grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 5, 2019 15:21:43 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 5, 2019 16:02:02 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
Yep.Only crazed women can make the accepted decision.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 5, 2019 16:14:54 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
I tend to agree with djAdvocate and don't see it as an instruction not to worry our "pretty little heads" over this. Then again I come from a country where the 3-kiss greeting is almost as common as the handshake, or just nodding your head for that matter.
Of course your comment was followed by Value Buy who, as so often before , had nothing but a put-down to add to the discussion
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 5, 2019 17:18:07 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
Ditto. It's not like anyone should have agency over their own bodies. Especially when someone with a lot more power wants to reach out and touch someone.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 17:26:21 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
actually, I didn't do that: YOU did.
you claimed that NO uninvited touch is okay.
so, you are making the absolutist argument, not me, and not deminmaine. we are actually suggesting that SOME uninvited touch (not ALL) is okay.
I asked you a question earlier. you didn't answer:
are you familiar with the idea of "Calling In" (versus "Calling Out")?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 17:28:49 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
Yep.Only crazed women can make the accepted decision. I work for a sexual assault prevention and education firm, VB.
if you think for a second that I think this way, you're the crazy one.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 17:31:36 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
Ditto. It's not like anyone should have agency over their own bodies. Especially when someone with a lot more power wants to reach out and touch someone. never claimed that. don't believe that. and this is precisely what is wrong with this issue. any questioning is seen as "siding with abusers".
let me ask you something. I go to a bar. a woman that finds me attractive comes up to me and over the course of a conversation she might touch me a few times to indicate interest. is that a violation of my personal sovereignty, in your opinion? if not, why not?
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 5, 2019 17:53:46 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad the men have once again decided to be the arbiters of what type of touch and contact women should be okay receiving. Wouldn't want to worry their pretty little heads with making those decisions for themselves and having men actually respect them.
Such progress.
actually, I didn't do that: YOU did.
you claimed that NO uninvited touch is okay.
so, you are actually making the absolutist argument, not me.
I asked you a question earlier. you didn't answer:
are you familiar with the idea of "Calling In" (versus "Calling Out")?
I have, and frankly, I'm past the point of coaxing people gently along to a point that should have been obvious long ago. Ask first. I think we are all aware that the touch in question is not of the casual handshake, or quick pat on the arm variety, but that's okay, we can pretend it is. Yes, I do think if you aren't aware of the other person's level of comfort with contact, you ask first. I work in an environment of mixed religious faith where contact between non-married/non-familial opposite sex individuals is not really okay. While I am used to offering a hand to shake, I tend to not do that anymore and defer to them. And no, I don't consider the OFFER of a handshake a violation of personal space, as I don't just grab the person and start shaking, but give them the option to either accept or decline.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 5, 2019 18:02:32 GMT -5
Ditto. It's not like anyone should have agency over their own bodies. Especially when someone with a lot more power wants to reach out and touch someone. never claimed that. don't believe that. and this is precisely what is wrong with this issue. any questioning is seen as "siding with abusers".
let me ask you something. I go to a bar. a woman that finds me attractive comes up to me and over the course of a conversation she might touch me a few times to indicate interest. is that a violation of my personal sovereignty, in your opinion? if not, why not?
Let's expand for increased comparability. You're just a few years out of college and starting your career at a large firm with very few opportunities for advancement and no other company is similar business. You were thrilled that the COO put you forward to one of the few big promotions available and now she pulls this.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 18:04:09 GMT -5
actually, I didn't do that: YOU did.
you claimed that NO uninvited touch is okay.
so, you are actually making the absolutist argument, not me.
I asked you a question earlier. you didn't answer:
are you familiar with the idea of "Calling In" (versus "Calling Out")?
I have, and frankly, I'm past the point of coaxing people gently along to a point that should have been obvious long ago. Ask first. I think we are all aware that the touch in question is not of the casual handshake, or quick pat on the arm variety, but that's okay, we can pretend it is. Yes, I do think if you aren't aware of the other person's level of comfort with contact, you ask first. I work in an environment of mixed religious faith where contact between non-married/non-familial opposite sex individuals is not really okay. While I am used to offering a hand to shake, I tend to not do that anymore and defer to them. And no, I don't consider the OFFER of a handshake a violation of personal space, as I don't just grab the person and start shaking, but give them the option to either accept or decline. do you do so verbally? because I generally don't. I generally extend my hand. if they don't want to shake, they won't extend theirs.
