hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 11:07:00 GMT -5
Don't you ladies worry about how much things cost at a restaurant. You'll get plenty of information on food prices when you're clipping coupons and doing the grocery shopping so that you can have my dinner ready when I get home from the office. Now back in the kitchen!
I understand the guest menu idea, as others have said, often the guest cannot pay at a country club setting. I don't understand the idea that a woman would always be the "guest" at a public restaurant. This ranks right up there with waiters who ask the man present what the woman will be ordering.
Not that this is a great question, but I'm curious what happens when you can't tell if someone is a "man" or a "woman"...either because it isn't immediately obvious, or because of surgeries. The whole thing seems like either a stupid gimmick, or someone who seriously needs to get in touch with the way the world is now.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 11:47:37 GMT -5
I do understand what bill was saying about the "contradiction" for young men. I've seen them visibly struggle with whether or not to open a door for a lady - not knowing what her reaction would be. That's just sad, IMO. I gave up on worrying about things like that some time ago. I figure if someone rejects me for something so trivial as opening the door (or not) then that's not the kind of person I'd want to be with.
If someone is willing to get offended over door opening, I'd be worried about what else they're going to get offended over.
So I just do what seems appropriate, given the situation.
I think that's the way to live your life - with what you are comfortable with when it concerns things like opening doors. People will either like it or they won't.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 6, 2014 11:49:15 GMT -5
Not that this is a great question, but I'm curious what happens when you can't tell if someone is a "man" or a "woman"...either because it isn't immediately obvious, or because of surgeries. The whole thing seems like either a stupid gimmick, or someone who seriously needs to get in touch with the way the world is now. They get the Pat menu.
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siralynn
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Post by siralynn on Oct 6, 2014 12:00:08 GMT -5
I have fortunately never encountered a "ladies' menu" in person (would drive me bat$h!t crazy), but there were definitely a couple of jewelry stores that did NOT get my business when selecting an engagement ring, because they kept showing the price tag only to my fiance and wouldn't let me see it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 12:19:46 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. Totally understand what you are saying and your attitude about it isn't "wrong" at all. It's just not the same attitude everyone has and theirs isn't wrong either. I can honestly say I've never been discriminated against because I'm female. That may be because I'm lucky. That may be because I don't walk around acting like, because I have a vagina, I'm entitled to anything more or less than someone who has a penis. Or? It may be because I do my job and I do it well without needing to participate in any of the politics of man/woman stuff. I'm old-fashioned. I fully admit it and don't apologize for it. I like those old-fashioned courtesies extended to me and I extend them to others. I'm only attracted to men who behave in a manner that coincides with my opinion of how a gentleman should behave. (Probablye xplains why I'm still single!) Other women aren't and that's ok, too. Some men open doors; some don't. Neither is wrong but only one of them would be my ideal mate. Men have the same options. Some men are probably not attracted to an old-fashioned woman and that's simply a matter of personal preference. I wouldn't be the lady for them. Nobody is "wrong" here. And as long as one side doesn't try to ruin it for the other, we'll all be just fine!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 12:30:32 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. Totally understand what you are saying and your attitude about it isn't "wrong" at all. It's just not the same attitude everyone has and theirs isn't wrong either. I can honestly say I've never been discriminated against because I'm female. That may be because I'm lucky. That may be because I don't walk around acting like, because I have a vagina, I'm entitled to anything more or less than someone who has a penis. Or? It may be because I do my job and I do it well without needing to participate in any of the politics of man/woman stuff. I'm old-fashioned. I fully admit it and don't apologize for it. I like those old-fashioned courtesies extended to me and I extend them to others. I'm only attracted to men who behave in a manner that coincides with my opinion of how a gentleman should behave. (Probablye xplains why I'm still single!) Other women aren't and that's ok, too. Some men open doors; some don't. Neither is wrong but only one of them would be my ideal mate. Men have the same options. Some men are probably not attracted to an old-fashioned woman and that's simply a matter of personal preference. I wouldn't be the lady for them. Nobody is "wrong" here. And as long as one side doesn't try to ruin it for the other, we'll all be just fine! so would you be ok if your boss all of a sudden decided that a man needed your job more than you because as a man he had a family to support?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 6, 2014 12:33:05 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. WHile I don't get offended if my husband opens the door for me, I don't expect it. and it's a waste of time if I'm there first.