djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 8, 2019 16:39:18 GMT -5
I was wondering who would say that first.
this is why I said that I don't want to live in a society where non consensual contact is verboten.
if this is such a place, I am truly done here.
I don't understand what you're saying here? What does contact have to do with one-on-one meetings? i am saying the same thing i have been saying this entire thread.
i am feeling tired and frustrated now, so you will forgive me for not wanting to repeat myself?
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Apr 8, 2019 21:34:23 GMT -5
You didn't like being called 'a good republican'
I don't mind being called a 'good republican' but I would rather be called 'a good American'
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 9, 2019 13:17:46 GMT -5
Rather interesting comeback to post here. Sad. Really sad. I sincerely pray you wind up paying actual market rent prices when you find your next place instead of living off government controlled rental policies. That was mean and uncalled for. That was a alarmingly ignorant comment to make. Really stupid, not to mention misogynistic.
Mean and uncallled for I agree.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 9, 2019 17:59:05 GMT -5
Is there any hope, YM?
Who knew it would be biden rendering us asunder?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 9, 2019 23:13:13 GMT -5
Is there any hope, YM? Who knew it would be biden rendering us asunder? is he running, yet?
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 10, 2019 7:27:05 GMT -5
does that piece of it even matter?
I think it's more fundamental.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 10:18:37 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that someone like Biden is acting as a lightning rod. He is viewed as a generally "decent" guy that a lot of generally decent guys can identify with. When the behavior of one of their own is called out as inappropriate, they feel threatened and attacked. Not everyone deals with self reflection well.
It is a conversation that needs to keep happening. Men need to understand that just because you aren't physically or sexually assaulting someone, doesn't mean you haven't made someone feel uncomfortable or unsafe.
I was reading a thread on Twitter the other day about a woman who was in a Lyft group ride. After all the other people got out, the driver started acting invasive personal questions about her boyfriend, if he was home, etc. As they pulled up to her apartment she realized she was locked in. He wouldn't release the locks and she finally had to pry the lock open to get out. Lyft's response to her complaint was a $5 credit.
I think both Joe, the Lyft driver, and other examples to innumerable to list, all highlight the same fundamental issue. Men feel they have some intrinsic right of access to women, and their bodies. They don't. It doesn't have to escalate to the level of sexual assault to be a problem. Until they get that, there is going to be an issue.
Do I think Joe is the devil? No. Do I think he need to be called out for his past behavior and held accountable? Yes.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 10, 2019 10:44:42 GMT -5
Biden is toast, He probably was the best choice,, but he is done. if he continues, it will be a landslide of every picture in the World of him getting too cozy with men, women, and kids! Yea, I seen one picture where he is sitting next to a big fat cop, with his hand on the cops leg! The cop looks like What the f**k you doing!!!!!!!!!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 10, 2019 10:53:31 GMT -5
does that piece of it even matter? I think it's more fundamental. I am not even sure I can take you seriously, right now.
but then again, I don't see nearly the amount of division you do.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 10, 2019 10:55:58 GMT -5
Biden is toast, He probably was the best choice,, but he is done. if he continues, it will be a landslide of every picture in the World of him getting too cozy with men, women, and kids! Yea, I seen one picture where he is sitting next to a big fat cop, with his hand on the cops leg! The cop looks like What the f**k you doing!!!!!!!!!!
imo, he is a washed up old white dude. he should retire.
a person I admired on the board about 15 years ago thought he was the best candidate out there. what I see is a guy that is affable, but prone to gaffes. could a winning candidate be made of the guy? sure. but more likely, he would step on a land mine and blow himself up.
this impression has not changed over time, for me.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2019 10:57:49 GMT -5
I am not sold on the "Biden is the best choice" narrative. It is using old school logic that only old people vote. There was a tremendous amount of energy among young voters when Obama came on the scene. Some of those voters didn't bother in 2016 because both candidates sucked. If we have a candidate that appeals to young voters, they have a good chance to win without wooing all the baby boomers.
