raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 7, 2014 14:18:17 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been covered, but I expect people to treat me (and others) with courtesy and respect. That can mean opening/holding a door for someone, giving up a seat on the bus for someone who looks like they need it more than I do, pulling out chairs for my nearing 100 year old grandparents, etc. None of that should be tied to gender, and truthfully isn't in my world. I can only think of one man who goes out of his way to do the chivalrous thing. Elevators can get a bit weird with everyone waiting for someone else to exit first, so I've solved that by just bolting as soon as the door opens.
If I were dating someone I like to think that we would both be more attuned to being courteous and helpful to each other. But I'm married, so if we get through the day without killing each other its pretty much a win.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 7, 2014 15:16:32 GMT -5
... If somebody else who understands what I'm trying to say could translate it into non obtuse language I'd appreciate it, because I really don't see how to simplify it anymore. Sorry, it can't be me. I hate women and have a chip on my shoulder for attempting to state it in the way that I can.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 15:44:59 GMT -5
... If somebody else who understands what I'm trying to say could translate it into non obtuse language I'd appreciate it, because I really don't see how to simplify it anymore. Sorry, it can't be me. I hate women and have a chip on my shoulder for attempting to state it in the way that I can. You and I have responded to each other's posts in a couple of threads concerning male/female interactions or whatnot and although we've had different viewpoints, I hope nothing I've written has implied that I thought you hate women and have a chip on your shoulder.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 7, 2014 15:48:57 GMT -5
I really don't see the difficulty in all this. My late husband, as I said, was German (although born here in the US). Chivalry, for him, was definitely not dead because that's the way he was raised. It would have been judgmental and thoughtless of me to have objected loudly every time he opened a door, or pulled out my chair. He wasn't insulting my ability to do those things. He was simply doing what he believed to be proper. I adapted. He was not the kind of man to go to work, come home, and expect me to do everything for him, either. He contributed equally around the home and I worked most of the years we were married. It just wasn't a problem for us. We learned about one another and we adapted as needed to respect each others needs, beliefs, and ideals. Where's the problem in that? I'm honestly having trouble seeing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 17:18:51 GMT -5
A guest menu is given to a non-member at a private establishment at which the non-member is only allowed to be due to an invitation from a member. A Ladies' Menu is given to a person of a particular gender at a public establishment. Same thing? If so, what "establishment" are women not a member of? It's the same to me because I wouldn't take either situation to be an insult on my intelligence or an insinuation that I can't or shouldn't be concerned with money. If I was in a situation where I got a ladies menu and needed to know the prices I would ask to switch menus with whoever I was at dinner with or ask them the prices. I wouldn't make a scene over it or l et it ruin my life.LOL! Ruin a life is pretty extreme. But suppose you're in a family group of 4. All males including the young children get full menus. You as an adult mother get a truncated menu with your gender written across the front. That does seem to me to be an insinuation that women should not be concerned about money and males of all ages should be. Honestly I'm fairly quiet. I figure I'll just do what seems logical. DH was raised with with an eye towards traditional christian ideals and knows all the old forms of showy courtesy. Stuff like that gets noted by me, but I view it as mostly impractical puffing in day to day life. It's tolerated fine, but I'd rather move efficiently and in teams. I will do what's needed to assist people, and DH has settled on my style. We both help each other carry groceries, we both help each other carry luggage. If a either man or woman is struggling with a heavy load, we'll ask if we can help. We hold doors for people behind us whoever they are for easy flow. DH is super generous and a sweetie pie, we just don't do old shows of courtesy. There's immediate reasons, like if one is cleaning or doing yard work the other will will come over and start to help too to keep company. We like that generalized style of courtesy. I figure if someone wants to do shows of courtesy, they can if they want. It's just not my thing. I also think that some guys push the "gentleman" thing too far, and will insist on their