How Important is Punctuality to Financial Success?

[Firebird]

It's more the blanket mentality of "I don't have to consider others if I don't feel like it" that I don't get.

[Colleenz]

That is why I don't buy Pauls' "spin" on this one. If he and his wife had had a calm rational discussion before then she would not have been mad. The situation sounds a lot more like "I'm going to amke you do what I want you to do or make you suffer". That is no partnership.

[thyme4change]

Do Paul and his wife only own one car?

If my husband left me at home, I would just take the other car and do whatever I want. Now, if he left me at home AND took my keys, well then, I would probably go back to bed, or watch TV. But, yeah, I would probably think he was a total dick.

[Firebird]

If he and his wife had had a calm rational discussion before then she would not have been mad.

Maybe, maybe not. It sounds like he tried talking to her and it didn't work. Some people don't do the "calm and rational discussion followed by me doing something calm and rational" thing.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"It's more the blanket mentality of "I don't have to consider others if I don't feel like it" that I don't get.":::...

In my experience, its more that they feel they have considered others and that their feelings are just more important.

...:::"If he and his wife had had a calm rational discussion before then she would not have been mad.":::...

I disagree completely. I think they DID have several discussions and she was still late. Maybe not on purpose or out of resistance, but she was late. I bet a lot of the anger was the "I can't believe he actually DID leave without me" which as has been shown she quickly got over.

Most of us are angry when we trigger a consequence we deserve, because consequences are irritating and cost us time/money/goodwill... that doesn't mean that after the fact we won't agree we deserved them.

...:::"If my husband left me at home, I would just take the other car and do whatever I want. Now, if he left me at home AND took my keys, well then, I would probably go back to bed, or watch TV. But, yeah, I would probably think he was a total dick.":::...

Typical inconsiderate behavior! To play the victim and act like you were the one who was wronged and actually hold it against him. How would you feel if your spouse was constantly late, and you'd tried everything including this fabled "its really really important to me" fairytale that seems to work for other people. You finally get your spouse to agree to be on time (a time you've compromised on) lest he leave you behind. The day comes, you are late as usual, and he finally follows through. You would be mad at him?

I think you'd be more mad at yourself for making it necessary for him to do that. Seriously, you all talk about how you want a partner you can respect. But do you respect someone who caves all the time? Women are especially prone to this trap -- they want a man who stands up to them, but they give him hell when he does.

And remember we are talking specifically about a situation where all the "peaceful" angles, as well as a conversation have already taken place.

[swamp]

If DH took the kids and left for church without me, I'd probably do a happy dance and go back to bed.

[Colleenz]

I guess I live in a fairytale then because the rational "this is important to me and this is why" discussions work - both ways. We WANT each other to have happy peaceful lives.

[swamp]

May 26, 2011 13:29:58 GMT -5 Colleenz said:

I guess I live in a fairytale then because the rational "this is important to me and this is why" discussions work - both ways. We WANT each other to have happy peaceful lives.

That's how it generally works at my house too. Yes, we'd had some stupid fights, but no continual passive aggressive stuff.

The worst argument was over whether or not to get a cleaning lady. I got sick of arguing about it and just did it.

[thyme4change]

IF DH took the kids and went to church, I'd think "When did he decide to go to church?"

Seriously, you all talk about how you want a partner you can respect. But do you respect someone who caves all the time? Women are especially prone to this trap -- they want a man who stands up to them, but they give him hell when he does.

Like all married couples, my husband and I both see areas in each other that we wish would change or improve. I spent the first couple of years making the consequences painful, so he would "change." And you know what - I realized that I was being a bitch. It takes longer for him to come around when I treat him with respect - but our relationship is stronger because we treat each other well, even when we are pissed off. We don't just grab the key and speed away. It just seems juvenile to me. Maybe it works in some other people's relationships - but it isn't how I chose to deal with my husband, and it isn't how he deals with me.

[illinicheme]

May 26, 2011 13:34:32 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

IF DH took the kids and went to church, I'd think "When did he decide to go to church?"

[Firebird]

I guess I live in a fairytale then because the rational "this is important to me and this is why" discussions work - both ways. We WANT each other to have happy peaceful lives.

[Firebird]

Most of us are angry when we trigger a consequence we deserve, because consequences are irritating and cost us time/money/goodwill... that doesn't mean that after the fact we won't agree we deserved them.

So, so, so, so true.

[zibazinski]

Not that I would be late but it would embarrass me to have to show up by myself and try to find my spouse because I chose to dawdle like a naughty two year old. Once would be all it took but then again, being able to sleep in and have a few hours of peace from those kids might be worth acting childish!!!! Maybe there's method to her madness.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I guess I live in a fairytale then because the rational "this is important to me and this is why" discussions work - both ways. We WANT each other to have happy peaceful lives.":::...

