sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 14:03:28 GMT -5
I think Sheila's dad is trying to strike a hopeless balance between keeping the peace with the family, keeping the peace with his wife and still getting face time with his grandkids. No wonder they escaped to the vacation house. Sheila, if your dad backs down in the face of FB proof, then severely limiting your time with family other than your own is basically your only option. It's clear that your brother is not only burning every bridge he's ever had, he's throwing away any chance to find the materials to rebuild those burned bridges. That's why I figure is going on.
People that don't know us probably think we're a nice, normal family. I've been saying for years that we'd make some psychologist a fortune if we'd let him write a book about us. I have felt like the odd, only sane one in the family since I was a kid. Amazingly enough I'm the only one that's actually done therapy
People that know the entire family frequently ask me how I am related to the rest of them because I seem so different than them. I take it as a compliment (whether that was their intention or not)
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 14:07:12 GMT -5
I messaged him and said "So I hear your are out of town today?" and he responded with "Sorry, thought I told you about that last week"
It's that time of year in which I only actually see him in person maybe 30 to 60 minutes a week. I usually just like for him to bless off on things so we are on the same page. I just proceeded as I planned and can make any adjustments in June if necessary.
It's not a big deal it's just annoying and sums up my ranking in the family that everyone BUT me knew they were leaving town.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 6, 2014 14:09:05 GMT -5
I'm struck by the text, referring to him as "your" brother, not "our"; as if sister somehow blames Sheila for this.
Sheila, you're a strong person for putting up with this.
Since you can't move, can you look for another job?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 6, 2014 14:11:00 GMT -5
Meh, when mom annoys me, I call her my sister's mother or my DH's mother in law.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 6, 2014 14:25:05 GMT -5
She's already trying to do this, as I understand it. I'm getting stuck on the big boss going out of state and not letting her know about, esp. since she's trying to finish something that he needs to sign off on (at least that's how I'm interpreting her previous post.) I was thinking that, too; it's odd for the big boss to just leave, especially knowing there is work to be done that needs his input. ...
I\Am I the only one who is not amazed by this? In post #61 Sheila writes that in 2 years whwn the Boy has graduated and Dad has sold the businessto A**hat Bro she will leave to move away from the situation. She ALSO mentions that she thinks AHB will run the business into the ground within 1 year. And dad ackowledges that she is probably right on both counts. The fact that all his employees will have to suffer for dad's lack of cojones seems to do nothing in making him reconsidering his plans. If he is willing to flush all these people down the drain for peace at home now, what makes you think that being present to sign off on Sheila's ME close? In Sheila's posts I read a lot of love for her parents, but I also read a lot about self indulgence and selfishness dispayed by her parents! So no, I am not amazed.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 14:28:43 GMT -5
I'm struck by the text, referring to him as "your" brother, not "our"; as if sister somehow blames Sheila for this. Sheila, you're a strong person for putting up with this. Since you can't move, can you look for another job? Sorry- that's a joke between my sister and I. We always bicker about who has to "claim" him that week. I frequently refer to him as "my parent's son" instead of "my brother".
I've been sending my resume out to see if I get any bites.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 6, 2014 14:42:55 GMT -5
I was thinking that, too; it's odd for the big boss to just leave, especially knowing there is work to be done that needs his input. ...
I\Am I the only one who is not amazed by this? In post #61 Sheila writes that in 2 years whwn the Boy has graduated and Dad has sold the businessto A**hat Bro she will leave to move away from the situation. She ALSO mentions that she thinks AHB will run the business into the ground within 1 year. And dad ackowledges that she is probably right on both counts. The fact that all his employees will have to suffer for dad's lack of cojones seems to do nothing in making him reconsidering his plans. If he is willing to flush all these people down the drain for peace at home now, what makes you think that being present to sign off on Sheila's ME close? In Sheila's posts I read a lot of love for her parents, but I also read a lot about self indulgence and selfishness dispayed by her parents! So no, I am not amazed.I'm not amazed either. Thing is, the parents don't see their behavior as selfish or self-indulgent. We do, because we stand outside the situation, and many of us have actually seen this kind of behavior in our own families. Mom and dad are trying to hold onto the vision of a happy family (Sheila mentions that to outsiders, their family certainly looks normal), no matter the cost. I think deep down, they know their son is toxic to them, their employees and his kids. But they keep propping him up, hoping for a breakthough, fearing that worse will happen if they don't and to keep in touch with their grandkids. I don't blame them in the angry sense of that word, but I do see where they have some responsibility for what has happened. When you never cut the umbilical cord, it can wind up wrapped around your neck.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 14:59:47 GMT -5
I think my dad doesn't know what to do to be honest. He knows that the odds of anyone ever employing my brother are pretty slim. AHB (love that btw) has a terrible reputation in the industry and to say no one would hire him is probably accurate. My dad thinks (and has told me as much) that if he doesn't employ him then my brother will end up living in their basement with his ex and their two kids. My mom has always championed my brother (my dad told me it's out of guilt because she never liked him much when he was younger). So any time my dad tries to talk to AHB about his behavior mom steps in and gets upset.
