle ground and I've pretty much given up on that shit.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 29, 2017 11:56:07 GMT -5
I think we need to find things we can all agree on.... like cookies. Hmmm.... I think I found a way to bring the country together.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 11:56:17 GMT -5
Again, nobody should listen to the extremes.
But, sadly, there are people who don't like BHO because he's black. My FIL is one. My husband said something positive about Obama, and his father asked him if he really liked that ni**er. DH just got up and left.
I don't disagree with you, but I have begun to believe that it's not only the extremes who believe anyone who didn't vote for BHO is racist and that anyone who didn't vote for HRC is sexist, racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, etc. There are too many times that's been thrown around on this board alone by too many people. Yes, there are still people in this world that are racist, sexist, etc. But throwing that name out at people because they disagree with you on a topic has made the name shaming game become meaningless. If someone calls someone else racist, I mostly ignore everything else they say after that because they've shown me they are more interested in making their point than in having a meaningful discussion. So much this! Just like I'm sure people voted AGAINST trump because he was a white man, I have no doubt that there are some racists who wouldn't vote for Obama no matter if they agreed with him or not. I have also seen women say they are "voting with their vagina" with their vote for Hillary (facebook). Isn't that just as sexist as someone NOT voting for her because she has a vagina?
Most people vote with their brain. I didn't vote for BHO or Hillary because my political leanings do not align with theirs. So it truly cracks me up that Hillary fans claim she lost because she has a vagina. Perhaps she lost because people didn't want four more years of BHO polices.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2017 11:57:30 GMT -5
Luckily, I don't come in contact with many extremists in real life. I mainly just see them in the media and a few here on the politics board. The few I have come in contact with (on both sides) on social media have been unfriended, blocked, etc. I don't go to the politics board here too often because I just can't take a lot of the negativity and name calling. I consider myself a moderate/independent. In general, I lean to the left due to social issues. I consider myself financially conservative but also know there is real poverty out there and not all of it is due to bad choices. Shit happens...Most of my board of directors are Republicans (most are moderate republicans). I have had many reasonable conversations with them so I know all republicans are not ignorant, racist, etc. I just recently had a conversation regarding the transgender bathroom issue. I have absolutely zero problem with people using whatever bathroom they want, but one of our board members has a big problem with it. He and I had a very reasonable conversation and, though I don't agree with him, I did at least understand his concerns. If people would just start listening to one another instead of seeing who can scream the loudest maybe we could at least start to understand REAL feelings.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 11:59:39 GMT -5
Racism exists in our world. In our country. In our institutions. Some indivdiual people are prejudiced. The issue generally occurs when some people want to extol their lack of prejudice and equate it to an absence of racism. Or likewise some want to discuss racism and others hear that as an indication that they are themselves prejudiced. We need to be able to discuss racism without reducing everything to indivdiual prejudice. But again that would take middle ground and I've pretty much given up on that shit. Feel free to give up if you like. I agree that racism exists globally. I agree that some people are prejudiced. I agree that there is no option, at this time, for real discussion of either topic because those who want to push their own view point or agenda are speaking so loudly that no one else can be heard. That's happening on both sides. I'm not giving up, but I'm biding my time. If someone is so busy yelling that they won't listen, I continue to have hope that they will eventually tire themselves out enough to hear what I'm saying. But if what I'm saying is attacked by calling me names before listening to my point, then I'm pretty much going to ignore what they say afterwards. That doesn't mean I've given up. It just means that the time is not yet ripened and I'll wait some more.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 12:03:33 GMT -5
Luckily, I don't come in contact with many extremists in real life. I mainly just see them in the media and a few here on the politics board. The few I have come in contact with (on both sides) on social media have been unfriended blocked, etc. I don't go to the politics board here too often because I just can't take a lot of the negativity and name calling. I consider myself a moderate/independent. In general, I lean to the left due to social issues. I consider myself financially conservative but also know there is real poverty out there and not all of it is due to bad choices. Shit happens...Most of my board of directors are Republicans (though probably are more moderate republicans). I have had many reasonable conversations with them so I know all republicans are not ignorant, racist, etc. I just recently had a conversation regarding the transgender bathroom issue. I have absolutely zero problem withe people using whatever bathroom they want, but one of our board members has a big problem with it. He and had a very reasonable conversation and, though I don't agree with him, I did at least understand his concerns. If people would just start listening to one another instead of seeing who can scream the louder maybe we could at least start understand REAL feelings. I don't spend time with the type of people that insist on forcing their beliefs down my throat. I do have a few on FB but I have hidden them because I get sick of their daily rants. Though I did respond to one moron who kept posting #notmypresident and asked her when she let the country....she unfriended me Generally I don't post political anything for the same reason. I know that not everyone agrees with me and that's ok.
