Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 5, 2014 9:54:30 GMT -5
Well, that's a step. I'm not sure if it's in the right direction or just a siddle off but still, it IS a step of sorts.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 9:55:00 GMT -5
Since I'm in the mood today - I'd round on brother and put HIM in time out. The "rule" for timeout is 1 minute per age year, once you're over 2-3 years of age. So your brother is, what, 40? So 40 minutes in a corner, after apologizing. And every time he comes out or says something, the clocks starts over. That would be so freaking awesome!!!!! Would totally make my entire year if just once my parents did that or put any of the blame on him. It's always me that gets blamed when he flies off the handle. I'm perpetually the bad guy in my family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 9:55:58 GMT -5
Oh I've disciplined the kids before. When I catch them swearing or calling people "Stupid Bitch" (that's a favorite phrase of theirs) I'll scold them and try to put them in a time out. I don't spank because I don't think it's a productive form of punishment and DH has issues with spanking.
Typically this is what will happen: A is playing with her cousins. She will get mad and call them "stupid Bitches". I overhear the comment and tell A "it's not nice to call your cousins names like that, you need to apologize and go sit in the chair by the front door in a time out for 5 minutes" DBro will conveniently only hear me scold A and start screaming "God Sheila, like you're so f&*king perfect! You can't tell my daughter what to do! You are such a f&*king Bitch" At which point A will start to smile, the cousins will go find their parents to tattle on their Uncle for screaming and swearing. My mom will start to cry and say "calm down, everyone stop yelling it's fine. The kids were playing together nicely and you ruined it" Inevitably my sister will jump in to the fray and yell at my brother for swearing in front of her daughter. Dad will tell everyone to calm down and try to distract the kids with ice cream My older brother will charge into the room and demand that all the kids go outside because they shouldn't be inside anyway.
At the end I am the bad guy for starting the drama because A called her cousins a bad name.
I'm sorry, but why in the heck do you spend any time around these people? I don't care if they're your parents, they clearly don't give a shit about anyone but bro's feelings.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 5, 2014 10:01:50 GMT -5
Very sad about your parents. It's hard to watch people you love self destruct. Your dads business that he built probably from scratch won't last. I hope he gets all his money from it before it tanks but all those people out of work because of his lack of spine. Too bad you don't open a competing business and take all the good employees with you and watch your brother implode.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 5, 2014 10:03:01 GMT -5
Very sad about your parents. It's hard to watch people you love self destruct. Your dads business that he built probably from scratch won't last. I hope he gets all his money from it before it tanks but all those people out of work because of his lack of spine. Too bad you don't open a competing business and take all the good employees with you and watch your brother implode. Then she'd have to listen to family pressure to hire IB (idiot brother) or God forbid, his wife/whatever she is.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 10:28:59 GMT -5
I hate that his failure will put so many people out of work. It's sad to see. The employees don't respect him. The customers think he is a joke. My dad has said before that he has to employ DBro because anyone else would fire him. The employees have told me that if dad hands the Keys over to my brother they will quit. Can't say I blame them either. The entire industry respects my dad. The guys loves working for him but they all universally hate my brother. They are afraid to say anything bad about him because they don't want to upset my dad so they pretty much suffer in silence.
I see my parents outside of work maybe 6 or 7 times a year. We live in the same town for pete's sake. I hate not seeing them more but it's just so stressful. My mom is very defensive when it comes to my brother and I walk on eggshells for fear I might say something that she takes the wrong way. It's not unusual for her to get mad over something I've said and not speak to me for 3 weeks.
It's June- I saw them the Saturday of Easter weekend, the last Sunday in April they took us out for dinner (just my parents, DH, DS and I) for DS' 16th birthday and I saw them on Sunday of Memorial Day weekend for my nephew's (my sister's son) birthday that they had at their house. I'll see them again probably in August since it's my mom's 65th bday and my parents 45th wedding anniversary. Otherwise I won't likely see them again (outside of work) until Thanksgiving.
I hate not seeing them more but I refuse to be around them when my brother is there. They turn into battered spouses when he's around. They are very careful to not set him off or make him angry so they just bite their tongues a lot. It's disgusting to see and makes me lose respect for them.