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 12:44:46 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. WHile I don't get offended if my husband opens the door for me, I don't expect it. and it's a waste of time if I'm there first. In my mind, the issue is not whether you enjoy it, it's whether you expect/demand specific treatment due to your gender. And to Dark's point, if as a group, a group simultaneously argues for both sides of a coin (equal treatment based on gender and unequal treatment based on gender), then you shouldn't complain when you get one of the things you're asking for. It's difficult to make progress/changes when you argue for a widespread change (equality) while also trying to segment out certain pieces you don't want to change because it is of benefit to you. It's kind of like demanding a raise at work because everyone else in your position makes more money, but simultaneously arguing that you shouldn't be expected to take on the same workload as them because you've never had the same workload in the past. You're not going to get both things you want most likely, and in the end, someone else will decide for you which one you will get, if either. If you simply made a reasonable and fair request, you could likely have whichever you decided was most important to you. As long as people argue for "equality...sometimes", they will continue to get it..sometimes...though not necessarily at the times they really want it.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 6, 2014 12:46:02 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. WHile I don't get offended if my husband opens the door for me, I don't expect it. and it's a waste of time if I'm there first. Ain't nobody got time for that!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 6, 2014 12:46:17 GMT -5
WHile I don't get offended if my husband opens the door for me, I don't expect it. and it's a waste of time if I'm there first. In my mind, the issue is not whether you enjoy it, it's whether you expect/demand specific treatment due to your gender. And to Dark's point, if as a group, a group simultaneously argues for both sides of a coin (equal treatment based on gender and unequal treatment based on gender), then you shouldn't complain when you get one of the things you're asking for. It's difficult to make progress/changes when you argue for a widespread change (equality) while also trying to segment out certain pieces you don't want to change because it is of benefit to you. It's kind of like demanding a raise at work because everyone else in your position makes more money, but simultaneously arguing that you shouldn't be expected to take on the same workload as them because you've never had the same workload in the past. You're not going to get both things you want most likely, and in the end, someone else will decide for you which one you will get, if either. If you simply made a reasonable and fair request, you could likely have whichever you decided was most important to you. As long as people argue for "equality...sometimes", they will continue to get it..sometimes...though not necessarily at the times they really want it. Blah, blah, blah. I don't care if someone if someone with a penis opens the door for me. I don't expect it.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 6, 2014 12:47:38 GMT -5
In my mind, the issue is not whether you enjoy it, it's whether you expect/demand specific treatment due to your gender. And to Dark's point, if as a group, a group simultaneously argues for both sides of a coin (equal treatment based on gender and unequal treatment based on gender), then you shouldn't complain when you get one of the things you're asking for. It's difficult to make progress/changes when you argue for a widespread change (equality) while also trying to segment out certain pieces you don't want to change because it is of benefit to you. It's kind of like demanding a raise at work because everyone else in your position makes more money, but simultaneously arguing that you shouldn't be expected to take on the same workload as them because you've never had the same workload in the past. You're not going to get both things you want most likely, and in the end, someone else will decide for you which one you will get, if either. If you simply made a reasonable and fair request, you could likely have whichever you decided was most important to you. As long as people argue for "equality...sometimes", they will continue to get it..sometimes...though not necessarily at the times they really want it. Blah, blah, blah. I don't care if someone if someone with a penis opens the door for me. I don't expect it.
I bet if they opened it with their penis you would care.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 6, 2014 12:48:46 GMT -5
WHile I don't get offended if my husband opens the door for me, I don't expect it. and it's a waste of time if I'm there first. Ain't nobody got time for that! He opens the door for me when we are leisurely going about our daily grocery shopping where we carefully select only the freshest foods for that days meal, which we will prepare together, as we gave lovingly into each other's eyes. We will be assisted in the preparation of said meal by our children, who never fight over who gets to crack the egg, and never, ever, ever stick their fingers in the food after they licked said fingers. And the kids will eat whatever I made without complaint because they love to try new foods, especially ones that feature organic kale.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 6, 2014 12:49:11 GMT -5
Blah, blah, blah. I don't care if someone if someone with a penis opens the door for me. I don't expect it.