Believe it or not, for as conservative as I am I am the one that fought for domestic partner insurance coverage at work. One of my staff was a lesbian and she was legally married in a different state (this was obviously a few years ago). Her partner didn't work and they were struggling with heatlh insurance. I fought on her behalf and got it pushed through. I'm all for being fair and her being married has no bearing on my marriage (at the time). And to be fair, it wasn't that I worked for a bunch of assholes who were against gay marriage. It's just that it never came up as an issue.
now, the "men in the women's bathroom" will be an issue for me and if it ever becomes an issue at work I will totally fight against it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 12:06:07 GMT -5
I don't mind listening and understanding. But any debate that ends with legislation that allows you to live the way you feel is in line with your rights and beliefs, and denies me the ability to live the way i feel is in line with my rights and beliefs... is not about a conversation.
The problem is also defining the middle. I tend to find anyone being allowed to do what they want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, equality under the law, etc. to be middle ground.
So, to me, abortion extremes are You WILL NOT get one. And You MUST get one. With the middle being everyone free to make their own decisions about what works for them.
ie. You believe it is morally reprehensible to have an abortion. I believe it is morally reprehensible to willingly and knowingly tether a soul to a body ravaged by disease or disorder. We can both listen to one another, and i can understand your point of view, and why you make your decision, even if i don't agree with it... But if you change the law so that only one of us can act as we see right and moral, then that isn't about a discussion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 12:08:17 GMT -5
Racism exists in our world. In our country. In our institutions. Some indivdiual people are prejudiced. The issue generally occurs when some people want to extol their lack of prejudice and equate it to an absence of racism. Or likewise some want to discuss racism and others hear that as an indication that they are themselves prejudiced. We need to be able to discuss racism without reducing everything to indivdiual prejudice. But again that would take middle ground and I've pretty much given up on that shit. Feel free to give up if you like. I agree that racism exists globally. I agree that some people are prejudiced. I agree that there is no option, at this time, for real discussion of either topic because those who want to push their own view point or agenda are speaking so loudly that no one else can be heard. That's happening on both sides. I'm not giving up, but I'm biding my time. If someone is so busy yelling that they won't listen, I continue to have hope that they will eventually tire themselves out enough to hear what I'm saying. But if what I'm saying is attacked by calling me names before listening to my point, then I'm pretty much going to ignore what they say afterwards. That doesn't mean I've given up. It just means that the time is not yet ripened and I'll wait some more. Who is calling you names? Really? Subtle attacks, still attacks, and will be read as such. Its also not effective to not listen and say, well i would be open to honest debate, but I'm being called names, and so i just can't, and you are just as bad, and.. fuck it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 12:10:39 GMT -5
I don't mind listening and understanding. But any debate that ends with legislation that allows you to live the way you feel is in line with your rights and beliefs, and denies me the ability to live the way i feel is in line with my rights and beliefs... is not about a conversation. The problem is also defining the middle. I tend to find anyone being allowed to do what they want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, equality under the law, etc. to be middle ground. So, to me, abortion extremes are You WILL NOT get one. And You MUST get one. With the middle being everyone free to make their own decisions about what works for them. ie. You believe it is morally reprehensible to have an abortion. I believe it is morally reprehensible to willingly and knowingly tether a soul to a body ravaged by disease or disorder. We can both listen to one another, and i can understand your point of view, and why you make your decision, even if i don't agree with it... But if you change the law so that only one of us can act as we see right and moral, then that isn't about a discussion. Do you seriously think there is any chance that Roe v Wade will be reversed and abortions will somehow become illegal? I'm very much pro-life but that doesn't even enter my thought process when voting because I know that I am in the minority. I'm not going to waste my vote to change what I cannot change. I will vote against tax dollars being used to pay for abortions.
