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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 14:49:09 GMT -5
Oooooh Shooby, don't tempt fate like that. Just pray you are never in a position to have to make that choice. I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Feb 7, 2014 14:56:39 GMT -5
I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. My MIL has a favorite phrase: "My hips are this wide from all the words I've had to eat." So true.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 7, 2014 15:08:39 GMT -5
As it stands, there's no knight in shining armor coming in to fix any of this. If Pink decides to take mother and child (and soon to be second child) in, she will be facing a repeat of the misery she faced the last time - the misery that literally drove her out of her own home. I called that unfair and I still do. Unless, of course, Pink faces the hard task of spelling out how things will be done this time. Even from a parent in this situation, it should be a hand up, not a handout.
Nancy has some very good points here, Pink. I think if you do allow your daughter and her son to move back in, there needs to be some ground rules that YOU need to be able to live in your own home comfortably. And I think you really need to be a hard ass about those rules, to the point where your daughter will no longer be welcome there.
I think if you make the rules stringent enough that it's uncomfortable for your daughter, then perhaps she might work harder to become self sufficient, and not rely on the next guy who happens by. One of those rules should be that your daughter WILL be on some sort of semi-permanent birth control, or there will be 3 babies with 3 baby daddies.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 7, 2014 15:10:45 GMT -5
I get that this is your hot button topic, but try to remember that this is Pink's daughter not some statistic you can rip apart based on personal bias. Pink said she IS looking for work. Living with parents isn't usually a source of pride for young adults. I'm sure her daughter was happy when she felt like she was in a position to move out on her own, and isn't thrilled at the idea of having to tuck tail and come back especially so soon and under these circumstances. Rae, under different circumstances, I'd agree with you. But this is a second go-round for Pink's DD. A second pregnancy, a second baby daddy, and a second return to the nest. You're right about it not being a source of pride for anyone to return home to mom and dad. In this case, I don't think pride is an issue or an option. I think the DD sees this as a default option and knows she can do it when she makes mistakes and does not want to clean up a mess of her own making. I'm not saying the fathers are not responsible, too. But it does not appear that either will be taking much part in what they did - one does not live nearby and the other has another child to contend with. As it stands, there's no knight in shining armor coming in to fix any of this. If Pink decides to take mother and child (and soon to be second child) in, she will be facing a repeat of the misery she faced the last time - the misery that literally drove her out of her own home. I called that unfair and I still do. Unless, of course, Pink faces the hard task of spelling out how things will be done this time. Even from a parent in this situation, it should be a hand up, not a handout. This is a very tough spot for Pink to be in. It's not fair and she has to think about herself in addition to her dd and dgk. I just don't think that we need to denigrate into belittling Pink's daughter based on the YM stereotype of welfare mom's. That doesn't help Pink, or her daughter, or the thread. A little compassion goes a long way which was the point of my post.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 7, 2014 15:33:05 GMT -5
And at this point, Pink's DD is in a pretty tough spot. It's easy to say "get a job," but in this market, I'm not sure what places will hire a visibly pregnant woman for an entry-level job. Without a job, hard to find somewhere to live. And regardless of what mistakes she has made, I would NEVER tell my pregnant daughter she couldn't stay with me when her only other immediate option is to live with someone who has a risk of becoming violent the next time he drinks. (And I'm a hardass). I do think that after the baby is born things will get easier - at least easier to find a job and a place to live (and from what Pink has posted, I think she's in a LCOLA or MCOLA - possible for someone to support 2 kids on minimum wage if they're getting daycare subsidies, WIC, etc. Not a glamorous life, but doable). I think most YMers are far enough removed from our early 20s that we forget just how stupid we were back then. There but for the grace of God...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 15:48:55 GMT -5
Rae, I've learned that I have to have a thick skin if I post about certain things here, but thank you!
I remember clearly that i made some of the same poor decisions when I was my daughter's age. I already had 2 kids when I was the age she is now. It doesn't really matter that I was married, I still wasn't prepared for children.
That's why I tried to teach my children to be smarter. I talked to them more than my Mom ever did me. I put DD on birth control when she was in high school and stressed that she needed to live some and make something of herself before she had any kids.
