How Donold Trump will overthrow the 2024 Election

[swamp]

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 27, 2024 14:32:21 GMT -5 swamp said:

Are you willing to pay the higher prices that come along with hiring citizens to work in the food industry?

The crops don't pick themselves, and the meats don't process themselves. 

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

Illegals will work for less than minimum wage, you don’t have to pay social security, payroll taxes, benefits, or workers comp. 

[Opti]

Aug 27, 2024 17:13:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

white people won't work for FMW, as a rule.

Some do but its in states that their minimum wage either does not exist or is the same or lower than FMW. But it's usually indoor or mostly indoor work like store clerk, stocker, gas station attendant, fast food worker, etc. When my parents were young farms were smaller and some folks picked up extra money helping with the harvest. That might still happen in wine country in CA if bad weather threatens to take out most of that year's crop.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2024 18:08:57 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 27, 2024 17:13:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

white people won't work for FMW, as a rule.

Some do but its in states that their minimum wage either does not exist or is the same or lower than FMW. But it's usually indoor or mostly indoor work like store clerk, stocker, gas station attendant, fast food worker, etc. When my parents were young farms were smaller and some folks picked up extra money helping with the harvest. That might still happen in wine country in CA if bad weather threatens to take out most of that year's crop.

if it does not exist, it reverts to the federal.
so no, that is why i mentioned it.
the minimum LEGAL rate for pay in the US is $7.25/hr
which is below the poverty line for millions.

[thyme4change]

Aug 27, 2024 16:55:02 GMT -5 busymom said:

The cost of goods is mostly pretty simple.  Supply & demand.  The greater the demand for a product, the higher the price.  Other things factor in too, like government regulations, competition (you don't want one company controlling any item, a monopoly isn't good for the economy).  Maybe you noticed how something like the supply chain affected the demand for items like toilet paper when Covid was getting ugly.  But, although the leader of a country often gets blamed for high prices, it's a lot more complicated than that.  We used to go through calculations in economics when I was in college that would make your head spin, when companies would try to calculate the best price to set a new product at.  The optimum price. 


Now, me being me, I never buy new technology.  I ALWAYS wait until the price comes down.   

Costs and pricing are extremely complicated.

[busymom]

If all you have to deal with is supply & demand, it's rather simple.  Have you ever noticed how the price of gas spikes before any holiday?  More people want to travel, so demand of gas goes up, so the price goes up.  It wouldn't surprise me if the gas stations add a few cents to make additional profit on the deal, but if no one wanted gas, the price would fall.  Gas prices were pretty good during Covid, but a lot of folks were staying home from work, so not as much gas was being used, and the price dropped.

[thyme4change]

Aug 27, 2024 19:07:09 GMT -5 busymom said:

If all you have to deal with is supply & demand, it's rather simple.  Have you ever noticed how the price of gas spikes before any holiday?  More people want to travel, so demand of gas goes up, so the price goes up.  It wouldn't surprise me if the gas stations add a few cents to make additional profit on the deal, but if no one wanted gas, the price would fall.  Gas prices were pretty good during Covid, but a lot of folks were staying home from work, so not as much gas was being used, and the price dropped.

Gas is a commodity

[minnesotapaintlady]

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 27, 2024 14:32:21 GMT -5 swamp said:

Are you willing to pay the higher prices that come along with hiring citizens to work in the food industry?

The crops don't pick themselves, and the meats don't process themselves. 

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

Would you catch chickens at night for $8/hour?  How about pick rocks in a field all day?  Maybe lug shingle bundles up a ladder onto a roof everyday?

It doesn't matter if the companies have money to pay labor if there are no employees.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2024 21:02:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

Would you catch chickens at night for $8/hour?  How about pick rocks in a field all day?  Maybe lug shingle bundles up a ladder onto a roof everyday?

It doesn't matter if the companies have money to pay labor if there are no employees.

there are two afterarguments to this one:

1) if you don't have someone who will work for the wages offered, you don't have someone.  and i am not sure that Americans will work that kind of labor for 2x that.  at all.  particularly in a 4% UE labor market.  we are LUCKY to have them.
2) part of why everyone else's life here is so great is because they do that shit work.  we should be THANKFUL for them.  we should be dropping off pizzas to them during their breaktime.  we should be ensuring their safety.

but no.  we want to mass deport them.  makes zero sense.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2024 20:46:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Aug 27, 2024 19:07:09 GMT -5 busymom said:

If all you have to deal with is supply & demand, it's rather simple.  Have you ever noticed how the price of gas spikes before any holiday?  More people want to travel, so demand of gas goes up, so the price goes up.  It wouldn't surprise me if the gas stations add a few cents to make additional profit on the deal, but if no one wanted gas, the price would fall.  Gas prices were pretty good during Covid, but a lot of folks were staying home from work, so not as much gas was being used, and the price dropped.