But I have the same issues on my side. Those on the left want us to now believe that men are women. Men can now compete on women's sports teams (and usually tromp the women), change in their locker rooms, use their bathrooms, etc. I'm sorry, but that DOES harm people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 12:14:45 GMT -5
I hear it constantly around me. They voted for Trump for 'life'. For the Supreme Court.
Actually you hear whatever you want to hear. There are plenty of people who know that gender issues evolving is new and are searching for ways to make all people feel comfortable WITHOUT dismissing or putting anyone at danger. There are plenty of ways to make that happen. And most people here have discussed lots of options. But you only hear what you want to hear...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 12:16:28 GMT -5
I hear it constantly around me. They voted for Trump for 'life'. For the Supreme Court. Actually you hear whatever you want to hear. There are plenty of people who know that gender issues evolving is new and are searching for ways to make all people feel comfortable WITHOUT dismissing or putting anyone at danger. There are plenty of ways to make that happen. And most people here have discussed lots of options. But you only hear what you want to hear... And you only hear what you want to hear
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 12:18:31 GMT -5
No. I don't actually. I'm just much less willing to listen at the moment. I still hear it all. I still constantly try to search out options and alternatives in my head, because its how I'm wired. Its why currently things are such a struggle. Because i really, really want to stop. I really really want to just become what the other side has been telling me forever i am and just say fuck it all to bits...
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 12:25:23 GMT -5
No. I don't actually. I'm just much less willing to listen at the moment. I still hear it all. I still constantly try to search out options and alternatives in my head, because its how I'm wired. Its why currently things are such a struggle. Because i really, really want to stop. I really really want to just become what the other side has been telling me forever i am and just say fuck it all to bits... lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 12:51:20 GMT -5
No. I don't actually. I'm just much less willing to listen at the moment. I still hear it all. I still constantly try to search out options and alternatives in my head, because its how I'm wired. Its why currently things are such a struggle. Because i really, really want to stop. I really really want to just become what the other side has been telling me forever i am and just say fuck it all to bits... lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
but there is scientific research showing gender is fluid and it's more than the naughty bits between your legs.
In the meantime, I'm willing to make reasonable accomodations until we figure that out. And it doesn't include turning locker rooms into a free for all.
But I have to say, the whole locker room thing seems really overblown to me. I don't get naked in a locker room too often. Usually only after open swim at HS in the winter. Once in a while at the city pool if I'm going somewhere other than home after swimming.