I never went through all the things she's going through, but being a single Mom isn't easy even if you are financially independant and of course I tried to encourage my daughter to set herself up where she wouldn't have to struggle unnecessairly.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 7, 2014 15:52:25 GMT -5
Rae, I've learned that I have to have a thick skin if I post about certain things here, but thank you! I remember clearly that i made some of the same poor decisions when I was my daughter's age. I already had 2 kids when I was the age she is now. It doesn't really matter that I was married, I still wasn't prepared for children. That's why I tried to teach my children to be smarter. I talked to them more than my Mom ever did me. I put DD on birth control when she was in high school and stressed that she needed to live some and make something of herself before she had any kids. I never went through all the things she's going through, but being a single Mom isn't easy even if you are financially independant and of course I tried to encourage my daughter to set herself up where she wouldn't have to struggle unnecessairly. I have to respectfully disagree with this in a major way. Having two adults committed (hopefully) to provding for and investing time in a child is multiple times better than having one person trying to do it solo. Marriage may not ALWAYS produce a more favorable outcome, but it does in statistically significantly more instances than does single parents.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 7, 2014 16:04:45 GMT -5
Rae, Mid, I agree with both of you. And there's no way I'd want the DD to live with the baby daddy under the circumstances presented. But Pink will have to temper compassion with a backbone. Or she will have a daughter who is the stereotype of the YM welfare mom. And worse, the cycle gets stronger and the grandkids get caught in it. Having a plan and enforcing it with a firm but compassionate hand means the cycle stops NOW.
Right now, I'd get the lists started, beginning with the most vital and basic things. Like getting child support for these kids. She may not want to go after them, but that's not the issue. The men are responsible for their kids. I doubt the money will add up to Coach purses and crab legs (to use a YM welfare expression), but it's a contribution.
If furniture, bedding, baby items, etc., are needed, then it's time to go get those things. Freecycle, thrift stores, friends, neighbors, Craigslist?
Maternity care? What is DD getting? Is she set up at a hospital/clinic for delivery at this point? Midwife?
Child care for one, and soon two kids?
Once those things are set, it's time to look ahead. Job, job training, or both? Set the money aside for future rent?
Social services and support groups: Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies is a good one. Most states and a number of big cities have resources for new and expectant mothers. They are free or low-cost, run by colleges, universities, health care systems, hospitals. I Googled "programs for new and expectant mothers" and got over 1 1/2 million hits.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 7, 2014 16:15:58 GMT -5
Some pregnancy centers also offer help with resumes/job interviews and counseling/parenting classes. She might get lucky and they can help find her temp work thru pregnancy.
I wouldn't make them live on the streets but I'm totally clueless on how to go about getting someone in Pink's DD's situation what she needs.
A condition for moving back in would be she needs to tour/consult with several of the centers in the area, pick one and get herself involved in all the coursework they offer.
She might be more open to listening to a "professional" than mom. Pink can warn all she wants but sitting down with a social worker may really drive it home.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2014 16:21:35 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be mean but because Pink's DD knows that she won't let her grandchildren live like rats, she holds the trump cards. I have a friend who is going throu this right now. Thankfully with only one grandchild by a loser but still, baby momma and grandchild live with them because my friend couldn't handle the idea of letting her grandchild live in the ghetto. Baby momma takes full advantage of that fact. Her husband has moved out and is filing for divorce. But it's all about baby momma and the drama and that grandchild.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 7, 2014 16:31:10 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be mean but because Pink's DD knows that she won't let her grandchildren live like rats, she holds the trump cards. I have a friend who is going throu this right now. Thankfully with only one grandchild by a loser but still, baby momma and grandchild live with them because my friend couldn't handle the idea of letting her grandchild live in the ghetto. Baby momma takes full advantage of that fact. Her husband has moved out and is filing for divorce. But it's all about baby momma and the drama and that grandchild. And sadly, I don't think Zib is being mean about this. Realistic, yes. Mean, no. I'd never want to see anyone's kids live on the streets. I've said it before: the kids (current and the one on the way) did not cause this. But their mama has to step up and realize she has no control over the past, only what she has to work with now. And that means growing a set of (figurative) balls and a spine, getting the child support money, contacting local services and consolidating her energy and efforts into making a good and stable life for herself and her kids, without playing her mother like an orchestra. Hey, it's nice to be coddled and fawned over and taken care of when you are pregnant, or have just given birth. This is one mama who really does not have the luxury.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 7, 2014 16:38:37 GMT -5
