NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 8, 2014 19:56:59 GMT -5
I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. That reminds me (again) that when I was going to counseling, I must have said something about not letting my daughter move back home once she moved out, even if she had children. The psychologist said "Oh, so you'd let your grandchildren be homeless?" I responded " I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren be homeless, their mother would be letting them be homeless". Oh my, how things changed. I'd have given that psychologist a severe kick in the ass for asking the question. Pink, I would have given you a bouquet of roses for answering it with class and directness.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Feb 8, 2014 21:01:02 GMT -5
That reminds me (again) that when I was going to counseling, I must have said something about not letting my daughter move back home once she moved out, even if she had children. The psychologist said "Oh, so you'd let your grandchildren be homeless?" I responded " I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren be homeless, their mother would be letting them be homeless". Oh my, how things changed. I'd have given that psychologist a severe kick in the ass for asking the question. Pink, I would have given you a bouquet of roses for answering it with class and directness. The psychologist has a valid point. Some people say they wouldn't let their kids move in, then can't deal with the guilt when there are grandchildren involved. Pink's response indicated she wouldn't feel guilty, and that is what the psychologist needs to know.
But it doesn't really matter if any of us would consider abortion, adoption, letting them move in etc. Keeping or not keeping the baby is up to Pink's DD. It's also up to her to figure out how to support the kids.
It's up to Pink to decide how much support (financial or otherwise) she is willing to give her DD to help her accomplish this.
Start with providing emotional support. When she says " I don't know what I'm going to do" don't respond with "well, you can move back in here". Instead start by asking her what she is doing for herself.
" Have you applied for section 8" "Have you applied for welfare" "What do you plan to do for a job" "What do you need to do next"
Helping her solve the problem, does not mean being the solution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 8:19:21 GMT -5
Yesterday I got a text from my daughter saying she wasn't feeling living with someone that had a bunch of rules like she was a kid.
Long story short, late last night my son told me she had her BF pick her up and went back to the apartment. WTF?!
The BF's bad behavior is real, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I hadn't believed she was serious about getting out, I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what to do and I wouldn't have posted anything about it here. Sigh
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 9, 2014 8:27:27 GMT -5
Yesterday I got a text from my daughter saying she wasn't feeling living with someone that had a bunch of rules like she was a kid. Long story short, late last night my son told me she had her BF pick her up and went back to the apartment. WTF?! The BF's bad behavior is real, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I hadn't believed she was serious about getting out, I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what to do and I wouldn't have posted anything about it here. Sigh Oh, Pink, I'm so sorry,hon. It sounds like your DD is hell-bent to go in all the wrong directions. She just hasn't learned life is full of rules and she, just like the rest of us, has to follow those rules if she wants to get along in the world. What you're describing reminds me so much of my daughter (at your daughter's age). I wish I had answers for you. As I did when my daughter went through this kind of thing, I wish I had a magic wand to wave to set everything right. Unfortunately, we can't do it for your DD. She has to do it for herself. She's made it pretty clear she's not going to follow the rules in her dad's home, so she's not going to follow them in your home, either. You can count on that. All I can do is offer you my understanding, my condolences, and some big cyber hugs. Not that any of that will help, but I'm afraid it's all I've got. When young people insist on travelling all the wrong roads, there comes a point when there's nothing more you can do. They have to make their mistakes and pay the consequences of those mistakes.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Feb 9, 2014 9:09:51 GMT -5
Yesterday I got a text from my daughter saying she wasn't feeling living with someone that had a bunch of rules like she was a kid. Long story short, late last night my son told me she had her BF pick her up and went back to the apartment. WTF?! The BF's bad behavior is real, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I hadn't believed she was serious about getting out, I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what to do and I wouldn't have posted anything about it here. Sigh Oh boy. If things keep going down or spiral out of control, you may have to go to court to gain custody of your grandchild/children. I'm sorry this is happening for you.