I fervently disagree with your second (bold) paragraph. that is PRECISELY what I am talking about. I am talking about casual social contact. I am not talking about pervy old men petting teens, or grabbing lady parts.
i already stated that i generally agree with you. i already stated that i am not defending Joe. if you can't accept these things at face value, i feel that the debate is probably already over. and I can't blame you for thinking that I don't get it. most men don't.
i don't consider it male privilege to touch any woman they feel like touching. i respect all people, regardless of gender, age, or race. i believe in the intrinsic rights of all people to their own personal sovereignty. but i am leery of absolutes like the one you (appear to be) making.
i also understand that the rules are changing. better than most people. it is your choice whether you believe that or not.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 18:06:45 GMT -5
never claimed that. don't believe that. and this is precisely what is wrong with this issue. any questioning is seen as "siding with abusers".
let me ask you something. I go to a bar. a woman that finds me attractive comes up to me and over the course of a conversation she might touch me a few times to indicate interest. is that a violation of my personal sovereignty, in your opinion? if not, why not?
Let's expand for increased comparability. You're just a few years out of college and starting your career at a large firm with very few opportunities for advancement and no other company is similar business. You were thrilled that the COO put you forward to one of the few big promotions available and now she pulls this. your situation introduces a power dynamic that makes it not only inappropriate, but possibly illegal.
now, i would appreciate a straight answer to my question, as i answered yours directly & with the serial respect i have always shown you, Rukh.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 18:28:25 GMT -5
actually, I didn't do that: YOU did.
you claimed that NO uninvited touch is okay.
so, you are actually making the absolutist argument, not me.
I asked you a question earlier. you didn't answer:
are you familiar with the idea of "Calling In" (versus "Calling Out")?
I have, and frankly, I'm past the point of coaxing people gently along to a point that should have been obvious long ago. Ask first. ok. so, here is the follow up question.
your reply indicates to me that you are more in the "Call Out" camp. my personal feeling is that this should be reserved for a person who exhibits a PATTERN of behavior that is dangerous to women in general. when someone is called out, they are basically treated as a serial sex offender. do you think that is OK even in cases where the person made a (single) mistake, acknowledges it, and does not repeat it? or are you of the opinion that such a person is beyond redemption, and should simply by ostracized and eliminated from the gene pool?
note: if you think this is some sort of a trap, it isn't. I just want to know where you stand.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 5, 2019 18:38:40 GMT -5
Even Biden's "victims" said the touching was completely non-sexual. I'm having a tough time being outraged about it, coming from a Russian/French culture, where people are always kissing and hugging. AMEN!!! I had to re-adjust once in America because in my culture (Haitian / French base)... we hug and kiss on the cheeks when we meet people. I remember my first job in the states at 18 when I showed up my first day and I went to kiss the 2 ladies on the cheeks; yep that set me straight. They were nice about it but a mistake that will never be repeated... 16 years ago and I still remember. I'm really sorry about that. If you'd offered to kiss me on the cheek I'd have happily accepted and kissed you back. I think it's a great pretty cool!
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 5, 2019 18:40:04 GMT -5
I have, and frankly, I'm past the point of coaxing people gently along to a point that should have been obvious long ago. Ask first. I think we are all aware that the touch in question is not of the casual handshake, or quick pat on the arm variety, but that's okay, we can pretend it is. Yes, I do think if you aren't aware of the other person's level of comfort with contact, you ask first. I work in an environment of mixed religious faith where contact between non-married/non-familial opposite sex individuals is not really okay. While I am used to offering a hand to shake, I tend to not do that anymore and defer to them. And no, I don't consider the OFFER of a handshake a violation of personal space, as I don't just grab the person and start shaking, but give them the option to either accept or decline. do you do so verbally? because I generally don't. I generally extend my hand. if they don't want to shake, they won't extend theirs.