I hate that it limits DS' time with his grandparents. My son is the oldest grandkid and named after my dad. The two of them have a lot in common and genuinely enjoy hanging out together but they rarely get one on one time. If my brother finds out that my dad and my son have plans together he will whine until they take his kid with too. Because there are tons of activities that 16 year olds want to do with 4 year olds.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jun 5, 2014 11:23:38 GMT -5
Family dynamics. What a mess. I'm really sorry you and your DH and DS have to deal with all of that. Very sad because there is absolutely nothing YOU can do to change it. It is exclusively up to your parents to stop the abuse and to maybe save the family business. Well, feel free to continue to vent here. At least it may help a little.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 5, 2014 11:25:37 GMT -5
My dad came in to my office today and asked what my plans were for after the Boy graduates. I think he's heard me talking to other people. He said "I imagine with N working up in the Cities that you guys might be thinking of moving up there, huh?"
I told him "yup, in two years you'll have sold XYZ company and have handed the keys to ABC company to boy wonder. We all know that there's no way in Hell I'd survive working for him. Your son is going to run the company into the ground in less than a year. So yes, my plan is to sell the house and move to the Twin Cities after S graduates".
He actually admitted that I was right about my brother's lack of management skills and that moving to the Cities was probably a good idea on our part. I don't know which is more infuriating and sad: the fact that your dad admitted that your brother is a business nitwit, or that he had no real reaction to what you said about moving and not being able to work with your brother.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 11:39:08 GMT -5
Nancy- I told him that DS asked us not to move early and he said "I don't want you to move early either". I think he is aware of what has happened within the family. I've flat out told him the reason I don't go to their house is to avoid my brother.
I'm trying to see his side. He's stuck in a difficult spot. If he stands up to my brother my mom will be mad at him and he won't be able to see my niece and nephew as much. He worries that my brother isn't a very attentive parent and feels that when they are with my folks at least they are getting healthy meals (as opposed to McDonalds) and baths and going to bed at a decent time.
He carries a lot of stress on himself and I really try not to add to it. So I have been trying to keep my mouth shut.
I have 24 months left here. We will be debt free by December. By the end of the year I plan to move DH's entire pay to savings so it will be directly deposited into there and build up our savings. My reasoning is if we learn to live off my income then when we do move I'll be more flexible in my job search because I won't have to replace as much income. I make $80K and DH will make around $50K this year. So if we can live off of $80K (should easily be able to once we are consumer debt free). Then when we move I'll only have to replace a $30-$40K loss with my new job- this will open up a lot of options for me job wise.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 5, 2014 11:48:30 GMT -5
Nancy- I told him that DS asked us not to move early and he said "I don't want you to move early either". I think he is aware of what has happened within the family. I've flat out told him the reason I don't go to their house is to avoid my brother.
I'm trying to see his side. He's stuck in a difficult spot. If he stands up to my brother my mom will be mad at him and he won't be able to see my niece and nephew as much. He worries that my brother isn't a very attentive parent and feels that when they are with my folks at least they are getting healthy meals (as opposed to McDonalds) and baths and going to bed at a decent time.
He carries a lot of stress on himself and I really try not to add to it. So I have been trying to keep my mouth shut.
I have 24 months left here. We will be debt free by December. By the end of the year I plan to move DH's entire pay to savings so it will be directly deposited into there and build up our savings. My reasoning is if we learn to live off my income then when we do move I'll be more flexible in my job search because I won't have to replace as much income. I make $80K and DH will make around $50K this year. So if we can live off of $80K (should easily be able to once we are consumer debt free). Then when we move I'll only have to replace a $30-$40K loss with my new job- this will open up a lot of options for me job wise. I get your Dad trying to strike a balance within the family. Problem is, he will never achieve it. Every time he gets the see-saw right in the middle, so to speak, your brother comes along and throws his crap on one of the seats, knocking all your Dad's work out of balance. This is not a game that your dad will win. Your brother eventually will win, sort of: he'll get the business, run it into the ground, be out of money, a business and good employees, and looking for the next bailout. Dad needs an intervention of his own, perhaps. The stress of trying to decrease all the family stress could really hurt him. It bothers me, and I know it does you, that you avoid family as a unit because one person doesn't have the decency, intelligence or sanity to deal with life on relatively normal terms. I don't blame you, however; you have your own family unit to protect and nurture. I'm glad your son gets to see his grandparents.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 12:03:02 GMT -5
He does see them during the school year as he comes to work after school every day. Now that he's 16 my dad wants him to start actually working here when he gets back from Germany in July so that will be good for both of them.
