Daughter's college....

[Firebird]

DH is of the opinion that we "borrowed" her college fund with a plan to repay it. And when she moved full time to her dad's, she spent it. She took away our ability to repay her college fund. In his mind, she spent her college fund on her senior year of high school.

I see his point, but did she realize that you were going to have to pay child support? From your OP, it sounds like she wasn't planning that you would pay anything and the courts decided otherwise, not her.

IMO, there is probably a lot more to the story that you're not telling. Kids don't just up and decide to leave all their friends and a stable family unit to live with a douchecanoe in their senior year of high school unless there are other things going on.

[stats45]

When did you talk to her about getting a job? Was this a long-term battle or something that happened after your and your DH's job circumstances went downhill and the college fund was spent? If you never expressed the importance of getting a job and this all happened after, of course she would be resentful.

I can imagine that if I had $40,000 in a college account, it was spent, and my parents started to lecture me about my availability on job applications, I would be thinking 'Why is it suddenly my responsbility to make up for you spending money you promised to me?'

[reader79]

Your daughter needs to make her plans based on the situation as it stands now. If there is no college fund, then she goes to a school that she can afford with her own money, and whatever her father is willing to provide. He can't send you a 'bill.' I also wouldn't send her emails documenting how you believe that you owe her money, they will just be used against you. I wouldn't be surprised if she sues you and presents them in court.

No one has a right to go to a fancy private college, it is probably in her best interests to go to a state school anyway. She is going to blame you for everything for the next few years anyway, so wouldn't it be better to save yourself the guilt - and the money that you don't have?

If she is truly the nice sweet girl that you have described, then it will all work out in a few years. You have to do what is best for yourself and your husband. Don't cosign any student loans, or make her a promise to pay them off instead of cash up front.

[reader79]

It wasn't all of someone else's money. The girl hasn't worked a day in her life.

[souldoubt]

Feb 11, 2011 11:45:24 GMT -5 reader79 said:

I also wouldn't send her emails documenting how you believe that you owe her money, they will just be used against you. I wouldn't be surprised if she sues you and presents them in court.

Honest question as I'm not a lawyer but if it was just money they were putting away on their own in an account then what recourse does the daughter have? I believe if they were taking it out of like a 529 plan then the money has to be for qualified tuition/books/other expenses so I could see her having a leg to stand on in that case. That said telling your kids you have a college fund and coming up short or not at all because of a life situation can't possibly create any kind of legal obligation correct?

I could see how someone would be mad if they were "promised" something and then it wasn't there but it sounds like her moving in with dad and the $1,100 a month child support kind of prevented mom from being able to pay back the fund. That said it's not the daughters money as another poster said she didn't earn it.

[stats45]

In that email, what are you saying you are going to contribute? Just the support money?

Again, you are asking her to get over something that she hasn't even seen the results of yet. Of course you want it to be over because you have the house you wanted. She doesn't have the money that she was promised and that is a decision that will last for years in the future. It is completely unreasonable to deny her frustration with your decisions.

[shanendoah]

daphne: I think I know why your daughter decided to move, and it has nothing to do with a job. In one post you say you miss your sweet girl of 17 years. In another you say you're happy to pay the child support, its worth it to not have her in your house. If you're giving us these conflicting messages, think about what messages your giving her.
Going out on a limb, so total extrapolation - how is her relationship with your DH? My guess (based on the comments you attributed to him and my experience) not exactly great. Always a little contentious, made worse by medical issues, and you've never been certain whose side to take when.
If her dad isn't married, she then only has to figure out how to manage one parent instead of two. She doesn't have to wonder whose side you'll be on this time, and she feels like she's freeing you up so that you don't have to pretend that she's as important to you as your DH.

I am NOT saying you don't love her or that she's less important to you than your DH. I am saying she probably feels like she is, and teenage emotions, rational or not, are powerful driving forces.

If she has said she and her dad will figure out college, then let them. Make sure that you do what you can to keep lines of communication open so that when you're both ready to forgive and move on, the path is already there.

[Gardening Grandma]

Feb 11, 2011 11:45:40 GMT -5 @daphne87 said:

Feb 11, 2011 11:31:51 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Have you tried sending your DS an e-mail laying it out for her? Apparently teenagers are more comfortable with electronic communication . . . She needs to know ASAP and it might go over better than you trying to chase her down for a conversation. Something along the lines of "We're sorry, we had a plan to pay back your college fund but it didn't work out. Our employment situation has also changed. We accept our share of the blame. How can we help you pick a college that is the best for you and is affordable?"

