973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2013 13:47:13 GMT -5
Of course they will have choices but not the one they want. You guys want this to have the effect you want it to and I promise you it won't. It will literaly have the exact opposite effect. If it was my kid doing the bulllying I would want to teach them a lesson. But as the parent of the child who was bullied, I would want it not to happen again. This isn't about getting back at the offender. This is, or at least it is with me, doing what is my child's best interest. Nothing about punishing this boy for a month is going to make him be anything but more hostile to SK's son. I'm pretty sure SK wants the bullying to stop - I don't think she's seeking retribution. And what else should she do to get the bullying to stop if she can't tell the parents what's going on? I wasn't actually responding to her there. I was responding to the general feeling on this thread. Everyone posts like they want the boy beat the shit out of, and never allowed to do anything fun again for life. I understand being mad but acting on it rarely actually makes things better. I agree that she needed to talk to the boys mom, but I would have done it privately, not in a mass email. The biggest problem now to me is that this boy's punishment is going to go on until school starts. Every day he thinks about going on his computer or Kindle, he is going to be reminded of his punishment and who "caused it". And this isn't an adult, he's 8, so he will feel SK's son "caused it". Talking with the other parent and setting up a time for them to get together to play may give them a chance to get past this. People can not like someone but later become friends with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 13:47:21 GMT -5
DD was bullying another girl in her first grade class. I took away TV for a week and told her that she doesn't have to be friends with everyone but she does have to be NICE to them. And that if I heard that she did ANYTHING to that girl I would have her azz in the Principal's office so fast it would make her head spin (maybe not those exact words).
Anyhow, I think the bully's Mom should make sure to tell her DS that if he does anything else to SK's son then his next punishment is going to be even worse.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 1, 2013 13:47:21 GMT -5
I thought it was the flying spaghetti dude. He is not controversial enough. It should be the flying manicotti dude.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Aug 1, 2013 13:48:36 GMT -5
Of course they will have choices but not the one they want. You guys want this to have the effect you want it to and I promise you it won't. It will literaly have the exact opposite effect. If it was my kid doing the bulllying I would want to teach them a lesson. But as the parent of the child who was bullied, I would want it not to happen again. This isn't about getting back at the offender. This is, or at least it is with me, doing what is my child's best interest. Nothing about punishing this boy for a month is going to make him be anything but more hostile to SK's son. And, again, SK gets absolutely ZERO say in the offender's punishment. For all any of us know that is the "publicly announced/enforced" punishment and he'll have them back in the privacy of his home where no one can see him with it. (and therefore not judge mom for being such a wuss of a parent) That's exactly what I was thinking. We really can't even be sure this mom didn't just tell SK she is taking away his electronics for the next month. There actually is no way to know if she will follow through with this or not. Also, if someone doesn't call this kid on his behavior then who knows how far it could escalate. He could turn out to be one of those douche bag frat boys that thinks they can do anything to ANYONE (e.g. female patrons of their parties). I am not saying he WILL turn into this, only that bullying and control issues can escalate to extremes later in life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 13:49:17 GMT -5
DD was bullying another girl in her first grade class. I took away TV for a week and told her that she doesn't have to be friends with everyone but she does have to be NICE to them. And that if I heard that she did ANYTHING to that girl I would have her azz in the Principal's office so fast it would make her head spin (maybe not those exact words). Anyhow, I think the bully's Mom should make sure to tell her DS that if he does anything else to SK's son then his next punishment is going to be even worse. A fate worse than a fate worse than death.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 13:50:09 GMT -5
What? The no TV for a week or having Mom come to school?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 1, 2013 13:50:30 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
ITA that SK needed to speak up. Silent bystanders are even more damaging, IMHO, than the bullies themselves. The silent bystanders give the bullies license to step up the bullying. Bravo, SK. I think you handled it really well. The fact that no one has disagreed with the facts as you stated them (in writing, wise woman) speaks volumes.
Personally, I would just keep repeating the Cub Scout Promise, Pledge and Motto -- all speak to being a good person and helping others -- qualities and traits that from the start reject bullying and mean behavior regardless of the strength (or weakness) of another's social skills.
As for the ring leader, the parent may be as clueless about her little prince as SK describes her. Or, it is possible that the parent has already spoken to her son about his mean behavior toward SK's son and the month-long vacation from electronics is just another step in her efforts to discipline her son. Hey, it COULD happen. At any rate, let's give the parent credit for a)not responding by calling SK a liar or threatening to sue SK for libel and b)for, at least publicly, disciplining her son.