For me personally my daughter would live with me. That is my approach and how I would handle it. Y mmv.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 16:43:12 GMT -5
For me personally my daughter would live with me. That is my approach and how I would handle it. Y mmv. regardless of how many times she did the baby mama thing?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Feb 7, 2014 16:48:53 GMT -5
I'm not trying to be mean but because Pink's DD knows that she won't let her grandchildren live like rats, she holds the trump cards. I have a friend who is going throu this right now. Thankfully with only one grandchild by a loser but still, baby momma and grandchild live with them because my friend couldn't handle the idea of letting her grandchild live in the ghetto. Baby momma takes full advantage of that fact. Her husband has moved out and is filing for divorce. But it's all about baby momma and the drama and that grandchild. And sadly, I don't think Zib is being mean about this. Realistic, yes. Mean, no. I'd never want to see anyone's kids live on the streets. I've said it before: the kids (current and the one on the way) did not cause this. But their mama has to step up and realize she has no control over the past, only what she has to work with now. And that means growing a set of (figurative) balls and a spine, getting the child support money, contacting local services and consolidating her energy and efforts into making a good and stable life for herself and her kids, without playing her mother like an orchestra. Hey, it's nice to be coddled and fawned over and taken care of when you are pregnant, or have just given birth. This is one mama who really does not have the luxury. I respectfully disagree on the basis that not all people become a statistic. Daughter already has a great head start because Pink cares for her and wants more for her, and from what Pink has posted, daughter wants more for herself too. She doesn't know how to get there though. Look, I'm not saying that Pink should coddle or enable her. That Pink has to let them move in or provide financially for them. I just don't think that YM needs to trod all over her daughters situation either, or forecast doom for her future. People grow and change, and hopefully this is the point that Daughter will make changes.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 7, 2014 16:52:05 GMT -5
That is all well and good, but what specific steps should she take? The BF wants her out now, and she doesn't have a job. I'm assuming she also has no money. Does she go to a shelter? A cheap motel? What then? She'll need transportation and probably internet access to do the research into what to do next. It can take months to get a child support order in place, and signing up for welfare programs takes time. What does she do in the meantime to keep a roof over her head?
I agree that living with Pink is not a viable long-term solution, and won't do her much good in the personal-growth arena, but IMO it's easy to say "get a job, sign up for programs, grow a spine," while the actual logistics are a bit fuzzier.
(DH and I moved in with ILs for 6 months after graduation, when neither of us had jobs. A much different situation, but when we weren't sure we'd be able to live with them and were down to our last $1K or so, with no car, I was running through our options - and they were pretty damn slim. And that was with 2 adults and no kids and a small cash cushion...)
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Feb 7, 2014 16:58:58 GMT -5
I doubt Pink wants to go this route, but we have what is called a crisis nursery here and they can take in kids in a temporary situation while the parents get themselves together. I doubt I would suggest that route for Pink to tell her daughter to take, but I would have had no idea it existed except they talk about it on the news doing fundraising, etc.
I'm glad I'm not Pink. I'm also glad I'm not Pink's daughter. Neither situation sounds like fun.
Pink Hugs to you. I would recommend your DD getting WIC, Medicaid while pregnant. Our doula foundation has a ton of resources if you qualify for WIC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 16:59:54 GMT -5
DD is moving in with her Dad. Still not independant but at least the pressure is off as far as worrying that she needs to be out before the weekend, when her boyfiend is more likely to act a fool.
I'll be back when I get home.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 7, 2014 17:04:34 GMT -5
I set out a few steps in an earlier post:
Right now, I'd get the lists started, beginning with the most vital and basic things. Like getting child support for these kids. She may not want to go after them, but that's not the issue. The men are responsible for their kids. I doubt the money will add up to Coach purses and crab legs (to use a YM welfare expression), but it's a contribution.
If furniture, bedding, baby items, etc., are needed, then it's time to go get those things. Freecycle, thrift stores, friends, neighbors, Craigslist?
