wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 11:55:28 GMT -5
I can't even get into the work complex without a govt issued id. I would think lacking an id would prevent you from doing things much more useful to your daily life than voting.
For those against requiring id, what better idea do you have to address the voter fraud issue? And it is an issue.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,728
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Aug 22, 2012 11:55:37 GMT -5
I have no idea how someone can function in today's modern world without an ID. You need one for just about everything. You need it to drive, to do anything with banking, to go to work, to get a job, to qualify for assistance, to get on an airplane, and I'm sure much more. No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot. ;D A job requires an SS card but that isn't a photo id either. I don't know for a fact but I think assistance only requires minimal things like a bill and an SS card to get it and then they give them a welfare id. Again it is not something that I think would get you a state photo id but enough that the local liquor store would sell you a bottle of wine if you didn't look old enough. I think people who aren't the urban poor really have no clue how unneeded an ID is. I'm not sure if I've ever need my DL for applying for heating or cooling assitance but I did need utility bills and pay stubs. Most people who do not drive, make little money do not have bank accounts. I use my DL much less than most posters here as I do not buy alcohol, rent cars, fly, or see the doctor regularly. I think I have shown it in some odd situations recently like getting rain checks at a grocery store.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 22, 2012 11:56:21 GMT -5
OH, and everyone has mentioned SS cards, which is a form of ID, if not a photo ID.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
|
Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 11:56:57 GMT -5
Lots of people do. Why do you think all those check cashing places exist in poor areas? Walmart also still sells money orders. People with a checking account or credit card aren't buying them.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,728
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Aug 22, 2012 11:57:39 GMT -5
"Maybe this shows me to be a white middle class snob, but how can you live without a bank account?"
Money orders and paying in cash.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 11:59:48 GMT -5
"No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot." Maybe this shows me to be a white middle class snob, but how can you live without a bank account? And don't you need some form of ID to rent an apartment? And I'm not familar at all about assistance, but don't you need to produce documents that show you need it? I don't know, income tax statements or pay stubs or something to prove you don't have money. And don't you need to show yoru bank account balance to prove you don't have a million dollars sitting in the bank? Otherwise everyone would qualify. I guess you use those check cashing places and use less than scrupulous landlords who don't require id? My life would be impossible without an id. However, more and more I think I am detached from the reality of some.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 22, 2012 12:00:11 GMT -5
"For those against requiring id, what better idea do you have to address the voter fraud issue? And it is an issue."
I'm all for voter ID laws, as long as there's assistance to give free ID's to the few who can't manage to scrape together $10 for an ID. Again, maybe it's the middle class snob in me, but I have a hard time imagining if voting is important to you, you couldn't manage to scrape together $10 or so. If I was that poor, I could probably get that panhandling in a day. But I realize how some could consider that a "poll tax" so if someone was truely destitute, I have no problem providing government dollars for free ID's to those who can't afford them. Certainly better use of tax dollars than other forms of assistance.
"Lots of people do. Why do you think all those check cashing places exist in poor areas?"
But don't those places charge a lot of money to cash checks? So you're losing money every time you do it. But it's free if you do direct desposit. Seems very foolish to use check cashing places.
"My life would be impossible without an id. However, more and more I think I am detached from the reality of some."
Same here.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 12:02:19 GMT -5
I think it is very dependent on your situation. I've needed my id many times for my job. I needed it to rent my apt, to change car ins companies and a hundred other things I'm forgetting.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on Aug 22, 2012 12:05:44 GMT -5
In VA it costs $10 for a state issued ID and it only has to be renewed every 5 years.
I also don't understand how certain segments of the population can function without at least a photo ID card. Not having a DL, I get.
The group the critics claim are being targeted is one that, I would guess, has a large percentage on some type of public assistance. Even if you don't have a bank account for direct deposit, you're still going to need an ID to cash your benefits check. Plus, I would think you'd need an ID just to apply.
I just don't see these laws a discriminatory. They may cause some inconvenience but really, anyone who is low income and cares enough to vote is going to do whatever they have to do to be able to vote (and probably already have an ID card for other uses).
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 12:07:05 GMT -5
"No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot." Maybe this shows me to be a white middle class snob, but how can you live without a bank account? And don't you need some form of ID to rent an apartment?