I fervently disagree with your second (bold) paragraph. that is PRECISELY what I am talking about. I am talking about casual social contact. I am not talking about pervy old men petting teens, or grabbing lady parts.
i already stated that i generally agree with you. i already stated that i am not defending Joe. if you can't accept these things at face value, i feel that the debate is probably already over. and I can't blame you for thinking that I don't get it. most men don't.
i don't consider it male privilege to touch any woman they feel like touching. i respect all people, regardless of gender, age, or race. i believe in the intrinsic rights of all people to their own personal sovereignty. but i am leery of absolutes like the one you (appear to be) making.
i also understand that the rules are changing. better than most people. it is your choice whether you believe that or not.
Verbally? No. I typically extend, and then wait. With men that I know are Muslim, I don't even extend, but wait for them to offer. Not all avoid handshakes with women not in their family, but most do. I respect that, and the ball is in their court. Maybe you're not defending Joe, but you did agree with Deminmaine when he posted about women needing to "chill" and learn when to pick their battles or they in essence won't be taken seriously in matters like this. Since the thread is about Joe Biden, and the women that have come forward, I don't think it is a huge leap in logic to think that his comment was directed toward them. I don't think that these women need to chill, or that they shouldn't have come forward. Even before all this broke, in watching Joe's interactions with women, I have found his behavior off-putting. He acted in a way that made them uncomfortable, and they felt they needed to say that. I don't feel his actions in these cases fall under the umbrella of "casual social contact" and neither did these women. If you looked at the same behavior through the lens of employer and employee would these women still need to "chill" or would they have the basis of an HR complaint? Because if my boss did ANY of these things, I know where I would be headed right after. If the behavior wouldn't be acceptable in the work place, why is it okay here? Yes, the rules are changing, but the fact is that if women had been treated as people with equal agency, they never would have had to in the first place. You never hear people telling white men they need to "learn to pick their battles" or "just be patient, people are learning" when they voice complaints. It's always historically marginalized groups that are told to be patient, wait their turn, don't make a fuss. These women are grown adults. They don't need anyone telling them when to sit, and when to speak. I'm sure they were already well aware of how this would play out in the press, and sadly, they were mostly right. More than Biden's initial behavior, his failure to take responsibility, and offer a simply apology "I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable. I'll be more aware in the future" is what is troubling to me. His entire statement was focused on HIM and why his behavior was excusable and explainable in the context. That the problem is with changing societal norms, and not his actions. I for one find his actions problematic on their own merit, in just about any context or time. For what it's worth, I do get the sense that you respect women. I do also think that it is hard for men, even well meaning allies, to truly get it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 18:53:13 GMT -5
do you do so verbally? because I generally don't. I generally extend my hand. if they don't want to shake, they won't extend theirs.
I fervently disagree with your second (bold) paragraph. that is PRECISELY what I am talking about. I am talking about casual social contact. I am not talking about pervy old men petting teens, or grabbing lady parts.
i already stated that i generally agree with you. i already stated that i am not defending Joe. if you can't accept these things at face value, i feel that the debate is probably already over. and I can't blame you for thinking that I don't get it. most men don't.
i don't consider it male privilege to touch any woman they feel like touching. i respect all people, regardless of gender, age, or race. i believe in the intrinsic rights of all people to their own personal sovereignty. but i am leery of absolutes like the one you (appear to be) making.
i also understand that the rules are changing. better than most people. it is your choice whether you believe that or not.
