happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Aug 31, 2012 11:48:35 GMT -5
DS has an August birthday and could have started school a year before we started him, he was just barely old enough and of course I thought he was a genius. However our pediatrician at the time recommended we hold him back a year. Our pediatrician was skipped a year and while he did fine academically, he said it was hard for him socially. He was always smaller and younger than the other boys, too short to play on his HS basketball team but tall enough to play on his college basketball team because he had a growth spurt after graduating HS. Dr said that if you ask teachers which kids are the hardest to deal with, they will tell you the youngest boys in the class in both 6th grade and 8th grade - the more immature boys tend to be the ones that act up in class.
He said, however, that girls mature emotionally faster than boys do, so skipping a girl forward a year wouldn't cause the behavior problems skipping a boy a head might.
It worked out well for DS, he always did well in school (but then we had a gifted program and AP classes, and his school divided the kids into classes based on ability, so I don't think he was bored). Socially he was popular and always had a girlfriend.
In your case, the only thing that would concern me would be to make sure her reasons for wanting to leave her current class are really because she's bored and not so much that she got into a class with some jerky students or an idiot teacher who are making her life hard. If that's the case maybe she only needs to transfer to a different 5th grade class.
Best of luck, it is hard to know what to do sometimes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 12:29:59 GMT -5
Didn't your Mom have a similar dilemma with you Dark? I don't know what you should do. Here we have programs and schools for gifted kids.
FWIW, it was many moons ago, but my Mom put me in school a year early so I was always a year younger than my classmates. I was also in gifted programs and took advanced classes. It didn't affect me negatively socially. The only time I remembered it mattering to me was when everyone else started getting driving licenses and I was too young. It's not like I went home and cried about it every night though.
Thinking about all that kind of makes me sad. My Mom did the legwork to get me in the programs and schools, then she never pushed me to go to college. I made a 28 on the ACT the first and only time I took it, our mailbox was stuffed every day with materials from colleges, and there I sat, not applying for scholarships, and not knowing that grants and loans even existed.
Anyway, back on topic....... I do think you need to do something, I'm just not sure what. You don't want her to completely lose interest in school because she finds it so boring. It will be very difficult to come back from that if it happens.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 12:40:52 GMT -5
Talked to the Principal this morning and, thank gods, he's a young upstart and is totally against teaching to the lowest factor and has gotten his teachers training on dealing with advanced students, is starting after school enrichment classes for gifted students AND is enthusiastic about figuring out how to deal with Messy (aka DD2). She'll take the 5th and 6th grade CSTs next week to see where she's at. He's working on the rest of the logistics as well.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 12:49:07 GMT -5
We're not exactly objective either, based on Dark's education experiences. Our older daughter is so good at dealing with things that we tend to forget that Messy isn't. Messy is also, I suspect, more intelligent so needs that much more challenge.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 12:58:00 GMT -5
Oh craptastic.. now I have to write a letter!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 31, 2012 12:59:23 GMT -5
The exact same dilemma actually, my 4th grade teacher recommended that I skip 5th grade at the end of 4th. We had a GAT program, and there were two other kids in my tracked group in 4th grade. She recommended that all three of us skip 5th. The other two did, and my mom was worried about me fitting in socially. It really blew for me. 5th grade was mind numbingly boring, and my two best friends weren't there to commiserate with because they were in 6th. I went from being a straight A student, county mental math champion, etc., to a huge behavioral problem in one year. It was kind of startling how fast I went off the rails actually.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 13:00:52 GMT -5
Honey, write a letter!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 13:06:13 GMT -5
The exact same dilemma actually, my 4th grade teacher recommended that I skip 5th grade at the end of 4th. We had a GAT program, and there were two other kids in my tracked group in 4th grade. She recommended that all three of us skip 5th. The other two did, and my mom was worried about me fitting in socially. It really blew for me. 5th grade was mind numbingly boring, and my two best friends weren't there to commiserate with because they were in 6th. I went from being a straight A student, county mental math champion, etc., to a huge behavioral problem in one year. It was kind of startling how fast I went off the rails actually. Uh-oh.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 31, 2012 13:09:49 GMT -5
Last year and it was the same one. She seemed to really lose interest in school last year, except for Science which she loves. She stopped doing her homework, stopped turning in assignments, just seemed really disinterested. We had to put our foot down, and I actually ended up taking every single thing out of her bedroom to deal with it. She had a bed, dresser, desk, a couple pencils, and a notebook. That was it. I even took the pictures off the walls. Her room looked like a prison cell. She had to go straight to her room when she got home and couldn't leave until we had checked all of her homework. After that she got better about getting her work done, but none of it was challenging.