And, I may be naive and idealistic, but it IS possible that the little prince will learn from this and steer clear of SK's son once school starts. And, IF he tries anything in school, SK should speak up immediately so that he gets the message that his bullying will no longer be tolerated.
JMHO. YMMV. And, let's wait and see what happens before we work SK up into a ball of fear and anxiety about the school year...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 13:51:35 GMT -5
It's ok Archie- us atheists still aren't allowed. *ETA- my comment is in response to Archie saying they'll let musical theater kids in scouting now Yes, they do want the boys to believe in something larger than themselves. They just don't dictate what that is. Sasquatch?
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Aug 1, 2013 13:56:41 GMT -5
Yes, they do want the boys to believe in something larger than themselves. They just don't dictate what that is. Sasquatch? Yeti.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 1, 2013 14:02:25 GMT -5
Ideally your husband would have talked to the troop leader about it and the troop leader would have dealt with both the troop and her son. If he wouldn't do that then I would have talked to the troop leader myself.
I wouldn't have sent an e-mail to all the parents and get up on my high horse and preech about tolance and kindness. I'd just want the bullying to stop. What the troop leader does as punishment to her son would not be my concern, and I wouldn't worry about it unless it esculated. Taking away electronics for a month for bullying doesn't sound outragous to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:14:54 GMT -5
We'll have to wait and see what happens. But I still think the Mom should threaten him with a worse punishment if he does it again.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Aug 1, 2013 14:26:41 GMT -5
It's ok Archie- us atheists still aren't allowed. *ETA- my comment is in response to Archie saying they'll let musical theater kids in scouting now Yes, they do want the boys to believe in something larger than themselves. They just don't dictate what that is. Ok- but these kids that are in scouts and supposed to be all "Christian" are the ones tossing an 8 year old autistic kid in a puddle of urine. They do dictate what that is in their own subtle way- if they had their way every kid in scouting would be a good little Christian kid (the right kind whatever that means). They only let gay scouts in because they were looking like asshats and corporations were pulling funding. To quote my husband- my imaginary bunny in the sky is just as valid as your imaginary man in heaven.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2013 14:30:07 GMT -5
You guys can go back and reread the thread but most of the comments were about how people would have had to restrain themselves from beating the boy up or he should be banned from things like scouts for life. As the parent of the kid who was picked on all I care about is that my kid isn't picked on again. It isn't my job to worry about the other kid learning a lesson.
I have totally BTDT and got the tshirt with mean kids picking on my kids. I can't think of one time where the parent confronting the parent of the "bully" actually made things better though. Untended consequences can be a bitch, and since those unentended consequences would roll down hill onto my kid I do care about that.
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 1, 2013 14:35:02 GMT -5
Ideally your husband would have talked to the troop leader about it and the troop leader would have dealt with both the troop and her son. If he wouldn't do that then I would have talked to the troop leader myself.
I wouldn't have sent an e-mail to all the parents and get up on my high horse and preech about tolance and kindness. I'd just want the bullying to stop. What the troop leader does as punishment to her son would not be my concern, and I wouldn't worry about it unless it esculated. Taking away electronics for a month for bullying doesn't sound outragous to me. I think you're forgetting the part where it was several boys that picked up SKs kid and dumped him in the urine. The troop leader's son seems to be the ring leader in the bullying, but the other kids sure are participating in the bullying and are just as much a part of the problem as the troop leader's son.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:37:13 GMT -5
I have to wonder how much urine there actually was. Pee gets quickly absorbed into the ground, in which case the dirt may have been a little wet. If there was already standing water where they were peeing then the pee was pretty diluted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:38:41 GMT -5
does it really matter how much pee was there? The intent was to drop him into a place where other boys had peed - that's really all that matters.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 1, 2013 14:39:34 GMT -5
Ideally your husband would have talked to the troop leader about it and the troop leader would have dealt with both the troop and her son. If he wouldn't do that then I would have talked to the troop leader myself.