ideas even if it causes clear unhappiness to the person they're supposed to be helping. Younger sis LOVES to be in motion and helping people. She has a massive surplus of energy and hates to be still. The number of guys who stop her in the middle of projects she's already half way completed, insisting that the can only do light work... it clearly isn't pleasant for her, but they absolutely think it must be that way. I find that to be odd. Why not just join her and all get it done faster? Why stop her from carrying boxes when she was clearly doing well and was happy to help? So mixed thoughts for the most part. Couples can do what works for them and what they enjoy. I like flexibility and if someone reaalllly wants to do the gentleman thing, okay. But I'd prefer they do dishes or help me think through a project instead. At a family restaurant dinner I would not appreciate being the only person who gets an incomplete menu based clearly on gender though, when even my kids would get the full sets. That seems frankly impractical to me.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 7, 2014 17:34:21 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been covered, but I expect people to treat me (and others) with courtesy and respect. That can mean opening/holding a door for someone, giving up a seat on the bus for someone who looks like they need it more than I do, pulling out chairs for my nearing 100 year old grandparents, etc. None of that should be tied to gender, and truthfully isn't in my world. I can only think of one man who goes out of his way to do the chivalrous thing. Elevators can get a bit weird with everyone waiting for someone else to exit first, so I've solved that by just bolting as soon as the door opens. If I were dating someone I like to think that we would both be more attuned to being courteous and helpful to each other. But I'm married, so if we get through the day without killing each other its pretty much a win. That's DH and I most of the time. I've been the primary income earning person. He's been the primary earning person. I cook on the grill. He will cook on the grill but prefers that I do it so I do most of it. He does most of the shopping but I do some too if I absolutely HAVE to. Bleh! He's better at it than I am with the coupons and comparative shopping. I'm a grab and go and sometimes grab the wrong thing. I used to do most of the fertilizing and bug treatments for the yard, most gardening, pruning and weed pulling. Lately he's been doing the fertilizing and bug stuff. I will hold the door for anybody who is around me when entering or exiting a building man or woman or child. DH, ummmm, he's not very quick about things and is always thinking about God knows what but if he is paying attention he'll do it too. Regardless of what needs to be done we have our preferences and have switched it up through the years. But I still like being treated like a woman and I still like him being the bigger stronger man doing the gentlemanly things that they do and the man things too like climbing up high ladders trimming our Palms or doing stuff on the roof. Even if I have to smack him now and then to get my damn door but that's mostly because he's so slow and I'm usually to the building before he even gets out of the vehicle. I'm impatient and always in a hurry and usually get my own door but when we are dressed up or doing something romantical I want him to be romantical! I very much like the traditional gender things still. A man being a man does not mean they get paid more than a woman for doing the same job or that they are out killing dinner or dragging me by my hair to their bed. But I do like the civilized gender things to remain at least now and then and when I say it's ok.
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quince
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Post by quince on Oct 7, 2014 18:31:08 GMT -5
If woman wants to be paid the same and given equal access, but also speaks badly of men who don't pay by default, open doors for physically capable females who get there first, and are not the primary breadwinner...that's the problem. "Equal access, but special treatment" is nonsense.
It's fine to expect equal rights and ENJOY little archaic courtesies. I think it's fine if a woman won't be in a relationship with a man who won't do those "chivalrous" things, or even won't be in a relationship with a man who doesn't make the bulk of the money. That's FINE. What is not fine is tsking at men who don't adhere to those standards, waiting and expecting all men you eat out with to pay for your dinner, tapping your foot in front of the door waiting for someone to open it...and other such behaviors. Fine to enjoy the courtesies, I do not believe it is fine to expect them.
Just like it's OK for a guy to want to marry a woman who shaves/waxes, wears make-up and heels, does the bulk of the household chores. NOT OK to insult women who do not do those things, or to expect all women to behave in such a fashion.