The one thing I might pay for in your situation is a session with one of those fancy college advisors that help you find a college that is the best match for your interests, not just the college names everyone is familiar with.

I might just love you for this advice.... <<<karma>>>

One caution: While I do like this advice, I'd keep in mind that, down the road, it's possible a judge could be reading every email you send her. I've been in court often enough (in my son's case) to know that emails can be submitted. His ex has hanged herself out to dry more than once with her emails to him. So, just be careful in your wording and don't expect your email to remain private if push came to shove.

[stats45]

I've worked since I was 14 because my father expected it of me.

That said, not working at 17 is no excuse for breaking an obligation with your children. In addition, there is no evidence that her parents thought this was important before the college fund was spent. Some children become very responsible by keeping up with their schoolwork, engaging in extracurricular activies, volunteer work, etc.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

And DH's head doesn't always work right -- he's in serious therapy addressing these issues.

Going out on a limb but after reading this and how the health issues have crippled your finances I am better it's been a pretty stressful household.

She may have jumped at the chance to live with her dad because it gets her out from under all the stress.

I love my parents but I was thrilled to move out when I went to college because I didn't have to be around them 24/7 anymore. Our relationship is a lot better now that I am out of the house.

Just a thought.

I know that I wouldn't want to live where people spent my college fund and then turn around and say it is my fault because I decided to live with my father instead of them.

Mentally ill or not those kind of things still hurt when they are said. You seem find with operating under "he's ill". A 17 year old isn't mature enough and not everyone is willing to put up with hurtful things just because person saying them is mentally ill.

[stats45]

I really hope things work out for you Daphne, but please try to think about this from your daughter's perspective. You broke an agreement with her, and it will impact her life in the coming years. It already has. Have reasonable expectations about building back some of the trust you have broken.

You can't have everything in life, and when you protected yourself from some risk by paying for your house with the college fund, you opened yourself up to something like this happening. Now you want it to be over. It doesn't work that way.

[stats45]

She "turned" in the exact same year that you spent her college fund for reasons unrelated to you spending the college fund?

[Firebird]

Also... I'm probably out of line in saying this, but you sound at least mildly self-aware so who knows-- perhaps it will sink in.

From the tone of your posts, I think I know you. Not personally, but I know someone just like you. She's my best friend's mom. My best friend more or less lived in our house for awhile because her mother's issues made it impossible for my best friend to live with her full-time, and in high school she, too, left home to move to the OPPOSITE COAST with her aunt and uncle. And trust me, when she did so there was NO END to the whiny, self-pitying diatribes from her mom about how her sweet little baby girl had been brainwashed and didn't love her anymore. Never did it occur to her that anything SHE might have done could have pushed her daughter to live elsewhere.

Her mother has made a career of blaming other people for her problems, ESPECIALLY her ex-husband. That is a BAD ROAD to go down. It is a GOOD WAY to fill your child with lifelong resentment toward you.

It is NOT your daughter's fault that you picked a lousy guy to father your firstborn child. Nor is it her responsibility to mediate conflicts between her parents. When children of divorced parents have the ability to play their parents against each other, it says a LOT more about the maturity levels of the parents than it does about the kid.

Feel free to ignore this, but if you want to have a functional relationship with your kid you need to cut out this blaming BS and act like the parent. Do NOT let her drag you into these stupid battles with the douchecanoe at the center of them.

I'm guilty of spending the college fund. She's guilty of not getting a job and being "bought" by her dad. He dad is guilty of being a jackwagon/douchecanoe (I might not be ready to stop using these terms yet).

You need to add at least three or four major items to the first sentence and stop focusing on the second and third. Acknowledge your own responsibility for the current situation, and you will be amazed at how fast your relationship with your kid magically gets better.

[reader79]

I don't think that the OP dislikes her daughter, I think that if you haven't had to deal with a 17-year-old girl before that the frequent mood swings and power struggles will drive you a little crazy. I have four sisters, we all went through this phase, and by the end my father's hair was completely white. One sister moved out at 17 to live with her boyfriend (now husband,) because she didn't want to have a curfew. Her relationship with our parents is much better now that she has matured.