Bathrooms generally have a stall. I don't care who is doing what in the stall next to me. I'm sure we've all been peeing with transgender people for years before it became an issue.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 12:56:28 GMT -5
Feel free to give up if you like. I agree that racism exists globally. I agree that some people are prejudiced. I agree that there is no option, at this time, for real discussion of either topic because those who want to push their own view point or agenda are speaking so loudly that no one else can be heard. That's happening on both sides. I'm not giving up, but I'm biding my time. If someone is so busy yelling that they won't listen, I continue to have hope that they will eventually tire themselves out enough to hear what I'm saying. But if what I'm saying is attacked by calling me names before listening to my point, then I'm pretty much going to ignore what they say afterwards. That doesn't mean I've given up. It just means that the time is not yet ripened and I'll wait some more. Who is calling you names? Really? Subtle attacks, still attacks, and will be read as such. Its also not effective to not listen and say, well i would be open to honest debate, but I'm being called names, and so i just can't, and you are just as bad, and.. fuck it. *sigh* Read into my statement what you like. I don't see that I claimed anyone here, at this time, on this topic, in this thread, is calling or has called me names. On other threads, yes. On other sites, yes. In real life, yes. If someone has been reduced to calling me names, then there is no debate. That is nothing but proselytizing, ranting or bullying, which is not debate or discussion. When that is the case, then what is there to listen to? I find it more beneficial to just wait and attempt to have a discussion at a later time. It's kind of like situations where DH blows up at something. He's not going to listen to anything while he's ranting, but he will listen later when he's calmed down. If you want to label my post as a subtle attack, that's up to you. You are the one who is putting intentions into my posting that are not meant and that's your problem, not mine.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 13:00:53 GMT -5
lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
but there is scientific research showing gender is fluid and it's more than the naughty bits between your legs.
In the meantime, I'm willing to make reasonable accomodations until we figure that out. And it doesn't include turning locker rooms into a free for all.
But I have to say, the whole locker room thing seems really overblown to me. I don't get naked in a locker room too often. Usually only after open swim at HS in the winter. Once in a while at the city pool if I'm going somewhere other than home after swimming.
Bathrooms generally have a stall. I don't care who is doing what in the stall next to me. I'm sure we've all been peeing with transgender people for years before it became an issue.
If it isn't that big of a deal then it should be no problem with people using the bathroom based on their naughty bits. It is a big deal to me and many people I know IRL. I get it that some people don't care but there are plenty of us that do care.
My bf mother claims to be liberal and she was all for people using whatever locker room they identify with...until bf said to her "so you would be ok with 16 year old boys being in the locker room with your granddaughter??"...suddenly she wasn't in favor of the idea
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 13:02:09 GMT -5
Who is calling you names? Really? Subtle attacks, still attacks, and will be read as such. Its also not effective to not listen and say, well i would be open to honest debate, but I'm being called names, and so i just can't, and you are just as bad, and.. fuck it. *sigh* Read into my statement what you like. I don't see that I claimed anyone here, at this time, on this topic, in this thread, is calling or has called me names. On other threads, yes. On other sites, yes. In real life, yes. If someone has been reduced to calling me names, then there is no debate. That is nothing but proselytizing, ranting or bullying, which is not debate or discussion. When that is the case, then what is there to listen to? I find it more beneficial to just wait and attempt to have a discussion at a later time. It's kind of like situations where DH blows up at something. He's not going to listen to anything while he's ranting, but he will listen later when he's calmed down. If you want to label my post as a subtle attack, that's up to you. You are the one who is putting intentions into my posting that are not meant and that's your problem, not mine. you only hear what you want to hear
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 13:12:12 GMT -5
but there is scientific research showing gender is fluid and it's more than the naughty bits between your legs.
In the meantime, I'm willing to make reasonable accomodations until we figure that out. And it doesn't include turning locker rooms into a free for all.
But I have to say, the whole locker room thing seems really overblown to me. I don't get naked in a locker room too often. Usually only after open swim at HS in the winter. Once in a while at the city pool if I'm going somewhere other than home after swimming.
Bathrooms generally have a stall. I don't care who is doing what in the stall next to me. I'm sure we've all been peeing with transgender people for years before it became an issue.
If it isn't that big of a deal then it should be no problem with people using the bathroom based on their naughty bits. It is a big deal to me and many people I know IRL. I get it that some people don't care but there are plenty of us that do care.
My bf mother claims to be liberal and she was all for people using whatever locker room they identify with...until bf said to her "so you would be ok with 16 year old boys being in the locker room with your granddaughter??"...suddenly she wasn't in favor of the idea
I'm generally not OK with the lockerroom thing either.
