Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 3, 2019 9:55:13 GMT -5
We have other options, we should use them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 3, 2019 9:57:33 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 3, 2019 9:58:09 GMT -5
We have other options, we should use them. I agree.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 3, 2019 9:58:15 GMT -5
Like your a 'good' republican, right?
The word is 'you're' which is a contraction of 'you are'. I hope your local school as a basic English class you can take. You didn't like being called 'a good republican' so you are trying to school me on contractions? Maybe your local school has a basic English class you can take to learn how to spell the word 'has'. While the petty grammar corrections out of the blue have already worn thin a long time ago. I do love when they make their own grammar/spelling mistake in their correction!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 10:23:49 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. unfortunately, some people can't tell the difference: trauma victims.
so, then the question becomes whether trauma victims should become the arbiters of human behavior.
and I really have no answer for that one.
depends, I guess.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 10:25:03 GMT -5
I'm failing to see much difference between the GOP holding their collective noses and voting for 45 vs. the Dems holding their collective noses and voting for Biden, should he get that far. I would argue that their odor is distinctly different.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 3, 2019 10:29:06 GMT -5
This notion that his "intent" somehow exonerates him is ridiculous. No one has the right to touch you without consent. Full stop. I don't care if he's "just being friendly" or not. It's not his right, and the touching doesn't have to be sexual to make someone uncomfortable. No one should have to defend their position on not wanting to be touched by a total stranger. Besides which, no one but Biden can truly know his intent here. Just because he seems like an affable, grandfatherly guy, only he truly knows what prompts him to touch women he barely knows
He is totally in the wrong here. His apologies on the subject have been lackluster at best. He doesn't think he has ever acted inappropriately. He seems to believe he has an intrinsic right to touch women, whether they are receptive or not. The onus is not on women to learn to tell the difference between friendly contact and molestation. The onus is on ole' Joe to keep his damn hands and lips to himself.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 10:34:08 GMT -5
This notion that his "intent" somehow exonerates him is ridiculous. No one has the right to touch you without consent. Full stop. I don't care if he's "just being friendly" or not. It's not his right, and the touching doesn't have to be sexual to make someone uncomfortable. No one should have to defend their position on not wanting to be touched by a total stranger. Besides which, no one but Biden can truly know his intent here. Just because he seems like an affable, grandfatherly guy, only he truly knows what prompts him to touch women he barely knows
He is totally in the wrong here. His apologies on the subject have been lackluster at best. He doesn't think he has ever acted inappropriately. He seems to believe he has an intrinsic right to touch women, whether they are receptive or not. The onus is not on women to learn to tell the difference between friendly contact and molestation. The onus is on ole' Joe to keep his damn hands and lips to himself.
gh- I actually agree with you. I just want to start out that way.
I think this issue is a bit more nuanced than this, tho. i don't think we are at a point where anyone can discuss it, tho. it is all black and white and no grey right now.
let me just ask you a question: have you heard of a concept called "calling in" (-vs- "calling out")?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 3, 2019 10:58:08 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I agree, but I have reservations. Like I said up thread, I always felt Joe Biden was too old to be considered for President, but Trump has also destroyed our opinion of Elizabeth Warren. Whoever emerges next, he will shred too. If we can't consider anyone that Trump and the Republicans have made fun of, we don't have a chance in hell of electing someone else as President.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 11:11:04 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I agree, but I have reservations. Like I said up thread, I always felt Joe Biden was too old to be considered for President, but Trump has also destroyed our opinion of Elizabeth Warren. Whoever emerges next, he will shred too. If we can't consider anyone that Trump and the Republicans have made fun of, we don't have a chance in hell of electing someone else as President. we have to, as a nation, get past these superficialities.
people are imperfect. I think Warren is a very fine candidate and person, and can't see any reason to NOT vote for her, despite what Trump has said. I kinda feel the same way about Biden. my beef with him is that he speaks extemporaneously, and is gaffe prone. I regard that as "unpresidential" (it is one of my main beefs against Trump, as well).
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 3, 2019 11:18:24 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I agree, but I have reservations. Like I said up thread, I always felt Joe Biden was too old to be considered for President, but Trump has also destroyed our opinion of Elizabeth Warren. Whoever emerges next, he will shred too. If we can't consider anyone that Trump and the Republicans have made fun of, we don't have a chance in hell of electing someone else as President. My opinion of warren is completely unaffected by trump. I was never a fan of warren, won't vote for her in the primary, but would have no qualms voting for her in the general. I'd have a lot of qualms on biden.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 3, 2019 11:19:42 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I agree, but I have reservations. Like I said up thread, I always felt Joe Biden was too old to be considered for President, but Trump has also destroyed our opinion of Elizabeth Warren. Whoever emerges next, he will shred too. If we can't consider anyone that Trump and the Republicans have made fun of, we don't have a chance in hell of electing someone else as President. Trump hasn't touched my opinion of her, and as it stands right now, she will likely get my vote in the primary. Her policy stances most closely align with my own.