It's also perfectly fine for a fellow to pay for his female date on a night out, or for a couple to default to that scenario. NOT FINE for an institution to treat every female who walks in the door as though she doesn't deserve all the information when making her ordering decisions, or to treat every male that walks in the door as the default bill-payer.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 7, 2014 19:17:58 GMT -5
Sorry, it can't be me. I hate women and have a chip on my shoulder for attempting to state it in the way that I can. You and I have responded to each other's posts in a couple of threads concerning male/female interactions or whatnot and although we've had different viewpoints, I hope nothing I've written has implied that I thought you hate women and have a chip on your shoulder. I have taken nothing that you have posted as implying anything other than honest disagreement on a difficult topic. There was not implication in what I was referencing. It was explicit.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 7, 2014 19:28:56 GMT -5
I'm sure this has been covered, but I expect people to treat me (and others) with courtesy and respect. That can mean opening/holding a door for someone, giving up a seat on the bus for someone who looks like they need it more than I do, pulling out chairs for my nearing 100 year old grandparents, etc. None of that should be tied to gender, and truthfully isn't in my world. I can only think of one man who goes out of his way to do the chivalrous thing. Elevators can get a bit weird with everyone waiting for someone else to exit first, so I've solved that by just bolting as soon as the door opens. If I were dating someone I like to think that we would both be more attuned to being courteous and helpful to each other. But I'm married, so if we get through the day without killing each other its pretty much a win. I was going to mention those very thoughts. But my laptop battery was dead and DH wasn't home to plug it in for me.. LOL!!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 19:29:17 GMT -5
If woman wants to be paid the same and given equal access, but also speaks badly of men who don't pay by default, open doors for physically capable females who get there first, and are not the primary breadwinner...that's the problem. "Equal access, but special treatment" is nonsense. It's fine to expect equal rights and ENJOY little archaic courtesies. I think it's fine if a woman won't be in a relationship with a man who won't do those "chivalrous" things, or even won't be in a relationship with a man who doesn't make the bulk of the money. That's FINE. What is not fine is tsking at men who don't adhere to those standards, waiting and expecting all men you eat out with to pay for your dinner, tapping your foot in front of the door waiting for someone to open it...and other such behaviors. Fine to enjoy the courtesies, I do not believe it is fine to expect them. Just like it's OK for a guy to want to marry a woman who shaves/waxes, wears make-up and heels, does the bulk of the household chores. NOT OK to insult women who do not do those things, or to expect all women to behave in such a fashion. It's also perfectly fine for a fellow to pay for his female date on a night out, or for a couple to default to that scenario. NOT FINE for an institution to treat every female who walks in the door as though she doesn't deserve all the information when making her ordering decisions, or to treat every male that walks in the door as the default bill-payer. I agree. If only I could have articulated my thoughts so clearly, maybe it wouldn't have come across as negatively as I feel it did. FWIW, even with my "old fashioned" ideas, I'd be willing to be in a relationship with a man that makes less money than I do. I remember one guy in particular that was obviously less than impressed with the fact that I'm a blue collar worker. The funny thing was that he didn't make much more than my base salry and if I'd worked all the hours he did at his "real job", my yearly income would have been quite a bit more than the salary he was so proud of and hung up on. I didn't bother to clue him in, I didn't want to waste my time with someone that felt I was beneath them because of the color of my "collar".
