zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 24, 2014 7:44:42 GMT -5
I'd mention a placement where there's no pets as well.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Nov 24, 2014 11:10:55 GMT -5
Please let me be clear. I do NOT think Mini Wheat is going to purposefully grab one of the dogs and hurt them. When anyone else is home, I have no concerns.
However, he is not good at handling frustration. Frustration turns into violent action for him (and not necessarily violence directed at a person or thing). Larry likes to bark. Larry's barking often frustrates Mini Wheat. When we are home to deal with it, we deal with it.
My concern is that if left home alone, Mini Wheat might get very frustrated with Larry's barking, and in his frustration, his attempt to deal with it could leave Larry injured. I do not believe it would be a purposeful event. Mini Wheat certainly wouldn't see himself as having intentionally hurt Larry (and if it were one of the dogs he accidentally hurt, instead of Pop Tart, he might actually be sorry). But it would still end up with a possibly injured Larry dog.
I do not believe I need a "safety" plan for the dogs, beyond not leaving Mini Wheat home alone. I do not believe he needs to go to a home with no pets, and I think pets may actually be good for him. (He adores Junebug, I have no concerns about him with Junebug, even though she can be frustrating, too. Though, funny enough, Junebug is much more likely to defend herself than Larry. She will bite you if you hurt her. Larry won't.)
What we will recommend is that he be supervised around pets. And given some of his previous history with a family cat (which is the thing that probably would of had us saying "no" if we'd known about it before hand), it's a reasonable recommendation.
Again, I don't believe he would ever be out to intentionally hurt an animal. He just has very poor impulse control when he's frustrated/angry.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 24, 2014 12:11:32 GMT -5
I actually figured that it was more of an impulse/frustration thing, not like you were thinking he would maliciously hurt the animals. But either way, sounds like you've got a good handle on the situation. I feel for you. I hope that things go okay. What do you think his chances are of being told what's going on before the holidays? Because I could imagine it being very excruciating for all of you if he knew that he was just a "guest" for this holiday, but he was also taking part in all of the "family" stuff. On the other hand, you wouldn't want to start involving him in family traditions if you knew he wasn't staying Very tough either way. Also, does Pop Tart find out at the same time he does or are you telling her in advance? (Let me know if I'm being too intrusive.)
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 24, 2014 13:03:28 GMT -5
I'd worry that Pop Tart would say something to him, if she knew, probably on the fly too.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Nov 24, 2014 14:12:56 GMT -5
C and I have made the decision that while he is in our house, he is part of our family. Just because we do not believe we are the right long term home for him does not give us the right to "check out" on him, to make him feel like a guest in the only home he has. We are acting on the assumption he will be with us for the holidays and are setting our present buying budgets as completely equal for both kids.
Unless his therapist instructs us otherwise, we will not be telling Mini Wheat anything until a change is ready to be made. (And who knows, we may not be the ones to tell him. It may be that a social worker comes to our house to gather all of his things, then goes to get him from school and is the one to tell him.) Pop Tart will know nothing until either after Mini Wheat knows (if we're the ones to tell him) or until he's out of the house, if we're not the ones to tell him.
You guys hear my complaining, and my stress, and I totally appreciate everyone's support in this matter. I just feel like I need to say- Mini Wheat is NOT a bad kid. C and I both totally understand and are incredibly sympathetic to his issues. We just aren't the right people to help him get past those issues. We don't have the skill set, and on some level, our family set up is wrong. Coming from being an only child for 11+ years to suddenly having a sibling who is only a month apart from you is age would be hard for the most well adjusted child. We like him. We would like to continue to be part of his life. But we aren't the right permanent home for him. And it may be, that given his issues, we won't be able to continue to be part of his life. And that sucks, but our goal is to do what is right for him as much as it is to do what is right for us.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 24, 2014 14:30:00 GMT -5
Hugs for you and C. This has got to be stressful for you both as well as the kids.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Nov 25, 2014 18:08:36 GMT -5
Just sent my parents and brother an email about the situation. I would rather have held off until we had a plan, but I realized that we're at the point where my family will start spending money on Christmas gifts, and I don't want them going overboard on gifts for Mini Wheat since there is a possibility he will be in another home by Christmas. And if he's not in another home by Christmas, we very much want to avoid a 75% Pop Tart, 25% Mini Wheat Christmas, so I also told them we may hold back on giving her gifts from them or spending money from them on her until after he's moved.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 18:11:53 GMT -5
Good plan. I really love that you're treating him as a member of the family for as long as he's there. I know there's no way to control how he will feel about you after he moves on but you guys are being graceful in a very difficult situation.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 18:13:08 GMT -5
How's the Pop Tart / Mini Wheat situation going?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:00:26 GMT -5
I think that's a good plan too.