Maybe I am ahead of the curve here. Maybe in 2028 when millenials have more to lose, and there are fewer baby boomers, winning candidates will be younger. The days of 80 year old presidents will come to an end, because Gen X is too small to hold power for long (if ever).
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 11:13:58 GMT -5
I am not sold on the "Biden is the best choice" narrative. It is using old school logic that only old people vote. There was a tremendous amount of energy among young voters when Obama came on the scene. Some of those voters didn't bother in 2016 because both candidates sucked. If we have a candidate that appeals to young voters, they have a good chance to win without wooing all the baby boomers. Maybe I am ahead of the curve here. Maybe in 2028 when millenials have more to lose, and there are fewer baby boomers, winning candidates will be younger. The days of 80 year old presidents will come to an end, because Gen X is too small to hold power for long (if ever). There is no way Biden mobilizes the youth vote. Bernie, for all his momentum last time, also seems to have lost his shine (a fact for which I'm glad- the more he talks, the bigger an ass he reveals himself to be).
I'm not a millennial (at least in my mind), but at 39, I'm close (depending on which breakdown you look at). I've always been a pragmatic voter, and don't see that changing. My motivation to vote has nothing to do with who is on the ballot, but rather a sense of civic responsibility.
The Democratic Party is going to have a hard time finding a candidate that will both galvanize the youth vote, mobilize the democratic base, and appeal to so called moderates in red states. At some point they are going to have to play the numbers and realize the future doesn't lay in the past. Because while I will vote for anyone NotTrump, I think you are going to see a lot of younger folks starting to expect more from their candidates, and refusing to just vote for the lesser of two evils.
Which I think is a good thing. The entrenched establishment of both sides has a lot of room for improvement.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 10, 2019 11:29:25 GMT -5
I am not sold on the "Biden is the best choice" narrative. It is using old school logic that only old people vote. There was a tremendous amount of energy among young voters when Obama came on the scene. Some of those voters didn't bother in 2016 because both candidates sucked. If we have a candidate that appeals to young voters, they have a good chance to win without wooing all the baby boomers. Maybe I am ahead of the curve here. Maybe in 2028 when millenials have more to lose, and there are fewer baby boomers, winning candidates will be younger. The days of 80 year old presidents will come to an end, because Gen X is too small to hold power for long (if ever). There is no way Biden mobilizes the youth vote. Bernie, for all his momentum last time, also seems to have lost his shine (a fact for which I'm glad- the more he talks, the bigger an ass he reveals himself to be).
I'm not a millennial (at least in my mind), but at 39, I'm close (depending on which breakdown you look at). I've always been a pragmatic voter, and don't see that changing. My motivation to vote has nothing to do with who is on the ballot, but rather a sense of civic responsibility.
The Democratic Party is going to have a hard time finding a candidate that will both galvanize the youth vote, mobilize the democratic base, and appeal to so called moderates in red states. At some point they are going to have to play the numbers and realize the future doesn't lay in the past. Because while I will vote for anyone NotTrump, I think you are going to see a lot of younger folks starting to expect more from their candidates, and refusing to just vote for the lesser of two evils.
Which I think is a good thing. The entrenched establishment of both sides has a lot of room for improvement.
I don't think that Democrats need to do all of that. if they had shifted 1% of the vote in the last election, they would have won, with a horribly flawed candidate.
I don't want to overstate this, because things CAN change, but they are currently 7% higher in the generic ballot than in 2016. if they can hold on to even a fraction of that, then the only thing they need to do is field a candidate that is somewhat less flawed than Clinton.
that doesn't seem like a very big challenge to me.
note: I doubt I will vote Democrat in the next election. but I would rather saw my arm off than vote for Trump.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 10, 2019 11:32:25 GMT -5
I am not sold on the "Biden is the best choice" narrative. It is using old school logic that only old people vote. There was a tremendous amount of energy among young voters when Obama came on the scene. Some of those voters didn't bother in 2016 because both candidates sucked. If we have a candidate that appeals to young voters, they have a good chance to win without wooing all the baby boomers. Maybe I am ahead of the curve here. Maybe in 2028 when millenials have more to lose, and there are fewer baby boomers, winning candidates will be younger. The days of 80 year old presidents will come to an end, because Gen X is too small to hold power for long (if ever). Actually the millenials have a lot to lose before 2028, quite a few of them just don't realize it yet. With what is happening to the federal courts right now, many will be reaping the harvest of not voting in this election (and potentially the next one) for the rest of their lives...
