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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:03:19 GMT -5
I don't think parents EVER have an obligation to pay for college.
I agree (actually I don't, personally, but I DO see your point.) BUT, you need to be honest with them from the beginning, and NOT empty out the 40K you have been telling them would be paying for college two years earlier. You can do whatever you want, pay for college or not. But what you CAN'T do (IMO) is change the goalposts along the way.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 11, 2011 20:07:52 GMT -5
Firebird: In terms of their "drop in the bucket" retirement savings - they do have a paid off house. That is huge. I have over 300k mortgage, and older than they are. Retirement savings are not much more. Why is it now that the house is built they can't get 40k mortgage on it? Op says her day job is 50k, and both have part time jobs.....at only 15k a piece on those - thats about 80k. Actually-- that's a really, really good point. I never thought of that. I'm sure they could borrow $40k against their equity. Has anyone suggested this yet? If they did, I missed it. Daphne, would you consider this? I think you should. It's the right thing to do, if you're serious about repairing your relationship with your daughter. A $40k mortgage shouldn't deter your ability to put that $1,000 per month into retirement funds, and your daughter gets her college money back. Everyone wins.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:11:21 GMT -5
Has anyone suggested this yet?
Yes, I did. I was told it would have held the whole process up and they would have lost the property. I responded that I don't quite get that given that it would have only come up at the very end. Nonetheless, that's the answer I got.
ETA: My original post was if they had 250K of the 290K why couldn't they just borrow the remaining 40K? I was told it would have held the whole process up ...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 11, 2011 20:13:43 GMT -5
I thought that you were asking why they hadn't done that in the first place (which I wondered too, a $40k mortgage is peanuts-- a very low price to pay for not raiding your daughter's college fund). I didn't realize you were suggesting that they do it now that they've paid cash for the property. My bad.
Did she ever respond to the suggestion that she take out $40k against her equity now?
Daph?
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Feb 11, 2011 20:18:08 GMT -5
Go for it, Daphne, go for it! Take out the loan and give your daughter back her college money! It's the best thing you could possibly do right now to start winning back her trust.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:20:29 GMT -5
Firebird, that was my original question. Why they didn't just put their 250K down and finance the rest and not need to raid DD's savings.
Again, I was told lenders took "forever" and if they did that they would lose the house. Makes no sense, by the time the loan came through it would have been 85% paid off anyway.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:22:19 GMT -5
Did she ever respond to the suggestion that she take out $40k against her equity now?
As far as I know nobody has asked this.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 11, 2011 20:26:35 GMT -5
And...... you lost me. You don't even have to take it for $40K. Take it for $20K, $10K, even $5K. I find it almost (I say "almost" bc I haven't worked for mortgage company in about 4yrs and don't know how they work anymore) hard to believe that if you have paid off $290K house, they wouldn't give you $10K.
Lena
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:28:14 GMT -5
oh dh - i saying get one NOW. The house is built isn't it? They own it free - rates are great. Get a 15 year note (or even 10).
Tbird we just applied for a rental loan (66% down) and getting the last 33% was TOTAL HELL. This said, I don't think Daphne ever attempted that.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 11, 2011 20:36:48 GMT -5
If he doesn't want to sign bc the money would go back to your DD, than you should be calling HIM all the names you were calling your ex. I hope that's not the case
Lena
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:40:15 GMT -5
hard to believe that if you have paid off $290K house, they wouldn't give you $10K.
Lena our house is worth a LOT now and we had a HUGE amount of trouble getting a 41K loan for a rental. No offense, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree there.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2011 20:42:56 GMT -5
He can send you the bill. Your only obligation is to pay the child support as ordered by the court.
Stick to that plan, let him spend away on college for DD and then find a way to pay it. Even better, tell him to take out student loans in his name.
I'm sorry you're going through these times with your daughter. When she grows up, she will realize which parent loved her and was really there for her all those years and which one was trying to buy her love. [/size]
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:45:53 GMT -5
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 11, 2011 20:47:23 GMT -5
Wow, how things have changed in the mortgage industry. OK, fair enough.
OK, I can't keep getting this analyzed and over-analyzed to death. Your first post made me very angry, your following posts made me feel bad for you and like you a bit, but now, it's just getting to the point of slightly ridiculous. Whatever issues your DH has may be have to be put aside for a bit, bc the suggestion of taking HELOC to give some $$$ to your DD, was a pretty good one. You already put your and your DH's wants before her once, now you putting your DH before her again.
I am sure there is a whole lot more to this, but we are not Judge Judy or Dr Phil here, so all I can say is "good luck", I do hope you and your DD heal from this BS
Lena
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Feb 11, 2011 20:52:25 GMT -5
Remember "help" doesn't always mean "money". Other than the basics of food, shelter and minimal clothing, my parents didn't provide me with any money but the importance of their help [in the form of teaching me discipline, hard work, etc], and more importantly, unconditional love far exceeds anything money could ever buy.
As a parent, your largest responsibility is to prepare her for the real world. Your ex is warping that view of the real world. I'd consider a heart to heart with her. While she may be too self absorbed now, the words will likely resonate with her and you could be surprised at how quickly she comes around.
Best of luck [/size]
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 20:55:15 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 11, 2011 20:56:51 GMT -5
Well, if your DH has this great relationship with your DD then he will want the relationship back on track and the best way for that to begin is to give back the money for college. You aren't going to lose your home over 40k and the payment will be nominal. You could even wait until after child support ends to get the note and start making payments. I can't imagine any partner saying it's okay to steal money from another person, especially one that is supposed to be so loved, for a house.