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 7, 2014 19:51:02 GMT -5
I really don't see the difficulty in all this. My late husband, as I said, was German (although born here in the US). Chivalry, for him, was definitely not dead because that's the way he was raised. It would have been judgmental and thoughtless of me to have objected loudly every time he opened a door, or pulled out my chair. He wasn't insulting my ability to do those things. He was simply doing what he believed to be proper. I adapted. He was not the kind of man to go to work, come home, and expect me to do everything for him, either. He contributed equally around the home and I worked most of the years we were married. It just wasn't a problem for us. We learned about one another and we adapted as needed to respect each others needs, beliefs, and ideals. Where's the problem in that? I'm honestly having trouble seeing it. Raising children, male and female, today with the belief system that males are not fulfilling their necessary function in the universe unless they are providing for and protecting females and offspring is the problem in my opinion. Raising children, male and female, with the belief system that every individual should work to be in a position that they are able to support themselves and any offspring that they bring into the world is what I believe is what should be being done. In addition, raising children, male and female, that they should be respectful and courteous to all other life forms on the planet should also be done. I think that educating children, male and female, about different cultural and historic gender roles that are different than one of pure equality should be done. I think that letting children, male and female, know that they will be free and are encouraged to find another human being who will go along with their desires as far as what roles either gender (or a person of their own gender for that matter) wishes to play should be done. Children, male and female, should also be taught that it is perfectly fine to not find another human being in which to share their life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 19:52:22 GMT -5
You and I have responded to each other's posts in a couple of threads concerning male/female interactions or whatnot and although we've had different viewpoints, I hope nothing I've written has implied that I thought you hate women and have a chip on your shoulder. I have taken nothing that you have posted as implying anything other than honest disagreement on a difficult topic. There was not implication in what I was referencing. It was explicit. Well, I'm pretty sure I haven't explicitly said you hate women and have a chip on your shoulder, so I guess you weren't referring to one of my posts and maybe there was a post I missed. Ummmm, right? Please forgive me for not "getting it". I enjoy our "conversations", differing views and all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 20:39:54 GMT -5
I really don't see the difficulty in all this. My late husband, as I said, was German (although born here in the US). Chivalry, for him, was definitely not dead because that's the way he was raised. It would have been judgmental and thoughtless of me to have objected loudly every time he opened a door, or pulled out my chair. He wasn't insulting my ability to do those things. He was simply doing what he believed to be proper. I adapted. He was not the kind of man to go to work, come home, and expect me to do everything for him, either. He contributed equally around the home and I worked most of the years we were married. It just wasn't a problem for us. We learned about one another and we adapted as needed to respect each others needs, beliefs, and ideals. Where's the problem in that? I'm honestly having trouble seeing it. Raising children, male and female, today with the belief system that males are not fulfilling their necessary function in the universe unless they are providing for and protecting females and offspring is the problem in my opinion. Raising children, male and female, with the belief system that every individual should work to be in a position that they are able to support themselves and any offspring that they bring into the world is what I believe is what should be being done. In addition, raising children, male and female, that they should be respectful and courteous to all other life forms on the planet should also be done. I think that educating children, male and female, about different cultural and historic gender roles that are different than one of pure equality should be done. I think that letting children, male and female, know that they will be free and are encouraged to find another human being who will go along with their desires as far as what roles either gender (or a person of their own gender for that matter) wishes to play should be done. Children, male and female, should also be taught that it is perfectly fine to not find another human being in which to share their life.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 8, 2014 10:40:15 GMT -5
Mixed signals. If they do correlate, then by asking for one (the chivalrous chair pulling, door opening, whatever) you're also inadvertently asking for the other (the unfair treatment at work) because the guys think you really do want to return to the whole thing, from the chair pulling, to the being financially dependent on a man. Which isn't as outlandish as it sounds, since some of the women posting in this thread said verbatim, they want a man that provides. Knowing that they correlate, if indeed they do, might lead more women to rethink just how much they want a door held if it's reinforcing unfair gender bias in employment at the same time. I see this as the male's problem. They are the ones that need to "rethink". Just because a woman appreciates a door opened or chair pulled out (likes, not asks for or expects) does NOT mean she believes she should earn less than a man! That is the errant impression the male is getting, per your example. Also, the door opening and chair pulling are simple ways to see if a man is in general courteous, respectful, has manners, etc. If he does that for a woman and she responds positively, it's generally not literal that she expects that exact behavior. It's a way for her to say to herself, "hey, this guy must've been taught well." That's the way I personally see it anyway.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Oct 8, 2014 16:20:07 GMT -5
I'd just like to state, for the record, that I hate having my chair held.