I bet if they opened it with their penis you would care. damn right I would. he'd be my backup husband.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 6, 2014 12:51:34 GMT -5
Sometimes, I hold the door open for my DH if he's not feeling too good or is tired. We help each other out.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 12:53:18 GMT -5
::Blah, blah, blah. I don't care if someone if someone with a penis opens the door for me. I don't expect it. ::
You should, opening doors is the new "buying dinner". It requires you to put out.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Oct 6, 2014 12:55:51 GMT -5
damn right I would. he'd be my backup husband. It's not actually as impressive as it sounds. Some modern cars have a button that opens the door on the key fob. I've never tried to press said button with my penis, but in theory it wouldn't be that hard. Very punny of you.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 6, 2014 13:08:15 GMT -5
If women in general want equal pay at work, the same shot at promotions and leadership opportunities, an equal voice in how the country is run, equal percentage of college entrance slots, etc, and so forth, they can open their own fucking car door at the very least. Or, since we're equal now, we can take turns, so every other time we go somewhere she can walk around the car and open my door for no reason even though I'm obviously capable of doing it myself in a fraction of the time. Opening car doors always seemed cumbersome to me. As you said, people can open their own car door, get in, and close it in a fraction of the time it takes for another person to walk around the car, open it, wait for the person to get in, close the door, walk back around the car, get in, and close their door, and get driving.
The only way I'd ever consider doing that would be for a formal occasion, like a bow tie event or a formal date night.
But it's way too cumbersome to do in everyday practice.
The big imbalance we need to fix is to have women register for the draft too. Since it's been agreed upon women can serve in combat, there's no reason to restrict the draft only to men.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 13:33:25 GMT -5
Totally understand what you are saying and your attitude about it isn't "wrong" at all. It's just not the same attitude everyone has and theirs isn't wrong either. I can honestly say I've never been discriminated against because I'm female. That may be because I'm lucky. That may be because I don't walk around acting like, because I have a vagina, I'm entitled to anything more or less than someone who has a penis. Or? It may be because I do my job and I do it well without needing to participate in any of the politics of man/woman stuff. I'm old-fashioned. I fully admit it and don't apologize for it. I like those old-fashioned courtesies extended to me and I extend them to others. I'm only attracted to men who behave in a manner that coincides with my opinion of how a gentleman should behave. (Probablye xplains why I'm still single!) Other women aren't and that's ok, too. Some men open doors; some don't. Neither is wrong but only one of them would be my ideal mate. Men have the same options. Some men are probably not attracted to an old-fashioned woman and that's simply a matter of personal preference. I wouldn't be the lady for them. Nobody is "wrong" here. And as long as one side doesn't try to ruin it for the other, we'll all be just fine! so would you be ok if your boss all of a sudden decided that a man needed your job more than you because as a man he had a family to support? Why in the world would that be "ok" and what does the question have to do with my post?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 13:35:49 GMT -5
damn right I would. he'd be my backup husband. It's not actually as impressive as it sounds. Some modern cars have a button that opens the door on the key fob. I've never tried to press said button with my penis, but in theory it wouldn't be that hard. I'd think it would have to be if you were going to be able to push the button.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 6, 2014 13:39:14 GMT -5
He opens the door for me when we are leisurely going about our daily grocery shopping where we carefully select only the freshest foods for that days meal, which we will prepare together, as we gave lovingly into each other's eyes. We will be assisted in the preparation of said meal by our children, who never fight over who gets to crack the egg, and never, ever, ever stick their fingers in the food after they licked said fingers. And the kids will eat whatever I made without complaint because they love to try new foods, especially ones that feature organic kale. And when it's time for this lovingly prepared, fresh organic food to exit your digestive tract, you should make use of the SNL Love Toilet. That way you can hold hands.
www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/280889/
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 6, 2014 13:43:08 GMT -5
I can honestly say I've never been discriminated against because I'm female. That may be because I'm lucky. That may be because I don't walk around acting like, because I have a vagina, I'm entitled to anything more or less than someone who has a penis. Or? It may be because I do my job and I do it well without needing to participate in any of the politics of man/woman stuff. Or because you work in fields that traditionally have more women or are unionized or in which prior women have blazed the trail. Or you've been lucky. No way to know, but I'm glad you haven't had to deal with that.
