Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 1, 2013 10:18:21 GMT -5
DS (8yo with high functioning autism) has been part of cub scouts for two years now. DH does it with him so I have minimal contact with the group. I love the program though - the troop leader is awesome in all the activities she has the boys do. It's a really fun and educational experience. Anyway, the few times I have participated in activities I've noticed pretty quickly that DS is either ignored by the other kids are subtly picked on. Ignoring is fine as I get he is socially awkward, however the mean things get to me. Things like other boys calling him stupid and that he shouldn't attempt chess, or all going to an activity together but not allowing DS to join them. Little things, but it happens EVERY TIME I've been with the group. DH admits if the troop is doing something and there is a "bad" role, DS always gets that role. Unfortunately, the boy who causes DS the most grief is the troop leader's son. They also go to school together, and he's mean to DS there as well. The boys had their first overnight camp last week and when DH/DS came home DH told me that a few of the boys were carrying DS around and deliberately set him down in a wet pool of urine (it was the "outdoor bathroom" where many of the boys peed while in their teepees). When DH confronted them about it they lied and said they didn't know it was pee, except DH had heard one of the boys tell DS it was pee when DS complained about his shirt getting wet. Of course, the kid who instigated the drop and lied to DH was the troop leader's son. ANYWAY, I was pissed. It took me a day, but I worked really hard on a calm email to send to the parents that explained to them DS's autism (DH hadn't told the troop) and that I wanted them to be aware of the incident. I very specifically said I wasn't interested in punishing the boys, but I thought it was an excellent "teachable moment" in that each family could discuss disabilities, bullying, compassion, tolerance, etc. I said the boys didn't have to be artificially friendly to DS, but that DS's presence could potentially be good for the troop in giving them some exposure to people who are different. So, the troop leader found out it was her son who was the main culprit and took away his electronics for a month. Honestly, this seems really severe to me and I wonder if I've made things worse. Not that the kid doesn't totally deserve it (I could list a dozen stories about how he mistreats DS) but I've never had to do anything remotely that tough with my kids. The worst punishment they've ever had is maybe a 10 minute time out in their rooms. So now I'm worried that this kid is going to hate my son even more, and my well-intentioned letter will backfire and just end up escalating the quasi-bullying this kid dishes to my son. Course, DH is a non-confrontational type so he's pissed I even told the other parents. DS is completely over the experience and remembers camp as this great time. So I'm wondering if I should have handled things differently. What would you have done?
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 1, 2013 10:24:52 GMT -5
If I had refrained from physically striking that child, it would have been a miracle. And there is not a chance in hell that I would not have completely lost my shit and screamed. So, I'm thinking my advice is not what you are looking for.<BR><BR>Good luck to you! It sounds like you are a much calmer and more forgiving soul than I. I hope that things get better for your son.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 10:45:52 GMT -5
How could the troop leader not have even a tiny inking about what was going on here considering there were multiple incidences? I think she's as much to blame as her "dear son".
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Aug 1, 2013 10:47:09 GMT -5
Why didn't your husband handle it? He's the one who was there. It's not up to you to tell parents about "teachable moments" and how they should deal with their sons...that's not your place. Your son was mistreated and you only needed to tell the leader, particularly in that it was her son. I would have left it to her as to how she'd handle it. What she decided to do is also.....none of your business.
The fact that you think that her punishment was too severe would lead me to question your parenting choices....but...again....that's your business.
The fact that your son seemed to have a good time points to that this has become more of your problem than his. It's good that he wasn't bothered by it as much as one might think due to the nature of the bullying.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 1, 2013 10:50:27 GMT -5
How could the troop leader not have even a tiny inking about what was going on here considering there were multiple incidences? I think she's as much to blame as her "dear son". Agree. There is a clearly a pattern of bad behavior, and if SK has seen it at every gathering she has been to I don't see how it could have gone entirely unnoticed by the troop leader or other adults involved in the program. Obviously SK is more aware and on the lookout for that sort of behavior because it is her son - but I don't believe that the others could have been oblivious to it.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 1, 2013 10:54:00 GMT -5
if it was my child doing the bullying, I would beat his ass.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 1, 2013 10:54:23 GMT -5
I have nothing to add but to remind you that someone who is socially awkward had better get used to people treating him like shit, because this is how the big bad world works.
Now I don't mean you shouldn't have intervened. Your son is still a kid after all, and what that other kids did cross a line. As a parent, I'd want to know if my kids were doing something that awful. I think you did the other parent a favor letting them know that his kid was acting like a jerk.