Also, I think this forum is a good place to post things that are deeply troubling or seemingly insolvable. There is a tremendous build-up reservoir of life-experience amongst this community, and I know I have tapped into it numerous times. So would you classify your daughter as incredibly naive', or having some street-wise sense ? If she has some street-wise knowlege, she may be able to work things out for herself in the long run. But, you may have to take her kids away from her if she's going to be in an abusive environment.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me in the past, too !!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 9, 2014 9:14:46 GMT -5
Oh, PINK, I'm so sorry for you and your grandchildren. It sucks. I know so many grandparents raising their grandchildren that its just not funny. They shake their heads and ask where they went wrong but they didn't. Sometimes kids just don't turn out well and sometimes it takes them a long time to get straightened out, if they ever do. 10 years ago, I wouldn't have given you a fig for DD's chances. Today she's pretty darn good. It can happen.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 9, 2014 9:58:41 GMT -5
I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. That reminds me (again) that when I was going to counseling, I must have said something about not letting my daughter move back home once she moved out, even if she had children. The psychologist said "Oh, so you'd let your grandchildren be homeless?" I responded " I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren be homeless, their mother would be letting them be homeless". Oh my, how things changed. That is true. The responsibility does fall on MOM. I am not saying it doesn't. However, if i had my current home where more people could easily live i would not be against having my daughter and grandchildren live with me. But, you are right, you never really know. I might be so ornery by then that she might prefer living under a bridge, who knows?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 10:12:21 GMT -5
Shooby, I wasn't commenting on what you'd said. Later's post just reminded me of the irony of what I'd said in the past.
I'm sad that she'd rather live in the situation with the BF than deal with her Dad's rules. I knew she preferred to stay with me because it would be easier for her. Still, I didn't think she'd go back to the BF rather than live with her dad's "rules".
She's doesn't have a lot of street smarts. She's naïve.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 9, 2014 10:14:51 GMT -5
That! If she thinks a man is the key to solving her problems, she's got a lot more bad coming her way. No way now do you open your door to her because she had sanctuary and didnt want to behave while there.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 9, 2014 10:37:40 GMT -5
Well, the reality is that the burden falls on bio mom more so than bio dad. And, that is a situation we see over and over. So, yes, I would feel compelled to help my daughter much more. But, I also understand that sometimes help must come in the form of tough love as well depending on the situation.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 9, 2014 14:20:01 GMT -5
Next time she gets tired of dealing with boyfriend's crap, just remember that she chose living in that situation to living in a place with common sense ground rules. You can't let her move in with you. She just proved through her actions that she prefers living in an unstable environment to acting like a grown up. If you let her back in your house she's going to be a total pain in the ass and drive you out of it.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Feb 9, 2014 15:52:51 GMT -5
I am afraid this may be correct. If she does move in with you, she won't want to follow your rules either. You may wind up picking up the slack and parenting her children.
Let's hope expecting baby #2 will make her do some growing up.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 9, 2014 17:35:38 GMT -5
Well, you can't make anyone grow up. They either will or won't on their own accord. The reality is that there are grandkids involved who need an adult around them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 17:49:11 GMT -5
Rukh, I'm not even sure if she and her Dad actually talked about what he expected. I already knew most of why she didn't want to go over there, from past experience. A lot of it is lifestyle differences, she thinks her Dad and his wife are realllllly weird. It's true that he's gotten some very strange ideas over the years since we divorced. He's into conspiracy theories, some strange ideas about spirits and such, and some other things. If DD wasn't old enough to know that a lot of the suff he goes on and on about is crazy talk, I would be very concerned about that, and I'd hoped she wouldn't be there long enough for the grandkids to really understand what he drones on about.
