Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 4, 2014 10:51:55 GMT -5
Technically he didn't insult you. He insulted 'women like you.' And for good reason. Are u a mod? Insult me dont insult my sons.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2014 10:55:06 GMT -5
My thought is "What a great conversation to have with a couple of young males." It is important for them to realize that they need to prepare themselves to deal with the issue of 'man as wallet' that women like Shooby are training. Thats ignorant. Not sure why it is alright for him to insult me? I'm sorry. I did not realize that you would consider that to be an insult based on: Yeah, it's "sexist", who cares? I am teaching my sons to be "sexist" to hold doors open for women, to pay for the dates and so forth. Sheesh.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 4, 2014 10:57:51 GMT -5
If u don't like the Ladies Menu then vote with your feet and go elsewhere or complain to the owner.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Oct 4, 2014 11:01:44 GMT -5
My thought is "What a great conversation to have with a couple of young males." It is important for them to realize that they need to prepare themselves to deal with the issue of 'man as wallet' that women like Shooby are training. Thats ignorant. Not sure why it is alright for him to insult me? He was referring to the pressures society puts on men to pay the bill in places like restaurants. While I don't think men should feel they have to always pick up the check it does kind of come part and parcel with the idea of being a gentlemanly man. So this whole thing is pressuring two different groups of people in totally opposite ways IMO. On the one had it is defacto making milee less than her 10 year old son. I don't think I could have handled that thruthfully. On the other hand it is almost requiring the man to pay the bill. If she doesn't even get a menu with prices on it who on Earth would think she would get the check?? ETA I see billisonboard is online here now so please let me know if I misinterpred your post.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Oct 4, 2014 11:18:57 GMT -5
Thats ignorant. Not sure why it is alright for him to insult me? I'm sorry. I did not realize that you would consider that to be an insult based on: Yeah, it's "sexist", who cares? I am teaching my sons to be "sexist" to hold doors open for women, to pay for the dates and so forth. Sheesh. Its insulting so I reported it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 4, 2014 11:24:02 GMT -5
Technically he didn't insult you. He insulted 'women like you.' And for good reason. Are u a mod? Insult me dont insult my sons. Nobody insulted your sons. I am likely more of a gentleman than you could ever hope to teach them to be, and a "Ladies Menu" is disrespectful to my date. Whether I am paying or not (and I usually do) the thought that prices are beyond her ability to deal with or comprehend is ridiculous. Nor should there any more be an automatic assumption that the man is paying. There is a huge difference between that and a gentleman paying because he wishes to do so.
You have an almost preternatural ability to completely miss or ignore the point in an (usually failed) attempt to make a dig at someone. My digs, on the other hand, are always precisely on point.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Oct 4, 2014 11:32:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry. I did not realize that you would consider that to be an insult based on: Its insulting so I reported it. It was a comment on society and raising sons in the old fashioned ways like your described in your post. So while you have a right to not like it, it isn't a personal attack. 973beachbum moderator
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2014 11:33:26 GMT -5
... While I don't think men should feel they have to always pick up the check it does kind of come part and parcel with the idea of being a gentlemanly man. ... ETA I see billisonboard is online here now so please let me know if I misinterpred your post. Well, maybe not so much the "gentlemanly" thing. In a hunter/gatherer society, the young male places a recent kill at the tent flap of the female he is interested in to demonstrate that she and their offspring will not go hungry if she accepts him as her mate. Now days, when dating for the first couple of times it is "Waiter, I'll take that check - please go out with me again". After marriage it is more, "Waiter, I'll take that check - I hope this puts her in the mood to say yes tonight".
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quince
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Post by quince on Oct 4, 2014 11:42:20 GMT -5
I like the idea of a guest menu. I do hope like hell that in several years when my son is old enough to date the automatic assumption is not that he will be paying because he has a penis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 12:26:50 GMT -5
I like the idea of a guest menu. I do hope like hell that in several years when my son is old enough to date the automatic assumption is not that he will be paying because he has a penis. Totally agreed. And if I'd had a daughter, no way I would have taught her to sit back and expect the guy to pay every time. Certainly it's wonderful if he can do it and he's willing to because he enjoys her company, but what if she makes more money and he fixes her car occasionally? Way back in the last century when DH and I were dating I picked up the check more often than he did because I made twice what he did. Ignoring the old hard-and-fast rules worked well for us. It still does.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 4, 2014 12:39:32 GMT -5
So, does the "regular menu" that they give to men have the prices on it?
I'm not sure why anyone would do that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 13:10:20 GMT -5
So, does the "regular menu" that they give to men have the prices on it?
I'm not sure why anyone would do that. It's the assumption that one is the host and one is the guest and that the man is the host. The latter part is sexist. I like the option of a "guest menu" because if there IS a host, he/she can know that the guest is making choices without worrying about cost. It's not always an accurate assumption: could be opposite-sex coworkers who are out of town on business, both on expense accounts. Could be a married couple, but both equally involved in finances and concerned about managing expenses.
And what does the waiter/waitress do when both diners are female?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 13:17:11 GMT -5
So, does the "regular menu" that they give to men have the prices on it?
I'm not sure why anyone would do that. Yes. The regular menu has prices. It's done in order to relieve the guest of any concern over the cost of the meal she orders. It's old-fashioned, and has never really caught on in this country. As I said earlier, it's more commonly seen in Europe. Here, in general, only the highest end restaurants (and/or those run by Europeans) do this - and very few of those, I'd imagine.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2014 13:42:10 GMT -5
... Certainly it's wonderful if he can do it and he's willing to because he enjoys her company, ... Or enjoys her "company".