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 12:57:20 GMT -5
I don't think that Democrats need to do all of that. if they had shifted 1% of the vote in the last election, they would have won, with a horribly flawed candidate.
I don't want to overstate this, because things CAN change, but they are currently 7% higher in the generic ballot than in 2016. if they can hold on to even a fraction of that, then the only thing they need to do is field a candidate that is somewhat less flawed than Clinton.
that doesn't seem like a very big challenge to me.
note: I doubt I will vote Democrat in the next election. but I would rather saw my arm off than vote for Trump.
You can counter a Dem Presidential ballot with R ballots for Senate/ House. Job one for Americans is getting Trump out of the White House in 2020, and the only way to do that will be to vote for a Democrat. It is up to YOU dj. This is why I just can't vote third party. Protest votes need to take a back seat to getting that disaster out of the Oval Office.
I'm no great fan of Biden, but I will damn well vote for him if he's the nominee.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 13:01:08 GMT -5
I am not sold on the "Biden is the best choice" narrative. It is using old school logic that only old people vote. There was a tremendous amount of energy among young voters when Obama came on the scene. Some of those voters didn't bother in 2016 because both candidates sucked. If we have a candidate that appeals to young voters, they have a good chance to win without wooing all the baby boomers. Maybe I am ahead of the curve here. Maybe in 2028 when millenials have more to lose, and there are fewer baby boomers, winning candidates will be younger. The days of 80 year old presidents will come to an end, because Gen X is too small to hold power for long (if ever). Actually the millenials have a lot to lose before 2028, quite a few of them just don't realize it yet. With what is happening to the federal courts right now, many will be reaping the harvest of not voting in this election (and potentially the next one) for the rest of their lives... They will indeed, and it seems to be only getting worse. I wish they had had a bit more foresight in 2016.
I have more animosity toward disgruntled Bernie supporters who stayed home than I do Trump supporters. Yeah, it sucks when your preferred candidate doesn't get the nomination (I felt that in 2008), but you don't get to stay home and pout about it. There is a much bigger picture at stake.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 10, 2019 13:21:57 GMT -5
You can counter a Dem Presidential ballot with R ballots for Senate/ House. Job one for Americans is getting Trump out of the White House in 2020, and the only way to do that will be to vote for a Democrat. It is up to YOU dj. This is why I just can't vote third party. Protest votes need to take a back seat to getting that disaster out of the Oval Office.
I'm no great fan of Biden, but I will damn well vote for him if he's the nominee.
Mitch McConnell is doing at least as much damage to the country (if not more) than dt; we are not paying enough attention to that slimy creep IMO.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 13:26:24 GMT -5
This is why I just can't vote third party. Protest votes need to take a back seat to getting that disaster out of the Oval Office.
I'm no great fan of Biden, but I will damn well vote for him if he's the nominee.
