MTG off the rails

[Opti]

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 7:55:01 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Bullsh**.

Pretty much everything that conservatives claim to value was originally a liberal idea.  If conservative ideas had held sway, we would still have feudal lords and vassals, peasants and serfs.  Our society owes its existence to liberals.  You can perhaps by one measure blame a culture that elevates personal freedoms for allowing a "decline", and personal freedoms are ENTIRELY due to liberals, but it's a serious stretch to say that society would be better without those freedoms.

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Is it such a hardship on your soul to call someone male or female because they are transitioning? And if you don't want to bake cakes for the public, its simple - don't open a business baking cakes. 

The insistence from some people we need more and more guns has led to mass shootings at almost any event one can conceive of. Abortion laws in Texas have led to a rise of babies from single mothers. I think both of those are much worse than what you mention.  

[billisonboard]

Feb 18, 2024 6:02:11 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 17, 2024 18:01:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

other than their impossibility in the US for most Americans, nothing.

do you think it is good to idealize things that are impossible to obtain?

It is impossible unfortunately. Not to say it wouldn't be better. It would be great if 1 income could sustain a family. It would be great to have a parent home with the children. I don't want to go back to women not having right and racism everywhere that is not what i'm saying. Women dressing with pearls and high heels is a stretch but look at society no one cares how they go out in public anymore wearing pj's, pants hanging off their ass. There is no self respect anymore. 

Before everyone gets on my ass about some people cannot afford nice clothes etc...I get that but more and more people who have the means dress like shit all the time not the occasional sweatpants and messy bun.  Our society went to shit and we can thank the liberals for that. 

People dressing to meet the expectations established by society equaled respecting oneself? Hmmm.

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 7:55:01 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Bullsh**.

Pretty much everything that conservatives claim to value was originally a liberal idea.  If conservative ideas had held sway, we would still have feudal lords and vassals, peasants and serfs.  Our society owes its existence to liberals.  You can perhaps by one measure blame a culture that elevates personal freedoms for allowing a "decline", and personal freedoms are ENTIRELY due to liberals, but it's a serious stretch to say that society would be better without those freedoms.

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

[Opti]

I'd like to know how this is family values -


In a pool of blood not far away was Rosas’ close friend, Elizabeth “Lisa” Lopez-Galvan, a 43-year-old mother of two and beloved Kansas City-area DJ and radio show host. She had been fatally shot. She was at the rally with a large group of friends and family, including her husband, daughter and 22-year-old son. He was shot in the lower leg and later released from a hospital. Two young girls related to her were also injured.


www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/shock-and-sadness-replace-super-bowl-euphoria-in-kansas-city-one-week-after-the-big-game/ar-BB1islgK

[tbop77]

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 7:55:01 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Bullsh**.

Pretty much everything that conservatives claim to value was originally a liberal idea.  If conservative ideas had held sway, we would still have feudal lords and vassals, peasants and serfs.  Our society owes its existence to liberals.  You can perhaps by one measure blame a culture that elevates personal freedoms for allowing a "decline", and personal freedoms are ENTIRELY due to liberals, but it's a serious stretch to say that society would be better without those freedoms.

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Doesn't your bible teach you to;  JUDGE NOT LEAST YOU BE JUDGED
Seems to me that is what you hate most about liberals.  We see the hypocrisy between what you say and what you do.  

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 10:21:59 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Doesn't your bible teach you to;  JUDGE NOT LEAST YOU BE JUDGED
Seems to me that is what you hate most about liberals.  We see the hypocrisy between what you say and what you do.  

My recollection is that the poster has specifically disclaimed being Christian, so while the term "hypocrisy" is easily applied to most of the far-right, I don't think it is here. 

[scgal]

Feb 18, 2024 9:14:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Is it such a hardship on your soul to call someone male or female because they are transitioning? And if you don't want to bake cakes for the public, its simple - don't open a business baking cakes. 