Shane, I think you are handling this superbly. But I don't understand why you weren't initially given all the pertinent information. You say there was an incident with a family cat and if you had known about it, you might not have taken MW in. Why was this information not given to you in the first place? You have several pets, and social services knew that when they placed MW with you in the first place.
Sorry, but that seems like a GLARING omission on the part of social services. I DO realize they are doing the best they can, they have a lot of work, etc, but still. Maybe if they had placed him in a family with no pets, these "red flags" wouldn't have been an issue, and social services wouldn't now be looking for yet ANOTHER home for MW.
Most of what I know about the world of foster care comes from what I've read on this board, from Later and you. But to me not divulging ANY incident with a family pet seems like a glaring oversight at best, but frankly, more like a glaring lie by omission. Why would they do that, if they're trying to find either a long-term foster family, or even better, a family looking to adopt?! I don't get it. Did they think you wouldn't find out? Wouldn't notice? Wouldn't care? Honestly, I just don't get it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 19:03:16 GMT -5
It was an emergency placement... they were only supposed to have him for the weekend originally. Maybe they didn't have time to get into all the details. Though I do agree that they should have been told given that they have dogs, if the incident was known at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:15:44 GMT -5
Thanks Firebird.
Maybe Social Services needs to make two lists, one of emergency homes willing to foster / adopt WITH pets, and one of emergency homes willing to foster / adopt WITHOUT pets?
Again, dunno. But on some level I'm sort of shocked at how all this has played out ... Shane and C were totally ready to foster and even adopt (as they did for PopTart), but MW wasn't the right fit. And at least PART Of the reason MW wasn't the right fit was because of info that Social Services knew even BEFORE they even placed MW in that home! So there has been a LOT of time and energy spent on this potential match when the info nixing it was right there, available, but undivulged ... Social Services' time, obviously, the people that transported him to his further school district, etc., but above all, Shane's and C's and Pop Tart's and Mini Wheat's.
I freely admit, I am certainly very naive / clueless as to how this all works. But I think I would be pissed off (as well as deeply sad) if I later found out that my family had gone to all those efforts, because crucial info had been withheld from me, info that I thought would have made me decide NOT to take that child in.
Do that often enough, and you suddenly find yourself with a lot fewer potential foster / adoptive homes than you had before.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 19:25:16 GMT -5
Maybe the social worker didn't know about the cat thing either, at the time. Perhaps it came out later. From what shanendoah has said in the past (some of this was on my thread yesterday), emergency placements are really tough. They're last minute and you only have so many homes available. Sometimes the placement coordinators have to make quick decisions based on limited information, just to get the kid a bed. Sometimes they have to call families that aren't even listed as willing to do emergency placement. It sounds like poor Mini Wheat was hanging out in the social services office with a backpack waiting for someone to take him for the night. I don't even know what happens to kids when they can't find an emergency placement in that situation - group home for the night maybe? But anyway, I can see why, late on Friday afternoon, they pretty much had to pull the trigger as soon as they got a "yes we'll take him for the weekend" from shanendoah and C without going into every detail from the kid's history.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Nov 25, 2014 19:28:36 GMT -5
To me, it sounds like the pet issue with MW wasn't know until he had already been placed with Shane & C. They may have found out about it when they interviewed his bio parent(s), friends, neighbors, etc. Shane - Good thoughts are with you, C, MW & Poptart so everyone is "happy" with what happens to MW.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:30:11 GMT -5
Yes, maybe, Firebird. As I've said, I don't know much about how it works.
But between Shane's family offering to take the kid in for a night or a weekend, and adopting him, there is a world. It has been at least 2 months, I think.