Mitch McConnell is doing at least as much damage to the country (if not more) than dt; we are not paying enough attention to that slimy creep IMO. For sure, unfortunately he isn't subject to a national election. His races aren't even close. I'm not holding out for Kentucky to change that anytime soon.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 10, 2019 13:28:42 GMT -5
grumpyhermit but we can and have to try to get him out of the leadership of the majority position in the Senate and remove his poisonous sting
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 10, 2019 13:35:51 GMT -5
grumpyhermit but we can and have to try to get him out of the leadership of the majority position in the Senate and remove his poisonous sting True. I live in a double blue state though, so my vote is largely useless in that regard. If I was still in Maine I would be dedicating a lot of time to making sure Collins doesn't stand a chance in her re-election bid, but she's pretty firmly entrenched. For an alleged moderate Republican, she has been an astonishing disappointment.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 10, 2019 13:48:44 GMT -5
grumpyhermit but we can and have to try to get him out of the leadership of the majority position in the Senate and remove his poisonous sting True. I live in a double blue state though, so my vote is largely useless in that regard. If I was still in Maine I would be dedicating a lot of time to making sure Collins doesn't stand a chance in her re-election bid, but she's pretty firmly entrenched. For an alleged moderate Republican, she has been an astonishing disappointment. Ever since CA passed proposition 8 in 2008 (the anti-gay marriage act) funded by 30% of out-of-state money (a lot of that came from Utah) I have considered actively getting involved in other states' elections fair game. You know that goose/gander thingy.
And while I can't vote without giving up my maroon passport (not going to happen) this is the country of my youngest son and my grandbabies so I am politically active → I just don't step over the legal lines
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engineerdoe
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Post by engineerdoe on Apr 10, 2019 14:22:04 GMT -5
I have worked with a man who is a toucher like Biden. The touches were never sexual but as I don't even like hugs from my mother sometimes, definitely not wanted. I never said anything as for the most point it was a quick touch as he was conveying something to me at the time. Now, the men in the office had it much worse because he would slap them on the shoulders while they were standing at the urinals. Do I think he is a creep? No, just someone who needs to touch people to have a connection with them. I know we see all the video and photos of Biden touching women and girls but what of the photos and videos of him glad-handing men and boys? He seems to be of the temperament of my former colleague in that he just feels the need to touch people to include them in what ever is happening. His non-apology video I was not impressed with as I feel he should have apologized first and foremost. That he did at least state that he has heard what these women have said and he is learning, I find that hopeful. Whether he follows through, who knows. If he is the nominated candidate, he will get my vote because Trump has to be removed.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 10, 2019 17:26:17 GMT -5
I don't think that Democrats need to do all of that. if they had shifted 1% of the vote in the last election, they would have won, with a horribly flawed candidate.
I don't want to overstate this, because things CAN change, but they are currently 7% higher in the generic ballot than in 2016. if they can hold on to even a fraction of that, then the only thing they need to do is field a candidate that is somewhat less flawed than Clinton.
that doesn't seem like a very big challenge to me.
note: I doubt I will vote Democrat in the next election. but I would rather saw my arm off than vote for Trump.
You can counter a Dem Presidential ballot with R ballots for Senate/ House. Job one for Americans is getting Trump out of the White House in 2020, and the only way to do that will be to vote for a Democrat. It is up to YOU dj. don't pull that bullshit on me. I live in a dark blue corner of a bright blue state. I can vote for who I want to win, and I feel no guilt whatsoever for doing so. you should be thankful that I have stopped encouraging others to do so, but please spare me the lecture. especially coming from a state that actually cast ELECTORS for that asshole. I should be lecturing YOU.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 10, 2019 17:41:42 GMT -5
does that piece of it even matter? I think it's more fundamental. I am not even sure I can take you seriously, right now.
but then again, I don't see nearly the amount of division you do.
Whether he runs or not the division here is apparent.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 10, 2019 17:43:47 GMT -5
I am not even sure I can take you seriously, right now.
but then again, I don't see nearly the amount of division you do.