Not all women who encounter discrimination were walking around acting like their vagina entitled them to anything more or less than someone who has a penis nor did they necessarily do their job poorly or participate in politics.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 6, 2014 14:35:07 GMT -5
My new theory on door opening is that the doors of cars used to be really heavy and no weak little lady would be able to wrestle one open. Hence guys had to do it. Discuss.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 14:54:54 GMT -5
::Why in the world would that be "ok" and what does the question have to do with my post?::
Because you seem to be arguing that whether people are sexist or not is ok, and neither is "wrong". Or more specifically, that in some cases you advocate for sexism when it suits you, but you certainly wouldn't be ok with it as in the above example. You are making an argument for sexism in some cases by labeling it as "old fashioned"...but as with the equality discussion, you only want to be "old fashioned" when it is to your benefit.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 14:59:29 GMT -5
::Why in the world would that be "ok" and what does the question have to do with my post?:: Because you seem to be arguing that whether people are sexist or not is ok, and neither is "wrong". Or more specifically, that in some cases you advocate for sexism when it suits you, but you certainly wouldn't be ok with it as in the above example. You are making an argument for sexism in some cases by labeling it as "old fashioned"...but as with the equality discussion, you only want to be "old fashioned" when it is to your benefit. Where in the world did I say it was ok to be sexist? Old-fashioned and sexist aren't the same things. You make stuff up because you like to argue. Sounds to me like you hate women. (No...it really doesn't but I can make up shit, too.)
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 15:03:48 GMT -5
WS!!!!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 15:09:42 GMT -5
::Why in the world would that be "ok" and what does the question have to do with my post?:: Because you seem to be arguing that whether people are sexist or not is ok, and neither is "wrong". Or more specifically, that in some cases you advocate for sexism when it suits you, but you certainly wouldn't be ok with it as in the above example. You are making an argument for sexism in some cases by labeling it as "old fashioned"...but as with the equality discussion, you only want to be "old fashioned" when it is to your benefit. Where in the world did I say it was ok to be sexist? Old-fashioned and sexist aren't the same things. You make stuff up because you like to argue. Sounds to me like you hate women. (No...it really doesn't but I can make up shit, too.) You didn't say "it's ok to be sexist", because most people never say it. But you clearly have some opinions on what behaviors men should engage in, and what behavior women should engage in, and clearly some of those behaviors are different depending on the sex of the person. That's sexist. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it does mean it's sexist. Not all sexism is necessarily morally wrong imo, just like not all other types of prejudices are wrong. I'm sexist, I only want to go on dates with women. Old fashioned and sexist aren't the same things...I could be old fashioned in that I like to wear old timey clothes. Your examples of "old fashioned" were clearly sexist though, whether they're harmful or not. That's why I'm assuming that question, and what it had to do with your post, was essentially "when is sexism ok and when is it not?". I didn't ask the question, but I see the clear relationship between it and what you said.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Oct 6, 2014 15:14:50 GMT -5
The definition of a "sexist" is to believe that one gender is inferior to another. It has nothing to do with "differences". If you read that in any of my posts...I don't know what to say. But I know I don't intend to argue for the sake of arguing. It's dumb.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 15:16:32 GMT -5
Of course they are. They're on different ends of the women should be treated different because they're different spectrum, but they both spring from the same belief that women are inherently different from men. Propogating that belief leads to some nice things, to some, like more guys paying for dinner, holding doors open, or throwing our jacket over a puddle, but it also reinforces not so behaviors like hiring/promoting men over women because they have women and kids to take care of. They're all part of the same underlying root belief system. I have to agree with this.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 6, 2014 15:17:09 GMT -5
My new theory on door opening is that the doors of cars used to be really heavy and no weak little lady would be able to wrestle one open. Hence guys had to do it. Discuss. Were chairs really heavy back then to, because we're supposed to pull those out for you as well? Of course they were. They were all corseted up and couldn't breath so everything was just so difficult.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 6, 2014 15:26:46 GMT -5
The definition of a "sexist" is to believe that one gender is inferior to another. It has nothing to do with "differences". If you read that in any of my posts...I don't know what to say. But I know I don't intend to argue for the sake of arguing. It's dumb. That's actually not the definition of a sexist. It's prejudice or discrimination on the basis of sex. For example, believing only women should wear dresses is sexist. It has nothing to necessarily do with belief of inferiority of one sex (though can certainly be applied in that way as well).
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