Right right, everyone HERE except me is perfect with perfect relationships, I haven't forgotten. I'm just saying that there are cases such as Paul's where "its important to me" just plain didn't work for whatever reason. Maybe it was a one off (and I know none of you would ever admit it if it happened to you) but the fact still remains that he TRIED the nicey-nice, respectful way, and it didn't work.

Maybe his wife really truly intended to be ready on time. Maybe the hot water took longer to get going. Maybe she forgot she was out of soap. Maybe she had a crippling stomach bug and stayed silent about it. I don't know. Even if she had a legitimate reason, she had really burned up all the goodwill she might have gotten.

Another angle, maybe Paul's wife was never on time because she suffers from the "I can't leave something undone once I see it" mentality. I've had a few times with DF where we had an impending departure deadline, and she spent time doing things that could have waited. I tried to explain that while its great she was attending to things, when we are working with an ever approaching deadline, activities have to be limited to "mission critical" tasks. Don't try to organize the mail when we have to leave in 10 minutes and you still haven't gotten in the shower.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 26, 2011 7:44:14 GMT -5 Taxman10 said:

:::And everyone knows better than to be late when I'm involved. I have been known to leave without people. For me, it began with church. I was tired of walking in late. It's once a week, and you can't get there on time? You know on Sunday at 10:30 a.m. that the next service is next Sunday at 9:00 a.m. The bottom line, and the unspoken reality was that it just wasn't that important to my wife to be there on time-- so, I started leaving without her. I got ready, rounded up the kids, put 'em in the van and just left.

I had tried all the "be nice" and "let it roll off" stuff I know how to play-- but the bottom line is that she just didn't care, and so sometimes you have to demonstrate that YOU care before anyone else is going tocare. :::

Every sunday morning, I dream, hope and pray my wife will pack up the kids and leave without me......but she always waits for me.

Now, see that's funny. Because while I hate to be late, there are times when I just don't want to go-- I have learned to communicate this in advance now, instead of waiting until we get up and hemming and hawing about it. But we do a lot of travel back and forth now and I don't like rolling on Saturday night, and getting up Sunday morning all bright-eyed and bushy tailed EVERY WEEK. I try.

Our Pastor chides us-- he's big on never missing a week: and he's got a good point-- he practices what he preaches. Cuz he's there preaching it. Every week. Even if he's not preaching, there are scant few Sundays he isn't there, and you know he is there early, stays for both services, and is probably the last one out the door.

But there are times, you know?

Anyway-- there are a host of other things I'd rather not do, but I don't like the drag your feet strategy of not doing them. I've learned to be firm in my yes, and no. Three years ago, this whole mess was actually my New Year's resolution: if it's important, SHOW me. If I mean yes-- SAY it, then DO it. If I mean NO- say and do that. Being on time, being clear about what I'd like-- even if we disagree and I later compromise, I need to be CLEAR from the START about what I really WANT. Doesn't mean I'm gonna get it- just means I'm clear about my position.

[swamp]

::Our Pastor chides us-- he's big on never missing a week: and he's got a good point-- he practices what he preaches. Cuz he's there preaching it. Every week. Even if he's not preaching, there are scant few Sundays he isn't there, and you know he is there early, stays for both services, and is probably the last one out the door.::

Because it's his job. Pay me and I'll show up every Sunday too.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I have learned to communicate this in advance now, instead of waiting until we get up and hemming and hawing about it.":::...

A good point. That hemming and hawing and expecting the other person to read your body language and say "oh, you don't want to do it, OK fine no problem".

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Another angle, maybe Paul's wife was never on time because she suffers from the "I can't leave something undone once I see it" mentality.

She's getting better- but yes, she has this. And speaking of mean- she imposes it on everyone. She has a tendancy to keep everything in her head, all at once, in no particular order of priority, is constantly distracted by whatever happens to come up, and communicates it all 'stream of consciousness' to whoever happens to be around.

Now, I have ADD anyway- so this just will not do. It was a constant distraction and interruption. I tried for years trying to explain this-- I think many of you may recall the empty the dishwasher discussion...

I finally bought a white board, stuck it on the wall in the kitchen with a set of markers and told her simply: New policy. If you think of something- write it down. If you say it- I don't hear it. Write it down and I PROMISE to get to it. The only thing I actually want to hear is along the lines of the baby's head fell off, or the house is on fire. Everything else can wait.