Whether he runs or not the division here is apparent. really? who thinks that Biden is the ideal candidate? who thinks that his behavior is utterly acceptable?
from where I sit, the differences are relatively minor. nothing to concern anyone, imo.
you obviously think differently, but don't think for a second that you are in the majority.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 10, 2019 17:43:49 GMT -5
I have worked with a man who is a toucher like Biden. The touches were never sexual but as I don't even like hugs from my mother sometimes, definitely not wanted. I never said anything as for the most point it was a quick touch as he was conveying something to me at the time. Now, the men in the office had it much worse because he would slap them on the shoulders while they were standing at the urinals. Do I think he is a creep? No, just someone who needs to touch people to have a connection with them. I know we see all the video and photos of Biden touching women and girls but what of the photos and videos of him glad-handing men and boys? He seems to be of the temperament of my former colleague in that he just feels the need to touch people to include them in what ever is happening. His non-apology video I was not impressed with as I feel he should have apologized first and foremost. That he did at least state that he has heard what these women have said and he is learning, I find that hopeful. Whether he follows through, who knows. If he is the nominated candidate, he will get my vote because Trump has to be removed. You make him sound like a wart. But then again.....apropos?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 11, 2019 8:44:31 GMT -5
don't pull that bullshit on me. I live in a dark blue corner of a bright blue state. I can vote for who I want to win, and I feel no guilt whatsoever for doing so. you should be thankful that I have stopped encouraging others to do so, but please spare me the lecture. especially coming from a state that actually cast ELECTORS for that asshole. I should be lecturing YOU.
OK, you get a pass from me* for that practical reason..... but not for the sanctimonious sentiment that we can be pure as the driven snow and put our sensibilities over national interest. Regarding the second point.... I can do nothing about my state's second district, unfortunately. Mine voted quite clearly for the other candidate. In fact though, we are providing a laboratory for ranked choice voting, which WILL allow people to vote their consciousness. You're welcome. *Of course I realize no one cares whether they get a pass from me. Sad, really. really? you are incapable of campaigning in the second district? they have walls around it? they will shoot you if you try?
c'mon. I was not born yesterday, dude.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 11, 2019 9:04:12 GMT -5
don't pull that bullshit on me. I live in a dark blue corner of a bright blue state. I can vote for who I want to win, and I feel no guilt whatsoever for doing so. you should be thankful that I have stopped encouraging others to do so, but please spare me the lecture. especially coming from a state that actually cast ELECTORS for that asshole. I should be lecturing YOU.
OK, you get a pass from me* for that practical reason..... but not for the sanctimonious sentiment that we can be pure as the driven snow and put our sensibilities over national interest. Regarding the second point.... I can do nothing about my state's second district, unfortunately. Mine voted quite clearly for the other candidate. In fact though, we are providing a laboratory for ranked choice voting, which WILL allow people to vote their consciousness. You're welcome. *Of course I realize no one cares whether they get a pass from me. Sad, really. This is why it is a shame that so many people's votes mean nothing in the Presidential race. If only we could make people feel like they mattered.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 11, 2019 9:08:03 GMT -5
really? you are incapable of campaigning in the second district? they have walls around it? they will shoot you if you try?
c'mon. I was not born yesterday, dude.
Well, OK, I could. But I am too busy working in the First District to spend time up there. And, to be honest with you, I did nothing in any respect prior to the 2016 election other than vote. I didn't think I needed to. 2018 was a different story, as will be 2020. But even next year, there will be plenty to do right here at home. I mean....maybe? They've been known to shoot each other for less.
In all seriousness, good luck. I lived in the second for 10 years, and I wouldn't want to try to engage most of those peeps in political debate.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Apr 11, 2019 9:09:48 GMT -5
OK, you get a pass from me* for that practical reason..... but not for the sanctimonious sentiment that we can be pure as the driven snow and put our sensibilities over national interest. Regarding the second point.... I can do nothing about my state's second district, unfortunately. Mine voted quite clearly for the other candidate. In fact though, we are providing a laboratory for ranked choice voting, which WILL allow people to vote their consciousness. You're welcome. *Of course I realize no one cares whether they get a pass from me. Sad, really. This is why it is a shame that so many people's votes mean nothing in the Presidential race. If only we could make people feel like they mattered. I think it makes perfect sense to move the presidential election to a raw popular vote, and I have for ages. We have the House as the body that can represent people from less populated areas and their interests.
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