Having seen her homework I can totally understand why she was bored. The homework they were sending home was ridiculous. Coloring pages, draw a picture and write a one paragraph story, etc.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 31, 2012 13:11:53 GMT -5
To who, for what, and can I use the phrase uninspired union dead wood teaching to the lowest common denominator?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Aug 31, 2012 13:12:38 GMT -5
I just want to thank you for this conversation. While were who knows how long away from having a kid in school (or even having a kid), Dh and I have talked a lot about school. We've discussed him homeschooling, but we both like the social aspect of schools. Currently, we're considering either a private school- and probably non-traditional - either Montessori or Waldorf, or moving to a much more expensive neighborhood where the public schools are some of the best in the country (and have lots of options for gifted students). This conversation makes me feel better about spending the money (in the future), one way or the other.
And yes, I know that it is very possible that we won't have a gifted child, but I think that the non-traditional private schools and really good public school systems benefit all kids, not just the gifted ones.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 13:16:44 GMT -5
To who, for what, and can I use the phrase uninspired union dead wood teaching to the lowest common denominator? To Dr. McIntyre and/or Dr. McLaughlin re: why we want her to move up and no you can't.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 31, 2012 13:17:48 GMT -5
If it were my kid, I wouldn't skip - I would look for a charter or private school that would offer more of a challenging arena. Maybe a Montessori type of school that has multi-age classrooms and caters to individual learning.
Actually, i should say, if it were my boy I wouldn't skip him - because he is already the youngest in his grade. But my daughter is the oldest, so I would consider skipping her, and then she would be the youngest. But, I would look at alternatives before just plucking her away from 5th grade.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Aug 31, 2012 13:18:18 GMT -5
FWIW I was in the gifted classes all though school. When I say I was bored out of my skull and didn't have to try, I mean I was bored out of my skull and didn't have to try in the gifted classes. That was me too. I probably would have gotten into a lot more trouble in classes if I wasn't at the top of the class, they gave me way more leeway. ;D If the elementary school doesn't have gifted, after you sort this issue out, start looking at the middle (junior?) and high school she'd be going to to see if you're going to have to find alternatives then too. I had to take all AP classes because even honors were too stupid and I'd do worse. I actually probably should have been taking classes at the CC before my senior year, but I didn't want to graduate HS with an AA and cut my college time short by 2 years. Actuallly I was bored out of my skull in AP classes. I didn't take the CC classes because they wouldn't transfer to the University that I wanted to go to. They wouldn't be rigorious enough to count for equilivent credits. However the AP testing would. Also I didn't study for the AP tests (actually I stayed up till 3am having a sleepover the night before one of them) and did fantastically well on them and entered with a bunch of college credits anyway. Also I didn't get into trouble in school because A) I was the 'smart one and B) the superintendant and my dad are BFFs
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 13:18:51 GMT -5
We'd probably go Montessori if we had the option, though I firmly believe that Public Schools can be successful, you just have to be determined in working with them.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Aug 31, 2012 13:26:50 GMT -5
