zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 22, 2012 9:59:17 GMT -5
They don't lack ID. They can't even be seen without it at a doctors office. If they say they don't have ID, it's because they are scamming some system somewhere.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 10:02:41 GMT -5
I need one for everything. To get a job, to spend money, to rent a storage unit, to rent an apt, to rent a car, at the doctor's office and so on. In my state, a state issued id card is much cheaper than a driver's license.
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Wizard of Id
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Post by Wizard of Id on Aug 22, 2012 10:06:56 GMT -5
There are non-driver ID's but you still have to pay for them. Maybe it's an economic issue.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 22, 2012 10:10:27 GMT -5
Hm. Sounds like the need for ID varies depending on what you do and where you do it. Honestly, since I moved back to Florida 5 years ago, I think I've been asked to produce my driver's license once - when I got a ticket about 3 years ago. None of the docs have ever asked and nobody else has either.
Oh, wait, of course they ask for it when I rent a car.
But that's it. So I guess if the people in question aren't driving, it's conceivable they wouldn't need one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:12:59 GMT -5
I live in CA and no one ever asks to see my license other than a police officer if I do something wrong on the road. ;D
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 10:16:31 GMT -5
Hm. Sounds like the need for ID varies depending on what you do and where you do it. Honestly, since I moved back to Florida 5 years ago, I think I've been asked to produce my driver's license once - when I got a ticket about 3 years ago. None of the docs have ever asked and nobody else has either. Oh, wait, of course they ask for it when I rent a car. But that's it. So I guess if the people in question aren't driving, it's conceivable they wouldn't need one. I think this has more to do with where they live. This sounds like an urban problem. Much larger percents of people in urban areas don't ever get a DL because they can use mass transit so they don't need it. I live in suburbia so I need a car to get just about anywhere. If I needed a new DL or other ID I could just drive where ever I had to to get it. I think the problem with the ID's is in some places the offices they would need to get to to get that new ID isn't on the mass transit line where the people without DL's live. So this would require them to pay out a good amount of money to get there which is a problem since if you live in an inner city with no DL you probably don't have much extra money handing around for this. I have also not been asked to show my ID except at the DMV in years. I guess if I rented a car I would but other than that I doubt it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:18:45 GMT -5
ID in CA is $31.
I asked recently because my DS doesn't seem to have yet been able to pass the testing to drive, but needs ID. Even if you are in the testing process, which is $31 for 3 shots at the test, it is an additional $31 for the ID.
I think the bigger problem is much of our population is illegal, living in poverty, or just doesn't care to "register themselves" with the DMV, which then gives you jury duty each year....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:26:32 GMT -5
True, but it is also pretty much a guarantee of a yearly jury duty summons in this state. Many people don't get ID because they don't need it for anything and it just makes them have to go deal with jury duty each year.
We had people yesterday in court who's one way mileage to the court was 100 miles for jury duty! If I lived in one of those remote areas, and didn't need to drive, I wouldn't have a license.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 22, 2012 10:29:00 GMT -5
I've read recently that many young people are just delaying or forgoing getting a driver license. It's just not as big a deal to them as it was to earlier generations.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 10:30:40 GMT -5
Even at 31 bucks, that 3 dollars a month to save. Once you get there. For people in places like AC it would require a taxi ride at about $150 or a solid day on mass transit at about $30 at least. I have heard of people in more rural areas where it is more like an hour and a half in a car. I can't imagine how expensive a cab would be for that type of ride.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 22, 2012 10:31:27 GMT -5
There are non-driver ID's but you still have to pay for them. Maybe it's an economic issue. I know money is tight all over, but if you cant budget 10 or 12 bucks for an ID then you are doing something wrong. And if voting was that important to you, then you should be able to say that much money in a years time. True, and voting is important to me, so even if money was tight, I'd probably save it up and make sure I had ID. On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with the idea that it should essentially cost something to vote. If there's a charge or fee associated with voting, that might be a barrier to people even if it's a low barrier. As our system currently stands, it is not OK to essentially charge a fee to vote, which is what you're proposing.
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jaya3300
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Post by jaya3300 on Aug 22, 2012 10:45:21 GMT -5
1. they lost it and can't afford to replace it 2. they don't have a use for it 3. they lost it and don't have the documentations (certified birth certificate etc) in order to replace it 4. they have an id that is expired cause they can't afford to replace it 5. they have an id that has outdated info 6. they lost it and can't take time off of work to replace it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:47:46 GMT -5
There are non-driver ID's but you still have to pay for them. Maybe it's an economic issue. I know money is tight all over, but if you cant budget 10 or 12 bucks for an ID then you are doing something wrong. And if voting was that important to you, then you should be able to say that much money in a years time. Except they were not given a year's time. They were given less than a month's time. It is not just the ID, it is all the other requirements it takes to get said ID, plus the time it takes to get them. Not all states allow for mail ins to get your birth certificate, many states require a photo ID or a parent and their photo ID to get the birth certificate etc. Also, many students do not get a separate photo ID when they go to college because they don't need it, until 21. However, many of these new laws require photo ID with expiration dates which many student IDs do not have. Also, for an elderly person, the time and money may take more than a year to get/do. Especially if the records are not online (as many older records in some places are not).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:48:33 GMT -5
I know money is tight all over, but if you cant budget 10 or 12 bucks for an ID then you are doing something wrong. And if voting was that important to you, then you should be able to say that much money in a years time. True, and voting is important to me, so even if money was tight, I'd probably save it up and make sure I had ID. On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with the idea that it should essentially cost something to vote. If there's a charge or fee associated with voting, that might be a barrier to people even if it's a low barrier. As our system currently stands, it is not OK to essentially charge a fee to vote, which is what you're proposing. Which btw, was ruled illegal/unconstitutional.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 22, 2012 10:51:09 GMT -5
...in my experience, a common objection to obtaining proper ID is that their improper ID will become forfeit/found out...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 10:55:18 GMT -5
I get ID'd all the time. I have to show my license whenever I buy alcohol so the cashier can enter my d/o/b in the register.
