Being a parent sucks sometimes (school related)

[Sum Dum Gai]

So, tonight was back to school night. School started last week. I thought the kids were kind of jazzed about it, but we got the following note from our younger daughter before heading to the school:

School 5th grade is too easy and I want a challenge. I want to get moved up a grade, homeschooled... I just want a challenge. I'm getting bored in class, and that leads to talking. I'm not learning anything, and most kids in my class think it's "too hard." PLEASE do something about it.

-Messy
Honor

Her names not actually Messy, obviously, but otherwise that's the exact note I got from here. Anyway, what the heck am I supposed to do now? I've been dreading this day for a couple years. I obviously don't want to leave her unchallenged and have her grow to dislike school and learning. At the same time I'm not actually sure that having her skip fifth grade is really a long term solution.

We talked to her principle a little bit, and we're meeting him tomorrow morning. His first reaction was pretty much "let's do it". He seemed pretty confident that she could handle the transition, but he's got to track down the procedures they go through for testing and whatnot to approve skipping a grade.

Any other parents been there? How did you handle it? Did it work out? Do you regret it?

[Deleted]

First, I would talk to my child and get her perspective. Then, go meet with her teacher for this year and see what is on the agenda and the curriculum. It is pretty early in the year. We have only had the first couple days of school and a lot doesn't get done. I would then meet with the Principal to talk about testing and enrichment classes. But, you don't necessarily have to move your child anywhere or home school to challenge your child. There are a lot of positive social skills also being learned at this age in her peer groups. If your child needs more challenge, i would start at home. Get her supplemental books to read, have her take up an instrument or give more stimulation and learning at home through reading, arts, music, going to the museum and so forth. That is where i would begin.

[Peace Of Mind]

I was always in trouble for talking and socializing during school because of boredom. I was also known to take over a teachers class now and then when they challenged me by saying "Would you like to teach the class, POM?" I would let her skip a grade if that's what she wants to do. But first I'd want to know if there was a way to do it on a trial basis or maybe try adding an advanced class to her curriculum as a test to see if that's what she needs or is ready for.

[Loopdilou]

No new standards are introduced in 5th grade and she was already bored out of her gourd last year so it seems reasonable to do so, but we'll see. It depends on how the school district handles grade skipping. We'll find out more tomorrow.

[justme]

Does the school have a gifted program? That helped a lot when I was in elementary school, though at my school you were still regular class a lot. My teachers were awesome and they came up with harder stuff for me to do. (Probably because I annoyed them finishing so early so they wanted to give me something to do since I kept asking for something to do.) I still did the same classwork as everyone else, but once I was finished she had other work for me to do. Like for math one teacher got a 6th grade book from someone and had me do the odd equations since the answers were in the back so I could check my work and only needed to ask her for help if needed. You could see if that's a possibility if she's a self-directed learner.

[Loopdilou]

No gifted classes for now. :/

[Apple]

I had to wait until 6th grade to get bumped up at all. Didn't skip a grade, but got sent to several 7 grade classes instead.

I wanted DS to skip a grade about that age, but he didn't want to do it for social reasons. He had friends in his class (he doesn't make friends easily) and the next class up had a kid who got away with all kinds of bullying because his mom worked there.

Even in my HS classes I'd get bored and "be a disruption to the class". If she can handle the social change, I'd say go for it. I know some people are worried about having their kid go from the top to the bottom as far as how well they do, but even in the classes I had with the higher grades, I was still at the top. Sounds like she'd be like that too, so no worries there.

[Loopdilou]

Luckily, 6th grade is back in the elementary school in our district. I might feel differently about it if she were going on to a jr high.

[Sum Dum Gai]

go meet with her teacher for this year and see what is on the agenda and the curriculum

5th grade is a weird year here. There are barely any new learning objectives in the curriculum. They go into a little more depth on the stuff they covered in 4th grade. It's not a total review year, but there isn't much new info introduced either. It drove my older one a little crazy last year. She was bored a lot too, but she works a little slower than her sister, and she seemed perfectly happy to read or talk quietly with her friends after finishing her work. I don't really know how to describe it, but she just had a better attitude about the whole thing. Being ahead of her class didn't seem to phase her as much. The younger one struggles with it.