Honestly, I have no idea whether or not you did the right thing or what else you can do. Good luck. You sound like a classy lady.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 1, 2013 10:54:36 GMT -5
If I had refrained from physically striking that child, it would have been a miracle. And there is not a chance in hell that I would not have completely lost my shit and screamed. So, I'm thinking my advice is not what you are looking for. Good luck to you! It sounds like you are a much calmer and more forgiving soul than I. I hope that things get better for your son. Then again, I hated every Scout experience with my oldest DS because the parents of the kids were the same clique-y bunch that had been such fun during T-ball. I have no idea what I'd have done. ETA: and as far as the punishment the one kid got, my kid would be lucky to even know there were electronics in the world for way longer than a month.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 10:55:09 GMT -5
if it was my child doing the bullying, I would beat his ass. ROFL!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 1, 2013 10:55:56 GMT -5
Telling the parents was the right thing to do. I don't think the other kids mom overreacting at all. I think that a great many parents out there have no idea how their kids are really behaving when their parents aren't around. I'm sure she was shocked and embarrassed about her son's behavior.
My DH is non-confrontational as well and would have cringed if I had sent that email. He would have just pulled DS out of scouting and found him a different activity.
What you have really is a teachable moment for those kids. I don't know how open you are about sharing your son's diagnosis but it may help to talk to the kids and their parents as a group (with or without your son being present- that's up to you). The adults will know what autism is but unless they have a child on the spectrum they may still be pretty ill informed. At 8 the kids probably only notice that your DS is slightly different from them.
I have issues with scouting that I won't drag out here because it's not relevant to your current situation. I do think that in it's purest form a activity like scouting should be about teaching the kids to be good stewards of the world and people around them. Right now they aren't there yet- but they are still young. Now is the time to get to them and teach them to be kind to everyone around them.
I hope you are able to resolve this and that your son can enjoy his time in scouting.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 1, 2013 10:56:45 GMT -5
It's not up to you to tell parents about "teachable moments" and how they should deal with their sons...that's not your place.
I disagree. It is when it involves HER child. I didn't get the impression she was telling them how to deal with their sons. She only notified the parents about their sons behavior. Parents should know if their kids are acting likes little shits.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 1, 2013 11:00:04 GMT -5
Why didn't your husband handle it? He's the one who was there. It's not up to you to tell parents about "teachable moments" and how they should deal with their sons...that's not your place. Your son was mistreated and you only needed to tell the leader, particularly in that it was her son. I would have left it to her as to how she'd handle it. What she decided to do is also.....none of your business. The fact that you think that her punishment was too severe would lead me to question your parenting choices....but...again....that's your business. The fact that your son seemed to have a good time points to that this has become more of your problem than his. It's good that he wasn't bothered by it as much as one might think due to the nature of the bullying. Does it matter now why her husband didn't handle it? He didn't, and she can't go back and change that - so does that mean that she should let that sort of behavior just go on unchecked? I disagree that she only needed to tell the leader. If it was just the leader's kid that may be the case - but if there are multiple children mistreading your kid, I think you are well within reason to point it out to all of the parents involved. I would want to know if my kid was acting like a jerk so that I could address it.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 1, 2013 11:00:07 GMT -5
If I had refrained from physically striking that child, it would have been a miracle. And there is not a chance in hell that I would not have completely lost my shit and screamed. So, I'm thinking my advice is not what you are looking for. Good luck to you! It sounds like you are a much calmer and more forgiving soul than I. I hope that things get better for your son. Pretty much what she said. Clearly, I haven't learned to handle things gracefully just yet
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 1, 2013 11:02:41 GMT -5
Kids do all sorts of underhanded things when they think they can get away with it. It would be impossible for the troop leader to be able to see every single thing that goes on every single minute of the day.
I'm assuming that your DH didn't want to further embarrass your son by making a big deal about it in the moment. It would have further ostracized your son and most likely the attention would have made him even more uncomfortable. He probably should have pulled the leader and adults off to the side and said something rather than wait until after the whole thing was over.
If my kid was acting like a little shit I'd want to know.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2013 11:04:18 GMT -5
Taking eletronics for a month would be the least of my kid's worries if I found out she was behaving like that.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 1, 2013 11:05:58 GMT -5
First of all, kudos for how you handled the situation. I frankly think the troop leader's son deserves a boot in the a$$, but that's just me. I have no problem with him losing his electronics for a month, or getting grounded, or whatever.