Gas is a commodity

gas is about as close as it gets to an efficient market.

but even with gas, you have regional variations.  where i live, you can't get gas for under $4.65/gal.  if you drive 60 miles South, you can get it for $4.15.  if you drive ANOTHER 60 miles South, you can get it for $3.65

[NastyWoman]

Aug 27, 2024 5:48:54 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

I've found that these people who excuse Trump's behavior and make a far fetched list of why they hate DEMS sit and listen to those far right pod cast, news stations, etc and have been told over and over again how bad it is.  I've seen up close and personal how angry and bitter they have become.  I used to have Rush on when I was running errands back in the day and that man couldn't sputter out venom fast enough.  I had Mark Levin on during my ride home and sometimes I really thought his head was going to explode.  Now, imagine listening to this day in and day out.  These people are radicalized and full of hate.  Like Trump, their childish behavior leads them to the point of hate anything bipartisan even if IT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY.  

I wish they would all move to Italy!  

What did the Italians ever do to you? Keep them here and out of Europe - along the lines these rabid haters want to keep all refugees out of this country 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 27, 2024 21:02:09 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

Would you catch chickens at night for $8/hour?  How about pick rocks in a field all day?  Maybe lug shingle bundles up a ladder onto a roof everyday?

It doesn't matter if the companies have money to pay labor if there are no employees.

I believe the adage on the old MSN boards was make welfare recipients do the work.

Then we still have an underclass that is virtually slavery in all but name but at least they are homegrown and conservatives like scgal still don't have to get their hands dirty doing the jobs they claim immigrants are stealing from hard working Americans.

You never see the people screaming about illegals rushing to fill those jobs so the demand for illegals/immigrants drops.  Why is that exactly?  Could it be those jobs SUCK? 

My husband used to work for a certain chicken company and the way they treat production and slaughter floor people is horrid.  The curtain really got ripped off during COVID yet still nothing was done.  JBS was caught employing children, CHILDREN as young as 10 years old on the slaughter floor.

All they get is a slap on the wrist.  The company DH worked for made up it's fines in a month just by not giving out raises/bonuses to anyone under the senior management level. 

[pulmonarymd]

Capitalism at its best

[tbop77]

Conservatives can rant and rave all day all they want.  They are the very ones that want to keep them here. A  steel service center in Texarkanna would call every once in a while to let us know they had to shut down for a couple days and not deliver to them  They would be warned (wink wink/nod nod) about an ICE raid and have their employees stay home.  And they laughed about it.  

Face it, neither party wants solutions.....

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2024 10:13:57 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Conservatives can rant and rave all day all they want.  They are the very ones that want to keep them here. A  steel service center in Texarkanna would call every once in a while to let us know they had to shut down for a couple days and not deliver to them  They would be warned (wink wink/nod nod) about an ICE raid and have their employees stay home.  And they laughed about it.  

Face it, neither party wants solutions.....

that is because our government is hopelessly corrupt.

so, rather than trying to fix what is likely the source of all of our trouble, MAGA embraces it.  MAGA wants to remove all obstacles to it's absolute tyranny.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2024 7:57:49 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Capitalism at its best

i hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but if you imagine that the goal of capitalism is to bring back slavery (or the nearest facsimile thereof you can envision), it helps make a lot of trends we see in the labor market, immigration, and labor laws in the US make a lot more sense.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 28, 2024 12:30:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 28, 2024 7:57:49 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Capitalism at its best

i hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but if you imagine that the goal of capitalism is to bring back slavery (or the nearest facsimile thereof you can envision), it helps make a lot of trends we see in the labor market, immigration, and labor laws in the US make a lot more sense.