Also, I doubt she could have visitors. She didn't have a lot of company when she lived with me, but her best friend since grade school did come over sometimes. She HAS to go to school, which is what I wanted too, but for whatever reason, it has to be one of those schools like Phoenix or something with the short programs, which I don't understand because I don't think that's necessarily the best kind of school. What's wrong with community college? I don't know that DD tried to explain to him why she'd prefer to go to another kind of school, which may have resolved that issue. I don't even know that she really wants to go to any kind of school though.
Other than those things, I don't think his expectations are much different from mine. That she take some responsibility for her life and help out around the house. Well, his wife cooks (DD hates it because they're pretend vegans), and DD had to cook over here if she wanted to eat.
Dark, I think she believes that staying with her boyfriend IS acting like a grown up, because she doesn't live with her parents. Forget about all the important stuff like being able to take care of yourself or working towards being able to do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 17:59:32 GMT -5
I talked to DD briefly today and asked if she'd talked to her Dad since she left last night. She said no, she guess she'll call him when she gets ready to go back over there. I asked "Go back over there for what?" I didn't know if she meant returning to get her things or what. She said when she went back over there to stay, she guesses. I don't know what the heck she was talking about, I'm not sure her Dad will even let her come back now; he's not with that spending the night with your boyfriend stuff or the back and forth thing.
I was at work when we spoke and these past few days of dealing with this has worn me out, so I didn't even try to get any details. I'm done for today.
Again, I appreciate you all sharing your thoughts and advice. And the support means a lot to me. Thank you!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2014 18:18:22 GMT -5
One last thing, I don't want to offend any vegans (Rukh for one, I believe) by calling them pretend vegans. When they eat at/from restaurants with my daughter, they won't order dishes with meat in them, but they'll both eat meat off her plate. All the time. I know several vegetarians and some people that just don't eat meat regularly. They all say they do or will get sick if they eat some after abstaining for so long, especially beef. Her dad and his wife never get sick after eating meat, so I believe they probably eat it more often than they admit to. And from the little I know about the vegan lifestyle, I don't think they would even "taste" the meat on DD's plate if they were serious about being vegans. That's why I call them pretend vegans.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 9, 2014 18:45:11 GMT -5
You know what? I have an aunt who is also into crazy theories. Anyone remember when she thought the Internet and all was going to be down for two days? She also stockpiles food. But if I needed to live with her because I messed up AGAIN, then I need to eat what she eats and be grateful and listen to her nonsense because she is sheltering me and mine because I couldn't be bothered to get my shit together to do it myself. I can't imagine the total ingratitude of someone who is totally dependent on family and taxpayers trying to call the shots. So she can't spend the night with her latest baby daddy? So what? She doesn't have any business spending the night with anyone. The ingratitude amazes me but it shouldn't. She needs to get a CNA and get a JOB pronto. Yes, she will still qualify for everything under the sun because we reward people for messing up but she needs to have not so much time on her hands because she obviously makes poor choices when she has time to do nothing.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 9, 2014 19:46:14 GMT -5
Yesterday I got a text from my daughter saying she wasn't feeling living with someone that had a bunch of rules like she was a kid. Long story short, late last night my son told me she had her BF pick her up and went back to the apartment. WTF?! The BF's bad behavior is real, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I hadn't believed she was serious about getting out, I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what to do and I wouldn't have posted anything about it here. Sigh And if she cannot follow rules at her dad's house, she won't follow them at yours OR anywhere else, such as Section 8 housing. What an effing mess, to put it mildly. I don't want to think of what could be next, such as physical violence from the BF. I've seen too much of that in my line of work. Sometimes, such an incident does finally get a woman's attention and she gets out for good. But there is a child, and another on the way, involved in this situation. The harm could come to all three of them; this douchebag does not sound like someone who cares much about who gets hurt at this point. As of now, I would be prepared for THAT phone call. The one where she calls in the middle of the night, because he's finally snapped and tried to do her bodily harm. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm trying to prepare you, based on professional experience. A guy like this with a record of bad behavior will escalate, because he knows he can control your DD. After all, she keeps going back to him. He knows she'll put up with it, because she has few, if any options. Make sure she knows she has an escape plan, whether it's to you or her dad or a shelter. Make sure there are some essentials and basics packed and ready for her. I'll get flamed for sounding like an alarmist, but that's just too damned bad. I've seen too much of this and I know how too much of it ends.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 10, 2014 0:13:33 GMT -5
I have more than one BIL that is an alcoholic. The one we always thought was the worst got his shit together and straightened himself out about 5 years ago. I always wondered why his wife didn't leave him, I now realize that SIL is bat shit crazy and as long as he is sober, he is more stable than her. Between the 2 they have 4 kids and 2 grand kids. No child was ever in danger from the 2 of them. Granddaughter absolutely adores her grandpa. He spent a lot of time with her while his son did 2 tours overseas.