Last year and it was the same one. She seemed to really lose interest in school last year, except for Science which she loves. She stopped doing her homework, stopped turning in assignments, just seemed really disinterested. We had to put our foot down, and I actually ended up taking every single thing out of her bedroom to deal with it. She had a bed, dresser, desk, a couple pencils, and a notebook. That was it. I even took the pictures off the walls. Her room looked like a prison cell. She had to go straight to her room when she got home and couldn't leave until we had checked all of her homework. After that she got better about getting her work done, but none of it was challenging. Having seen her homework I can totally understand why she was bored. The homework they were sending home was ridiculous. Coloring pages, draw a picture and write a one paragraph story, etc. I understand getting bored with school. I actually refused to do homework at home after about 8th grade. Unless it was an exceptional situation, like a project/researh paper. I did all my homework during school, while classes were going on. It was a horrible habit but I did it all thoughout highschool, including my AP courses. This also included studying for tests. My parents were concered at first, but when all the marks were between 95 and 100 they stopped questioning my system. Dark and Loop I really hope you can figure out some way for Messy to be engaged with school.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 31, 2012 13:31:20 GMT -5
Well, I'd say pull her out and homeschool, but I am not very objective on the subject. Realistically, though, I would allow her to skip a grade and see how it goes. I was incredibly bored in school and bc of that I never really learned good study habits and it made certain things much more harder for me later in college, while studying for professional exams and frankly, life in general. Lena I'm sure you guys will figure out the right solution (hell if I know what that is). The worst thing you can do is ignore the developing situation like my parents did. Part of the reason school sucked from middle school on was because I was so effing bored all the time. If you're not being challenged academically and you're not enjoying yourself socially, school is an enormous waste of time. P.S. I love that her new nickname is Messy
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 31, 2012 13:33:22 GMT -5
Emotionally and socially being plucked out of your neighborhood school, driven 20 miles down the road to Gilroy to go to a private school, and not seeing your friends anymore is going to be a bigger shock than staying at your local school and jumping a grade. I think. The 5th and 6th graders have the same lunch period, so she can still see her friends every day. And she'll be in the 6th grade class with the neighbor kids that she already hangs out with after school anyway.
The whole thing is obnoxious. All I wanted was for them to skate through elementary without any issues, and then they can go to the magnet middle school. We were almost there. Then the district decided to take 6th out of middle school and put it back at the elementary school, so we've got an extra year to worry about. I suppose it wouldn't have made much difference, since 5th grade is the issue, but it would have been easier for us to decide to supplement at home or whatever in order to get her through one grade.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 13:36:06 GMT -5
Skrillex (DD1's new nickname due to the haircut) does her homework during class, always has. Messy has a bit less control and talks.. and drives me insane!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 31, 2012 13:41:11 GMT -5
Skrillex (DD1's new nickname due to the haircut) does her homework during class, always has. Messy has a bit less control and talks.. and drives me insane! But Messy is smarter and therefore has a redeeming feature
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 13:43:56 GMT -5
Skrillex (DD1's new nickname due to the haircut) does her homework during class, always has. Messy has a bit less control and talks.. and drives me insane! But Messy is smarter and therefore has a redeeming feature Not by enough to make it worth it! ;D
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 31, 2012 13:45:51 GMT -5
What if she grows up to make enough money to support you in your old age?
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justme
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Post by justme on Aug 31, 2012 13:47:23 GMT -5
Yes, she could still be bored in AP classes (it seems I was a lot like CarolinaKat so I don't want to say stuff she already has), but bored in AP, for me, was better than being mind numbingly bored in honors or regular where I would have been tempted to do exactly like Messy did last year - just not do the work. And trouble could have escalted beyond a teacher telling me to knock it off. The only thing that kept me actually doing my work was know that good grades were my ticket into whatever college I wanted to go to (my parents made a big point of that starting in middle school, grades=getting the hell away from us).
