Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 25, 2011 13:39:04 GMT -5
I am not in a business of changing people, especially my spouse. So, if my DH was constantly late, I would suggest taking two cars instead of "leaving" him behind. It's not like his lateness magically appeared the day AFTER we got married.
Bingo. Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiightbulllllllllllllllllllllllb.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 25, 2011 13:41:44 GMT -5
You are right. Most people for whom this is an issue get it resolved one way or the other before marriage.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 25, 2011 13:50:09 GMT -5
I would hesitate to get sucked into the treating-your-spouse-like-a-child cycle... because it does seem to become a cycle. The spouse being treated like a child is going to continue acting like a child (perhaps not regarding the original subject of discussion, but in another way). The spouse treating the other spouse like a child is going to react in a parental manner - because now the spouse IS acting like a child. And on and on, until it becomes a chicken and egg question - is one spouse childish, or is the other parental?
Treating someone like a child might be an effective way to get them to change their behavior, but it is hell on a marriage. (This is why children shouldn't get married ;D)
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Colleenz
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Post by Colleenz on May 25, 2011 13:56:35 GMT -5
![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/button29934414.png) midwesternjd!
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 18:48:36 GMT -5
By my own rules we should have planned on being there at 8:45 and left even earlier, but this was my COMPROMISE time-- and 8:40 was a hard deadline due to the narrow margin for error. She couldn't even make that. So, I left. Wow. I'm completely amazed that a) you got away with that (if my fiance pulled a passive aggressive stunt like that on me, he'd be going by himself to whatever the recurring event was from that point on), and b) that it was necessary in the first place. Um, sorry- but the person that drags their feet knowing how the other person feels, the person who is consistently late, and/or causes others to be late can be just as much the aggressor.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 25, 2011 18:49:33 GMT -5
Hence my disbelief in your wife as well. You do like to pick and choose pieces from my posts, don't you?
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Post by lulubean on May 25, 2011 19:50:33 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with what WCP did, obviously asking his wife to make an effort for him to arrive to church on time didn't work so he did what he could to make sure that HE arrived on time, which was to leave at the time he wanted to leave to make it to church on time. What exactly is wrong with acting on another tactic if others haven't worked. I would take my DH seriouslyfrom then on and regret that I was making so little of something that was important to him for him to leave without me.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 20:30:07 GMT -5
I don't see anything wrong with what WCP did, obviously asking his wife to make an effort for him to arrive to church on time didn't work so he did what he could to make sure that HE arrived on time, which was to leave at the time he wanted to leave to make it to church on time. What exactly is wrong with acting on another tactic if others haven't worked. I would take my DH seriouslyfrom then on and regret that I was making so little of something that was important to him for him to leave without me. I was really quite reasonable about it. My only regret is that I had been too tolerant and too patient with her over the years. I probably should have made it known it was important to me, but to me being on time isn't something you discuss, it's something you DO. It had been an annoyance for years before I decided for a variety of reasons- my own preference for being on time being at the bottom of the list behind being respectful of the pastor and staff, and the example we were setting for our kids. We were married for 17 years the first- and last- time that I did this. I just put my foot down. I stated that instead of fighting about it, I was just going to get there on time and if she needed to drive a separate car, or stay home- that was fine with me but that it stops next week. For a week straight, I reminded her that I intended to leave ON TIME for church and that meant 8:40 which is what we settled on after discussing AND AGREEING to being on time. On the morning we agreed to leave at 8:40 I think she was getting out of the shower at 8:30 I tried to tell her a few times that morning we were leaving at 8:40 and I got the, "I know, I know...". I got the kids packed, loaded up, and at did the all aboard one last time and I got, "Just a minute". I responded simply, you don't have a minute, I'm leaving...and I did. The following week, and every week since unless we've been sick or out of town-- we've been on time.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 20:35:35 GMT -5
I would hesitate to get sucked into the treating-your-spouse-like-a-child cycle... because it does seem to become a cycle. The spouse being treated like a child is going to continue acting like a child (perhaps not regarding the original subject of discussion, but in another way). The spouse treating the other spouse like a child is going to react in a parental manner - because now the spouse IS acting like a child. And on and on, until it becomes a chicken and egg question - is one spouse childish, or is the other parental? Treating someone like a child might be an effective way to get them to change their behavior, but it is hell on a marriage. (This is why children shouldn't get married ;D) I do regret doing that. I regret arguing, negotiating, discussing, and basically the years of bickering back and forth instead of just being a man in the first place and letting my actions speak louder than my words. My wife isn't a child. She shouldn't have to be 'told' to be on time. She's all grown up, and should simply BE on time. And I should have expected more from her to start with. Ah, well- better late than never.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 25, 2011 20:50:14 GMT -5
Oh wow, this has gotten awesome. I have lots to catch up on but will start here.
...:::"and b) that it was necessary in the first place.":::...