If your child needs more challenge, i would start at home. Get her supplemental books to read, have her take up an instrument or give more stimulation and learning at home through reading, arts, music, going to the museum and so forth.

She's already in advanced band after school, and she reads constantly. She working on The Lord of the Rings now.

[Deleted]

Then, maybe you do want to move her up. You should really take a good look at her peer group and relationships and her maturity and go from there.

[susanb]

Hey Loop and Dark,

Ex teacher with no kids here. I remember reading about this in grad school and pulled out an old grad school text.

Two of the larger studies done on gifted children skipping grades (Robinson & Janos, 1986) and (Kulik and Kulik, 1992) found that:

"Contrary to the common wisdom that gifted children will suffer socially and emotionally if they skip grades and are forced to fit in with much older students, these youngsters showed no signs of maladjustment. On several measures of psychological and social maturity and adjustment, they equaled their much older college classmates and similarity gifted students who attended high school" (Sigleman and Rider)

The children in the first study skipped high school entirely and entered UW.

Another thing to keep in mind is that IQ is an excellent predictor of grades in high school, but becomes an instable predictor of adademic success when students enter college. Presumably, this is because many students who choose to go to college enjoy the academic environment and have relatively high IQ's (Again from Sigleman and Rider). Other qualities, such as motivation become really important. You know your kid and which atmosphere will keep her the most engaged and motivated.

Finally, people often associate high IQ's with poor social adjustment. The opposite is actually true unless your kiddo is closer to 180 than 130 (Sigleman and Rider).

[Deleted]

So, moving up will put them both in the same class? Is that an issue at all? Socially she'd make new friends without getting in her sister's turf? (not sure this is an issue) ... I'd say moving up seems like a good option, can't imagine sitting bored through the whole school year, day after day. I'd be interested to know the practices of the school... I wonder if they have a lot of kids skip 5th given how you describe the curriculum.

Also, I'm sure loop, and your family, would be great at and excel with homeschooling too ... but i know that's not always a viable option.

[Loopdilou]

Never tested her IQ, to be honested. She was identified as gifted though.

[Loopdilou]

Homeschooling I would do if I felt I wasn't going to fail her in math, but I may have too anyway.

Not worried so much about DD1 and "turf". They're only 15 months apart so they get along really well and hang out with the same kids after school anyway. DD2 is a very collected child, calm and quiet. Our biggest challenge will be her tendency not to speak up when she is having issues.. last year she wouldn't even admit that boredom was the problem. It's immensely frustrating at times.

[susanb]

Aug 30, 2012 23:56:27 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Never tested her IQ, to be honested. She was identified as gifted though.

Different schools identify gifted and talented differently, but most use some form of standardized testing. Probably safe to assume she has a high IQ. I wouldn't ask to have it tested either. Statistically, much much more likely that it is closer to 130 than 180.

[Loopdilou]

Aug 31, 2012 0:01:53 GMT -5 susanb said:

Aug 30, 2012 23:56:27 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Never tested her IQ, to be honested. She was identified as gifted though.

Every school identifies gifted and talented differently, but most use some form of standardized testing. Probably safe to assume she has a high IQ. I wouldn't ask to have it tested either. Statistically, much much more likely that it is closer to 130 than 180.

Dark and I are both over 130 and I have a feeling she's smarter than both of us thanks so much for the info!

[Deleted]

I did son no justice in math last year. It was the first time what we were doing didn't work and i wasn't as vigilant as i should have been in re-programing, and while he didn't exactly slip, he didn't make great progress and is doing Algebra 1/2 this year instead of Algebra 1... but at this point i'm not doing a lot of the teaching any more. We have the DIVE cd-rom lectures that go with Saxon, use Kahn Adademy to back that up, and then if he needs help, we work it out together. If i can't help, i have the math tutor on speed dial. My son likes Saxon, i know some don't... and itsa good program, although i think Singpore was more challenging, the teacher support for me just wasn't there... anyway, there are lots of resources for math and science out there, if that is the only thing holding you back ...