Focus on your husband, he needs you.

[shanendoah]

And since I hadn't seen your post on DH's issues being mental health (and was not aware of the situation) I would bet that that, more than anything else, caused her to decide it was better to live with her father.
I would suggest that when you spend time with your daughter, you do it not at your house, not around your DH, and he never comes up in conversation unless she asks.
Your sister may have been trying to take your side, and DD suddenly felt like no one was on her side.
I know my favorite aunt sent me a letter trying to convince me to not move with my mother because of how much it would hurt my father. I was 13, and I cried myself to sleep for weeks over that, and over the decision I was making. Over 20 years later, I've still never told either of my parents about that letter, and it took me a long time to let go of the hurt my aunt caused.

I am going to suggest that you look for a counselor for you. You have anger and resentment issues (which you admit). You almost certainly have massive amounts of stress over DH's problems. You need to find someone who will help you deal with your emotions, to help you find constructive ways of getting through this. And then, once you're getting your emotions straight, invite DD to come to a session with you. Give her a chance to get all of her emotions out in a safe environment and acknowledge your role in helping create the situations that led to those feelings.
Kids are perfectly capable of loving and hating their parents at the same time.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You seem really intent on finding a reason to blame her rather than looking inward. It may very well be that she is a selfish brat who doesn't want to work and wants to basically live on her own bill free.

Or, it may not be. However you don't seem interested in looking at any other reasons why she might have chosen to live with her dad.

[shanendoah]

You say her relationship with DH is better than her relationship with you because he's never tried to be a parent. That can be a problem to, but you're also going only on what you've seen. Your DH's response to her choices indicates something different to me.
My father never sees me be anything but polite and nice to my step-mom, doesn't mean I like the woman. Whereas I fought with my step-dad like nobody's business, and we all knew that there was no way I was staying at home once I started college, but I actually liked the man quite a bit.

[Firebird]

Kids are perfectly capable of loving and hating their parents at the same time.

I agree, and would add that once they are old enough to understand WHY they hate their parents, a vicious cycle begins. They feel justified in their hatred because their parents did x, y, and z. However, they also feel guilty about hating the people that they love, so they try to overcompensate by complying with some irrational demand from that parent. Complying with such a demand feels ridiculous, so they begin resenting the parent all over again. That resentment makes them remember why they were so angry with the parent to begin with, and also gets the guilties going all over again.

Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

It is VERY rare for a kid with a toxic parent to cut them out completely. Kids are simply wired to love their parents and stay in their lives. There's not really an outer limit on how much f'd up stuff you can do to a kid and still have them be around you. However, that does NOT justify the implementation of psychological warfare, mind games, or anything else to get your kid to spend time with you and thus assuage your own feelings of guilt (i.e., "OBVIOUSLY I haven't screwed up my kid beyond belief or they wouldn't still be seeing me").

[973beachbum]

Feb 11, 2011 12:02:40 GMT -5 reader79 said:

I don't think that the OP dislikes her daughter, I think that if you haven't had to deal with a 17-year-old girl before that the frequent mood swings and power struggles will drive you a little crazy. I have four sisters, we all went through this phase, and by the end my father's hair was completely white. One sister moved out at 17 to live with her boyfriend (now husband,) because she didn't want to have a curfew. Her relationship with our parents is much better now that she has matured.

Focus on your husband, he needs you.

I was thinking something like this too. Maybe more along the lines of most of these people clearly never had children over the age of 8 to make some of these comments.

As the mom of a 15 year old some days I find it amazing that we are both still alive let alone speaking to each other. Then the next minute she comes to me crying and begging me to help her with something. She apparently forgets these things quicker than I do.

[Firebird]

Daphne, as upset as I am by your actions and words, I have to applaud you for listening to the posters here and not going on the defensive. Most people in your situation are not inclined to listen to anyone who isn't parroting back their self-pitying bullshit. I'm glad to see that you are different. Kudos and karma back to you.

[973beachbum]

Feb 11, 2011 12:16:18 GMT -5 @daphne87 said:

Feb 11, 2011 12:09:52 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

You seem really intent on finding a reason to blame her rather than looking inward. It may very well be that she is a selfish brat who doesn't want to work and wants to basically live on her own bill free.