Firebird, the fact that it IS necessary justifies the behavior. I totally agree with Paul that after trying the kind coaxing and the "its really important to me" nonsense, that eventually you just have to draw the line. I think he did the right thing, and deep down his wife knows that too. Otherwise she'd have continued to fight him.
Plus, in this specific example, you are dealing with public embarrassment. Walking in late to your regular crowd (especially as a habit) just makes you look bad.
...:::"but the bottom line is that she just didn't care, and so sometimes you have to demonstrate that YOU care before anyone else is going to care.":::...
This really is it. By continuing to arrive late with her, Paul showed his wife that punctuality wasn't really that important, and worse, that he wouldn't follow through. Once he followed through, he set the record straight.
I don't think it was passive aggressive at all. If this really was a long standing sore subject, and Paul really did say every day that he was going to do it, then she had no business getting mad.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 25, 2011 21:05:49 GMT -5
...:::"Can't people just be reasonable?":::...
Reasonable is as much a myth as perfection and unicorns.
...:::"Because people who are perpetually late don't see an issue with it. YOU are the one making a big deal out of it, not them. THEY think there's something wrong with you.":::...
I think this is the most insightful thing you've ever said, and I agree with it 100%. It extends really to any issue. People think YOU are the one who is wrong when you are a stickler about something they do not see the value in.
...:::"If something really matters to your SO, it shouldn't matter if you completely understand why or not.":::...
I think it all depends on what it requires of the person who doesn't care. Its easy to support an idea. Its quite another to have to do a lot of work to bring that idea to fruition.
...:::"That was mature.":::...
I think it was deserved. Stop for a moment and think about why "I told ya so" is such a hated phrase. In many cases, you only hear it when you did something you probably knew wasn't going to work, and thought you'd beat the odds, and didn't. In cases where that other person's stupid action hurt you (which I'd imagine it did in Paul's case) then just an "I told ya so" is getting off easy.
...:::"I doubt God/Jesus cares if you are a few minutes late for church.":::...
Its his fault for making you that way. Or does he not care because he already knew you'd be late?
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 25, 2011 21:12:23 GMT -5
...:::"On the morning we agreed to leave at 8:40 I think she was getting out of the shower at 8:30 I tried to tell her a few times that morning we were leaving at 8:40 and I got the, "I know, I know...".":::... I know its been said (I know, I know ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ) but I do hate when people live in denial about how long something takes. ...:::"My wife isn't a child. She shouldn't have to be 'told' to be on time. She's all grown up, and should simply BE on time. And I should have expected more from her to start with.":::... DF and I had a disagreement like this tonight... more accurate to say, tonight's was a re-run, the original aired long ago. I did finally tell her that I'm sick of having to act like a parent. She is a grown up. She knows what she wants and she knows what it takes to get it. If she consistently chooses to NOT do what she knows will achieve her wants, then I'm not going to listen to any complaining when the wants go unfulfilled. It worked.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 25, 2011 21:15:22 GMT -5
To play devil's advocate were you watching the kids so she could get in the shower and get ready on your schedule Paul? WWBG try applying that to the bedroom argument lol ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) Lord knows that is a rerun with the same ole outcome. Course I'm not sure she is unsatisfied with that outcome.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 21:53:18 GMT -5
I got up an hour earlier and did everything so there would be no excuses.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 25, 2011 22:07:55 GMT -5
I'm glad everything's perfect in your world. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) To be fair church is one of those things I'd be on time for since you know everyone else is waiting.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 22:10:20 GMT -5
It's a weakness of mine with people I care about. I'm less assertive, I guess on the false belief that I'm being "nice". In the end nobody is really happy- and of course there's nothing nice about it for anyone.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 25, 2011 22:16:06 GMT -5
Psychologists say people who are constantly late have control issues. Maybe that's the only way she feels she has control in this relationship.
DH was constantly late when he didn't want to do something or go somewhere. He never sees a problem with others having to wait on him, yet he hates to wait on others. My solution was to leave without him or go with friends. I only had do that twice. When I didn't know how to get somewhere he thought he had the upper hand. My friends picked me up. The other time I took my car and told him I'd meet him there. He's now always on time when he wants to join me and if not - I go with friends.
ETA: Yes, I realize most people have said all of this already, but I wanted to tell my story anyway. ;D
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 25, 2011 22:26:06 GMT -5
This describes my DW, SIL, MIL and MIL's whole side of the family. They're on "Inlaw's time" and most of the time it's kind of a "ha ha" joke; but as has been observed- it does reflect poorly on them at times.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 26, 2011 7:36:23 GMT -5
Big pet peeve is people being late to church. It starts at the same time each week. It the same people over and over and over again. The ones who have been going there for years. And they have to walk all the way down front to sit with family members. I think the ushers should make them sit on the back row. Keep the back 3 pews empty, direct them there and the only one who sees them is the pastor. Maybe the choir members.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on May 26, 2011 7:39:10 GMT -5
And I get so frustrated when I see that the pew is full and the dad has to make everybody slide over so he can sit on the end. Like the father at the head of the table. You know, it's 1 hour. Sit somewhere else or squeeze past everybody and sit in the middle of the pew. And for heavens' sake, if you have a baby, sit on the outside of the pew so you can get up and leave. You do know what church is, right? Somewhere to be refreshed, somewhere to hear about how to handle your daily life. Take your screaming kid out.