And I'm not familar at all about assistance, but don't you need to produce documents that show you need it? I don't know, income tax statements or pay stubs or something to prove you don't have money. And don't you need to show yoru bank account balance to prove you don't have a million dollars sitting in the bank? Otherwise everyone would qualify. I think it depends on where you are getting a job from or who you are renting an apartment from. I have worked at some pretty large places and other than an SS card I didn't have to show any ID to get the job. I think the Gov has different rules than most private places. If the job had a company car then a DL would have been a requirement but people without it just wouldn't apply. As far as apartments I would think the person who rents just one place or a slum lord wouldn't care much because they charge enough to cover their renters issues that come up. There was a whole banking thing I think the urban poor are unbanked in really high numbers. They just cash their checks where ever they can and pay everything in cash or money orders. I used to work for a place where most of the employees didnt have any bank accounts so we would have them sign their checks and give them back to us and we would cash them for them. I guess we didnt' have to do it but we felt bad at the amount of money they were spending just to cash their checks.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on Aug 22, 2012 12:09:38 GMT -5
True, but it is also pretty much a guarantee of a yearly jury duty summons in this state. Many people don't get ID because they don't need it for anything and it just makes them have to go deal with jury duty each year. We had people yesterday in court who's one way mileage to the court was 100 miles for jury duty! If I lived in one of those remote areas, and didn't need to drive, I wouldn't have a license. Around here the pool for jury duty is pulled from the voter registration database. You don't want to risk being called for duty, don't register to vote. I guess we don't have enough trials around here though since I decided to start voting again in 2004 and have yet to be called for JD. Also, those that mention check cashing places and Walmart - you still have to have an ID to cash a check at these places. What are those in these groups using if they don't have ID's? Unless they are signing over their checks to a friend/relative with a bank account and letting them cash them for them maybe?
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 12:10:47 GMT -5
"For those against requiring id, what better idea do you have to address the voter fraud issue? And it is an issue." I'm all for voter ID laws, as long as there's assistance to give free ID's to the few who can't manage to scrape together $10 for an ID. Again, maybe it's the middle class snob in me, but I have a hard time imagining if voting is important to you, you couldn't manage to scrape together $10 or so. If I was that poor, I could probably get that panhandling in a day. But I realize how some could consider that a "poll tax" so if someone was truly destitute, I have no problem providing government dollars for free ID's to those who can't afford them. Certainly better use of tax dollars than other forms of assistance. "Lots of people do. Why do you think all those check cashing places exist in poor areas?" But don't those places charge a lot of money to cash checks? So you're losing money every time you do it. But it's free if you do direct desposit. Seems very foolish to use check cashing places. "My life would be impossible without an id. However, more and more I think I am detached from the reality of some." Same here. It is not the $10 I object to. It is the fact that the places that do the ID are normally far removed from where the poor actually live. So you are not asking them to scrape up $10. You are requiring them to give up a days pay and pay a taxi or something to drive them 1.5 hours from where they live since they don't have a car. That is unreasonable, to me, as a condition for voting.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,417
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2012 12:14:19 GMT -5
I had to show my ID last night to buy children's cough syrup.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,411
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Aug 22, 2012 12:17:47 GMT -5
The last time my DD went to the doctor, she had to show a photo ID. Most of the larger doctor's offices around here require that now, due to identity theft. They tell me the insurance companies want proof that the doctor is seeing the patient listed on the paperwork....
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 12:18:02 GMT -5
All areas are different but there are id places here where the poor are concentrated. Again if you have a problem with asking for id, then how do you suggest we address the fraud issue?
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on Aug 22, 2012 12:30:24 GMT -5
I did a quick search for where in VA I could get a photo ID. I seem to remember that some of the check cashing places offered that service too but I think it was mostly for cashing checks with them.
I found two things that caught my eye. 1) an article or blog posting on a site called redstate.com (or something like that) that pointed out that quite a few states required government issued photo ID's as part of the process to apply for/re-up for public assistance so that killed the argument that the poorest don't have them; 2) an article about how these laws would negatively impact the poor and elderly and gave what I consider extreme examples of transgenders, college students with out of state DL's and elderly who were delivered by midwives. Now the transgenders I can see the issue. Students can vote by absentee ballot in their home state.