I also had to provide a copy of my ID when I refinanced, it's apparently a requirement of the Patriot Act, because, you know, terrorist will flee the US when required to show ID at a refinance.
I also have to provide a copy of my ID to the doctors office to help prevent insurance fraud.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 10:55:37 GMT -5
Which btw, was ruled illegal/unconstitutional. They arent charging you to vote. they are just requiring an ID.. Come on people, its not that hard. Which costs money to get. It probably will get up to the Supreme Court, which has previously rules that anything that is a "poll tax" is illegal. And requiring a fee for a ID, that is required would fall under that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 11:02:51 GMT -5
I'm only assuming, here, but it is probably due to upbringing. If you are brought up by people who don't have IDs you probably don't see the need for them.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Aug 22, 2012 11:03:53 GMT -5
1. they lost it and can't afford to replace it 2. they don't have a use for it 3. they lost it and don't have the documentations (certified birth certificate etc) in order to replace it 4. they have an id that is expired cause they can't afford to replace it 5. they have an id that has outdated info 6. they lost it and can't take time off of work to replace it I'd add: 7. they never bothered to get one and they don't have a need for one as they are driving without it, aren't doing things (school, drs, legal employment) that requires one.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on Aug 22, 2012 11:06:40 GMT -5
I'm only assuming, here, but it is probably due to upbringing. If you are brought up by people who don't have IDs you probably don't see the need for them. if you were brought up by people who spend all day travelling from one voting site to another to vote in multiple districts...you probably don't see anything wrong with it.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 11:07:24 GMT -5
Forgot about buying booze!
TN has a voter id law now. They also have a law stating everyone must show proper id every time you purchase alcohol. I bet most people there have id.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 11:11:40 GMT -5
Which costs money to get. It probably will get up to the Supreme Court, which has previously rules that anything that is a "poll tax" is illegal. And requiring a fee for a ID, that is required would fall under that. Excuses, Its only as hard as you want to make it. I would have no problem with requiring an ID to vote as long as getting one was fairly cheap and easy to obtain. In many areas it just isn't either cheap or easy. That is when it becomes a poll tax and a means to disenfranchise people not protect the process.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 11:23:05 GMT -5
Lets allow "food stamps" to be redeemed for an ID.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 11:24:07 GMT -5
Lets allow "food stamps" to be redeemed for an ID. Actually, Food stamps are on a benefit card that has the persons picture on it, so it is a form of ID. At least in NY.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 22, 2012 11:42:59 GMT -5
I have no idea how someone can function in today's modern world without an ID. You need one for just about everything. You need it to drive, to do anything with banking, to go to work, to get a job, to qualify for assistance, to get on an airplane, and I'm sure much more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 11:44:11 GMT -5
Which costs money to get. It probably will get up to the Supreme Court, which has previously rules that anything that is a "poll tax" is illegal. And requiring a fee for a ID, that is required would fall under that. Excuses, Its only as hard as you want to make it. Just because you believe that, does not make it true. There is ample evidence that people are being stopped from voting based on the cost and time needed, because of these laws.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 11:48:11 GMT -5
I have no idea how someone can function in today's modern world without an ID. You need one for just about everything. You need it to drive, to do anything with banking, to go to work, to get a job, to qualify for assistance, to get on an airplane, and I'm sure much more. No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot. ;D A job requires an SS card but that isn't a photo id either. I don't know for a fact but I think assistance only requires minimal things like a bill and an SS card to get it and then they give them a welfare id. Again it is not something that I think would get you a state photo id but enough that the local liquor store would sell you a bottle of wine if you didn't look old enough.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 11:52:51 GMT -5
I have no idea how someone can function in today's modern world without an ID. You need one for just about everything. You need it to drive, to do anything with banking, to go to work, to get a job, to qualify for assistance, to get on an airplane, and I'm sure much more. A ton of my friends from college/high school did not get a state ID till they hit 21. Our state made driving under 18 expensive and a pain in the ass, once you hit college the student IDs worked for most things, including the local credit unions and some of the banks. Social security card plus your student ID was enough for a job, and if you did not fly, you really did not need it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 22, 2012 11:54:45 GMT -5
"No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot."
Maybe this shows me to be a white middle class snob, but how can you live without a bank account? And don't you need some form of ID to rent an apartment?
And I'm not familar at all about assistance, but don't you need to produce documents that show you need it? I don't know, income tax statements or pay stubs or something to prove you don't have money. And don't you need to show yoru bank account balance to prove you don't have a million dollars sitting in the bank? Otherwise everyone would qualify.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 11:55:17 GMT -5
Voter fraud is a real problem. This is a partial solution. Add fingerprinting and we'll have a 99% solution.
Oh the slippery slope though!
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