Capitalism in its purest form is hopelessly unethical. The societal consequences of its goal, maximizing profits, are obscene. Fouled air, water, environmental destruction, and the return to feudalism. The only thing standing in its way is governmental regulation. If you like clean air, water, and our natural environment, you want regulation. Unless you are looking for a conservative, Ann Ryndian utopia, then let us have a free for all

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2024 12:37:15 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 28, 2024 12:30:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but if you imagine that the goal of capitalism is to bring back slavery (or the nearest facsimile thereof you can envision), it helps make a lot of trends we see in the labor market, immigration, and labor laws in the US make a lot more sense.

Capitalism in its purest form is hopelessly unethical. The societal consequences of its goal, maximizing profits, are obscene. Fouled air, water, environmental destruction, and the return to feudalism. The only thing standing in its way is governmental regulation. If you like clean air, water, and our natural environment, you want regulation. Unless you are looking for a conservative, Ann Ryndian utopia, then let us have a free for all

.....and the problem we are faced with in the US is that capitalism has no issue with fascism at all- with tyranny and the trampling of human rights.  this is not to say that capitalism should be jettisoned for socialism.  this is to say that when we put capitalists in charge of government, they will allow the excesses of capitalism (top down management, a tendency to treat resources as targets for exploitation) to prevail.  it is FAR BETTER to have a socialist government and a capitalist economy than a capitalist government and any other kind of economy.  we have yet to learn this lesson.  the 45% still seems to think that if we just put capitalists in charge, everything will be ducky.  that is a fatal mistake that many nations have made.

[djAdvocate]

NOTE TO THE CONSERVATIVES:

be thankful that Harris does not talk like i do. i mean that most seriously. because she would have a wide audience for that talk. and that would pit her against the very real power structure in the US, with results that would be revolutionary.

[djAdvocate]

Sut Jhally said it best a decade or more ago:

the corporate "person" is a sociopath.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

If we were really interested in solving it we'd revamp the migrant worker program to what it was in the 60s/70s so there isn't incentive to stay past your welcome.  Perhaps even make a speedier way to get refugee status/citizenship if you have participated in the migrant worker system for X amount of time.

We'd demand improvements in the work conditions and wages so "'Mericans" would be willing to take the jobs

We'd actually hold the corporations accountable and hit them in a way that it hurts bad enough they stop hiring people illegally. 

And when I say illegal I mean they drive down to Mexico, recruit people and help them forge paperwork illegal.  The plant DH was at was raided at least twice in the time he was there for that very reason.  They just paid the fine, waited a couple months and went back down there to get some more employees.

It's cheaper than hiring Americans and they can get away with a freaking shitload of OSHA, EPA and other violations because these people don't understand their rights and the company holds over their heads that they can be turned in at any minute.

It's awful.  

But that would interfere with shareholder profits and would raise cost of services/goods.  

Can't have it both ways folks. That's not how the economy works.  You want 'Mericans to take the jobs you have to raise the jobs to the standards 'Mericans are willing to work under and eat the cost.

Or you have an illegal underground poor working class doing the work for you while you roll around naked in your stock portfolio forms. 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 28, 2024 12:58:57 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

If we were really interested in solving it we'd revamp the migrant worker program to what it was in the 60s/70s so there isn't incentive to stay past your welcome.  Perhaps even make a speedier way to get refugee status/citizenship if you have participated in the migrant worker system for X amount of time.

We'd demand improvements in the work conditions and wages so "'Mericans" would be willing to take the jobs

We'd actually hold the corporations accountable and hit them in a way that it hurts bad enough they stop hiring people illegally. 

And when I say illegal I mean they drive down to Mexico, recruit people and help them forge paperwork illegal.  The plant DH was at was raided at least twice in the time he was there for that very reason.  They just paid the fine, waited a couple months and went back down there to get some more employees.

It's cheaper than hiring Americans and they can get away with a freaking shitload of OSHA, EPA and other violations because these people don't understand their rights and the company holds over their heads that they can be turned in at any minute.

It's awful.  

But that would interfere with shareholder profits and would raise cost of services/goods.  

Can't have it both ways folks. That's not how the economy works.  You want 'Mericans to take the jobs you have to raise the jobs to the standards 'Mericans are willing to work under and eat the cost.

Or you have an illegal underground poor working class doing the work for you while you roll around naked in your stock portfolio forms. 

Stop being sensible

[djAdvocate]

the last time crony capitalism was this bad was following the Hoover administration. our next president needs to look more like FDR than Hoover.

i will leave it up to the reader to decide who that might be.

[tallguy]

Aug 28, 2024 13:11:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the last time crony capitalism was this bad was following the Hoover administration. our next president needs to look more like FDR than Hoover.

i will leave it up to the reader to decide who that might be.