The insistence from some people we need more and more guns has led to mass shootings at almost any event one can conceive of. Abortion laws in Texas have led to a rise of babies from single mothers. I think both of those are much worse than what you mention.  

Since you brought up mass shootings. I keep saying its the individual and not the weapon. The decline in society has attributed to this. When 1 parent was home usually a more stable environment is the outcome. When I was in highschool several boys had their hunting rifles in their truck no school shootings at the school. I moved to the south I hear it was very similar down here.

Now both parents are working kids left on their own most of the time. The parents don't know what the hell the kids are up too many don't care.  

[scgal]

Feb 18, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:03:31 GMT -5 scgal said:

But it never stopped. Personal freedom to dress like shit. Personal freedom to demand people to call you what you gendar you feel  you are not what you actually are. Personal freedom to demand a person to bake you a cake even if it goes against your personal religious belief. The world turned to shit and is only going to get worse. 

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

[Opti]

I don't think Obama was a failure. 

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

He wasn't one.  His record of working with Congress was not good, but that is primarily (or at least as much) the fault of Republicans in Congress.  He is still rated among our better presidents by historians who make it their business to know.  Obama is considered top-10 or 12.  Trump is bottom-4 and headed lower.  He will certainly end up as the worst in history.  THAT is what failure looks like. 

[Tennesseer]

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

Stop listening to your people. Your people didn't like Obama because he was Black.

[thyme4change]

If we are rating presidents by the offensive things they say about the opposition’s voters - Trump should be on the list of biggest failures.

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 13:40:11 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

If we are rating presidents by the offensive things they say about the opposition’s voters - Trump should be on the list of biggest failures.

No, the historians are rating him based on his job performance, which is why he is on the list of biggest failures.  

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure.

Where do you get this misinformation? Mitch McConnell vowed to make him a one term president and not pass any bill with his name on it. He was a two term president with many successes. 

[pulmonarymd]

Has nothing to do with facts. It is all about feelings now.

[tallguy]

In the 2021 survey, Obama was rated our tenth-best president.  In the ten metrics of leadership measured, five of Obama's scores were in the top 10 of all presidents.  Only one was not in the top half.  His score for Relations with Congress was 32nd, and we already know the actual fault there for the most part lay not with him.  Seven of Trump's scores were in the bottom-five overall, and he was dead last in both Moral Authority and Administrative Skills.  Second-to-last in International Relations.  Third-to-last in both Relations with Congress and Performance Within Context of Times.  His best score in any metric was 32nd, so basically bottom-quartile in EVERY category.  So again, which appears to be a failure?

link

[Tennesseer]

Feb 18, 2024 13:28:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

Stop listening to your people. Your people didn't like Obama because he was Black.

ETA: Obama was elected president twice. The guy you voted for in 2016 served only one term. Lost relection in 2020. And his conduct since losing the election in 2020 tells us everything we need to know it was the right decision not to reelect him and that you voted for a failure-twice.

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 14:04:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 18, 2024 13:28:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Stop listening to your people. Your people didn't like Obama because he was Black.

ETA: Obama was elected president twice. The guy you voted for in 2016 served only one term. Lost relection in 2020. And his conduct since losing the election in 2020 tells us everything we need to know it was the right decision not to reelect him and that you voted for a failure-twice.

Obama won the popular vote in both elections, by a combined total of about 14.5 million votes.  Trump lost the popular vote in both elections by a combined total of around 10 million votes.  A LOT of people knew Trump would be not only a failure, but a disaster.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 18, 2024 6:02:11 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 17, 2024 18:01:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

other than their impossibility in the US for most Americans, nothing.

do you think it is good to idealize things that are impossible to obtain?

It is impossible unfortunately. Not to say it wouldn't be better. It would be great if 1 income could sustain a family. It would be great to have a parent home with the children. I don't want to go back to women not having right and racism everywhere that is not what i'm saying. Women dressing with pearls and high heels is a stretch but look at society no one cares how they go out in public anymore wearing pj's, pants hanging off their ass. There is no self respect anymore. 