I think it's awkward and weird.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Oct 8, 2014 16:31:41 GMT -5
I'm shocked, absolutely shocked that this thread has made it through nearly 8 pages. How is it that the PC Police haven't shut it down? MENU How can that word be? Its the 21st century. The word was obviously created by a male with definite chauvinistic tendencies! In the plural no less.....there is/are "men" in menu?? Perish the thought. Quick, we need a gender neutral word here. The DOJ will be opening an investigation...mark my words.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Oct 8, 2014 16:43:24 GMT -5
I'd just like to state, for the record, that I hate having my chair held. I think it's awkward and weird. I also find it extremely awkward and weird if a man tries to order for me. Uh yeah, I a can order my own food thank you very much. That is a serious turnoff to me. As for the door thing... I don't "expect" a man to hold a door for me. I think it is common courtesy for PEOPLE to hold doors for other PEOPLE in certain situations. I have held doors for men and they have held doors for me. I have held doors for other women. Men have held doors for other men. I mean seriously, door holding is really not an issue either way for me. I haven't read this entire thread but the idea of a ladies menu is absolutely ridiculous. What if the lady happens to be paying that evening? I mean seriously - WTF? Just down right stupid... And this is solely just my personal experience but the guys that always insist upon paying, holding chairs, standing up when you leave the table to go to the restroom, etc. in general tend to be part of the good old boys club who think women shouldn't bother their pretty little heads with certain topics of conversation. Like I said, this has only been my personal experience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 17:36:15 GMT -5
Was it a male or female poster who said in this thread that a man's job is to provide? I'll give you a hint, scabbard not sword. Now, let's say she's a manager at a mid size company. She has a few direct reports. She's going to promote one of them. It comes down to a male and female candidate. Is she going to be slightly more inclined to pick the guy because he has a family to support, and in her worldview men are providers, while the woman has a husband to provide for her. Will she consciously think this? Maybe not. Will she subconsciously think this? Maybe. It's not as outlandish as you guys keep making it out to be, by the way. Several studies have found that when you have professionals review the exact same resume with a male and a female name on the top, they view the one with the male name more favorably. Those studies aren't using only men by the way. Other women view women less favorably in those same studies. They've done studies where they had men and women go through mock interviews, same results. The men are found to be more capable, have more leadership qualities, and more respondents said they'd hire them over the female actors who went through the same interview, had the same resume, and answered the questions the same way. Gender bias isn't some weird conspiracy that guys are making up because we don't want to hold doors. But, whatever, ignore it. Insist on being treated like a princess, and bitch about how managers don't take you as seriously as they do your male counterparts who don't insist on being treated like princesses. I'm sure the two are in no way shape or form related. Sure of it. The idea that they might be in some small way related is so absurd it's barely worth thinking about. For the record, the woman that said that men should be able to provide for their families does not believe men should get preference for employment for any reason other than they are the best qualified candidate. This all started because I said that I taught my son that he wouldn't be ready to get married and start a family until/unless he was prepared to be a provider. I don't see what the big deal about that is. Would it have been better to encourage him to go out and find a wife and/or make a bunch of babies and not concern himself with pesky details like how they're going to eat? A few posters on the other boards like to talk about how young black males are troublemakers and not doing anything with their lives but killing people over stupid shit and going to jail over stupid shit, and here is a single Mom saying that she taught her black son that he is suppose to WORK to get what he wants and take care of his responsibilities and it's a huge no-no, a BFD. Are you freaking kidding me? And yes, I taught him to treat ladies with courtesy and respect. I guess I should've told him f*** them b****** instead. The woman that said men should be providers has worked a job for over 16 years where she carries shit that sometimes weighs over half as much as she does and moves equipment around that weighs over 1000lbs....... just like the men do, because that's what she gets paid for. That's my job, all day every day. I do the same backbreaking work, so yessiree, I expect to get the same pay. And guess what, when I spend my workday doing all that, if I go out with a man, it's nice to switch gears and be more feminine and interact like I'm a lady. So