Now the one about the elderly really bugged me especially since they were naming people who were born in VA but moved away. My mother was delivered by a mid-wife and she has a birth certificate. ALL births in VA have had to be reported to the Bureau of Vital Statistics ever since 1912 whether you were born at home or in a hospital. Now I'm sure quite a few weren't but if these examples have been contributing to society by working, paying taxes, etc. I'm sure they have some kind of documentation to be able to provie their identity to get that photo ID. It won't be easy but considering many of these laws have been rumored or active since earlier this year, that's plenty of time to do what needs to be done.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 7, 2024 22:05:50 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 12:32:31 GMT -5
OH, and everyone has mentioned SS cards, which is a form of ID, if not a photo ID. But it is not on the list of allowed IDs for voting. Also, in some states, some military IDs will not be valid, nor will student IDs etc. It is not that they need ID but that they need a specific ID, in a short period of time, that costs money they don't have, and the requirements for that ID have changed.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 7, 2024 22:05:50 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 12:34:40 GMT -5
All areas are different but there are id places here where the poor are concentrated. Again if you have a problem with asking for id, then how do you suggest we address the fraud issue? What fraud issue? There is no evidence of voter fraud, well .02% I think was the limit of the fraud. In Ca we don't require IDs, you have to go up, give name and address, they look it up. If you are at all incorrect, like I forget to say my apartment #, you then require ID.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 12:36:01 GMT -5
All areas are different but there are id places here where the poor are concentrated. Again if you have a problem with asking for id, then how do you suggest we address the fraud issue? What fraud issue? There is no evidence of voter fraud, well .02% I think was the limit of the fraud. In Ca we don't require IDs, you have to go up, give name and address, they look it up. If you are at all incorrect, like I forget to say my apartment #, you then require ID. Yeah there's never any voter fraud. That's why WV threw the former Lincoln County sheriff in jail for voter fraud.
|
|
michelyn8
Familiar Member
Joined: Jul 25, 2012 6:48:24 GMT -5
Posts: 926
|
Post by michelyn8 on Aug 22, 2012 12:42:26 GMT -5
OH, and everyone has mentioned SS cards, which is a form of ID, if not a photo ID. But it is not on the list of allowed IDs for voting. Also, in some states, some military IDs will not be valid, nor will student IDs etc. It is not that they need ID but that they need a specific ID, in a short period of time, that costs money they don't have, and the requirements for that ID have changed. Requirements for a government issued photo ID have been fairly consistent since 9/11. I have a hard time believing these states with the laws suddenly decided you needed to prove legal presence just last week. As I stated before, these laws are at least 3-6 months old in most places and that is plenty of time for anyone to arrange the money and time to go get one. Maybe we should start asking all of the whiners to prove they were registered and actually voted in 2008 or any other federal, state or local election since.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 7, 2024 22:05:50 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 12:44:25 GMT -5
"No you really don't. I also think some of the things you mentioned go together. Most people who live in urban environments and don't have a DL pretty much don't have a bank account either. I also tend to doubt that much of the nations poor flies or rents cars a lot." Maybe this shows me to be a white middle class snob, but how can you live without a bank account? And don't you need some form of ID to rent an apartment?
And I'm not familar at all about assistance, but don't you need to produce documents that show you need it? I don't know, income tax statements or pay stubs or something to prove you don't have money. And don't you need to show yoru bank account balance to prove you don't have a million dollars sitting in the bank? Otherwise everyone would qualify. I think it depends on where you are getting a job from or who you are renting an apartment from. I have worked at some pretty large places and other than an SS card I didn't have to show any ID to get the job. I think the Gov has different rules than most private places. If the job had a company car then a DL would have been a requirement but people without it just wouldn't apply. As far as apartments I would think the person who rents just one place or a slum lord wouldn't care much because they charge enough to cover their renters issues that come up. There was a whole banking thing I think the urban poor are unbanked in really high numbers. They just cash their checks where ever they can and pay everything in cash or money orders. I used to work for a place where most of the employees didnt have any bank accounts so we would have them sign their checks and give them back to us and we would cash them for them. I guess we didnt' have to do it but we felt bad at the amount of money they were spending just to cash their checks. Working and working legally are two different things Following is the I9 documentation requirements A variety of documents are acceptable for I-9 purposes. The employee must supply either: One document that establishes both identity and employment eligibility (on List A on the I-9) OR One document that establishes identity (on List B), together with another document that establishes employment eligibility (on List C) All documentation must be unexpired as of April 3, 2009[2] Documents that may be used under "List A" of the I-9 form to establish both identity and