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 31, 2012 13:48:17 GMT -5
I'm raising good YMers. They would mock us for not being more financially prudent, then us in the cheapest state run retirement home they could find.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 31, 2012 13:55:00 GMT -5
I'm raising good YMers. They would mock us for not being more financially prudent, then us in the cheapest state run retirement home they could find. Probably. That's why you need to mingle the good YM stuff with a heavy dose of religious guilt. You are really dropping the ball on that one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 13:56:04 GMT -5
Agreed, non-issue. This is when you tell a kid to suck it up and don't be a wanker Fair enough, and maybe your kid isn't a wanker. I have a cousin who is one year younger than me who skipped a grade. So instead of being a grade ahead of her, we graduated from high school the same year, graduated from college the same time, etc. We weren't siblings and we didn't go to the same school and I still resented her. It seemed like it came up at every Christmas dinner and family gathering that she skipped a grade, that her GPA was whatever, that her ACT scores were whatever. I hated it. And in my little middle school drama queen mind, her success was a dig at me. Because she was intelligent, it somehow implied that I was not. As far as my actual sibling goes, I have a sister who is one year older/one grade ahead of me. We were on the same sports teams, in the same clubs, had a lot of the same friends... and we absolutely hated each other all through school. I always felt like I was in her shadow, she always felt like I was in her business. We have been best friends since the day she moved away to college and we got some breathing room. I think we would have killed each other if we had been in all of the same classes as well. Your kids may be more emotionally mature than I was. But I thought I would put it out there that I am a fairly intelligent and well-adjusted adult, I was a fairly well-adjusted kid, and I never once told my parents how I felt that my cousin was in my grade despite seething with jealousy at the time.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Aug 31, 2012 13:58:04 GMT -5
We weren't siblings and we didn't go to the same school and I still resented her. It seemed like it came up at every Christmas dinner and family gathering that she skipped a grade, that her GPA was whatever, that her ACT scores were whatever. I hated it. And in my little middle school drama queen mind, her success was a dig at me.
I can totally see this being an issue, and with siblings I imagine it would be even worse. Having one child labeled "gifted" and the other labeled normal would make a lot of "normal" kids stabby.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Aug 31, 2012 14:01:20 GMT -5
I think you know your kid best and you know what is going to work best for her. My boss's daughter skipped 3rd grade. She's now a sophmore in high school and is doing well. The only real area of issue is that she is tiny and playing soccer for high school. There she was last year at just barely 14, barely 5', not even 100 pounds and going up against 18 yo women. Yep, despite her size limitations she still spent sometime playing varsity. It worked out well for her. She is doing IB coursework, on the debate team, and did the school musical last year. The downside was that by skipping a grade she just missed out on the "middlers" program (my assumption, the boss said she was wait listed her year, so maybe she could have gotten in if she had been in "her" class). Her brother who technically is smarter than she is, stayed with his grade, but then in junior high he made the "middlers" program which is at a high school and he essentially gets to take high school classes all through junior high, then IB classes in high school and go to nearby university during high school. For him, it was a better choice to stay in his current grade and then go to the middlers program. He's very spacey and I had no idea he was techically smarter than his sister. I don't envy your decision at all. I'm sitting here a little freaked out that my 2.5 yo that just started talking this month has most of the "requirements" for kindergarten down. It's like crap. We haven't even done daycare or preschool (yet) with him. He still has 3 years before he can start kindergarten.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 14:01:58 GMT -5
Emotionally and socially being plucked out of your neighborhood school, driven 20 miles down the road to Gilroy to go to a private school, and not seeing your friends anymore is going to be a bigger shock than staying at your local school and jumping a grade. I think. The 5th and 6th graders have the same lunch period, so she can still see her friends every day. And she'll be in the 6th grade class with the neighbor kids that she already hangs out with after school anyway. The whole thing is obnoxious. All I wanted was for them to skate through elementary without any issues, and then they can go to the magnet middle school. We were almost there. Then the district decided to take 6th out of middle school and put it back at the elementary school, so we've got an extra year to worry about. I suppose it wouldn't have made much difference, since 5th grade is the issue, but it would have been easier for us to decide to supplement at home or whatever in order to get her through one grade. The effect may be the same either way. If she leaves her friends to go to a different school she can see them on the weekends. If she leaves them to go to another grade, she will leave them when she goes to the junior high. Whatever she does, she'll want to go in with the intent to make new friends in her new class.
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Loopdilou
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Post by Loopdilou on Aug 31, 2012 14:03:18 GMT -5
Sarah, just admit it - you were a wanker (j/k of course) Dark - have you written a letter yet?
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