The gist of the post was that research is pointing to the fact that gender is fluid, not static like previously thought. I am saying that to rebut the statement that you are willing to listen. but then said your gender is reflected in your parts. I am listening to your concerns and agree with some of them. I get that you're uncomfortable with co-ed bathrooms, but I'm pointing out that trans people have been using the bathroom they identify with for years and nobody really said much.
I personally like how Europe does it. Unisex bathrooms with stalls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 13:12:31 GMT -5
No. I don't actually. I'm just much less willing to listen at the moment. I still hear it all. I still constantly try to search out options and alternatives in my head, because its how I'm wired. Its why currently things are such a struggle. Because i really, really want to stop. I really really want to just become what the other side has been telling me forever i am and just say fuck it all to bits... lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
Lets see if i can get our positions down. You think if you are born with a penis you are a man and the only solution is you use a men's bathroom and locker room, if you were born without one you are a woman and use a women's bathroom and locker room. My position: Its always a challenging time when science and society progress in non traditional ways and we have to adapt to them. Short term and long term what we need might vary and might be addressed in a variety of ways. I am most likely to support a hybrid approach to bathrooms. At the Cliffs of Mohr there were large easily accessible unisex bathrooms, and a set of individual bathrooms near the back where those who didn't want to use unisex could go, and it seemed to work. My mom used those, the rest of us used the unisex. I've been to concerts where one set it unisex and my grandmother uses them, but i notice other people prefer not to, and might wait a little longer, but that works. I personally like the all cubicle approach, or the switching most bathrooms to unisex or gendered, as you define it for yourself, and then using some stalls for those who want to ensure privacy. I think several mixes of available facilities could work however. Contrary to stated opinions i am especially for there being options in schools... if attendance is mandatory there is an increased responsiblity to make sure all parties have options available to them with which they are comfortable. Locker rooms, well I'd like that talk to begin with rethinking the entire approach to locker rooms, becaue i think harm was done to me just having to communally dress and shower with the same gender. I absoluatley hate it. Three years ago in Iceland when I went to change at the public pool i had to wait for one of the few indivdiual changing/showering booths. This past year i noticed almost all of the showers and changing booths were private... I'm guessing thats because of tourists? But maybe not. I'd love to also see changing locker rooms that were more of an indivdiual stall type thing. Personally, i think this will become less of an issue for some as more people are raised in co ed situations. I know my kids don't have near as many nudity hang ups as i do and as far as gender, thats a lot more fluid and there are many fewer lines among them and their friends, but the solutions we atttempt to find in the short term will need to take into account the nature of our current reality. I do like to hear from people who have experiences or personal ideas that might forward the discussion towards viable solutions.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 13:14:33 GMT -5
If it isn't that big of a deal then it should be no problem with people using the bathroom based on their naughty bits. It is a big deal to me and many people I know IRL. I get it that some people don't care but there are plenty of us that do care.
My bf mother claims to be liberal and she was all for people using whatever locker room they identify with...until bf said to her "so you would be ok with 16 year old boys being in the locker room with your granddaughter??"...suddenly she wasn't in favor of the idea
I'm generally not OK with the lockerroom thing either.
The gist of the post was that research is pointing to the fact that gender is fluid, not static like previously thought. I am saying that to rebut the statement that you are willing to listen. but then said your gender is reflected in your parts. I am listening to your concerns and agree with some of them. I get that you're uncomfortable with co-ed bathrooms, but I'm pointing out that trans people have been using the bathroom they identify with for years and nobody really said much.
I personally like how Europe does it. Unisex bathrooms with stalls.
