Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:04:29 GMT -5
And how do you handle absentee voters? Make them send in a copy of their ID ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:11:18 GMT -5
I say DL because in the state of CA, you have to have either a DL or a State ID that comes from DMV.... You don't just go to the county offices and ask for a photo ID. You get one at the DMV through the SAME PROCESS it takes to get a DL and the cost is the SAME.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:13:34 GMT -5
And how do you handle absentee voters? Make them send in a copy of their ID ? You know as well as I do, when you register to vote you show ID and the ballot gets sent to the address you register with. If you move between then, then you start the process all over. It really isnt as complicated and you folks are making it out to be. I registered to vote at a craft fair booth. I did not show ID. Ever. I vote absentee via checking the box on the information sent to my home and asking to permanently vote via mail. Fraud.... My DH died in March of 2011. I have received THREE ballots for him in this time. I return each of them with DECEASED written in large print, in color, on the ballot. He still gets one each election....
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 10:14:47 GMT -5
And how do you handle absentee voters? Make them send in a copy of their ID ? You know as well as I do, when you register to vote you show ID and the ballot gets sent to the address you register with. If you move between then, then you start the process all over. So why is absentee voting most often the culprit where actual (as opposed to fictional) voter fraud is occuring?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:18:56 GMT -5
Except your fix actually wouldn't have fixed the situation she described...
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 10:19:32 GMT -5
I registered to vote at a craft fair booth. I did not show ID. Ever. I vote absentee via checking the box on the information sent to my home and asking to permanently vote via mail. Fraud.... My DH died in March of 2011. I have received THREE ballots for him in this time. I return each of them with DECEASED written in large print, in color, on the ballot. He still gets one each election.... See now you have just shown where the problem is, yet everyone wants to find fault with the fix. I rest my case I believe that what she demonstrated is that a major 'fix' is that dead voters be appropriately removed from the rolls, rather than focusing on ID laws.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:21:40 GMT -5
About 10 convictions of someone actually voting illegally in the last decade??? ... What's to fix??? ... I'd rather look at issues like potential machine tampering/fraud and make sure we are systemically safe, rather than worry about a microscopic issue as the one you are focused on actually is...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 10:38:28 GMT -5
Fix what ?? You talk like there are all these people voting illegally, when it is just NOT the problem you make it out to be...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 27, 2012 10:58:22 GMT -5
No one on the public dole doesn't have ID. Period. You can't even be seen with your Medicaid card without ID. Some stores make you prove you are you when you use your food stamp card. SAMs club does. If you don't have ID, you are somehow scamming the system and pretending to be someone else.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 11:00:47 GMT -5
Fix what ?? You talk like there are all these people voting illegally, when it is just NOT the problem you make it out to be... I want to know how you plan on proving citizenship and who you are so you can vote Legally And I don't see it as a problem to prove that. The problem is not proving. No, the problem is that it is not a problem. The fix is to focus on issues with voting that actually occur in a large-scale way. For example, lack of participation and obstacles for legitimate voting: Read more: www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830#ixzz24lLzJP00But beyond waging battles at the state and federal level, voting-rights advocates must figure out how to reframe the broader debate. The real problem in American elections is not the myth of voter fraud, but how few people actually participate. Even in 2008, which saw the highest voter turnout in four decades, fewer than two-thirds of eligible voters went to the polls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 11:32:12 GMT -5
You can lead a horse to water, but cant make him drink
Citizens have a right to vote....but no requirement
Some people think their vote never counts
But....if you want to participate....we need you to prove you are who you say you are
ID's are a no brainer....
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 11:49:11 GMT -5
You can lead a horse to water, but cant make him drink Citizens have a right to vote....but no requirement Some people think their vote never counts So why not invest the time in removing physical and psychological obstacles to voting for the millions of legitimate voters, rather than worry about the .0007 that might or might not be legitimate? But....if you want to participate....we need you to prove you are who you say you are ID's are a no brainer.... And the point in question is that many people don't see how this is a NEED, nor how proposed ID laws will actually solve the limited problem of actual voter fraud without creating more obstacles to many more eligible voters than it would protect.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 11:56:52 GMT -5
And the point in question is that many people don't see how this is a NEED, nor how proposed ID laws will actually solve the limited problem of actual voter fraud without creating more obstacles to many more eligible voters than it would protect. So how do we solve it. Its no different than showing proof of insurance if you drive. They currently address cases of voter fraud with legal cases. They prosecute individual cases, rather than create a systemic burden to deal with isolated cases.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 12:07:43 GMT -5
I'm not saying it. Studies and reports are saying it. The NYT said it 5 years ago: www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=1Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.
Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year. Most of those charged have been Democrats, voting records show. Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show. So, to weed out 86 possible cases of ineligible voting in 5 years, much of which is done without bad intent, creating a systemic burden for millions of people, adding costs and burdening polling officials with new procedures seems like a tremendous amount of overkill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2012 13:07:24 GMT -5
You need to also remember that those are ANY voter related fraud... most of them are registration issues, the cases of actually fraudulently VOTING, are much, much fewer still...
ie. We already have mechanisms in place that stop fraud at the point of registration... and they work... very few people ( i think its 10 in the last decade...) have actually been found to have VOTED illegally....
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 13:21:04 GMT -5
There is also collateral damage to be considered. Within many minority communities, there is already a feeling of disenfranchisement and distrust of authorities and systems, as well as a strong grapevine. An unwarranted effort to stamp out 'voter fraud' that might net a handful of true cases runs the very real risk of further discouraging thousands or millions of very legitimate voters. Considering that elections in the US have had a low turnout rate already, this further exacerbates the problem. One story like this: In Pakistan, Usman Ali is trying to rebuild his life after being deported from Florida, his legal home of more than a decade, for improperly filling out a voter-registration card while renewing his driver’s license. www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=1can drive many legal voters of ethnic groups away from exercising their legal right to vote. I mean, would you take the risk?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Aug 27, 2012 18:33:16 GMT -5
I'm not sure how many different ways there are to say that voter fraud a very limited occurance that is currently being addressed by legal action on an individual basis, and that currently doesn't warrant an all-out systemic change. I'm sorry that you have trouble understanding that, but I think I'm done saying it.
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