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Post by debtheaven on Feb 11, 2011 21:04:18 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 11, 2011 21:16:55 GMT -5
So where did your DH think the extra 40k came from to buy YOUR dream home? How come he never knew about the 40K? He wasn't always mentally ill and making little money, right? Well, now he owns half of a paid for house, right? That must make him feel so much better mentally. I think there is WAY more to your DD leaving than you have said and besides your obvious part in it, I wonder what your DH's part is?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 11, 2011 21:19:06 GMT -5
You stole money from your own child, your flesh and blood, to buy a house with a man who thinks it is also okay to steal from her and even you because he isn't even contributing a fair share of expenses, let alone paying back what was stolen. I wonder why it took your DD so long to leave?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 11, 2011 21:19:54 GMT -5
Children sense when they are not truly loved.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 22:32:54 GMT -5
Jeez guys. Give her a week to find 40k, fix the dysfunctional relationship between her, her DS and her ex, and deal with her husband who has such severe mental issues he has difficulty working. She can totally do all this in just a few days while working two jobs. For my part I would like her to add a plan for retirement, especially since I'm sensing her husband will never come up to his previous income. How about the perspective from a spoiled brat girl - I was a terrible teenager. My mom worked crappy-ass jobs to send me to Europe, twice. Sometimes she worked 60 hours a week or more. In fast food. And got shot at. And I still wanted more. These days I'd rather I hadn't gotten any of the things she bought for me. I wished she'd saved the money for herself and for her husband so I wouldn't be worrying about them now. What she gave me isn't worth the guilt seeing her struggle. Yeah - it was really, really wrong to promise her DD something as important as a college education and then take it away. She's going to be paying emotional rent to her DD for a long time. Hopefully she can make it up to her. But I would hope that her DD would have the maturity and grace someday to understand and forgive.
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Post by gsbrq on Feb 11, 2011 22:46:10 GMT -5
Daphne,
There are no guarantees that this will work, but here is my opinion on how to proceed.
The only way to make amends to your daughter is to sincerely apologize (without any "buts"). If she lashes out, sit there and take it...you've got it coming, and if she is angry at you, let her vent that anger without arguing back. This is a necessary first step.
My guess is that you've badmouthed her dad to her in the past. That has to stop. It's corrosive and it only makes her think worse of you, not of him. Stop saying it to other people too, because that hostility shows even if you don't verbalize it to your daughter.
Finally, figure out a plan to repay the money you raided from her college fund. I don't mean a few bucks here & there; yours was a significant betrayal (regardless of whether you had "a plan"), so you need to make meaningful amends. Figure out what you can do to fix your credit, and get a mortgage or home equity loan. Even if your relationship with your daughter can't be repaired, at least you'll have done the right thing by her.
Best of luck to you.
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Elizabeth
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Post by Elizabeth on Feb 11, 2011 23:49:56 GMT -5
Hi Daphne,
I'll give you my perspective, for what it's worth. My parents divorced when I was about 6. I was never resentful about that because it was a good thing, trust me, but I did always resent my step-dad, because my mom always put his concerns before mine. She sold me down the river on his behalf at least 3 times that I can remember. But I have always forgiven her. And she did WAY worse things than raid my college fund (not that I ever had one- on step-dad's advice). Today, I love her, we are friends, but I definitely don't make her a priority in my life. Not because of what she did, but because of her reaction to it after it was all said and done. She always counted on my forgiveness, and I always gave it to her. So, my point is, your DD WILL forgive in time for you for what you did, but you need to focus on the relationship with her. Like you have committed to doing, genuinely apologize and do everything you can to make sure she knows she is loved and wanted. I think that's all kids ever really want from their parents. Help her where you can, even if it's not money. Help her move into her dorm, go with her to the campus orientation, etc. DO things with her. Money can't buy everything. Good luck and best wishes, Daphne.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 7:40:59 GMT -5
IF you had read the posts, you would have read that the OP set aside 40k for her D's college and then took it for a house. THAT is the issue we are having. Not that she didn't have the money to pay any of it because of retirement or health issues but that she chose to take money set aside for DD's college and spend it on a house for her and her husband who is not DD's father.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 7:44:52 GMT -5
Apologizing comes cheap to people like that and it doesn't mean squat because it isn't sincere and it comes on top of another (and this time HUGE) betrayal. Taking money from an account for DD to buy a house for herself and her husband, there is just NO excuse for it. It's selfish and wrong and the OP knew it was wrong when she did it but chose for the millionth time to put herself and her husband ahead of her daughter. I am sure this was the last straw.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 7:47:33 GMT -5
Only if she has life insurance that will pay off DD. She has ways to pay it back but chooses not to.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 7:48:54 GMT -5
But she knew it was wrong when she did it and did it anyway. I would fall on a sword before stealing from my children.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 7:56:23 GMT -5
I don't KNOWINGLY do wrong and when I do unknowingly, I do EVERYTHING within my power to make it right. I don't spin endless excuses as to why I cannot when the fact is she just doesn't want to. I'm sure we all know people who think an apology makes it all better when the fact is, it doesn't. That's a cheap way of getting out of it and if the other person doesn't accept it and "move on" then it's THEIR problem all of a sudden because, after all, you apologized.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 12, 2011 8:01:41 GMT -5
We aren't talking standing someone up for lunch. We are talking taking college money and spending it on a house.
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