She went through the whole ovarian cysts, emergency surgery, breast cancer, surgery, chemo, etc. thing and it's not what I would like to call "stable". They've been married for 45 years this month and he has always put himself in the role of peace maker, white knight, etc. in the family. What usually ends up happening is he caters to whoever is loudest (always AHB) and tries to pacify the rest of us with meaningless platitudes and empty promises like "I'll talk to him", "he's promised to stop screaming so much", etc.
It's just an awkward situation all around. My dad knows that he disappoints my sister and I when he caters to AHB but he also knows that we won't resort to screaming, swearing, threats of violence, etc. So in the end he gives in to the squeaky (or screaming) wheel. He blames himself for how AHB behaves but is at a loss on how to correct that behavior and keeps hoping that one day the lightbulb will go off and DBro will change his asshat ways. By the time that happens the rest of us will have moved on and distanced ourselves from the family. Sad but I've tried to tell them how I feel and why. They know that AHB is the reason I don't see them more. It disappoints them but they respect my wishes.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 6, 2014 15:04:33 GMT -5
Father's Day is coming up. Give your father a copy of Boundaries and Co-Dependent No More (or whatever those books are that people keep mentioning on these boards). Or a set of noise-cancelling headphones so he doesn't have to listen to your mother or AHB.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 15:09:37 GMT -5
Mollyanna- I'm totally going to get him both of those things- the books and the headphones!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 6, 2014 15:10:47 GMT -5
Or a set of noise-cancelling headphones so he doesn't have to listen to your mother or AHB.
Unfortunately, noise-canceling headphones do not work at voice frequency. I know, I tried when I was trapped on a flight with a set of screaming, 4 year old triplets seated behind me. Thank God it was a short flight!
And for future reference, you cannot turn up an iPod's volume high enough to drown the screams out either.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 6, 2014 15:20:47 GMT -5
Or a set of noise-cancelling headphones so he doesn't have to listen to your mother or AHB.Unfortunately, noise-canceling headphones do not work at voice frequency. AHB and mother don't have to know that.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 6, 2014 15:28:22 GMT -5
Or a set of noise-cancelling headphones so he doesn't have to listen to your mother or AHB.Unfortunately, noise-canceling headphones do not work at voice frequency. I know, I tried when I was trapped on a flight with a set of screaming, 4 year old triplets seated behind me. Thank God it was a short flight! And for future reference, you cannot turn up an iPod's volume high enough to drown the screams out either. The real, over the ear ones work wonderfully. I have a cheap pair of JVC ones that I can't even hear my mixer through.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 15:30:12 GMT -5
I think my dad doesn't know what to do to be honest. He knows that the odds of anyone ever employing my brother are pretty slim. AHB (love that btw) has a terrible reputation in the industry and to say no one would hire him is probably accurate. My dad thinks (and has told me as much) that if he doesn't employ him then my brother will end up living in their basement with his ex and their two kids. My mom has always championed my brother (my dad told me it's out of guilt because she never liked him much when he was younger). So any time my dad tries to talk to AHB about his behavior mom steps in and gets upset.
She went through the whole ovarian cysts, emergency surgery, breast cancer, surgery, chemo, etc. thing and it's not what I would like to call "stable". They've been married for 45 years this month and he has always put himself in the role of peace maker, white knight, etc. in the family. What usually ends up happening is he caters to whoever is loudest (always AHB) and tries to pacify the rest of us with meaningless platitudes and empty promises like "I'll talk to him", "he's promised to stop screaming so much", etc.
It's just an awkward situation all around. My dad knows that he disappoints my sister and I when he caters to AHB but he also knows that we won't resort to screaming, swearing, threats of violence, etc. So in the end he gives in to the squeaky (or screaming) wheel. He blames himself for how AHB behaves but is at a loss on how to correct that behavior and keeps hoping that one day the lightbulb will go off and DBro will change his asshat ways. By the time that happens the rest of us will have moved on and distanced ourselves from the family. Sad but I've tried to tell them how I feel and why. They know that AHB is the reason I don't see them more. It disappoints them but they respect my wishes.
Please suggest counseling to your father. That's all you can do. Other than that, your father needs to fire your brother, and his house is not a flop house. Grow a spine Daddykins.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 6, 2014 15:32:06 GMT -5
I think my dad doesn't know what to do to be honest. He knows that the odds of anyone ever employing my brother are pretty slim. AHB (love that btw) has a terrible reputation in the industry and to say no one would hire him is probably accurate. My dad thinks (and has told me as much) that if he doesn't employ him then my brother will end up living in their basement with his ex and their two kids.