If anything is unfavorably coloring my opinion of Biden right now, it's watching all the Democrats scrambling to defend him. If it were Trump, or any other Republican, accused of the same, they wouldn't be hesitating to call him out.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 3, 2019 13:15:35 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I agree, but I have reservations. Like I said up thread, I always felt Joe Biden was too old to be considered for President, but Trump has also destroyed our opinion of Elizabeth Warren. Whoever emerges next, he will shred too. If we can't consider anyone that Trump and the Republicans have made fun of, we don't have a chance in hell of electing someone else as President. Trump didn't shred Biden - Democrats did. We can't let the party force the voters to chose someone they don't like before we even get to the general - that is what happened with Hillary. And look how that turned out. Biden might have name recognition and people over 70 years old behind him, but the millennials think he is a creepy old establishment guy. They will vote third party and Trump will stay in power.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 3, 2019 13:22:47 GMT -5
The GOP has launched ads about 'creepy' Biden.
Which I think is hil-ar-i-ous given that their president liked to pop into the changing room of the beauty pageant he owned just so that he could catch a look at the naked and topless beautiful young women changing clothes - and whose equally creepy daughter knew he did this and laughed it off.
Doesn't get much creeper than that. A whole creepy family.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 3, 2019 13:27:14 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. Even Biden's "victims" said the touching was completely non-sexual. I'm having a tough time being outraged about it, coming from a Russian/French culture, where people are always kissing and hugging.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 3, 2019 13:28:47 GMT -5
The GOP has launched ads about 'creepy' Biden.
Which I think is hil-ar-i-ous given that their president liked to pop into the changing room of the beauty pageant he owned just so that he could catch a look at the naked and topless beautiful young women changing clothes - and whose equally creepy daughter knew he did this and laughed it off.
Doesn't get much creeper than that. A whole creepy family. ^^This^^ Their hypocrisy knows no bounds. They voted for the proverbial dirty old man. This is a guy who said he had no problem with people calling his own daughter a "piece of ass".
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 3, 2019 16:23:02 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. Even Biden's "victims" said the touching was completely non-sexual. I'm having a tough time being outraged about it, coming from a Russian/French culture, where people are always kissing and hugging. Yep, I work for a French company, opposite sex employees that know each other often greet each other with pecks on each cheek; to refrain would label you weird. (Although I've never seen a French colleague attempt that with an American, I guess they've been warned not to do that. Only hearty handshakes for us! I have seen some American colleagues awkwardly go in for the two pecks on a French colleague, which has always been cheerfully well received on the French end).
I also live in the South where we have a separate time set aside in our church service for everyone to go around and hug everyone else. Just last week, a male employee half my age quit to move away to marry his GF - which required a fair well hug. So I guess for me it's easy to separate creepy guy fondling and friendly hugging, but I realize that may be a regional kind of thing.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 3, 2019 16:26:41 GMT -5
In my company we often greet out of town co-workers with hugs. The President and I hugged last week - hello and goodbye. But, no one would come up behind me, rub my shoulders and kiss my head.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 3, 2019 16:56:13 GMT -5
I kinda feel like this is going to make biden run just cause?
Whereas before I think he may have just wanted the attention but not the headache of running...,
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 17:52:23 GMT -5
I kinda feel like this is going to make biden run just cause? Whereas before I think he may have just wanted the attention but not the headache of running..., nah, I think he is less likely to run. and that is kindof a shame.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 3, 2019 17:55:20 GMT -5
Even Biden's "victims" said the touching was completely non-sexual. I'm having a tough time being outraged about it, coming from a Russian/French culture, where people are always kissing and hugging. Yep, I work for a French company, opposite sex employees that know each other often greet each other with pecks on each cheek; to refrain would label you weird. (Although I've never seen a French colleague attempt that with an American, I guess they've been warned not to do that. Only hearty handshakes for us! I have seen some American colleagues awkwardly go in for the two pecks on a French colleague, which has always been cheerfully well received on the French end).
I also live in the South where we have a separate time set aside in our church service for everyone to go around and hug everyone else. Just last week, a male employee half my age quit to move away to marry his GF - which required a fair well hug. So I guess for me it's easy to separate creepy guy fondling and friendly hugging, but I realize that may be a regional kind of thing.