Seriously, I think your DH needs to "grow a pair". The way this generation of kids acts, if you don't confront bad behavior, it only gets worse. My sympathy to how poorly your son was treated by kids who should be "friends", or at least show a lot more empathy.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Aug 1, 2013 11:06:55 GMT -5
To me it sounds like you did the right thing. You let mommy know what her little darling was doing to a child that was 'different'. And if he is this way at age 8, think what he would be like at age 16. Setting your son in a puddle of *** is just plain mean.
Hopefully the troop leader will take this electronic time off to really educate her son about the 'unbeautiful' people. There are more plain and different people than beautiful. Get this stopped now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 11:08:45 GMT -5
him being autistic shouldn't even matter -- you don't throw ANYONE into a puddle of pee.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 1, 2013 11:09:28 GMT -5
OK, so I made it pretty clear that I am usually in a camp of "deal with YOUR child and teach him how to handle stupid people out there" vs let's try to change stupid people.
That being said, all bets are off when your child has any kind of disability or is not understanding what is going on.
I don't know what I would have done, bc my end goal of little jerks not being little jerks is not that attainable.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. this is fucked up
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 11:09:43 GMT -5
Boys will be boys. Just wait until they are in college and this happens.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Aug 1, 2013 11:11:10 GMT -5
I am seriously thankful that I don't have kids!! I would be in jail for rubbing that little shit's face right in that puddle of pee if I had been around. LMAO. I think I'm kidding, but I'm not entirely sure? Yeah, clearly I haven't learned to handle things graciously either. Or without rage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 11:16:53 GMT -5
Kids do all sorts of underhanded things when they think they can get away with it. It would be impossible for the troop leader to be able to see every single thing that goes on every single minute of the day. I'm assuming that your DH didn't want to further embarrass your son by making a big deal about it in the moment. It would have further ostracized your son and most likely the attention would have made him even more uncomfortable. He probably should have pulled the leader and adults off to the side and said something rather than wait until after the whole thing was over. If my kid was acting like a little shit I'd want to know. If this was a one-time occurrence I would agree. But SK said it's happened at every meeting she's been to (and most likely the ones she hasn't). Fine that a leader can't see everything that goes on, but it stands to reason that she should have witnessed SOMETHING at some point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 11:19:37 GMT -5
maybe you shouldn't have said anything, and then the next time they are on a long hike perhaps this kid will take a drink from his canteen and then "magically" get the runs....
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 1, 2013 11:31:21 GMT -5
I think you did the right thing. How the instigator's mother handled the situation is not your problem; nor, should it be your concern. It's important, however, to watch going forward to ensure the bullying doesn't escalate. The other youngsters in the troop can learn from this, as well, if the leader is really capable and willing to use what's happened as a springboard to education about human differences. I'm sorry your boy had to be picked on, but it sounds like he's taken it well and gone on to other things. Just be watchful and let your husband know he has to be watchful, as well ... and, perhaps, a bit more proactive. Good luck!
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 1, 2013 11:31:33 GMT -5
DS is fine now because he just doesn't perceive meanness in other kids unless it is REALLY overt. Dropping him in urine wasn't overt enough. Yes, this will be a larger issue as he gets older. He just doesn't perceive most social cues and I could easily see other kids manipulating him to steal for them or whatever. He is VERY naive and simple and just loves everyone. Yes, I want to beat the little shits up. I tried REALLY hard to be calm. There were 4-6 boys involved, and DH isn't even sure enough of the names of some of the kids so that's why I emailed the entire troop. We absolutely know the troop leader's kid was the ringleader and that he lied to DH. The troop leader is very driven - her standards for her kids are achievement based rather than character based. She proudly considers her son a leader (of course, so was Hitler ). I honestly think she doesn't see his meanness because he swims competitively and gets good grades. I think the issue is I have to figure out how to defend against bullying. Something may seem correct on paper but in the "real world" it could exacerbate a situation. Unfortunately since DS doesn't perceive things, I find it hard to step in. If DH hadn't told me about the incident I never would have known (and boy does he regret telling me about it). Yes, DH fears the boys will be meaner to DS if they know he has autism which is why he's never told anyone about it. I disagree - the kids perceive DS is different even if they don't have a label. It can't possibly get worse than it is. Anyway, it's nice to hear that others were outraged too. I was starting to doubt myself. And yes, I would throttle my kid if they did that. LOL! I often say I'm going to teach my kids to be kind and compassionate even if I have to beat it into them.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2013 11:39:40 GMT -5
Does your son do therapy? If he does I would talk to his therapist about the bullying, perhaps they can help teach him some skills to deal with/recognize bullying and give you/your DH some tips too.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Aug 1, 2013 11:44:52 GMT -5
But you also said that the troop leader severely punished her son when you reported his actions. If she didn't care about this behavior, you would have gotten a pat on the head and be told 'boys will be boys'.