I am willing to listen but that doesn't mean I have to agree. I can say that I identify as whatever I want but that doesn't make it true. Medical opinions ebb and flow so I take the current opinion with a grain of salt.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 13:19:35 GMT -5
lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
Lets see if i can get our positions down. You think if you are born with a penis you are a man and the only solution is you use a men's bathroom and locker room, if you were born without one you are a woman and use a women's bathroom and locker room. My position: Its always a challenging time when science and society progress in non traditional ways and we have to adapt to them. Short term and long term what we need might vary and might be addressed in a variety of ways. I am most likely to support a hybrid approach to bathrooms. At the Cliffs of Mohr there were large easily accessible unisex bathrooms, and a set of individual bathrooms near the back where those who didn't want to use unisex could go, and it seemed to work. My mom used those, the rest of us used the unisex. I've been to concerts where one set it unisex and my grandmother uses them, but i notice other people prefer not to, and might wait a little longer, but that works. I personally like the all cubicle approach, or the switching most bathrooms to unisex or gendered, as you define it for yourself, and then using some stalls for those who want to ensure privacy. I think several mixes of available facilities could work however. Contrary to stated opinions i am especially for there being options in schools... if attendance is mandatory there is an increased responsiblity to make sure all parties have options available to them with which they are comfortable. Locker rooms, well I'd like that talk to begin with rethinking the entire approach to locker rooms, becaue i think harm was done to me just having to communally dress and shower with the same gender. I absoluatley hate it. Three years ago in Iceland when I went to change at the public pool i had to wait for one of the few indivdiual changing/showering booths. This past year i noticed almost all of the showers and changing booths were private... I'm guessing thats because of tourists? But maybe not. I'd love to also see changing locker rooms that were more of an indivdiual stall type thing. Personally, i think this will become less of an issue for some as more people are raised in co ed situations. I know my kids don't have near as many nudity hang ups as i do and as far as gender, thats a lot more fluid and there are many fewer lines among them and their friends, but the solutions we atttempt to find in the short term will need to take into account the nature of our current reality. I do like to hear from people who have experiences or personal ideas that might forward the discussion towards viable solutions. And I have no problem if a business wants to incur the expense to make a unisex room for those who don't want to use the locker room that aligns with their naughty parts. But I also don't think it is fair for business to have to incur large expenses for such a small % of the population. Especially very small business. If a transgender person doesn't like that ABC company doesn't have a unisex bathroom/locker room they are free to go to a company that did incur the costs.
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buystoys
Junior Associate
Joined: Mar 30, 2012 4:58:12 GMT -5
Posts: 5,650
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Post by buystoys on Jun 29, 2017 13:24:43 GMT -5
lol...actually you are rather arrogant to tell those of us that don't agree with you that we don't listen. I get it. You think you are right and obviously those of us that don't agree with your "compromises" just don't listen, dammit. Or we are just stupid because you are so freaking awesome that your ideas should be embraced by all!
It would be comical if you didn't actually believe it.