Again, dunno.
I don't have an ideal solution. I just wish none of them had to go through this pain of deciding that MW wasn't a good fit.
On some level, this was (or could have been) predictable. That's all I'm saying.
ETA: I do understand that the cat info might have only come up later. But maybe if you're placing a foster child with a family with pets, due diligence should be done earlier?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:34:30 GMT -5
I've reread ...
Yes I could be wrong in assuming they had that info and chose to withhold it, or that there was a lack of information.
But how can you know whether that info wasn't available at the time, or whether it just wasn't shared?
I don't think we have that information.
Either way, it bothers me, whether it's a lack of due diligence or a breakdown in communications or a decision to withhold that info and hope for the best.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 19:36:31 GMT -5
I don't have an ideal solution. I just wish none of them had to go through this. On some level, this was predictable. That's all I'm saying.
It definitely sucks that they're not the right long term placement for him. It would have been nice if he didn't have to make another move. On the other hand, pretty much everything about this situation sucks and at least he's with a good family that cares deeply about his well being and has lots of time to devote to him and is making him feel welcome / part of the family while the social worker figures out a longer term plan.
I'm guessing he's been lacking all of that of late. It's really good that he found a soft place to land with the S/C/PT crew and they don't feel that the dogs are in immediate danger such that they'd have to get MW out of the house right away.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:37:06 GMT -5
@debthaven2 you are talking about one of the biggest problems with fostering. Theoretically there is supposed to be time to meet the child, get all the info then make long term decisions. But the majority of placements become emergency placements so we don't get the info up front. The best we can do in that situation is do our best not to make the next one an emergency placement also, which means not kicking the kid out on the spur of the moment.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 19:38:47 GMT -5
I've reread ... How can you know whether that info wasn't available at the time, or whether it just wasn't shared? Oh, I don't. I just figured it was a possibility. Shanendoah didn't say they actually withheld the information, only that she and C weren't told about it. I thought maybe it was because the social worker didn't know. I want to believe if they had information about him being inappropriate with pets, they wouldn't have assigned him (even temporarily) to a home with pets. I would like to believe that either they didn't know or they didn't realize the significance of whatever happened. I don't know much about this process either I've learned a lot in the last couple of days.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:41:17 GMT -5
Thanks Later. But again, between the emergency placement and (whatever time) hopefully the info would have been given in a timely fashion. Now, what is a timely fashion?! Maybe a week? Two weeks? Certainly not 6-8 weeks, IMO. (I'm not sure when Shan started this thread but I'm guessing it was about 6-8 weeks ago). ETA: I just checked when Shane started this thread. Oct 14, so 6-7 weeks ago.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 19:47:45 GMT -5
Sorry I need to go to bed now!
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 25, 2014 19:54:12 GMT -5
I.think you guys are wonderful taking kids in and treating them as your own. There should be more people in the world like you.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Nov 25, 2014 19:56:00 GMT -5
shanendoah, just out of curiosity do you guys have an idea of how many kids you ultimately want? Do you have a preference on age for a second child now that you've had the experience of having one close in age to Pop Tart?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 25, 2014 21:37:24 GMT -5
Also too, do you guys put restrictions on ages and genders? I know you said that you have had Pop Tart (a girl) as well as other biological children if I recall correctly. Do you at some times think that you should be cautious of what age children and what genders should be under your roof? I am not trying to cause unnecessary discussions or judgment, I am really interested in the answer. I have never taken in fosters before. I have taken in some "down on their luck kids", but they have always been my girls' friends who have also always been girls.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Nov 25, 2014 21:55:36 GMT -5
Shane and C do not have any biological children by choice. They received Pop Tart as a foster to adopt, in which she was adopted a year ago. Mini Wheat is a "new" foster from about 6 weeks ago or so.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 22:04:30 GMT -5
Shane, i just wanted to tell you how much i admire how you handle things from adoption to job search. I hope you find the best fit for your family soon and MW finds a suitable and loving family for him.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Nov 26, 2014 1:29:10 GMT -5
It's late. It's been a rough night. Let's see if I can answer all the questions.