Or, it may not be. However you don't seem interested in looking at any other reasons why she might have chosen to live with her dad.

I know ... I'm trying. that's why I'm here. To vent, and get some good advice. And to hear what others think. others who aren't on "my side".

That being said. There is no side, is there? Well, maybe DD has a side and she needs me to be there. On her side. Regardless of what did or did not happen. Regardless of what I think of her father.

OP have you considered spending a few dollars and using it to go to a family therapist with your DD? Not so much about the college thing but to try and get your and her feelings out? It might go a long way toward helping ease all the hurt.

Just my 2 cents.

[Firebird]

I feel guilty that I can't help her. Angry that she left. And pissed off at the jackwagon for being such a douchecanoe (both words in one sentence!!) Working one letting the anger go and focusing on the future....

That's what will make the difference, Daphne. You can't change the past, but TRUST ME ON THIS-- you can change your behavior, and your daughter WILL notice, and it WILL pay dividends in your relationship.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Maybe more along the lines of most of these people clearly never had children over the age of 8 to make some of these comments.

My brother is a self centered 20 year old mooch. However my parents aren't totally innocent, they enable him. The best thing, IMO for all of them would be to boot him out.

Maybe the OP's relationship with her daughter will be better now that she moved out.

I know my relationship with my mom is world's better. We fought like cats & dogs when I lived there. We both love each other and don't dislike each other, we are just too much alike to be living under the same roof.

I feel guilty that I can't help her

Maybe admit that to her? My dad and I fought like mad when I got married because he did not approve of DH.

My hard feelings and anger lessened when he finally opened up about his marriage to my mom and how he didn't want me to make the same mistakes.

Maybe opening up and admitting that you feel awful this all happened would go a long way towards her talking to you again.

If you have not done so a simple apology for screwing up might go a long way.

[973beachbum]

Drama my Dad's definition of a mature adult was when you finally realize that you are actually the PITA SOB in the room. He said kids always think it isn't them. Being an adult is when you realize that we all are but you can be polite about others too at the same time.

Having a moody PITA 15 year old has finally taught me that my parents must have been saints. There were 5 of us and we must have drove them nuts. It is amazing how being on the other side of the exact same arguments gives me a whole knew perspective.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Drama my Dad's defination of a mature adult was when you finally realize that you are actually the PITA SOB in the room

Would pounding his head into the concrete make it sink in faster?

[whoisjohngalt]

Children are very perceptive and and at the same time very very forgiving towards their parents. On one hand, I feel bad for you, but on another, there is about 99.99% chance that your DD knows how your DH feels, even if he hasn't said anything to her and I am also 99.99% sure that she feels all this anger and resentment that YOU have towards her. I find it very hard to believe that your sentiment of "I am glad to pay CS, just so she doesn't live her" is not known to her.

I am also 99.99% sure that she will be very willing to listen and re-build your relationship if you ever ready for it.

I think you need some serious therapy to get rid of all those negative emotions towards your DD.

And one more thing, if she is living with her father and has good relationship with him (for whatever reason), stop referring to keep by all those names. Again, she is very well aware of that and will resent you for it.

Lena

[973beachbum]

Feb 11, 2011 12:34:21 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Drama my Dad's defination of a mature adult was when you finally realize that you are actually the PITA SOB in the room

Would pounding his head into the concrete make it sink in faster?

No, all it would do is get you talked about.

Seriously I have considered it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

No, all it would do is get you talked about.

Seriously I have considered it.

In a good way?

Nah I know it would do nothing to help, just make me feel really good at the time of the pounding.

I keep my distance from the mess because I know if I get involved that's probably what I am going to end up doing.

[shanendoah]

daphne: Given your situation, I would bet that you can find a free counselor or one that works on an income adjusted sliding scale. Start with going to counseling yourself. Get your emotions under control so that you're in a spot where you can honestly listen to DD's emotions and not try to justify.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The only person whose behavior you can control is yours. I learned that in therapy. Yeah people are going to try to get under our skin and there are some major assholes in the world, but I can't change them. I can only change how I react to them.

Doesn't mean it is easy, but a reponse is usually what people who send nasty emails want. Not responding takes the power away from them and puts it into your hands.

In other words learn to pick your battles. Responding to every snarky email gives him fuel to use against you with DD.

Learn to weild your blade when it counts and not every time an asshole says "boo".