Verbally? No. I typically extend, and then wait. With men that I know are Muslim, I don't even extend, but wait for them to offer. Not all avoid handshakes with women not in their family, but most do. I respect that, and the ball is in their court. Maybe you're not defending Joe, but you did agree with Deminmaine when he posted about women needing to "chill" and learn when to pick their battles or they in essence won't be taken seriously in matters like this. Since the thread is about Joe Biden, and the women that have come forward, I don't think it is a huge leap in logic to think that his comment was directed toward them. well, then let me be clear: i cringe when i see some of the images of Joe doing the thing he does. i think he is WRONG to do them at MANY different levels. first of all, the young girls can't consent. so, he should just stay away. period. second, there is the power dynamic that is part of the equation. Joe is a prominent and important person. women who refuse his "affections" are put in a very awkward position asserting that refusal. so, i mean it when i say i am not going to defend him, though he may choose to defend himself, which i also won't object to.
my reply to dem is simply that i don't wish to live in a society where EVERY touch is sexualized and out of bounds. if that wasn't clear, i hope it is, now.
i think the reason that this statement is difficult to make is that it is often heard as "every touch is OK". that is not what i am saying AT ALL. there are rules and limits, and transgressors should be either called in or out, depending on circumstances.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 18:55:16 GMT -5
If you looked at the same behavior through the lens of employer and employee would these women still need to "chill" or would they have the basis of an HR complaint? Because if my boss did ANY of these things, I know where I would be headed right after. If the behavior wouldn't be acceptable in the work place, why is it okay here? see post 111 & 115.
PS- thanks for the very thorough and eloquent response. as a person trying to do the right thing, i want to hear what you think.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 5, 2019 19:42:10 GMT -5
Let me start by saying I haven't read most of the comments here.
Should Biden be crucified for his actions based on what we currently know? No. Are there some loud people taking it to the extreme on either side? Undoubtedly. Is it hard to figure out a consensus of what to take and think of this with everyone coming at it from different places and biases? Seems that way.
His actions as far as we know have not risen to the point of shoving him off a cliff - especially given his reaction to everything. We have to allow people to have good reactions when called out for this. Doing so will call attention to the shit responses. But from some of the clips I've seen it's pretty obvious that these girls and women were uncomfortable with his touch. And it shouldn't be pushed off as a nothing just because it didn't hit the terribly bad no good bar. Especially because it's happened so many times.
The reaction shouldn't be to never touch anyone ever without verbal consent. But I think a good rule of thumb is you shouldn't put your hands on someone you don't know well from the behind - it's much harder to read someone's reaction that way. And it seems to be what's happening in a lot of the clips I saw.
I also think it would be great to have a discussion on body language. From my experience it seems guys are just way more obtuse to body language than women. The question is are they just ignoring it or are they just not aware of it? If it's the former we need to teach them not to ignore it and if it's the latter we need to figure out why they're not getting the message and then teach them how to read it. And the reason I say why is because I don't remember ever being specifically taught it, but I can't tell you how many times noticing a friend's body language has caused me to act to change something. I've even done it for strangers on occasion too. Honestly it's likely wrapped up in the toxic masculinity that some people refuse to see.
And no, none of this means women don't do this. It's just been way rarer where I've seen a woman keep pushing even though the guy is clearly uncomfortable.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 5, 2019 19:49:44 GMT -5
If you looked at the same behavior through the lens of employer and employee would these women still need to "chill" or would they have the basis of an HR complaint? Because if my boss did ANY of these things, I know where I would be headed right after. If the behavior wouldn't be acceptable in the work place, why is it okay here? see post 111 & 115.
PS- thanks for the very thorough and eloquent response. as a person trying to do the right thing, i want to hear what you think.
You're welcome. Though my first reply may not convey it, I do actually welcome dialogue on subjects. I was responding more to my interpretation of deminmaine's comments, and the dismissiveness I read into them. I do think this is a complex issue with a lot of nuance. However, I also feel strongly that these women were NOT overreacting in expressing their discomfort. If I were in their shoes, and a man I barely knew was putting his hands on my in anything other than a casual handshake; it would make me uncomfortable. I don't think treating these women's claims as though they are overreacting is helpful. While his behavior may not be anywhere near the level of sexual assault, it is troubling, and it did make them uncomfortable. The only way to understand that, is to talk about it. And while I know Biden has played lip service to "doing better" I didn't hear any real understanding of WHY his behavior was troubling.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 5, 2019 19:50:56 GMT -5
Let's expand for increased comparability. You're just a few years out of college and starting your career at a large firm with very few opportunities for advancement and no other company is similar business. You were thrilled that the COO put you forward to one of the few big promotions available and now she pulls this. your situation introduces a power dynamic that makes it not only inappropriate, but possibly illegal.
now, i would appreciate a straight answer to my question, as i answered yours directly & with the serial respect i have always shown you, Rukh.