Firebird - the MW/PT situation isn't exactly good. MW bullies PT. He gets in trouble for it pretty much every day. I think that, more than anything else, has been C's breaking point. Again, we understand that this is a difficult situation for him, but it really points to the fact that we are not right for him, not just that he isn't right for us. Our goal is 2 total kids, though we are open to the idea of a sibling placement- so we could end up at 3 total kids.
andi9899 - when our roommate was still living with us, our restriction was that we could only get another girl, because she would have to share a room with Pop Tart. We won't be restricting our search to only girls after this. C would really like someone who is more interested in Legos than Barbies. Right now, our license is for kids from 0-15. We did make the decision not to long ago that we are NOT going to adopt an infant. So our personal age restrictions are now along the lines of 2 or 3 to 15. I think we'll remain open to kids in those age ranges, but perhaps be more mindful of how kids close in age may interact. As taz157 mentioned (thanks for helping out), Pop Tart is our only child. Her adoption was finalized one year ago (we just celebrated the anniversary).
@debthaven2 - This was an emergency placement, on a Friday evening, when they needed to find a bed for a kid who had been brought into care that afternoon. No one had any information about him as this was his first ever contact with DSHS. And given how late in the day it was, while they got in requests for medical records (physical and mental health), no one got those until the next week. I may have learned about the cat incident before the social worker did, as we were forwarded the records as soon as they arrived, and we looked at them as soon as we got them. I don't know when the social workers had a chance to look at them.
Please know an emergency placement is usually for 72 hours. We agreed to remain a resource before we got all the information. That wasn't the social workers not sharing, it was us making the decision. The likelihood that we make a similar decision again is very low - low that we'll take an emergency placement, pretty non-existent that we'll agree to a longer than 72 hour emergency placement.
Emotionally, this has been a very rough placement for us. It is, in fact, making us wonder if we should adopt a second child. We don't know if the issues are simply this placement or are also "us". We remember how bad things were when Pop Tart first came, and we wonder if we can go through that again.
Though, to make things a little easier, Mini Wheat decided tonight that he wanted to ask for a new placement. Now, he wants a new placement within five blocks of his school (or at least in his current school district), and he knows the chances are low. But as we said to him, chances of staying in his school if he stayed with us are 0, at least where next year is concerned, so at least going elsewhere there's some chance. When we were talking about it in the car (just he and I), I mentioned that we knew he was unhappy. I knew he liked C and I, but didn't like Pop Tart, that he liked Junebug but not Larry. He didn't dispute any of that. I sent the email about that conversation off to his social worker this evening (after hours), and have told MW that the SW won't be able to act on it until after Thanksgiving, that he should expect it to be 2 weeks to 2 months before he has a new placement (because that's the timeline we gave the SW for getting him a new placement).
But we did make clear in talking to him that while he's here, he's treated as part of the family, and that means following family rules, that means us making him do his homework, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 2:48:53 GMT -5
Shan thanks for explaining about the 72h. I'm sorry it's been so difficult for all of you. I'm glad that MW has decided on his own that he'd rather have a new placement. I'm sure that was both a relief to hear, and bittersweet.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Nov 26, 2014 6:18:27 GMT -5
Shan thanks for explaining about the 72h. I'm sorry it's been so difficult for all of you. I'm glad that MW has decided on his own that he'd rather have a new placement. I'm sure that was both a relief to hear, and bittersweet. Yeah that. For MW, I'm glad he felt comfortable enough to tell you what he told you. This has to he unbelievable hard on him. At the beginning of the year, he's with his family. By the end, he's in foster care through no fault of his own (from what I understand). I just want to give everyone a big hug. Good thoughts are headed everyone's way. Shane - No problem with the help. I'm glad I could.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 26, 2014 10:03:03 GMT -5
Shanen - I think it would be very hard for a child to immediately be in the foster care system to be in a position where they are emotionally ready to be in a foster to adopt by someone else. I think that emotionally for him, that having a sort of transition home to have his world completely shaken up would be better. I admire what you are doing and how you go about it. In all these very emotional decisions - from job hunting to fostering-to-adopt, you have shown to be rational, compassionate, and cool underfire. I admire that greatly about you. (Can I be you when I grow up? )
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