Being with her babydady may require more from pink's DD but it is not necessarily the wrong decision-her father had a very limited role in her llife which suggests disdunction. Maybe his rules were bad.
Hugs pink.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 10, 2014 6:52:21 GMT -5
Well, it seems parenting is becoming more and more "optional" for people. Especially the men who impregnate women and walk away. It is usually mom left holding the baby and shouldering all the responsibility. Then, I think that just seems like such an overwhelming task to a young woman and she then also tries to escape into irresponsibility. It just seems like a vicious cycle.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Feb 10, 2014 7:11:51 GMT -5
Well, it seems parenting is becoming more and more "optional" for people. Especially the men who impregnate women and walk away. It is usually mom left holding the baby and shouldering all the responsibility. Then, I think that just seems like such an overwhelming task to a young woman and she then also tries to escape into irresponsibility. It just seems like a vicious cycle. This is nothing new, parenting has always been optional for Men. Thats why birth control is so very important to Women.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 10, 2014 7:16:01 GMT -5
No, it wasn't so optional. There was an expectation that men would take care of their families and a lot of shaming involved in those who didn't. So, a society that has decided fathers are expendable are now surprised when they walk away.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 10, 2014 9:23:40 GMT -5
Maybe some women will think twice about screwing everyone that looks their way if they aren't "rewarded" for having another baby they can't support. Just a thought there. But I was married to someone who could support the kids, just became "unemployed" after the divorce and only now in the last few years has worked a job where money could be obtained. I actually contacted the state of Florida because he owes thousands of dollars in back support and alimony. It'll be interesting if they bother to do anything. I'm not thinking they will because I never received govt support. But if I got it, it'd pay for DDs PA school and then some!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 10, 2014 9:35:39 GMT -5
Zib - I can't speak to what FL does but I know in Il back owed child support is always collectible regardless if the family received public support or not.
Actually had a very dear friend from college who's Dad was always "unemployed" (working under the table) until he graduated college. His mom had some sort of lein (don't know all the details) against his wages. When the (deadbeat) dad got a W-2 job his wages were garnished and eventually the Mom got all the back support. As it turns out the Dad finally had to get a real job because girlfriend #X was tired of mostly supporting him.
Apparently the Dad had though there was no obligation for CS after the kids reached majority or graduated college. Turns out he was wrong .