Just how much power do you think a beginner/lower office holder has in politics has? How easy is it for them to recoil and say 'please don't touch me!' to a VEEP/ former VEEP at their campaign rally? He even does this in front of people/on stage. Will it affect his endorsement? Does the outcome of the election hinge on a small percent of voters that might be swayed if he 100% for you vs lukewarm? Watch the compilation of the young girls and watch the faces of the parents. you can see the parents faces change when biden is on their kid and they feel powerless to say anything in front of the cameras - because it really could be career suicide.
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 22:09:17 GMT -5
your situation introduces a power dynamic that makes it not only inappropriate, but possibly illegal.
now, i would appreciate a straight answer to my question, as i answered yours directly & with the serial respect i have always shown you, Rukh.
Just how much power do you think a beginner/lower office holder has in politics has? my question was not about Joe. it was about your Average Joe. just some guy in a bar, like ME (I said that, actually).
can you please make this thread about someone other than Joe Biden for a sec? because I am NOT defending him.
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 22:13:31 GMT -5
see post 111 & 115.
PS- thanks for the very thorough and eloquent response. as a person trying to do the right thing, i want to hear what you think.
You're welcome. Though my first reply may not convey it, I do actually welcome dialogue on subjects. I was responding more to my interpretation of deminmaine's comments, and the dismissiveness I read into them. I do think this is a complex issue with a lot of nuance. However, I also feel strongly that these women were NOT overreacting in expressing their discomfort. If I were in their shoes, and a man I barely knew was putting his hands on my in anything other than a casual handshake; it would make me uncomfortable. I don't think treating these women's claims as though they are overreacting is helpful. While his behavior may not be anywhere near the level of sexual assault, it is troubling, and it did make them uncomfortable. The only way to understand that, is to talk about it. And while I know Biden has played lip service to "doing better" I didn't hear any real understanding of WHY his behavior was troubling. I am with you, grumpy. again, I am sorry to have brought this subject up ON THIS THREAD. because I don't think Joe's actions are terribly defensible. I am asking about the general case, and i think you have addressed it. sorta.
i am still curious as to whether you think ANY social touching, even that which is considered "inappropriate" by the touched is REDEEMABLE. do you think that "nice guys" sometimes do the wrong thing? do you think they can learn/understand that? do you think they are worth "calling in", or are they human garbage that should be kicked to the curb and castrated publicly?
i am exaggerating for effect- but it sometimes FEELS as if it is heading that way to me.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 6, 2019 6:47:10 GMT -5
Just how much power do you think a beginner/lower office holder has in politics has? my question was not about Joe. it was about your Average Joe. just some guy in a bar, like ME (I said that, actually).
can you please make this thread about someone other than Joe Biden for a sec? because I am NOT defending him.
Then I don't understand the relevance here. You take your hand away. Depending on the situation you might be startled and jerk it away. Stand up and leave, maybe with an epithet on the way out.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 6, 2019 8:40:45 GMT -5
I think this might start to test the "Me Too" movement. And I think those who care about the credibility of the movement should be taking note. There is a point at which things get taken too far. Not every move, touch, word or smile is meant as a sexual crime, and some latitude needs to be taken for humanity. Sometimes we all need to take a chill pill, and so do some of the more extreme voices in this movement. After all, men and women DO like one another, fundamentally. Even the boys at the club clap one another on the back. It is not all criminal. Yes.
This reminds me of the stink back in the 70's when some feminists insisted men shouldn't be holding doors open for women because that assumed men had to 'take care' of the ladies.
No, it's just polite. I hold the door for elderly people and infirm people and walk through it and hold it open for whoever is coming behind me, so the door doesn't slap them in the face. It's instinct, at this point, not something I'm consciously deciding to do.
We can get ourselves in trouble if we start assigning motives to every small action.