What's that you say? The dishwasher MUST be emptied NOW?!? Then I guess you better get on it. Because I'm not dropping what I'm doing to empty the dishwasher and fold clothes. If it's during business hours, I have to be assumed to be working-- even if I'm not. In which case, I'll take a few minutes out, see what's on the list and tackle what I can...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

And yes- it does make her LATE.

A common question I find myself asking all too often: Why are you doing that now

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

This message has been deleted.

~ moon mod

[thyme4change]

Not that I would be late but it would embarrass me to have to show up by myself and try to find my spouse because I chose to dawdle like a naughty two year old.

Not me. Nobody would know that you were left at home. They would think you had a decent reason to bring two cars. They wouldn't automatically assume that you were being punished like a child. At least I wouldn't. Now, if your husband went around church bragging about his punishment of you - then he is a superdick. And, if the people you go to church with do automatically guess that you were naughty and needed to be punished - then why are you going to church with a bunch of assholes?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 26, 2011 13:09:01 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do Paul and his wife only own one car?

If my husband left me at home, I would just take the other car and do whatever I want. Now, if he left me at home AND took my keys, well then, I would probably go back to bed, or watch TV. But, yeah, I would probably think he was a total dick.

I don't play games. If she wanted to grab the other car and meet us up, she could have. She stayed home and stewed about it because she was angry I left without her. I would have been angry if we were late. I guess I just decided that one of us was going to be upset, and that this time it was gonna be her.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 26, 2011 16:31:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

::Our Pastor chides us-- he's big on never missing a week: and he's got a good point-- he practices what he preaches. Cuz he's there preaching it. Every week. Even if he's not preaching, there are scant few Sundays he isn't there, and you know he is there early, stays for both services, and is probably the last one out the door.::

Because it's his job. Pay me and I'll show up every Sunday too.

Pastor has done well for himself. He has given back his ENTIRE salary to the building fund every year for the last seven or so years.

[swamp]

May 26, 2011 16:41:46 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 26, 2011 13:09:01 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Do Paul and his wife only own one car?

If my husband left me at home, I would just take the other car and do whatever I want. Now, if he left me at home AND took my keys, well then, I would probably go back to bed, or watch TV. But, yeah, I would probably think he was a total dick.

I don't play games. If she wanted to grab the other car and meet us up, she could have. She stayed home and stewed about it because she was angry I left without her. I would have been angry if we were late. I guess I just decided that one of us was going to be upset, and that this time it was gonna be her.

Are you sure she stewed about it, or did she revel in some alone time?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

He has NO control over the money. That goes to the board. Every year the board of elders votes him a salary, and every year he says he'll be fine without it. Every year they say, take it anyway, so he gives it back.

[swamp]

May 26, 2011 16:43:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 26, 2011 16:31:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

::Our Pastor chides us-- he's big on never missing a week: and he's got a good point-- he practices what he preaches. Cuz he's there preaching it. Every week. Even if he's not preaching, there are scant few Sundays he isn't there, and you know he is there early, stays for both services, and is probably the last one out the door.::

Because it's his job. Pay me and I'll show up every Sunday too.

Pastor has done well for himself. He has given back his ENTIRE salary to the building fund every year for the last seven or so years.

So he's independently wealthy. Nice work if you can get it.

[zibazinski]

I must be lucky with my church choices. Trying to find a new one up north here but one of my criteria is that it either has to be active in Heifer International or willing to let me start it within the church. Not working out so far.

[zibazinski]

Karma to Swamp!!!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 26, 2011 13:06:08 GMT -5 Colleenz said:

That is why I don't buy Pauls' "spin" on this one. If he and his wife had had a calm rational discussion before then she would not have been mad. The situation sounds a lot more like "I'm going to amke you do what I want you to do or make you suffer". That is no partnership.

I agree, but it wasn't working. She was "making me" be late and I was mad. There's no rational point to be made, or case for being late. And the compromise option is always there-- if she doesn't want to leave when I leave, she can drive the other car and arrive whenever she pleases. It's easier just to be on time, and so...she's on time. The problem is solved.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 26, 2011 16:44:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 26, 2011 16:43:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Pastor has done well for himself. He has given back his ENTIRE salary to the building fund every year for the last seven or so years.

So he's independently wealthy. Nice work if you can get it.

Financial responsibility / stewardship is a church requirement for me. I was sick and tired of people who were "called into the ministry"...right after they lost their job, and declared bankruptcy.

And that describes a LOT of ministers. Forgive me if that looks suspiciously like using ministry as a financial fall-back. And darned if they don't run their church the way they ran their finances previously.