shoot me. I left a job where I was sitting on my butt all day, to do what I do now, because I was chasing money and I could make more doing physical labor. I was a single Mom and nobody ever hired me because of that. I don't think that kind of stuff is on the application or ever came up in an interview. I certainly never volunteered that information, because I was smart enough to know that there's a stereotype about single Moms and it could be a strike against me. And you think I'll give a man a break if I could, just because he's a man and has a family? Puh-lease! Nobody made sure I could provide for my kids but me. Remember, I also said women should be able to provide for themselves and take care of their responsibilities too. Let's not forget that part of what I said, please. Having said all that, I don't know how I can be more clear with you that my views on personal interactions between men and women have nothing to do with employment opportunities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 18:10:11 GMT -5
I get that. For reals. Several of you have said the same thing. I get that you don't think the two are related. What I'm saying is that several studies have found that there is a clear gender bias in favor of men in employment situations. Among men and women. That comes from somewhere. There's something in our culture that causes both men and women to view men as better leaders, more qualified, and having more potential, even when they share the exact same resume and experience as a woman. It's a documented reality, not a conspiracy theory. You guys think it's crazy that teaching young people to treat men and women differently would have anything to do with that. I think it's crazy to discount it. Honestly, I think your first paragraph is a whole 'nother subject. A thread we had a couple months ago (maybe?) about whether people prefer male or female bosses immediately popped in my head when I read your post. I'm not discounting that some people that are "old-fashioned" still hold on to both the good and the bad from back in the day. At the same time, I don't think I'm the only one that has some old fashioned ideas, but still recognizes that not everything from the past was gravy. Imo, males and females, generally speaking, ARE different in some ways. Physically, the average man is bigger and/or stronger than the average woman. We tend to see things differently. Is there not some nugget of truth to the thinking that women tend to be more emotional than men? I don't think there's any harm in acknowledging those differences as long as we're clear that "different" doesn't mean superior or inferior. I don't want to be even more controversial than I already have been, so I'll be quiet now. It's been an interesting discussion, to me anyway.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Oct 8, 2014 18:27:44 GMT -5
My wife sometimes orders my food for me. I don't think that is weird. With all those little ones, I wouldn't be surprised if she cut it for you out of habit! DH did that to me once! lol The waitress and I just watched him and didn't say a word, just grinned at each other. I do that for ISO sometimes. He hates to order Mexican food because he never knows what anything is. I select something with prawns and garlic and maybe something with prawns and no garlic then ask him which he wants. I warn him if it has tomatoes and when he gets a salad with a meal I always suggest he get thousand island on the side. We have been together 28 years and I know he only eats thousand island dressing and avoids tomatoes so I help him order. Once he was using a wheel chair and had his right hand in a cast when we went to a steak house with a salad bar. I made his salad for him and when his meat arrived I took his plate and cut his meat. The waitress said she should have thought of that, that would have seemed weird to have them serve steak pre cut.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 8, 2014 20:08:44 GMT -5
Easiest thing in the world. Marry someone who shares your same values.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 20:24:28 GMT -5
"As is "old fashioned and sexist are not the same thing". "
I am a little late but... No they are not the same thing. However some of the old fashioned ideas are sexist, like the ladies menu.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Oct 8, 2014 22:24:19 GMT -5
I do that for ISO sometimes. He hates to order Mexican food because he never knows what anything is. I select something with prawns and garlic and maybe something with prawns and no garlic then ask him which he wants. I warn him if it has tomatoes and when he gets a salad with a meal I always suggest he get thousand island on the side. We have been together 28 years and I know he only eats thousand island dressing and avoids tomatoes so I help him order. Once he was using a wheel chair and had his right hand in a cast when we went to a steak house with a salad bar. I made his salad for him and when his meat arrived I took his plate and cut his meat. The waitress said she should have thought of that, that would have seemed weird to have them serve steak pre cut. I smile every time I see you write ISO. The first time I was lost, and the only thing that came to mind was "In Search