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 6, 2019 10:31:22 GMT -5
Tossing the issue back into the thread author's lap. Herman Cain Opens a New #MeToo Minefield for RepublicansWASHINGTON — Payments to women who complained of sexual harassment. Accusations of groping. Allegations of a 13-year extramarital affair. As President Trump moves ahead with his plan to nominate Herman Cain, a 2012 Republican presidential candidate, for a seat on the Federal Reserve’s board of governors, Republican lawmakers are being forced to confront a fresh round of uncomfortable allegations of sexual misconduct against women as the 2020 campaign begins. A day after Mr. Trump made the choice of Mr. Cain official, Senate Republicans expressed quiet anxiety over the prospect of another #MeToo minefield even as the White House exalted the decision. “President Trump’s statement that Herman Cain is ‘a truly outstanding individual’ is a message that the president of the United States is willing to ignore the allegations of a number of women who alleged that Herman Cain either sexually harassed them or had an affair with them,” said Gloria Allred, a lawyer who represented two of Mr. Cain’s accusers. “This message is an insult to women and should be condemned by the Republican Party and all those who care about respect and dignity for women.” Complete article here: Herman Cain Opens a New #MeToo Minefield for Republicans
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 6, 2019 12:01:50 GMT -5
my question was not about Joe. it was about your Average Joe. just some guy in a bar, like ME (I said that, actually).
can you please make this thread about someone other than Joe Biden for a sec? because I am NOT defending him.
Then I don't understand the relevance here. You take your hand away. Depending on the situation you might be startled and jerk it away. Stand up and leave, maybe with an epithet on the way out. that is a partial answer. i asked if YOU considered the action a violation of my personal sovereignty. i didn't ask you what i should do.
but thanks for the partial answer. what i am really asking is this: "is ANY unsolicited social touching OK, in your opinion?"
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 6, 2019 12:21:38 GMT -5
Yep.Only crazed women can make the accepted decision. I work for a sexual assault prevention and education firm, VB.
if you think for a second that I think this way, you're the crazy one.
No, I did not think you were included. Until these women accusers stop using cosmetics, nail polish, hair care products, and not shave their armpits trying to beautify their features and attracting the opposite sex, they are wrong in their attempt to accuse Joe, and then say they wouild still vote for him. They have to get over their insecurities of life. I worked under women bosses and I supervised many women working for me. I knew the proper boundaries for both sexes, and especially myself. I can honestly say we had almost as many women who had to be conseled on handsy type issues, or outright sexual overtures as the men.,
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 6, 2019 12:23:55 GMT -5
For everyone here that ridiculed and put down VP Pence for saying he would not get in a position of being alone with a member of the opposite sex, you might want to admit it may not be as obnoxious as you claimed at the time. He seems he was ahead of the democratic sex wave that we are now witnessing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 6, 2019 12:26:56 GMT -5
For everyone here that ridiculed and put down VP Pence for saying he would not get in a position of being alone with a member of the opposite sex, you might want to admit it may not be as obnoxious as you claimed at the time. He seems he was ahead of the democratic sex wave that we are now witnessing. maybe he doesn't trust his naughty impulses. maybe he is gay. maybe he was beaten by his mother.
and you have a lot of gall calling out Democrats when you elected the Groper In Chief.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Apr 6, 2019 12:27:56 GMT -5
For everyone here that ridiculed and put down VP Pence for saying he would not get in a position of being alone with a member of the opposite sex, you might want to admit it may not be as obnoxious as you claimed at the time. He seems he was ahead of the democratic sex wave that we are now witnessing. maybe he doesn't trust his naughty impulses. maybe he is gay. maybe he was beaten by his mother.
and you have a lot of gall calling out Democrats when you elected the Groper In Chief.
You are going to have a very bad next six years.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 6, 2019 12:28:54 GMT -5
I work for a sexual assault prevention and education firm, VB.
if you think for a second that I think this way, you're the crazy one.
No, I did not think you were included. Until these women accusers stop using cosmetics, nail polish, hair care products, and not shave their armpits trying to beautify their features and attracting the opposite sex, they are wrong in their attempt to accuse Joe, and then say they wouild still vote for him. you really stepped in it, there. i won't bother pointing out why.
PS- thanks for giving me an "out".
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