wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 14:18:44 GMT -5
more importantly how do they drink if they don' have ID? you need ID to drink, and everyone drinks don't they? (especially after lunch at work like me? ) They don't card me anymore. Tennessee cards everyone, every time. They now have a voter id law. They carded everyone at the table ordering a beer from me on down the line to grandpa.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2012 14:22:00 GMT -5
Oh jeez! I remember when I was in my early 20's we went to a concert at some venue, and they carded everyone. No big deal to me, I was in the prime carding age - lots of night clubs, near a college, etc. But I was standing next to a guy who was nearly 60, and he was annoyed and amused at the same time. He was funny about it, but he has a good point. There are just some people who are clearly not 20 years old, and why waste everyone's time making them prove just how old they are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 14:23:46 GMT -5
Obviously I live in a much different world than these people. There are hundreds of things that require a state issued id and I can't imagine these people do none of those. It is also a nice assumption that all those lacking id would be voting for Obama. I think its a nice distraction from the real issues. Much easier to claim the mean old Republicans required id and that's why you lost, not that people were unhappy with the job you were doing. In June, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai listed off a number of legislative accomplishments. "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done," Turzai said. Also, it is not just minorities but young people who have student IDs instead of a state ID and elderly whose IDs have expired. Again, give people more than two-three months to get the IDs and you might get people to believe it is not targeting certain groups.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 14:25:01 GMT -5
It is kind of annoying but that is the law in TN. The gas stations have it plastered all over the beer coolers. My brother and I went to grocery store and got beer. They needed both of our ids.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 14:29:18 GMT -5
Obviously I live in a much different world than these people. There are hundreds of things that require a state issued id and I can't imagine these people do none of those. It is also a nice assumption that all those lacking id would be voting for Obama. I think its a nice distraction from the real issues. Much easier to claim the mean old Republicans required id and that's why you lost, not that people were unhappy with the job you were doing. In June, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai listed off a number of legislative accomplishments. "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done," Turzai said. Also, it is not just minorities but young people who have student IDs instead of a state ID and elderly whose IDs have expired. Again, give people more than two-three months to get the IDs and you might get people to believe it is not targeting certain groups. He wouldn't be the first politician to make an untrue statement. I find college students lacking ids to be odd. My campus had 30k students and the only thing a college id got you off campus was a discount. It did not work for anything else. Banks, landlords, stores, movie theaters, jobs, utilities, they all needed state issued ids.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 22, 2012 14:41:29 GMT -5
In June, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai listed off a number of legislative accomplishments. "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done," Turzai said. Also, it is not just minorities but young people who have student IDs instead of a state ID and elderly whose IDs have expired. Again, give people more than two-three months to get the IDs and you might get people to believe it is not targeting certain groups. He wouldn't be the first politician to make an untrue statement. Nor would he be the first politician to reveal an ulterior motive.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 22, 2012 15:26:51 GMT -5
Obviously I live in a much different world than these people. There are hundreds of things that require a state issued id and I can't imagine these people do none of those. It is also a nice assumption that all those lacking id would be voting for Obama. I think its a nice distraction from the real issues. Much easier to claim the mean old Republicans required id and that's why you lost, not that people were unhappy with the job you were doing. In June, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai listed off a number of legislative accomplishments. "Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania: Done," Turzai said. Also, it is not just minorities but young people who have student IDs instead of a state ID and elderly whose IDs have expired. Again, give people more than two-three months to get the IDs and you might get people to believe it is not targeting certain groups. These laws have been passed over the last TWO YEARS in various states. People were given more than 2-3 months to get an ID if needed. If they were waiting for the courts to make a ruling, who's fault is it that they don't have an ID now - not the state's or the court's but their own. Nothing was stopping them from going ahead and getting one except their own choice.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Aug 22, 2012 16:13:19 GMT -5