Maternity care? What is DD getting? Is she set up at a hospital/clinic for delivery at this point? Midwife?
Child care for one, and soon two kids?
Once those things are set, it's time to look ahead. Job, job training, or both? Set the money aside for future rent?
Social services and support groups: Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies is a good one. Most states and a number of big cities have resources for new and expectant mothers. They are free or low-cost, run by colleges, universities, health care systems, hospitals. I Googled "programs for new and expectant mothers" and got over 1 1/2 million hits.
This girl has to get a definitive start somewhere. I also said she would be unlikely to get a job at the stage of pregnancy she is currently in.
The logistics are only as fuzzy for as long as they are allowed to be. Or for as long as the fuzzy rose-colored glasses remain in place.
She needs structure and rules and at least in Pink's house, they will be there, provided Pink provides them. At this stage, I don't think the daughter will do so on her own. That does not make her a bad person. Just one who has some growing up to do.
ETA: I posted before I read Pink's latest about the move to the Dad's place. Good. I'm glad she will be somewhere safe, and there is now a means to take the next steps.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2014 17:31:52 GMT -5
Good luck to all concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 18:31:56 GMT -5
First let me say that I'm not ignoring your advice Nancy, that IF I do let her move back home to set the rules about what I expect to happen. Problem is, I've already been through that. There was a time when I stayed in her ass about what she was going to do, and privately I was constantly trying to figure out how I could help her do what needs to be done. Finally, I realized I was only driving myself crazy trying to figure out her problems. So I let a lot of it go. I couldn't MAKE anyone hire her, I couldn't MAKE her seem more motivated so I would be willing to buy her a car to help with the logistics, I couldn't MAKE her figure out a career she was interested in so she could go to school/get training for it, I couldn't MAKE my Mom keep her word to my daughter when she offered to take my daughter to work and keep the baby when she did have a job, I couldn't MAKE my daughter not act like she was depressed, I couldn't MAKE her get professional help. I was still clear about what needed to happen and that she couldn't stay here forever, but I stopped trying to figure it all out. It was too much stress on top of stress for me.
I still carry her on my insurance. The only out of pocket pregnancy related expense she had with my grandson was the $30 copay for the visit that confirmed her pregnancy. And that ended up being a high-risk, very expensive pregnancy. I think she does have medicaid too though, because my grandson has it.
As far as other government benefits, she knows to apply for WIC. She did eventually get daycare assistance when she had her last job, so she's in the system I guess. There is a requirement that she go for job training (which doesn't sound to me like anything serious is happening when she goes) and now that she's not working she also has to prove she's filling out applications to keep her case open so that when she does find a job, the baby can go back to daycare. When she went last week, when DD told whoever she deals that she'd had an interview but they didn't hire her, the lady responded "well, you're really showing now....", implying that she probably won't be able to get a job right now. I think it's unlikely myself. She applied for food stamps when she had my grandson, but in my state, if you're under 22yo (it might be 21, I can't remember which one) and living with a parent, it's based on the parent's income even if you have children of your own. I made too much money for that, and it wasn't a big deal to me to buy enough food for her and the baby when I went grocery shopping. She's old enough now to get them on her own.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 7, 2014 18:36:38 GMT -5
Good for you. Stay out of it. Time for her father to deal with it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 18:54:15 GMT -5
She's not thrilled about living with her Dad for several reasons. That's ok. It might turn out to be what she needs.