If you find out how to stop bullying, please let the rest of us know. Not many parents are ok with their kids being bullied, but it still happens everywhere every day.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Aug 1, 2013 11:46:57 GMT -5
DS (8yo with high functioning autism) has been part of cub scouts for two years now. DH does it with him so I have minimal contact with the group. I love the program though - the troop leader is awesome in all the activities she has the boys do. It's a really fun and educational experience. Anyway, the few times I have participated in activities I've noticed pretty quickly that DS is either ignored by the other kids are subtly picked on. Ignoring is fine as I get he is socially awkward, however the mean things get to me. Things like other boys calling him stupid and that he shouldn't attempt chess, or all going to an activity together but not allowing DS to join them. Little things, but it happens EVERY TIME I've been with the group. DH admits if the troop is doing something and there is a "bad" role, DS always gets that role. Unfortunately, the boy who causes DS the most grief is the troop leader's son. They also go to school together, and he's mean to DS there as well. The boys had their first overnight camp last week and when DH/DS came home DH told me that a few of the boys were carrying DS around and deliberately set him down in a wet pool of urine (it was the "outdoor bathroom" where many of the boys peed while in their teepees). When DH confronted them about it they lied and said they didn't know it was pee, except DH had heard one of the boys tell DS it was pee when DS complained about his shirt getting wet. Of course, the kid who instigated the drop and lied to DH was the troop leader's son. ANYWAY, I was pissed. It took me a day, but I worked really hard on a calm email to send to the parents that explained to them DS's autism (DH hadn't told the troop) and that I wanted them to be aware of the incident. I very specifically said I wasn't interested in punishing the boys, but I thought it was an excellent "teachable moment" in that each family could discuss disabilities, bullying, compassion, tolerance, etc. I said the boys didn't have to be artificially friendly to DS, but that DS's presence could potentially be good for the troop in giving them some exposure to people who are different. So, the troop leader found out it was her son who was the main culprit and took away his electronics for a month. Honestly, this seems really severe to me and I wonder if I've made things worse. Not that the kid doesn't totally deserve it (I could list a dozen stories about how he mistreats DS) but I've never had to do anything remotely that tough with my kids. The worst punishment they've ever had is maybe a 10 minute time out in their rooms. So now I'm worried that this kid is going to hate my son even more, and my well-intentioned letter will backfire and just end up escalating the quasi-bullying this kid dishes to my son. Course, DH is a non-confrontational type so he's pissed I even told the other parents. DS is completely over the experience and remembers camp as this great time. So I'm wondering if I should have handled things differently. What would you have done? Honestly, I think that you really did a great job. I'm sure that I wouldn't have handled the situation nearly as well as you did. You did a fine job of standing strong for your son when he wasn't able to do it for himself. No offense to your DH, but there will be more times in life when as parents, you both will have to stand for your son, and he needs to get on with that realization. And, heck no, taking away electronics from a kid that perpetrated a vicious act is not too harsh a punishment. The bully had it in for your weaker son anyway, and now his mother knows how rotten he can really be. Hopefully, she'll be able to correct his behavior pattern. Best wishes to your son.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 1, 2013 11:48:25 GMT -5
SK- Ohhh hot topic for me. First you need to talk with your den leader one on one. He/She is supposed to be teaching the boys about being respectful and tolerant. Clearly that is missing.
If you don't get any response, or see any improvement- talk with the Committee Chair of the pack (not the cubmaster). They are in responsible for the adult leaders in the group. My husband is the chair for our pack (my son just moved on to the troop). Discuss your concerns and specifically mention how they boys are treating your child and how the leader is (or is not) handling. It is absolutely unacceptable.
If you still don't get a response- find a new pack if there is one in your area.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 1, 2013 11:54:07 GMT -5
I think you did the right thing making the other parents aware of the situation. I would want to know if my kid was part of a crowd that was bullying someone. DS is only 5 and even now we sometimes talk about how we are always nice even to people that might seem different. I would be beyond furious if he was doing this type of stuff to another kid.
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