Maybe you misunderstood what I mean by legal presence as it relates to obtaining a government issued ID. I don't know about other states, but in VA to obtain an ID or DL from our DMV you must provide proof that you are here legally. I accidentally let my DL expire in 2008 and had to prove legal presence when I went to renew it 2 days after the expiration date (they changed from last day of birth month to birthday for expiration dates and I hadn't noticed). It was hassle but I made the trip back home to get the docs so I could renew. Accepted forms of proof are birth certificate, military ID, unexpired ID card or DL from another state, SSN card among many others plus a proof of address such as utility bill for adult or copy of school record for child. Given the length of the list of acceptable documentation and the low cost, the arguments about how difficult it is to obtain a government ID for a lower income or elderly individual just don't hold water. I think the biggest problem is for people that moved from out of state and are missing documentation needed to get local ID.I had similar problems when I moved to Maryland. It took me several weeks and three trips to the MVA to get a Maryland Drivers License. I showed up with my US Passport, Drivers License from previous state, Birth Certificate, Marriage License, Social Security Card, vehicle title and registration from old state. They refused me a license until I got my Social Security card reissued with my new last name, then I went back and they turned me away again and said I had to bring a utility bill mailed to me through the US mail (utilities are in my husbands name so I couldnt use them). Oddly enough they accepted my mortgage statement from my house in another state that had been addressed to my Maryland address. But the process can be difficult and lengthy and involve a lot of time off of work.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 16:18:57 GMT -5
Odd several people have told me you don't need to prove address in Maryland.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 16:48:13 GMT -5
Odd several people have told me you don't need to prove address in Maryland. I think this is wordage thing. You don't need to prove your adress to vote but you do need a dL or other picture ID to vote. Sounds goo until you realize that DMV won't issue you a DL unless you prove you address. My personal favorite is NJ DMV wont accept my NJ state DL that they issued to me as proof for anything.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 17:04:50 GMT -5
I was told when you got or renewed a license you didn't need to prove residence. If you change your address, they just give you a piece of paper to go with your license that has the new address on it. Like that's not going to get lost.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Aug 22, 2012 19:17:46 GMT -5
I was told when you got or renewed a license you didn't need to prove residence. If you change your address, they just give you a piece of paper to go with your license that has the new address on it. Like that's not going to get lost. You should have come to the MVA with me and explained it to them the first two times when they refused to issue me a license.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 19:55:09 GMT -5
I was told when you got or renewed a license you didn't need to prove residence. If you change your address, they just give you a piece of paper to go with your license that has the new address on it. Like that's not going to get lost. You should have come to the MVA with me and explained it to them the first two times when they refused to issue me a license. I prefer to limit my dealings with MD govt agencies. I have yet to have a good experience. Their website does say you must provide proof of a SSN and that the name on the card must match the documents used to prove age, identity and licensure. If you are renewing you only need the expiring license, proof of SSN and the fee. No proof of residence needed after initial licensure. So when you renew you won't have to prove residence provided they don't change the rules. That is what is odd to me, in WV until 2012, you only had to prove identity upon initial licensure but you had to prove residence each time you got a new license.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 22, 2012 20:00:27 GMT -5
Oh jeez! I remember when I was in my early 20's we went to a concert at some venue, and they carded everyone. No big deal to me, I was in the prime carding age - lots of night clubs, near a college, etc. But I was standing next to a guy who was nearly 60, and he was annoyed and amused at the same time. He was funny about it, but he has a good point. There are just some people who are clearly not 20 years old, and why waste everyone's time making them prove just how old they are. ...still makes for a good story... like that beer commercial where the convenience store cashier cards the lady, and then she smiles at him as she lifts her head, and then he sees her crow's feet...
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 23, 2012 7:01:24 GMT -5
Maybe you misunderstood what I mean by legal presence as it relates to obtaining a government issued ID. I don't know about other states, but in VA to obtain an ID or DL from our DMV you must provide proof that you are here legally. I accidentally let my DL expire in 2008 and had to prove legal presence when I went to renew it 2 days after the expiration date (they changed from last day of birth month to birthday for expiration dates and I hadn't noticed). It was hassle but I made the trip back home to get the docs so I could renew. Accepted forms of proof are birth certificate, military ID, unexpired ID card or DL from another state, SSN card among many others plus a proof of address such as utility bill for adult or copy of school record for child. Given the length of the list of acceptable documentation and the low cost, the arguments about how difficult it is to obtain a government ID for a lower income or elderly individual just don't hold water. I think the biggest problem is for people that moved from out of state and are missing documentation needed to get local ID.I had similar problems when I moved to Maryland. It took me several weeks and three trips to the MVA to get a Maryland Drivers License. I showed up with my US Passport, Drivers License from previous state, Birth Certificate, Marriage License, Social Security Card, vehicle title and registration from old state. They refused me a license until I got my Social Security card reissued with my new last name, then I went back and they turned me away again and said I had to bring a utility bill mailed to me through the US mail (utilities are in my husbands name so I couldnt use them). Oddly enough they accepted my mortgage statement from my house in another state that had been addressed to my Maryland address. But the process can be difficult and lengthy and involve a lot of time off of work. Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 23, 2012 7:24:06 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem is for people that moved from out of state and are missing documentation needed to get local ID.I had similar problems when I moved to Maryland. It took me several weeks and three trips to the MVA to get a Maryland Drivers License. I showed up with my US Passport, Drivers License from previous state, Birth Certificate, Marriage License, Social Security Card, vehicle title and registration from old state. They refused me a license until I got my Social Security card reissued with my new last name, then I went back and they turned me away again and said I had to bring a utility bill mailed to me through the US mail (utilities are in my husbands name so I couldnt use them). Oddly enough they accepted my mortgage statement from my house in another state that had been addressed to my Maryland address. But the process can be difficult and lengthy and involve a lot of time off of work. Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy. I don't know about when she went but MD now lists what you need to get a license if you are coming from another state. It even specifically mentions that the name on documents used to verify SSN must match the name on the other documents you are using to prove identity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 9:23:35 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem is for people that moved from out of state and are missing documentation needed to get local ID.I had similar problems when I moved to Maryland. It took me several weeks and three trips to the MVA to get a Maryland Drivers License. I showed up with my US Passport, Drivers License from previous state, Birth Certificate, Marriage License, Social Security Card, vehicle title and registration from old state. They refused me a license until I got my Social Security card reissued with my new last name, then I went back and they turned me away again and said I had to bring a utility bill mailed to me through the US mail (utilities are in my husbands name so I couldnt use them). Oddly enough they accepted my mortgage statement from my house in another state that had been addressed to my Maryland address. But the process can be difficult and lengthy and involve a lot of time off of work. Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy. Except many of these laws have been past recently, and people may have had to save up the money to pay for each piece to be able to get the state ID.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 9:48:05 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem is for people that moved from out of state and are missing documentation needed to get local ID.I had similar problems when I moved to Maryland. It took me several weeks and three trips to the MVA to get a Maryland Drivers License. I showed up with my US Passport, Drivers License from previous state, Birth Certificate, Marriage License, Social Security Card, vehicle title and registration from old state. They refused me a license until I got my Social Security card reissued with my new last name, then I went back and they turned me away again and said I had to bring a utility bill mailed to me through the US mail (utilities are in my husbands name so I couldnt use them). Oddly enough they accepted my mortgage statement from my house in another state that had been addressed to my Maryland address. But the process can be difficult and lengthy and involve a lot of time off of work. Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy. Imagine doing all this and trying to understand all this information and red tape in something other than your first language, English. Many minorities are doing tasks that we take for granted, but in a language other than what they speak at home.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 23, 2012 9:50:36 GMT -5
Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy. Except many of these laws have been past recently, and people may have had to save up the money to pay for each piece to be able to get the state ID. The documentation required are documents the average person is expected to already possess - birth certificate, social security card, proof of address (depends on state). If they are lost, it is up to the individual to replace them at the time they are lost. A photo ID is required for so much regardless of income level that it is expected that the majority of the population already has one. Its hard to believe that obtaining one is such a hardship that a whole segment of society is going to be disenfranchised in the upcoming election. I still hold the opinion that the majority of those complaining have never voted and never intended to - they just want to bitch, moan and groan for attention.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 9:51:22 GMT -5
They had money to move, but not to get a $ 12 id card? Come on....really? The requirements are nearly the same for every state....and either you are who you say you are, or you are not Birth certificates, ss cards, etc These are not that hard to get.....a few phone calls to make sure you have the right documents, and then a quick 5 hr trip to the local dmv office to wait in line ID's are not that difficult to obtain....a little patience and a little work
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 23, 2012 9:53:45 GMT -5
Not to sound snarky but did you bother to research the requirements for your state before you tried to do this? The VA DMV has a full page of what you need on their website and in their publications. And when looking at it yesterday, they've even added a tool to help you figure out just what you needed for which type of ID and/or DL. Yes it is all a hassle but when people wait until the last minute and then complain they won't be able to get an ID before November because they are missing this, that or the other required document I have no sympathy. Imagine doing all this and trying to understand all this information and red tape in something other than your first language, English. Many minorities are doing tasks that we take for granted, but in a language other than what they speak at home. And they have resources for assistance available to them that the average citizen does not.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 9:54:12 GMT -5
They had money to move, but not to get a $ 12 id card? Come on....really? The requirements are nearly the same for every state....and either you are who you say you are, or you are not Birth certificates, ss cards, etc These are not that hard to get.....a few phone calls to make sure you have the right documents, and then a quick 5 hr trip to the local dmv office to wait in line ID's are not that difficult to obtain....a little patience and a little work Yes, minorities are notorious for having tons of weekday time to spend tracking down legal documentation and sitting in line at the dmv.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 23, 2012 9:56:13 GMT -5