Years ago, I told my daughter she never has to stay somewhere where she's being abused, I don't care how old she is. I meant it. And given her boyfriend's prior behavior, I was afraid that since he'd made it clear he wanted her out, it could turn into an abusive situation the next time he had too much to drink. She chose to leave that night (and I don't blame her) and she spent the night here last night. I still kept telling her she needed to talk to her Dad because I didn't want us to pick up where we left off a few months ago. I know and she knows that I would've let her stay if her Dad said she couldn't stay there, but as much as I love her and want to help her, I just don't think living with me is the best solution for either of us. As much as she didn't want to, she asked him if she could live with him, and fortunately he agreed. Now we go from there.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Feb 7, 2014 20:02:49 GMT -5
Rae, I've learned that I have to have a thick skin if I post about certain things here, but thank you! I remember clearly that i made some of the same poor decisions when I was my daughter's age. I already had 2 kids when I was the age she is now. It doesn't really matter that I was married, I still wasn't prepared for children. That's why I tried to teach my children to be smarter. I talked to them more than my Mom ever did me. I put DD on birth control when she was in high school and stressed that she needed to live some and make something of herself before she had any kids. I never went through all the things she's going through, but being a single Mom isn't easy even if you are financially independant and of course I tried to encourage my daughter to set herself up where she wouldn't have to struggle unnecessairly. I have to respectfully disagree with this in a major way. Having two adults committed (hopefully) to provding for and investing time in a child is multiple times better than having one person trying to do it solo. Marriage may not ALWAYS produce a more favorable outcome, but it does in statistically significantly more instances than does single parents. Marriage was my major mistake. I should have just skipped that endeavor and went it alone from the beginning. After a whole lot of drama and money spent, single parent is what I ended up being. I could have skipped a whole lot of trauma by not trying to get the other parent to be a parent. i had my daughter, her father left the hospital about 10 minutes later. He returned when we were discharged and drove us home. Upon arrival into the house, I see his suitcase and ski gear. That right, he left for a ski trip. we ended up having a bad snow storm, in which I had to shovel and plow the driveway with an atv (still physical) about 48 hours postpartum. My, at the time 18 year old, brother was trying to get home to help me, when he lost control of his truck and ended up in someone's living room. Needless to say that weekend was the first sign of many, that my ex was not interested in being a parent. He was 26 when she was born so we were not talking a young kid either.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 7, 2014 20:10:32 GMT -5
Women's shelter. That's literally the exact situation that they exist to help with. The staff will know how to get her signed up for benefits.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 20:59:23 GMT -5
Pink, it's great that her dad is willing to take her in, and I'm glad the pressure is off you.
In English, we have the expression "badly raised". In French, there is also another expression, "learned badly". That expression is for the kids we did all we could for (AS YOU DID), but, it just didn't work. Because sometimes, it doesn't, and it's NOT necessarily a reflection on us.
You did A LOT for your DD, and for your grandson.
Nobody knows how things are going to pan out for your DD, nor for your GS, nor for the new baby. But in the meantime, given the fact that her dad is willing to take them in, they're out of danger, and you're off the hook, at least for now.
At this risk of getting slayed for this, you did all you could, it didn't work. Now let her Dad / your ex try. There are SO many variables ... the position your DD is in, her dad's attitude, her (hopefully) increased maturity. It's not fair, but you raised her, her dad didn't, so maybe he's "more desireable" in your DD's eyes, because he was less accessible while she was growing up.
Maybe she is more likely to follow his advice, or maybe he will be harder with her than you could bear to be. Dunno.
Hugs to you Pink.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 8, 2014 14:54:26 GMT -5
Oooooh Shooby, don't tempt fate like that. Just pray you are never in a position to have to make that choice. I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. Shooby, bloom would never said anything to hurt anyone. She is just that...weak, so please, do not even think that. And remember we are all wish to be Canadians after what they said “The games have always been a little gay. Let’s fight to keep them that way.”
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 8, 2014 14:55:54 GMT -5
I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. Hey! You guys hided for so long how funny you are! www.buzzfeed.com/maycie/canadas-response-to-russias-russias-anti-lgbt-propaganda-law
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 15:51:04 GMT -5
Oh we know how funny we are. Just most of the time you don't get it.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 8, 2014 17:29:46 GMT -5
I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. And I am addressing this particular situation and giving My response. So thanks but I am capable of speaking my own opinion without your help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2014 17:57:12 GMT -5
I didn't know giving my opinion on a current situation is "tempting fate" so I really don't appreciate you trying to wish ill will on me. I wasn't wishing ill will on you. From what I have seen, people that say "I would never/could never/will never" very often end up finding themselves in circumstances where they have to do just that thing. That reminds me (again) that when I was going to counseling, I must have said something about not letting my daughter move back home once she moved out, even if she had children. The psychologist said "Oh, so you'd let your grandchildren be homeless?" I responded " I wouldn't be letting my grandchildren be homeless, their mother would be letting them be homeless". Oh my, how things changed.
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