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 10, 2014 9:45:16 GMT -5
I'm going to keep on it. The kids and I didn't struggle because I had a job and with what he couldn't hide in property settlement I managed wisely but it's a boatload of money and I want it. Ill be in Florida the end of the month and ill contact my old attorney as well.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 10, 2014 9:46:28 GMT -5
Pink, I'm sorry. Lots of cyber hugs to you. and it sounds like you could use one of these too! I moved back into my parents house twice. My Mom's coworkers had kids coming home with kids so for them, it was really surprising to hear whatever Mom vented/shared about me with them (no kids but I left the cat behind when I moved out - she loved Mom more than me.) They knew me somewhat, as I worked near her and we'd go out for lunch sometimes and we carpooled at one point.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 10:31:23 GMT -5
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Feb 10, 2014 13:51:45 GMT -5
Yesterday I got a text from my daughter saying she wasn't feeling living with someone that had a bunch of rules like she was a kid. Long story short, late last night my son told me she had her BF pick her up and went back to the apartment. WTF?! The BF's bad behavior is real, I've seen it with my own eyes. If I hadn't believed she was serious about getting out, I wouldn't have been trying to figure out what to do and I wouldn't have posted anything about it here. Sigh And if she cannot follow rules at her dad's house, she won't follow them at yours OR anywhere else, such as Section 8 housing. What an effing mess, to put it mildly. I don't want to think of what could be next, such as physical violence from the BF. I've seen too much of that in my line of work. Sometimes, such an incident does finally get a woman's attention and she gets out for good. But there is a child, and another on the way, involved in this situation. The harm could come to all three of them; this douchebag does not sound like someone who cares much about who gets hurt at this point. As of now, I would be prepared for THAT phone call. The one where she calls in the middle of the night, because he's finally snapped and tried to do her bodily harm. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm trying to prepare you, based on professional experience. A guy like this with a record of bad behavior will escalate, because he knows he can control your DD. After all, she keeps going back to him. He knows she'll put up with it, because she has few, if any options. Make sure she knows she has an escape plan, whether it's to you or her dad or a shelter. Make sure there are some essentials and basics packed and ready for her. I'll get flamed for sounding like an alarmist, but that's just too damned bad. I've seen too much of this and I know how too much of it ends. When you said that phone call, i thought you were talking about the one where someone is in the hospital or worse. I am so sorry you're dealing with this Pink
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 10, 2014 14:02:20 GMT -5
And if she cannot follow rules at her dad's house, she won't follow them at yours OR anywhere else, such as Section 8 housing. What an effing mess, to put it mildly. I don't want to think of what could be next, such as physical violence from the BF. I've seen too much of that in my line of work. Sometimes, such an incident does finally get a woman's attention and she gets out for good. But there is a child, and another on the way, involved in this situation. The harm could come to all three of them; this douchebag does not sound like someone who cares much about who gets hurt at this point. As of now, I would be prepared for THAT phone call. The one where she calls in the middle of the night, because he's finally snapped and tried to do her bodily harm. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm trying to prepare you, based on professional experience. A guy like this with a record of bad behavior will escalate, because he knows he can control your DD. After all, she keeps going back to him. He knows she'll put up with it, because she has few, if any options. Make sure she knows she has an escape plan, whether it's to you or her dad or a shelter. Make sure there are some essentials and basics packed and ready for her. I'll get flamed for sounding like an alarmist, but that's just too damned bad. I've seen too much of this and I know how too much of it ends. When you said that phone call, i thought you were talking about the one where someone is in the hospital or worse.
I am so sorry you're dealing with this Pink That is exactly what I meant. I speak not from personal experience, but professional experience. Which is why I probably sound somewhat harsh and cold. It's not meant to be. But I've seen a lot of this. And the scenario Pink has presented, as it is currently progressing, will likely not have a good and happy ending. Once a bad guy knows he can pull your strings and draw you back in, he will. And when there are no other viable options, and you wind up pulled back into a situation like this, it gets harder and harder to see your way clear to leave.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 10, 2014 16:13:08 GMT -5
We're being pretty harsh on the guy based on a couple posts about how Pink feels about him. Mother in Laws never like the schmuck who impregnates their daughter out of wedlock and screws up their life. She hasn't said he's ever hit her. She's said he's young, duh, so is Pink's daughter. She's said he drinks, I'm betting Pink's daughter does too, they're young twenty somethings, lots of them drink fairly regularly. She's said he has issues. So does Pink's daughter. Maybe the guy really is a raging asshole that's just looking for an excuse to beat the hell out of Pink's daughter. Or, it's just as likely that he's just a dumb kid with a lot of growing up to do, exactly like Pink's daughter but with a penis.
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