It's just an awkward situation all around. My dad knows that he disappoints my sister and I when he caters to AHB but he also knows that we won't resort to screaming, swearing, threats of violence, etc. So in the end he gives in to the squeaky (or screaming) wheel. He blames himself for how AHB behaves but is at a loss on how to correct that behavior and keeps hoping that one day the lightbulb will go off and DBro will change his asshat ways.
Your AHB will only end up in the basement if your parents refuse to stiffen their collective spines and tell him no. I cannot even imagine what that house of horrors will be if he does move in. And it may be time for your wheels to squeak. You and your sister together can make some pretty loud noise, if you want. I'm assuming (from you posts) that your sister is not in the same area. Get some job nibbles and let your dad know you are serious about getting out now, and that you have been contacted by other companies. You are not going down with his ship, and if it means jumping off sooner and avoiding the overcrowded lifeboats, then so be it. You parents may be somewhat responsible, but AHB is an adult. If anyone has blame in this, it's him. At some point, making it seem like Mommy and Daddy are at fault is nothing more than a form of bullying, and he knows he can twist and turn and make them dance like puppets.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 6, 2014 15:33:31 GMT -5
Or a set of noise-cancelling headphones so he doesn't have to listen to your mother or AHB.Unfortunately, noise-canceling headphones do not work at voice frequency. I know, I tried when I was trapped on a flight with a set of screaming, 4 year old triplets seated behind me. Thank God it was a short flight! And for future reference, you cannot turn up an iPod's volume high enough to drown the screams out either. The real, over the ear ones work wonderfully. I have a cheap pair of JVC ones that I can't even hear my mixer through. These are over the ear. Mechanical noises (and I would guess that mixers fall in this category) fall here, it's how they get rid of the drone of airplane noises. Voices (and screams) are a different frequency. However, a pair of ear muffs like you would wear to the shooting range would block out the noise.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 15:37:08 GMT -5
I don't know if AHB acts this way around everyone but if he does, he's going to find himself in deep doo-doo. His children will be shunned by everyone civilized and talked about big time in the teachers staff room. If they don't quiet their filthy language, they'll find themselves isolated at school, too. Schools are loathe to suspend but in house ones don't count.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 6, 2014 15:43:26 GMT -5
The real, over the ear ones work wonderfully. I have a cheap pair of JVC ones that I can't even hear my mixer through. These are over the ear. Mechanical noises (and I would guess that mixers fall in this category) fall here, it's how they get rid of the drone of airplane noises. Voices (and screams) are a different frequency. However, a pair of ear muffs like you would wear to the shooting range would block out the noise. Mine take out voices too.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 15:54:22 GMT -5
I don't know if AHB acts this way around everyone but if he does, he's going to find himself in deep doo-doo. His children will be shunned by everyone civilized and talked about big time in the teachers staff room. If they don't quiet their filthy language, they'll find themselves isolated at school, too. Schools are loathe to suspend but in house ones don't count. Yes- for the most part he does. He has this fake personality that he'll trot out when he is trying to impress someone but it never lasts. He always reverts back to his usual behavior.
Put it this way- my grandmas both dislike my brother and don't speak to him. They've flat out told me that they don't like him- he is too loud and swears too much in their opinion. He embarrassed my grandma once in front of her church (in a town of like 300 people) and she was so upset she drove 30 minutes to a different church for 6 months because she was embarrassed to go back to her regular church.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 16:00:16 GMT -5
So your parents have lost their parents and two of their children but just "oh,well?"
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 16:02:47 GMT -5
So even though you live in liberal California, not all aspire to that idea. Your darling bro is going to find his mouth and himself on the wrong end of a knife or a gun. Your parents then will have to live with that its their fault he died. Because it is. They can force him to get help. They don't.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jun 6, 2014 16:22:16 GMT -5
Zib, they don't live in CA. They live in MN (Her parents have a vacation home in CA and Sheila lived in CA in the military but the family isn't from CA). (Correct me if I'm wrong, Sheila).
I'm sorry u are going through this. I feel for your Dad and Sister too. It sounds like the biggest issue is your Mom. I would bet your Dad would ignore/write-off/put AHB in his place but for your Mom's interference. Your Dad sounds like he is appeasing AHB because he doesn't want to anger your mom but she needs to understand what this is doing to the family (You, Dad, sister, etc). It isn't healthy for any of you or AHB's kids.