My DMV is a model of efficiency. You go in, tell them what you need, and they give you a number. You are then sent to the person who best can handle your issue. I think I have spent maybe ten minutes waiting at the most.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 9:59:13 GMT -5
Imagine doing all this and trying to understand all this information and red tape in something other than your first language, English. Many minorities are doing tasks that we take for granted, but in a language other than what they speak at home. And they have resources for assistance available to them that the average citizen does not. The 'average citizen' doesn't need more resources, because it's all written in a language we understand. But while there are some resources to help others out in certain situations, there is not 24/7 assistance with every phone call, every internet search, every trip to the courthouse, DMV, etc. I have sympathy for people navigating any system in a language that is not the language of their heart. I've been in foreign countries, and even in places where I knew a little of the local language, things that the local people took for granted were overwhelming to me. I broke down and cried the first time I tried to navigate a bustling, crowded Italian train station! Easy-peasy to someone who was used to them, and who spoke Italian - but for me, it was an alien world.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 10:02:25 GMT -5
My DMV is a model of efficiency. You go in, tell them what you need, and they give you a number. You are then sent to the person who best can handle your issue. I think I have spent maybe ten minutes waiting at the most. Our DMV's have been closed/downsized due to budget cuts. I think there is one in the whole county now. When I moved to CO, I waited 4.5 hours to get my driver license switched. The guy next to me was on his 3rd day's attempt, because he kept having to leave after a few hours of waiting because of work obligations. Then I had to go to a completely separate office in another town to get my car registration changed over. Another couple of hours, after I had already visited the police station to have them verify my VIN. Fortunately, I could take time off work to accomplish all these tasks. Not everyone can.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 10:03:56 GMT -5
To qualify for Medicaid I have to yearly show copies of my bank statements, driver's license, birth certificates of everyone in my household, marriage license, death certificate for DH, and copies of my taxes. I also have to send them copies of all of the owner's certifications for vehicles I own.
For food stamps, you are required to show copies of your bank statements and income every month. Every dollar that comes into your household you have to report and prove where it came from. They use this every month to determine your eligibility for the following month. If you earn extra money, you lose an equal amount in food stamps....
Many people use WalMart as their bank and pay their bills by money order. They do this to avoid bank fees, because they don't qualify for an account due to credit, or because they are hiding income.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 10:09:11 GMT -5
Many people use WalMart as their bank and pay their bills by money order. They do this to avoid bank fees, because they don't qualify for an account due to credit, or because they are hiding income. The reasons why people are 'unbanked' are actually a bit less sinister. It's an interesting phenomenon to me, as I didn't realize so many people don't use any traditional banking facilities. www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2011/01/03/why-7-percent-of-americans-are-unbanked/The most commonly stated reason not to have a bank account, chosen by 37.1% of unbanked households, was that they did not have enough money to need an account. The other three common reasons were that unbanked households did not write enough checks to warrant having a bank account (18%); the minimum requirement balance was too high (12.7%); and that unbanked households did not need or want an account, or saw no value in having an account (12.4%).
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zdaddy
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Post by zdaddy on Aug 23, 2012 15:43:58 GMT -5
Personally, I think the bigger question is why politicians see this as such a burning issue from a public policy perspective. There's very little evidence of mass voting fraud where people are using fake names and addresses. The penalty is just too steep - hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and serious prison time. If a state is going to require an ID program, it should make at least a barebones ID card free for citizens who can't afford or don't need a driver's license.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 23, 2012 16:20:59 GMT -5
Personally, I think the bigger question is why politicians see this as such a burning issue from a public policy perspective. There's very little evidence of mass voting fraud where people are using fake names and addresses. I think the *bigger* question is why really only one party of politicians seems to find this such a burning issue. If this was really a burning issue that was causing rampant chaos, I'm thinking there'd be a much more even spread on who was fighting to stop it. Statistically-speaking. But that's just my $.02.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Aug 23, 2012 16:50:53 GMT -5
Personally, I think the bigger question is why politicians see this as such a burning issue from a public policy perspective. There's very little evidence of mass voting fraud where people are using fake names and addresses. I think the *bigger* question is why really only one party of politicians seems to find this such a burning issue. If this was really a burning issue that was causing rampant chaos, I'm thinking there'd be a much more even spread on who was fighting to stop it. Statistically-speaking. But that's just my $.02. Voter fraud is such a small issue. How many people are going to have time to vote many times, risking getting arrested , to add a few votes. Isn't everyone here intelligent enough to see this is a ploy to keep some segments of our society from their legal right to vote? Let's just go back in history and keep women, and blacks in the South from voting. I thought in 2012 we'd be smarter.
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