Lets see if i can get our positions down. You think if you are born with a penis you are a man and the only solution is you use a men's bathroom and locker room, if you were born without one you are a woman and use a women's bathroom and locker room. My position: Its always a challenging time when science and society progress in non traditional ways and we have to adapt to them. Short term and long term what we need might vary and might be addressed in a variety of ways. I am most likely to support a hybrid approach to bathrooms. At the Cliffs of Mohr there were large easily accessible unisex bathrooms, and a set of individual bathrooms near the back where those who didn't want to use unisex could go, and it seemed to work. My mom used those, the rest of us used the unisex. I've been to concerts where one set it unisex and my grandmother uses them, but i notice other people prefer not to, and might wait a little longer, but that works. I personally like the all cubicle approach, or the switching most bathrooms to unisex or gendered, as you define it for yourself, and then using some stalls for those who want to ensure privacy. I think several mixes of available facilities could work however. Contrary to stated opinions i am especially for there being options in schools... if attendance is mandatory there is an increased responsiblity to make sure all parties have options available to them with which they are comfortable. Locker rooms, well I'd like that talk to begin with rethinking the entire approach to locker rooms, becaue i think harm was done to me just having to communally dress and shower with the same gender. I absoluatley hate it. Three years ago in Iceland when I went to change at the public pool i had to wait for one of the few indivdiual changing/showering booths. This past year i noticed almost all of the showers and changing booths were private... I'm guessing thats because of tourists? But maybe not. I'd love to also see changing locker rooms that were more of an indivdiual stall type thing. Personally, i think this will become less of an issue for some as more people are raised in co ed situations. I know my kids don't have near as many nudity hang ups as i do and as far as gender, thats a lot more fluid and there are many fewer lines among them and their friends, but the solutions we atttempt to find in the short term will need to take into account the nature of our current reality. I do like to hear from people who have experiences or personal ideas that might forward the discussion towards viable solutions. I agree completely with the bolded. I've never been in any locker rooms that had changing stalls and I have always hated the need to change in front of others, even if they are the same sex as I am. I think if there was a hybrid approach to bathrooms and more privacy overall in locker rooms, then many people wouldn't have so many complaints with the issue today. It hasn't bothered me to use unisex bathrooms where my privacy was ensured. My concern with just switching everything over to a new label is that I also want business/schools/venues/etc. to ensure each person's privacy if they are going to do that. If they will, then go for it.
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 14:27:17 GMT -5
Is there anyone who really likes getting naked in a locker room?
I think we need to regulate that more than we regulate who can see whose naughty bits. People who want to get naked in front of strangers are the weirdos.
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Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 29, 2017 14:28:46 GMT -5
Is there anyone who really likes getting naked in a locker room?
I think we need to regulate that more than we regulate who can see whose naughty bits. People who want to get naked in front of strangers are the weirdos. LOL! But I do remember several posters saying changing in a group setting was no big deal (in one of the other arguments we had about this). I KNEW there was something wrong with them
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swamp
Community Leader
THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,622
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Post by swamp on Jun 29, 2017 14:31:50 GMT -5
I don't think it's a big deal, but it's not what I would choose to do.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 15, 2024 5:29:44 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 14:36:42 GMT -5
Personally, I'd rather be in a room full of naked men than women, but that's just me...
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 29, 2017 14:42:00 GMT -5
Is there anyone who really likes getting naked in a locker room?
I think we need to regulate that more than we regulate who can see whose naughty bits. People who want to get naked in front of strangers are the weirdos. It's not a question of LIKING or DISLIKING it. It just doesn't bother me, one way or the other.
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ken a.k.a OMK
Senior Associate
They killed Kenny, the bastards.
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 14:39:20 GMT -5
Posts: 14,240
Location: Maryland
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jun 29, 2017 14:42:25 GMT -5
From a male perspective, getting naked in a dressing room means keeping your eyes up and showering or changing as quickly as possible. The guys parading around naked are showing off above average parts. Maybe we should compliment them. BTW in the Navy they had a saying "don't bend over to pick up the soap."
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movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,386
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Post by movingforward on Jun 29, 2017 14:42:29 GMT -5
I don't mind listening and understanding. But any debate that ends with legislation that allows you to live the way you feel is in line with your rights and beliefs, and denies me the ability to live the way i feel is in line with my rights and beliefs... is not about a conversation. The problem is also defining the middle. I tend to find anyone being allowed to do what they want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, equality under the law, etc. to be middle ground. So, to me, abortion extremes are You WILL NOT get one. And You MUST get one. With the middle being everyone free to make their own decisions about what works for them. ie. You believe it is morally reprehensible to have an abortion. I believe it is morally reprehensible to willingly and knowingly tether a soul to a body ravaged by disease or disorder. We can both listen to one another, and i can understand your point of view, and why you make your decision, even if i don't agree with it... But if you change the law so that only one of us can act as we see right and moral, then that isn't about a discussion. Well said
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