My brother will "win" because he will fight dirty and not care who he pisses off on his way to victory. In his mind it will be a "WIN" when he is the last one living in our city and his kids get all of Nana and Papa's attention. It'll be a sad day for everyone else.
As mean as it is I've told my dad that when they are gone I have zero intention of maintaining a relationship with my brother. He says he hopes I change my mind and I've told him "I'm not the one that needs to change".
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 5, 2014 12:16:02 GMT -5
Sheila, hon, my heart goes out to you. You're dealing with a really nasty situation in the best way you know how. Balancing your family's needs against the needs of your parents and the ugly manipulations utilized by your brother can't be easy. I admire your ability to handle it all without losing your temper and, possibly, your mind. I have a similar situation with my brother. I maintain civility because of my mother. When she has passed, that relationship is over. I do understand what it's like.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 5, 2014 12:20:05 GMT -5
He does see them during the school year as he comes to work after school every day. Now that he's 16 my dad wants him to start actually working here when he gets back from Germany in July so that will be good for both of them.
My brother will "win" because he will fight dirty and not care who he pisses off on his way to victory. In his mind it will be a "WIN" when he is the last one living in our city and his kids get all of Nana and Papa's attention. It'll be a sad day for everyone else.
As mean as it is I've told my dad that when they are gone I have zero intention of maintaining a relationship with my brother. He says he hopes I change my mind and I've told him "I'm not the one that needs to change". Good for you. And even if you did change, your brother would take your attitude, regardless of what it is, and kick sand all over it, like the bully he is. Time and distancing yourself may bring your brother around. I would not count on it, though. He sounds like someone who has a lot of hills to die on, and will run roughshod over anyone who tries to stop him.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 5, 2014 12:52:53 GMT -5
Sounds like a job for Dr. Phil!!
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 5, 2014 13:37:23 GMT -5
Sheila - you said your dad's name is pretty well known in the industry. Is there an option with another company similar to yours where you want to move? Since you know the business so well your experience and input could be a real benefit. And you could choose to get paid less and opt for something that's just doing the more fun parts of your job
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 13:41:11 GMT -5
Sam- Yes my actual job has many facets to it that could translate into a few different employment options. I do the AP, AR, GL, Accounting, taxes, payroll, human resources, bidding and estimating, project management, dispatching the drivers, scheduling, etc. There's a good bit that I'd be able to do for another employer. I know a handful of accounting programs too.
PS- I just noticed your "It's a BOY" congratulations
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 5, 2014 13:55:32 GMT -5
Thanks!!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 11:10:29 GMT -5
Backstory- so one of the companies my dad owned he sold in 06 to a large corporation. My sister works for said large corporation and is an accountant at their Midwest HQ (kind of a big deal). My brother previously worked for dad at the company and after he sold out stayed there until corporate HR fired him (my brother) for "problems with co-worker relationships" (he screamed and swore at a co-worker and threatened him and was reported to HR)
This sums up my family: text message from my sister today. "Your fucking brother and his big dumb ass mouth. R came and asked me what his beef with "Corporate company" is. What fucking embarrassing!
One of our former co-workers posted a pic of him at a jobsite with R (the big boss for the region) on FB. And my brother comments bad-mouthing the company about their shitty corporate culture and that said employee should watch his ass, etc.
So essentially he called out my sister's employer on a post her big boss is tagged in and resulted in him coming to her office to tell her about it.