I can get confused at times. It's two kisses for the French and three kisses for the Russians. Maybe I should just have sex with everyone I meet to avoid any hard feelings.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 3, 2019 18:00:11 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. and I heard the woman in question own complaint during the news report. It was "hands on my shoulders, smelled my hair, kissed the top of my head". This is quite different from a back of the neck kiss IMO.
And this is not even in the PEEWEE league compared to the majors of "grab 'em by the p*ssy", walking in (on purpose) on a group of naked and semi-naked young women, or sticking your tongue down someone's throat, and on and on!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 3, 2019 18:50:18 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. unfortunately, some people can't tell the difference: trauma victims.
so, then the question becomes whether trauma victims should become the arbiters of human behavior.
and I really have no answer for that one.
depends, I guess.
In this particular case, I'm thinking a trauma victim would be the victim of rape. Well, I was raped at the age of 13. I'm not a victim, however. I survived, I worked through it, and I recovered. I haven't allowed it to color my view of the world at large, nor have I allowed it to render me "gun shy" when it comes to human contact. I'm quite able to discern the difference between friendly touch and touch with nefarious intent. It's served me well for 77 years.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Apr 3, 2019 19:49:31 GMT -5
Biden stroking the hair of young girls that he doesn't even know set off my creep vibe the same way watching trump stalk Hilary during the debate did.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 3, 2019 20:47:50 GMT -5
Good Ol Joe!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2019 23:11:43 GMT -5
unfortunately, some people can't tell the difference: trauma victims.
so, then the question becomes whether trauma victims should become the arbiters of human behavior.
and I really have no answer for that one.
depends, I guess.
In this particular case, I'm thinking a trauma victim would be the victim of rape. Well, I was raped at the age of 13. I'm not a victim, however. I survived, I worked through it, and I recovered. I haven't allowed it to color my view of the world at large, nor have I allowed it to render me "gun shy" when it comes to human contact. I'm quite able to discern the difference between friendly touch and touch with nefarious intent. It's served me well for 77 years. you're stronger than many, imo. but I will set the argument aside, as there is considerable overlap in our views.
that having been said, I am reluctant to defend Joe. I have my own reputation to concern me, if you know what mean.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 5, 2019 12:59:21 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I think democrats are going to mess this up by their own themselves... the infighting and the desire to have a candidate as pure as snow is CRAZY!!! Trump is not popular, the only way he will win is if we get people to hate the democratic candidate more than they hate him. And the way we are going at it: that will be an easy feat! So maddening!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Apr 5, 2019 13:04:19 GMT -5
I've known so many people over the years who were like Joe Biden - friendly souls who aren't afraid to reach out and touch someone. I never once felt I was being molested. Sorry, but I'm pretty sure almost anyone with a modicum of discernment can tell the difference between friendliness and molestation. Unless, of course, they're looking for something to be offended about. Even Biden's "victims" said the touching was completely non-sexual. I'm having a tough time being outraged about it, coming from a Russian/French culture, where people are always kissing and hugging. AMEN!!! I had to re-adjust once in America because in my culture (Haitian / French base)... we hug and kiss on the cheeks when we meet people. I remember my first job in the states at 18 when I showed up my first day and I went to kiss the 2 ladies on the cheeks; yep that set me straight. They were nice about it but a mistake that will never be repeated... 16 years ago and I still remember.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Apr 5, 2019 14:04:09 GMT -5
Biden is now toxic. Trump's team didn't even have to work at this one. I think democrats are going to mess this up by their own themselves... the infighting and the desire to have a candidate as pure as snow is CRAZY!!! Trump is not popular, the only way he will win is if we get people to hate the democratic candidate more than they hate him. And the way we are going at it: that will be an easy feat! So maddening! So much this!!!! Everything you said above is the reason I think Trump will be re-elected. There are too many dems that will not vote if the candidate isn't "their" candidate. It happened last time with the Bernie fans. Republicans may be uneducated, but Democrats are too damn stubborn, and its going to cost us another election.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 5, 2019 14:21:11 GMT -5
I think this might start to test the "Me Too" movement. And I think those who care about the credibility of the movement should be taking note. There is a point at which things get taken too far. Not every move, touch, word or smile is meant as a sexual crime, and some latitude needs to be taken for humanity. Sometimes we all need to take a chill pill, and so do some of the more extreme voices in this movement. After all, men and women DO like one another, fundamentally. Even the boys at the club clap one another on the back. It is not all criminal. seriously. do we want to live in a culture where nobody ever touches one another without asking for it?
really?
well, I don't.
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