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 13:45:48 GMT -5
Let's keep the conversation on the topic under discussion instead of on a poster, please. I had to remove a couple of posts. Thanks. mmhmm - Administrator
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 4, 2014 14:38:39 GMT -5
I'm officially expanding the topic to be whatever one chooses to post. Enjoy.
Milee, OP
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drivingaround
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Post by drivingaround on Oct 4, 2014 14:42:47 GMT -5
DW & I are in reversed roles here. This happened once to us, maybe 10 years ago, in a coastal US resort town. Actually, kind of odd the location but never gave thought to why. Definitely not European influenced. Anyway, DW couldn't stand not knowing prices so we switched menus. I'm much more I get what I want/looks good and don't care about the cost, within reason. If I'm out to dinner and want steak topped with crab than that's what I'm getting. DW is similar to Athena in that she bases her choices off price as long as she is interested with the lower price item. Sometimes I wish she was more free and would base choices off what she truly wants and not to save a couple dollars. In that case a menu without prices might help with that! Her parents also taught her that you never order an entree more expensive than the person paying so I suspect that also influences her needing a menu with prices.
Milee, had you gone to this restaurant before?
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 4, 2014 14:46:01 GMT -5
I've been to plenty of country clubs where I got a "guest" menu. Same idea, and I don't mind. IMHO, that's a little bit of a different situation. At most country clubs, the guest is not able to pay for the meal so the guest is always there at the invite of the host and the host will by definition be paying for the meal. The host can be a man, woman or child - it's just a role that's assumed by the member of the club.
The thing I found odd (and frankly didn't like but wasn't going to choose to make an issue of it at this place) was the assumption that women were always a guest dependent on a man to pay for them and that was the only possible role for a woman.
This is a good insight about guests at a country club. It makes more sense that way. However, they need to ditch the red rose/ladies' menu thing.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 14:53:46 GMT -5
I imagine the restaurant owners will learn, in time, this sort of thing isn't understood here and, therefore, isn't appreciated.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2014 14:56:02 GMT -5
I'm officially expanding the topic to be whatever one chooses to post. Enjoy.
Milee, OP As long as it isn't personal attacks and/or baiting, I'm good with that, Milee.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 4, 2014 15:02:07 GMT -5
If I ever receive a menu with roses in place of prices, then when the check comes, I will place a rose for each plate I ordered in the fold, with 20% additional rose as tip.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 4, 2014 15:03:04 GMT -5
...:::"Are u a mod? Insult me dont insult my sons.":::...
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 4, 2014 15:11:34 GMT -5
If I ever receive a menu with roses in place of prices, then when the check comes, I will place a rose for each plate I ordered in the fold, with 20% additional rose as tip. LOLOL. Hey, if that's what they want, that's what they get, right ? You could also leave the waitperson a wilted rose if you didn't think the service was very good.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Oct 4, 2014 15:21:42 GMT -5
My thought is "What a great conversation to have with a couple of young males." It is important for them to realize that they need to prepare themselves to deal with the issue of 'man as wallet' that women like Shooby are training. Thats ignorant. Not sure why it is alright for him to insult me? He may have gotten "burned" at some point and may feel that women are golddiggers. I wouldn't worry about it. Some guys cannot get rid of that feeling after a bad experience. I know you are raising your daughter to become as educated and independent as you are yourself. Your sons will have very good manners and I cannot imagine that any child of yours would allow himself or herself to be taken advantage of.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2014 15:25:50 GMT -5
Or I may have been making a valid point. One might consider all the possibilities.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Oct 4, 2014 15:30:08 GMT -5
Or I may have been making a valid point. One might consider all the possibilities. I did consider the possibility. I know Shooby personally and it is not even a possibility. If you are speaking of all women or most women, you should know better after having been on this board. Are there some women that are golddiggers? Sure. And some men--ask me how I know. Chips on the shoulder look like they get heavy. You might consider getting rid of yours.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2014 15:37:05 GMT -5
I've been in one place that did that. In the 70s when women still had to use the side door. Detroit Athletic Club. I hated going there but that's where all the partners ate so their underlings and their dates were subjected to "the treatment." Btw, if you didn't like it and they were aware of your feelings, your date would get the drift to get rid of you because you wouldn't put up with the shit you were expected to.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Oct 4, 2014 15:37:46 GMT -5
With regard to the Ladies' Menu, I would be rather offended to receive one without prices, unless it were one of those high-end places where none of the menus have prices.
I view it as condescension to give a man the one with prices and the women one without.
I doubt I would make a scene, though. I would either ask for a different one WITH prices or speak with the manager at another time, depending on circumstances.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2014 15:39:41 GMT -5
... Chips on the shoulder look like they get heavy. You might consider getting rid of yours. I am actually quite capable of carrying the weight. But thanks for your concern and unsolicited advice.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Oct 4, 2014 15:43:16 GMT -5
... Chips on the shoulder look like they get heavy. You might consider getting rid of yours. I am actually quite capable of carrying the weight. But thanks for your concern and unsolicited advice. You are welcome. You are on a message board, this happens. You can take it or leave it. You are apparently not carrying the weight well, as your bitterness overfloweth the cup.
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