So she tells me in another text: "So pissed. When dad lands I'm calling him about this"
So that's how I found out my parents flew to their vacation home for the next several days and aren't even in the freaking state! GRRRR. I have a pile of crap to go over with him so I can close GL for May and have been forwarding phone calls to his cell all morning. It's days like this that my son is lucky I love him enough to let him finish high school here.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 11:19:55 GMT -5
Your Dads only escape is to actually escape. I'm so sorry for all of you, including your brother who needed boundaries and guidance and seems to have received neither.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 6, 2014 12:52:22 GMT -5
Your Dads only escape is to actually escape. I'm so sorry for all of you, including your brother who needed boundaries and guidance and seems to have received neither. , and Zib put it nicer than I would. I'd send your dad the FB post. And let him know: "This is how DB treats other people, and in the process, gets a family member in hot water. Is this enough for you to realize that he's a Class A douchecanoe?"
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 13:05:00 GMT -5
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 13:13:19 GMT -5
My sister called him and forwarded the screen shots of the offending fb posts to him. He responded with his usual loud sigh and "I'll have a talk with him". Which means pretty much he'll confront my brother, my brother will call my sister a liar (even with the screenshot evidence) and start swearing. My dad will back down and my sister will feel awkward around R for the next couple of weeks.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 13:15:21 GMT -5
Your family needs some serious intervention before two young children are ruined.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 13:18:28 GMT -5
What's sad is the total lack of boundaries. We don't have DFs grandchildren over because they don't behave. If they ever choose to become civilized, our door is open. I blame their parents of course but DF and I don't have to be exposed to it, either. Putting up with it is another form of enabling. So if they didnt see those hellions for awhile? So what? No one else is willing to out up with them and maybe, just maybe the brother would get stuck with what he has reaped. But this goes way deeper than two F d up kids and an F d up brother. There's some serious issues with your parents. Somehow they managed to raise two decent girls but one asshole boy. Why is that?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 6, 2014 13:19:44 GMT -5
They don't need an intervention dad just needs to man up. As a parent you're never told to tell your kid they're being an idiot and it sounds like dear brother needs a spanking to go with it. Make your dad start watching that 70's show and taking tips from Red.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 13:21:13 GMT -5
Daddykins is scared shitless of his wife even. Mommas boy rules the roost. Easier to bury head in sand than grow a pair of balls.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 6, 2014 13:32:24 GMT -5
I think Sheila's dad is trying to strike a hopeless balance between keeping the peace with the family, keeping the peace with his wife and still getting face time with his grandkids. No wonder they escaped to the vacation house.
Sheila, if your dad backs down in the face of FB proof, then severely limiting your time with family other than your own is basically your only option. It's clear that your brother is not only burning every bridge he's ever had, he's throwing away any chance to find the materials to rebuild those burned bridges.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 13:35:57 GMT -5
You and your sister need to go up to cabin and confront parents. Make clear changes are needed or else.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 6, 2014 13:46:33 GMT -5
Sheila, if your dad backs down in the face of FB proof, then severely limiting your time with family other than your own is basically your only option. She's already trying to do this, as I understand it. I'm getting stuck on the big boss going out of state and not letting her know about, esp. since she's trying to finish something that he needs to sign off on (at least that's how I'm interpreting her previous post.)
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jun 6, 2014 13:58:05 GMT -5
Sheila, if your dad backs down in the face of FB proof, then severely limiting your time with family other than your own is basically your only option. She's already trying to do this, as I understand it. I'm getting stuck on the big boss going out of state and not letting her know about, esp. since she's trying to finish something that he needs to sign off on (at least that's how I'm interpreting her previous post.) I was thinking that, too; it's odd for the big boss to just leave, especially knowing there is work to be done that needs his input. And I should clarify the "severely limiting your time with family other than your own" portion of my statement. I'd start avoiding them on the few holidays she still sees them. A difficult and heartbreaking decision, especially for her son, who loves his grandparents. I think the brother is just out to poison and wreck his family relationships. Hate to see this, but Sheila should not be collateral damage. If all the chats with Dad have yet to suffice, then it likely won't ever happen. Sheila could arrange for a separate holiday gathering and leave her brother out of it. And if he whines about being left out, then Sheila can stand up to him and let him know that his attitude sucks and no, he cannot join them. If he decides to rant and rave and swear and threaten while on her territory, then he can be busted for assault. And yes, an assault charge does involve words, not physical contact: Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat.
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