I wouldn't have sent an e-mail to all the parents and get up on my high horse and preech about tolance and kindness. I'd just want the bullying to stop. What the troop leader does as punishment to her son would not be my concern, and I wouldn't worry about it unless it esculated. Taking away electronics for a month for bullying doesn't sound outragous to me. I think you're forgetting the part where it was several boys that picked up SKs kid and dumped him in the urine. The troop leader's son seems to be the ring leader in the bullying, but the other kids sure are participating in the bullying and are just as much a part of the problem as the troop leader's son. Yes, which is why I said the troop leader should handle the troop, meaning contacting individual parents if necessary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:39:44 GMT -5
does it really matter how much pee was there? The intent was to drop him into a place where other boys had peed - that's really all that matters. The amount of pee is key.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 1, 2013 14:40:41 GMT -5
You would have rather been subjected to worse torment at school when no one is there to protect you? Cause make no mistake after that punishment this kid is going to be seriously pissed by the time school starts. You can't seriously think that bullies should have no punishment because it will make them worse...guess what, my dd's ass has been grounded all summer...sure she is pissed and upset but I can guarantee you she will never do what got her grounded in the first place again...because she knows next time her grounding is 6 months, instead of one. And I can also guarantee you if this little son of a bitch bullied my dd at school over this that I would be in the principal's office threatening a lawsuit. And if that didn't work, I would go to the superintendent...and after that I would bring in my attorney. Bullying is not ok I've not read all pages but I have so many thoughts about this situation! 1. SK - I also don't agree that his (the bully) punishment was too much. If anything - it was too little. 2. I want to punch your DH for not doing something then and there. Sorry. I just do. 3. I think your email was perfect and I am so glad you informed the other parents of the behavior of this kid and their kids towards your son. No decent parent that I know of would want their kids hanging with that brat scout leader's kid who would do something like that. Anybody who picks on a kid with special needs, or is smaller, etc. is nothing but a coward IMO. They need to be knocked down a few pegs. 4. You Rock!!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 1, 2013 14:43:28 GMT -5
You guys can go back and reread the thread but most of the comments were about how people would have had to restrain themselves from beating the boy up or he should be banned from things like scouts for life. As the parent of the kid who was picked on all I care about is that my kid isn't picked on again. It isn't my job to worry about the other kid learning a lesson. I have totally BTDT and got the tshirt with mean kids picking on my kids. I can't think of one time where the parent confronting the parent of the "bully" actually made things better though. Untended consequences can be a bitch, and since those unentended consequences would roll down hill onto my kid I do care about that. I think even you would have had to practice a good deal of restraint had you witnessed it. I don't know about you, but I was raised in a time when it was ok to let someone else's kid know they were out of line and punishing them for it. I saw my parents correct other kids plenty but mostly verbally. It's different NOW for sure, but I think we all have a little of that in our heads because it was ok when we were learning what is and isn't.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2013 14:44:29 GMT -5
There are also differences in the way boys fight and girls fight. The boys will beat each other up and 15 minutes later all is forgotten and they are best friends again. The girls will say something mean in the 2nd grade and they will still remember every word and be pissed about it 30 years later.
I personally would be furious if it happened to me, but my 10 year old son would probably find it hilarious.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 1, 2013 14:48:06 GMT -5
does it really matter how much pee was there? The intent was to drop him into a place where other boys had peed - that's really all that matters. The amount of pee is key. It got his shirt wet. When DS commented on it the boy said "Yeah we dropped you in pee."
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Aug 1, 2013 14:51:06 GMT -5
Ideally your husband would have talked to the troop leader about it and the troop leader would have dealt with both the troop and her son. If he wouldn't do that then I would have talked to the troop leader myself.
I wouldn't have sent an e-mail to all the parents and get up on my high horse and preech about tolance and kindness. I'd just want the bullying to stop. What the troop leader does as punishment to her son would not be my concern, and I wouldn't worry about it unless it esculated. Taking away electronics for a month for bullying doesn't sound outragous to me. I think you're forgetting the part where it was several boys that picked up SKs kid and dumped him in the urine. The troop leader's son seems to be the ring leader in the bullying, but the other kids sure are participating in the bullying and are just as much a part of the problem as the troop leader's son. Exactly. And when DH approached to yell at the kids a few of them ran off (and it happened quick and DH isn't solid on everyone's names). Plus, there is a small part of me that didn't trust the troop leader wouldn't brush it under the rug or minimize the details. I wanted all the parents to hear what happened exactly how it happened.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 1, 2013 14:53:49 GMT -5
I don't know about these really harsh punishments for bullying, like being banned from scouts for life. I'm all for punishing bullies, but I think their parents should be doing that, not schools/scouts/whatever. I wonder if we'll ever hear of the flip side, the parent of a kid who bullies and was banned from scouts for life and how that was unfair.