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Taxman10
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Post by Taxman10 on May 26, 2011 7:44:14 GMT -5
:::And everyone knows better than to be late when I'm involved. I have been known to leave without people. For me, it began with church. I was tired of walking in late. It's once a week, and you can't get there on time? You know on Sunday at 10:30 a.m. that the next service is next Sunday at 9:00 a.m. The bottom line, and the unspoken reality was that it just wasn't that important to my wife to be there on time-- so, I started leaving without her. I got ready, rounded up the kids, put 'em in the van and just left.
I had tried all the "be nice" and "let it roll off" stuff I know how to play-- but the bottom line is that she just didn't care, and so sometimes you have to demonstrate that YOU care before anyone else is going tocare. :::
Every sunday morning, I dream, hope and pray my wife will pack up the kids and leave without me......but she always waits for me.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 26, 2011 7:59:22 GMT -5
Big pet peeve is people being late to church. It starts at the same time each week. It the same people over and over and over again. The ones who have been going there for years. And they have to walk all the way down front to sit with family members. I think the ushers should make them sit on the back row. Keep the back 3 pews empty, direct them there and the only one who sees them is the pastor. Maybe the choir members. You aren't CAtholic, are you? The back pews are the choice seats.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on May 26, 2011 8:41:04 GMT -5
You aren't CAtholic, are you? The back pews are the choice seats.
LOL... I remember going one time on a nice summer day and the back 20% of the church had people and the rest of the pews were empty... the priest came out to say mass, then stopped after the greeting and said, ok, we're going to try something new today. Everyone get up and pick a seat in the front. And he stood there until everyone moved up.
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The J
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Post by The J on May 26, 2011 8:41:14 GMT -5
Yet it only became something you "do" once you had your little epiphany. You say right in the first post:
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 26, 2011 8:52:00 GMT -5
...:::"Yet it only became something you "do" once you had your little epiphany. You say right in the first post:":::...
Agreed, and "spend less than you earn" could be looked at the same way.
Though I suspect that Paul finally noticed the lack of respect and opportunity was directly correlated to how people saw him, and making it a point to be on time helped correct that.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 26, 2011 9:13:41 GMT -5
The "control" thing makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it that way. My mom was always late when she was married to my dad. He had the money and I am sure, in her mind, "controlled" everything even though he wasn't a control freak but "he who writes the checks makes the rules," I suppose. Then it was her loss of self after my dad died so everyone waiting on her and catering to her gave her some control back. Now she is VERY unhappily married and the "control" is still there. Others either tolerate or they don't include her which is sad for her but it is her choice. I did not wait for her and therefore did not include her. She was very angry and upset and not one member of my family could believe that I didn't wait dinner 45 minutes for her but I didn't and nobody died over it and she still speaks to me!!!
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 26, 2011 9:43:40 GMT -5
...:::"She was very angry and upset and not one member of my family could believe that I didn't wait dinner 45 minutes for her but I didn't and nobody died over it and she still speaks to me!!!":::...
This is very interesting to me. The woman was 45 minutes late and everyone was sitting there waiting while food you spent hours cooking got cold, and they were all hungry, yet STILL they sided with her in the moment?
Its amazing how some people are able to do that. I won't hijack this thread though, I'll start another, because this topic interests me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 26, 2011 10:10:34 GMT -5
I insisted that we eat and my mom arrived while we were eating dessert. Her sisters and their husbands were just terrified to eat because they knew she'd be mad. I wanted to laugh at the idea of people in their 70's quaking in terror because my mom was going to throw a hissy fit. Which she started to when she saw that we didn't wait and she slammed out the door. Nice try except her husband had the car key and sat down to eat so she came back in, sulked and sniped, but ate and didn't pull it ON ME again. Funny enough, the rest of the family starting waiting like 15 minutes then starting without her. I started a revolution!!!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 26, 2011 11:56:25 GMT -5
Firebird, the fact that it IS necessary justifies the behavior. I totally agree with Paul that after trying the kind coaxing and the "its really important to me" nonsense, that eventually you just have to draw the line. I think he did the right thing, and deep down his wife knows that too. Otherwise she'd have continued to fight him.
I agree. It wasn't a passive-aggressive move, it was obviously necessary - it just came off badly to me, and still does. But if it was really something his wife wouldn't budge on, I can't say he did the wrong thing. I just don't get that mentality.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 26, 2011 11:58:09 GMT -5
Just like a lot of us don't get the mentality that it's okay to be late.
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