employment eligibility include: Unexpired U.S. Passport U.S. Passport Card An unexpired foreign passport with an I-551 stamp, or with Form I-94 attached which indicates an unexpired employment authorization A Permanent Resident Card (often called a "green card") or Alien Registration Receipt Card with photograph An Unexpired Temporary Resident Card An Unexpired Employment Authorization Card An Unexpired Employment Authorization Document issued by the Dept. of Homeland Security that includes a photograph (Form I-766) Documents that may be used under "List B" of the I-9 to establish identity include: Driver's license or I.D. card issued by a U.S. state or outlying possession of the U.S., provided it contains a photograph or identifying information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color and address. Federal or state I.D. card provided it contains a photograph or identifying information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color and address. School I.D. with photograph U.S. Armed Services identification card or draft record Voter Registration Card U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner Card Native American tribal document Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority For individuals under the age of 18 only, the following documents may be used to establish identity: School record or report card Clinic, doctor or hospital record Day-care or nursery school record
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,728
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Aug 22, 2012 13:00:11 GMT -5
Just because you believe that, does not make it true. There is ample evidence that people are being stopped from voting based on the cost and time needed, because of these laws. Oh cry me a river I guarantee everyone has to show an ID get get a prescription. Argue that I don't. I might have when I initially signed up into that Pharmacy's system, but they know who I am and in general all I do is sign the signature pad when I pick up any prescriptions now.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Aug 22, 2012 13:05:02 GMT -5
Oh cry me a river I guarantee everyone has to show an ID get get a prescription. Argue that I don't. I might have when I initially signed up into that Pharmacy's system, but they know who I am and in general all I do is sign the signature pad when I pick up any prescriptions now. I picked up my son's ADHD meds the other day and they didn't even ask to see my insurance card let alone my ID and that is a controlled substance. They do know me since I have gotten it filled there before though.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 13:08:36 GMT -5
I don't. I might have when I initially signed up into that Pharmacy's system, but they know who I am and in general all I do is sign the signature pad when I pick up any prescriptions now. I picked up my son's ADHD meds the other day and they didn't even ask to see my insurance card let alone my ID and that is a controlled substance. They do know me since I have gotten it filled there before though. I think that is up to the pharmacy and state you are in. If they know you, then you may not need id. They are supposed to know patients or ask for id. Some probably have the policy of asking for id to cover their ass and some states may have laws dictating they get id every time. We've suggested the id thing on the Part D side before. And we get this song and dance about unfairly preventing benes from getting their Oxycodone.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
|
Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:12:04 GMT -5
Just because you believe that, does not make it true. There is ample evidence that people are being stopped from voting based on the cost and time needed, because of these laws. Oh cry me a river I guarantee everyone has to show an ID get get a prescription. Argue that I don't.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 13:16:21 GMT -5
Which is as I said state dependent. NY requires it for controlled substances if the patient is unknown to the pharmacist which would explain Swamp not needing one. NJ does not have such a law.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,417
Member is Online
|
Post by thyme4change on Aug 22, 2012 13:19:12 GMT -5
I didn't have to show ID to get my prescription, although, as I said, I had to show it to get OTC cough medicine for my kid. So, there are only some active ingredients that we have ID regulations on.
That said - even if it was true that everyone had to show an ID to get prescriptions, I suspect many of the people that don't have IDs might not have health insurance, and probably don't get prescribed medication. I would venture to say that a huge percentage of prescription medication don't actually keep anyone from dying. I think the top prescribed medications include allergy medications, antibiotics (for things that are not life threatening and will eventually clear up on their own), pain killers and birth control.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,335
|
Post by swamp on Aug 22, 2012 13:22:36 GMT -5
And I'm sure they we ID-ed at sometime when they first went to the Pharmacy. I have never been ID'd at the pharmacy.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 7, 2024 22:05:50 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 13:22:50 GMT -5
Oh cry me a river I guarantee everyone has to show an ID get get a prescription. Argue that I don't. I might have when I initially signed up into that Pharmacy's system, but they know who I am and in general all I do is sign the signature pad when I pick up any prescriptions now. Nor have I ever, in multiple states ever shown an ID.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,719
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Aug 22, 2012 13:23:39 GMT -5
Only 22 of the states require id and that is just for controlled substances. If you are in the other states or not getting a controlled substance, you do not need an id at the pharmacy.
|
|