Have you sat down with your Mom and tried to see what her deal is? Is there a way that you/sister/grandparents can have family events with mom and dad without him? Why is he invited to events just because they want him there? Can u have the event at your home or gma's home so that he isn't invited? I think your mom needs to know how her behavior towards AHB is negatively impacting your relationship with her as well as causing your Dad stress.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 16:48:29 GMT -5
Stupid iPad. Had a whole long post typed out and I lost it. Audrey is right. Except we were in ca for work and Alaska for the military. Ca was done out of a desire to get free from my family. Moved back to mn when DH and I were both unemployed in 2009
grandma was severe dementia and is in a nursing home. This conversation about church took place years ago. Her hosting things is not an option. For events for my immediate family I host at my house And my brother is not invited.
My my relationship with my mother is very fragile. I don't think she likes me very much and I'm hesitant to rock that boat. She rill frequently get mad at me and not speak to me for weeks at a time. If I tell her her precious son is an asshat she would likely never speak to me again. As
my sister lives in Iowa about 4 hours away. My mom knows my sister and I don't get along with AHB. She ignores it or blamed us for the rift. Usually when he starts up I leave. At Christmas he will start bad mouthing the presents we got from my folks and making rude comments. I'll ask him to be more respectful. He'll start to yell at me and that's my cue to leave. I've started just leaving before I say anything to him. I politely thank my parents. Make an excuse to my mom. Tell my dad I'm leaving before the drama and screaming starts and simply go home.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 16:54:45 GMT -5
When we do go to my parents we always have an exit plan and tell them upfront that ds has homework , we are meeting friends for a movie. Etc. I always go with a time limit. My brother usually has about two hours before he starts really behaving like an ass. So my goal is to be walking out the door at the ninety minute point.
I hate that that's how it is. I've suggested therapy to my dad several times. He says he'll think about it and then not do it. I've been trying to not stress him out so I don't say much to him about it. If I told him everything it would be a daily report of "this is what he did today""thus is who he offended ". "This is the list of customers we lost or employees that threatened to quit" etc. so I usually try to smooth out the ruffled feathers before he finds out and incur my brothers wrath to protect the other employees.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jun 6, 2014 17:23:13 GMT -5
It seems like the employees will all leave when your brother takes over, or all lose their jobs when he runs it into the ground. Maybe it's time to stop smoothing ruffled feathers and start watching the employees and customers go elsewhere now; maybe then father will really see how bad it is.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Jun 6, 2014 17:59:34 GMT -5
It seems like the employees will all leave when your brother takes over, or all lose their jobs when he runs it into the ground. Maybe it's time to stop smoothing ruffled feathers and start watching the employees and customers go elsewhere now; maybe then father will really see how bad it is.
So this!!! It sounds like by dealing with this behavior by smoothing things over or having an excuse already made, it helps to limit the impact of his behavior. While I know it seems like it has to be done to prevent collateral damage (hurting Dad or Mom or the kids), all it does is embolden him and reduce the impact to your brother. I would think that making excuses to leave also helps to do that. By you saying "DS has homework" or "we have to do XX", it just reinforces to AHB and Mom that you are leaving because you want to (vs. leaving because he's a jerk). I wouldn't fix anything he screws up. You aren't his boss, right? When a client complains about him, recommend the client speak to your father directly. If an employee complains, don't make excuses, just nod your head and shrug your shoulders. Recommend that they speak to your Dad as well, as he is the boss. For family gatherings, don't leave earlier than you want to. If you would stay with Mom & Dad for a few more hours, plan to stay that long. If he starts behaving like a lunatic at 2 hours, don't engage, just point out that his behavior is unacceptable, go say goodbye to Mom and Dad (Tell them you would have liked to stay but cant tolerate this) and leave at that point. I know it's hard because it makes it seem like he is "winning" and running you off. But, think of it this way.... You don't care what he thinks, he's an Asshat. Your only motivation should be to show Mom (and somewhat Dad) that his behavior is causing their kids and grandkids (You, DS, Sis, etc) to have to leave. Maybe if mom and Dad realize that their fun /time with you is cut short because of AHB, they will grow a pair and tell him to back off.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jun 6, 2014 18:54:47 GMT -5
It seems like your job is leaving you too exposed to the family drama. Can you find another job in the area for the two years you intend to stay?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 19:36:09 GMT -5
She's trying.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 19:48:14 GMT -5
Listen to Mardi and stop making excuses for your brother to spare your family's feelings. They do nothing to spare yours.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 6, 2014 20:15:40 GMT -5
I also have an idiot brother too that drives me crazy, but not nearly as idiotic as this guy. With my brother, I tend to be pretty darn honest. We fight, and then it's over. I'm not like that with anyone but family. In a way, I'm in awe of your restraint by not engaging/taking the high road. However, I also wonder if you're not doing something similar to what your parents are doing by not confronting him, and especially by trying to always smooth things over for your mom. Why go to such lengths to try to maintain such a relationship with your mother? I don't know, maybe I'm just petty. It might be useful to mull over in your mind regardless.
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