Obviously beating the kid up would never be okay under any circumstances.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:54:18 GMT -5
The amount of pee is key. It got his shirt wet. When DS commented on it the boy said "Yeah we dropped you in pee." Probably more water than pee.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 1, 2013 14:55:44 GMT -5
You guys can go back and reread the thread but most of the comments were about how people would have had to restrain themselves from beating the boy up or he should be banned from things like scouts for life. As the parent of the kid who was picked on all I care about is that my kid isn't picked on again. It isn't my job to worry about the other kid learning a lesson. I have totally BTDT and got the tshirt with mean kids picking on my kids. I can't think of one time where the parent confronting the parent of the "bully" actually made things better though. Untended consequences can be a bitch, and since those unentended consequences would roll down hill onto my kid I do care about that. I can give you a prime example...my daughter came home from school crying a few months ago. She always loved school up until this point. The next morning she didn't want to go to school and started crying again. Turns out some little kid on her bus was tormenting her. I called the school, spoke to the guidance counselor, principal and director of special ed. I gave them two choices; remove this kid from my daughter's bus or put my daughter on a new bus. I recited their anti-bullying policy back to them (zero tolerance) and told them I expected the situation resolved before the end of the day. Within hours this kid was no longer on my daughter's bus and my daughter went back to loving school. It also gave my daughter confidence to talk to me in these kinds of situations because she now knows that mommy will take care of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 14:58:30 GMT -5
Yes, they do want the boys to believe in something larger than themselves. They just don't dictate what that is. Ok- but these kids that are in scouts and supposed to be all "Christian" are the ones tossing an 8 year old autistic kid in a puddle of urine. They do dictate what that is in their own subtle way- if they had their way every kid in scouting would be a good little Christian kid (the right kind whatever that means). They only let gay scouts in because they were looking like asshats and corporations were pulling funding. To quote my husband- my imaginary bunny in the sky is just as valid as your imaginary man in heaven. Christian or not, they're still 8 year old boys. For the most part what they "dictate" is what I would consider good values regardless of religion, but again...they're 8. Scouting is supposed to be something to help teach them these values. It's not expected that only angels will be in there or that they'll adhere to these values at all times, but hopefully, some starts to stick! My ex is a die-hard atheist and has been a very active leader in our troop for the past 6 years. As for the punishment, a month without electronics doesn't sound that horrible to me. I take my son's away for a week at a crack all the time just for annoying me.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 1, 2013 15:06:25 GMT -5
You guys can go back and reread the thread but most of the comments were about how people would have had to restrain themselves from beating the boy up
And everyone said they wouldn't actually do it. I didn't know there was a thought police. Yeah my first reaction would be push the kid's face into the pee and see how he likes it, even if it was my own kid. But since I'm an adult I recognize that's not the proper way to handle things or the message I want to send. I'd keep that to myself. More than electronics would disappear in my house though. I get kids can be jackasses but you don't do that to a kid who is "different" and doesn't understand. You want to push a kid in pee you take your chances pushing one in that will push your ass in right back.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 1, 2013 15:09:18 GMT -5
You guys can go back and reread the thread but most of the comments were about how people would have had to restrain themselves from beating the boy up or he should be banned from things like scouts for life. As the parent of the kid who was picked on all I care about is that my kid isn't picked on again. It isn't my job to worry about the other kid learning a lesson. I have totally BTDT and got the tshirt with mean kids picking on my kids. I can't think of one time where the parent confronting the parent of the "bully" actually made things better though. Untended consequences can be a bitch, and since those unentended consequences would roll down hill onto my kid I do care about that. I think even you would have had to practice a good deal of restraint had you witnessed it. I don't know about you, but I was raised in a time when it was ok to let someone else's kid know they were out of line and punishing them for it. I saw my parents correct other kids plenty but mostly verbally. It's different NOW for sure, but I think we all have a little of that in our heads because it was ok when we were learning what is and isn't. Well my DD is older now, so I am not so shocked at how brain damaged all kids are. but I absolutely say something right then. I would have called the offenders out right then and there and if they lied about it I would have called them out about that also. I have never seen a kid not back down when they are called out by an adult. In this case the kid wasn't called out then. His mother was called out in a mass email for which he was punished. Some of the kids I told not to do something at the park say not only still talk to DD they actually stop and say hi to me if they see me.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 1, 2013 15:13:09 GMT -5
It was a mass email because her DH didn't actually know the names of all the kids in it, not because she had nothing else to do. I just don't think the kid is going to be that nasty when school starts again. Surely he'll have gotten in trouble for something else between now and then and forgotten SK's kid caused him any grief.
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