Of". Was he in an accident? He's alright now? We went to this same little local diner with the girls quite often. It was not at all a fancy place, but they had wonderful pancakes, and good breakfasts in general. At that time, almost as importantly, they were inexpensive. A very rare Sunday morning breakfast out alone back when I could still have those things, and he was still on Dad pilot. He never even noticed! lol At least it wasn't one of those places with a Ladies Menu! Now I want Mexican food, or prawns and garlic, or pancakes! I know I really wouldn't if I had them, but they sound good at the moment. Nice talking to you. Enjoy your fishing. He was a scrap inspector in a steel plant so in a rail car of scrap when an electro magnet landed on him squished him into the metal scrap the picked him up and dropped him. He broke the company radio so couldn't call anyone so the scrap went to the furnace and the magnet came back for him. Someone saw him and made the crane operator stop. They moved the train out of the yard and got him to the hospital but he was pretty much squished like a bug. His right thumb was pushed into his wrist and his pelvis broken in three places. They put a cast on his hand, not paying attention to it. When they took off the cast they had to do surgery to fix it all the best they could, his thumb is crooked now and sometimes he rubs it like it hurts but he isn't a cry baby. He used a wheel chair for almost two months then refused to take it with him on a trip. He went coyote hunting with the guys walking all day the day after he quit using it. The next day they refused to wake him up to go hunting. He got the last cast off his hand before he could drive again 2.5 months later. I was unemployed so we went places a lot since we were both free of work. He got a mental health issue, fear of rail cars of scrap metal under cranes so he had to change jobs. It was 25 years ago and he is over it as much as he can be, don't think he will ever get in a load of scrap again since he is retired now. His pelvis hurts if he drives on mountain roads that are really rough for many hours.
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greeniis10
Well-Known Member
Joined: May 9, 2012 12:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 1,834
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 9, 2014 11:00:00 GMT -5
Was it a male or female poster who said in this thread that a man's job is to provide? I'll give you a hint, scabbard not sword. Now, let's say she's a manager at a mid size company. She has a few direct reports. She's going to promote one of them. It comes down to a male and female candidate. Is she going to be slightly more inclined to pick the guy because he has a family to support, and in her worldview men are providers, while the woman has a husband to provide for her. Will she consciously think this? Maybe not. Will she subconsciously think this? Maybe. It's not as outlandish as you guys keep making it out to be, by the way. Several studies have found that when you have professionals review the exact same resume with a male and a female name on the top, they view the one with the male name more favorably. Those studies aren't using only men by the way. Other women view women less favorably in those same studies. They've done studies where they had men and women go through mock interviews, same results. The men are found to be more capable, have more leadership qualities, and more respondents said they'd hire them over the female actors who went through the same interview, had the same resume, and answered the questions the same way. Gender bias isn't some weird conspiracy that guys are making up because we don't want to hold doors. But, whatever, ignore it. Insist on being treated like a princess, and bitch about how managers don't take you as seriously as they do your male counterparts who don't insist on being treated like princesses. I'm sure the two are in no way shape or form related. Sure of it. The idea that they might be in some small way related is so absurd it's barely worth thinking about. I agree that unfortunately, gender bias exists. Wish it didn't, but I can't really argue that it does. However, who is it that insists on being treated like princesses?!? Not me. I suppose there are some out there, but honestly, to make that sweeping statement about all women is crazy. Thankfully, I don't have to bitch about how my manager doesn't take me seriously because she does. Because I work hard to deserve it. I'll just let this thread go now. I think I'm being nit-picky.
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tloonya
Junior Associate
What status?
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:22:13 GMT -5
Posts: 8,452
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Post by tloonya on Oct 10, 2014 8:43:10 GMT -5
"I am teaching my sons to be "sexist" to hold doors open for women, to pay for the dates and so forth." Oh...dear! Imagine him coming home punched in a face by some lady who 'can open door herself'... ...or with scars from that bouquet of roses he presented to a lady of his interest...you are walking on the edge and I am not even going to 'paying for her at the restaurant'. It can be dangerous.
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