Donald Trump is just like FDR.  DJT has EXACTLY the same number of letters as FDR does.  That's enough of a similarity, right?

[busymom]

Aug 28, 2024 13:11:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the last time crony capitalism was this bad was following the Hoover administration. our next president needs to look more like FDR than Hoover.

i will leave it up to the reader to decide who that might be.

    By the way, FDR was frequently called a Communist & Socialist by the Republicans back when he was serving as president, and trying to set up programs to help the average American.  Sound familiar?  Sounds like the opposite of progress is Republicans...  

[Tennesseer]

Aug 24, 2024 11:20:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

Aug 23, 2024 19:00:22 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

And yet juries convicted trump. Juries are never involved when no crimes have been committed.

I imagine you will be in attendance for this event.

If it was close by and more affordable I would. 

Trump’s golf club honoring the villains of Jan. 6 is on brand — but no less disgusting
A presidential candidate letting his property be used to host an event that will celebrate a mob attack on police officers is blood-boiling.

Next week, the private golf club that former President Donald Trump owns in club in Bedminster, New Jersey, is scheduled to host a “J6 Awards Gala” to celebrate not the people who defended the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, but the people who attacked it.

Trump isn’t expected to attend, according to reports, even though the Stand in the Gap Foundation, the organization that’s behind the event, boasts that it’s invited him to speak. But Trump doesn’t have to speak for us to link him to this event. It’s being held at a property he owns, and he has been very vocal in his support of the people who brutally attacked police officers in an assault on the Capitol. Last year, he spoke at a fundraiser held at the same golf course in support of the insurrectionists, and he’s hailed the attackers as “patriots” and vowed to pardon them, including those “who assaulted officers.”

And even if he isn’t there Sept. 5, the event’s website promises speaking appearances from Trump allies Rudy Giuliani and former adviser Peter Navarro, who served three months in jail for refusing to comply with the House Jan. 6 committee’s investigation.

According to the event’s website, “the J6 Awards Gala … will honor and celebrate the twenty defendants who contributed to the powerful ‘Justice For All’ song” and celebrate “all J6 defendants who have shown incredible courage and sacrifice.”

A presidential candidate letting his property be used to host an event where a mob attack on police officers will be celebrated as heroic is blood-boiling.

Rest of article here: Trump’s golf club honoring the villains of Jan. 6 is on brand — but no less disgusting

[djAdvocate]

classic trolling maneuver.

[Tennesseer]

[djAdvocate]

i'll take 9, if Beetlejuice is on the in-flight.

[scgal]

Aug 27, 2024 18:00:34 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 27, 2024 16:35:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

There is labor cost either way. Why is that so different

Illegals will work for less than minimum wage, you don’t have to pay social security, payroll taxes, benefits, or workers comp. 

So you ask me that would I be willing to pay higher prices for citizens to pick the food and cut the meat. I said cost is cost. I don't care if the cost are higher hell the cost of food is high period. I has be wondering do you like the cheaper cost? Is that why you support illegal labor? 

[Tennesseer]

Aug 26, 2024 22:43:17 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Aug 26, 2024 9:26:48 GMT -5 scgal said:

Or we have have 45% of the country tired of the the progressive left bullshit this country sliding into. 

    Tired of trying to excuse debt for peoples poor educational choices

    Tired of normalizing transgenderism 

    Tired of convincing the people of the US that nationalism is bad 

    Tired blaming an object for deaths when it is a person fault (people are so fucking dumb on this one)

    Tired of helping other countries out with nothing in return 

    Tired of hearing about climate change 

    Tired of letting people in the country and wasting millions to take care of them

   So yea if someone is running for president and is against some or most of those things which would be against a democrat because they love all that shit. We don't care if they have been convicted of a felony the above mention is worse.

Well said SC. I'm tired also. And as probably the only other conservative on this board I'm with you. I"ll add a few other things to your list.

1. I'm tired of having to be politically correct.

2. I'm tired of liberals using euphemisms for things. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Calling it a merganser doesn't change anything. It's still a duck. Plain and simple.

3. I'm tired of the govt giving away tax dollars to persons who come into the US illegally or use the "asylum" excuse. They know if they say asylum they will be let in and given assistance. And a court date 5-7yrs in the future. How many are really going to show up?

Then don't be. But don't be surprised if someone punches you in the face.