[Sum Dum Gai]

Dark and I are both over 130 and I have a feeling she's smarter than both of us thanks so much for the info!

What the hell! I've gone to great lengths to hide my intelligence here. Don't be ruinin' the dumb cool guy vibe I've got going on.

[Loopdilou]

Well, I've always known that if I need to homeschool that I've had you to turn to! We'll see how the meeting with the Principal goes and then go from there!

[Loopdilou]

Aug 31, 2012 0:10:31 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Dark and I are both over 130 and I have a feeling she's smarter than both of us thanks so much for the info!

What the hell! I've gone to great lengths to hide my intelligence here. Don't be ruinin' the dumb cool guy vibe I've got going on.

You killed that last night when you made your post on the financial meltdown.

[lynnerself]

Is she mature emotionally and socially?
The kids I have seen that skipped were fine academically, the issues came when their classmates started driving and dating and they were still a year younger.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Is she mature emotionally and socially?

Beats me. She's the only 10 year old I know really well.

[Spellbound454]

Is she mature emotionally and socially?
The kids I have seen that skipped were fine academically, the issues came when their classmates started driving and dating and they were still a year younger.

This would be my concern....You don't want to isolate her from her peers who are emotionally and socially at the same level.
Do the School have a gifted and talented program?
Could her teachers set work that is differentiated and appropriately challenging for her level?
What about extra curricula lessons or pastimes that could suitably challenge her....Music, Astronomy, Young scientist groups, Writers clubs.

Its is easy to get gifted children to a high academic level....but they might miss out on emotional development that comes to them naturally... as they mature.

[Deleted]

But it sounds like she already hangs out with the same kids as her sister, who is only a grade older. I'm thinking it would be an easier adjustment than maybe it is for some. Kids aren't robots either, its not like they just flip through a switch at each birthday and are suddenly ready for different things... some kids will always develop/mature a bit faster/slower. For that matter, a classroom can include kids born almost a year apart, depending on entrance cut offs and birthdasys. She isn't going to college at 10, which would definately be differerent.

[Deleted]

There is nothing wrong with sibs being in the same grade.

[whoisjohngalt]

Well, I'd say pull her out and homeschool, but I am not very objective on the subject. Realistically, though, I would allow her to skip a grade and see how it goes. I was incredibly bored in school and bc of that I never really learned good study habits and it made certain things much more harder for me later in college, while studying for professional exams and frankly, life in general.

Lena

[Deleted]

Homeschooling is fine if you want to homeschool and choose to do so. But, it isn't for everyone. I think there are a lot of positives aspects to traditional schooling. And, school isn't the be all and end all. All of her challenges don't have to come from school. A parent can easily supplement their child's education. And, there is value in learning to be "bored" as well. That is actually a valuable skill too. A lot of boring things happen in life and learning that there are some down times as well is something all kids need to learn. When at church, i make my kids sit through the "boring" sermon because they need to learn to just be. Obviously if your child is well above the level of material then of course you should make that judgement as well and move her up a grade. I am just talking in general.

[whoisjohngalt]

And, school isn't the be all and end all. All of her challenges don't have to come from school. A parent can easily supplement their child's education. And, there is value in learning to be "bored" as well. That is actually a valuable skill too. A lot of boring things happen in life and learning that there are some down times as well is something all kids need to learn. When at church, i make my kids sit through the "boring" sermon because they need to learn to just be. Obviously if your child is well above the level of material then of course you should make that judgement as well and move her up a grade. I am just talking in general.

No, school is not the "be all and end all", but I wouldn't want my kid to be bored for hours every.single.day and than come home and be challenged for 2-3 hrs. I value my time and I value my kids' time and being bored like that is a HUGE waste of time, energy and brain power.

Also, there is a big difference in being bored during a 1 hr sermon once a week and not being challenged academically.

There is also big difference between down time and being bored.

And really, I can't even start to addressing that "learning to be bored is a skill", bc I might get banned or at the very least get this thread locked up

[Deleted]

I think i already said that it is useful for short periods of time and that i already said that the OP should move up the child if this is a chronic problem.

[whoisjohngalt]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, I just don't see value in having a kid being bored, even for short periods of time