Before everyone gets on my ass about some people cannot afford nice clothes etc...I get that but more and more people who have the means dress like shit all the time not the occasional sweatpants and messy bun.  Our society went to shit and we can thank the liberals for that. 

hey

yeah, the 40 hour work week, a living wage (in 1973), child labor and worker safety laws, voting rights, the rural electric and national highway program, etc were horrendous.  we would be better off living like little house on the prairie.  with rickets.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

presidential historians (the experts on the subject) rank him in the top quintile.  he is neck and neck with Reagan.

was Reagan a failure?

[tallguy]

Feb 18, 2024 18:18:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

presidential historians (the experts on the subject) rank him in the top quintile.  he is neck and neck with Reagan.

was Reagan a failure?

I assume you don't want or need to ask me that!  

[NastyWoman]

Feb 18, 2024 14:04:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 18, 2024 13:28:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Stop listening to your people. Your people didn't like Obama because he was Black.

ETA: Obama was elected president twice. The guy you voted for in 2016 served only one term. Lost relection in 2020. And his conduct since losing the election in 2020 tells us everything we need to know it was the right decision not to reelect him and that you voted for a failure-twice.

And just for the record: Obama got the most votes in both campaigns he ran for president- as in more people voted for him than for his opponent. However,  in both elections for president millions MORE people told the world they did NOT want trump as president. If it were not for the antiquated electoral system (yes I know it is the law of the land) the orange paint addict would never have stood a chance!

[happyhoix]

Feb 18, 2024 14:00:37 GMT -5 tallguy said:

In the 2021 survey, Obama was rated our tenth-best president.  In the ten metrics of leadership measured, five of Obama's scores were in the top 10 of all presidents.  Only one was not in the top half.  His score for Relations with Congress was 32nd, and we already know the actual fault there for the most part lay not with him.  Seven of Trump's scores were in the bottom-five overall, and he was dead last in both Moral Authority and Administrative Skills.  Second-to-last in International Relations.  Third-to-last in both Relations with Congress and Performance Within Context of Times.  His best score in any metric was 32nd, so basically bottom-quartile in EVERY category.  So again, which appears to be a failure?

link

The 2024 Presidential Historic organization recently held a vote among their group of historians and they rated Obama at 14th and Trump at dead last. 

Announced on the news this AM.   

I’m sure they’re some commie deep state group, though. 

[happyhoix]

Here is a second group of historians, voting with similar results. Even the conservative historians put trump in the bottom five:

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fox-news-report-on-trump-s-dismal-ranking-gets-the-treatment-from-critics/ar-BB1iv4jy?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=b6ef601ec46e43d1ba9b7327ee7ceeee&ei=15

[tbop77]

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Feb 18, 2024 9:52:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, I will grant you this:  You are definitely a conservative.  What conservatives truly value most is order, and they fear anything that they cannot control.  They are almost maniacal in trying to control everything they can.  Unfortunately, one of the things least likely to give way to being controlled is free will.  That will never stop conservatives from trying, either through legitimate means or otherwise, but those efforts are doomed to failure. 

Back in 2008, Barack Obama sparked outrage with a comment (referring to working-class voters in old industrial towns decimated by job losses) that, "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."  It may not have been advisable to say, but it is true, and also refers back to the same issues of order and control.  Conservatives cling to guns because guns give them the illusion of control in their own lives.  They cling to religion because that allows them to not only view order and control as good, but to abdicate the responsibility for control completely, shifting it to an external power.  They hate those who are unlike them, or who come from somewhere else, because those people disrupt order (or what conservatives view as the natural order of things.)  

Freedom is by its very nature disordered.  Parts of it can seem ugly, but it is far better than the alternative.  Freedom requires much of us as well.  It requires us to tolerate those we disagree with, or who we find distasteful.  Truly, the only way that we can ensure individual liberties and freedoms for ourselves is to also guarantee them for others whether they agree with us or not.  That is where conservativism generally fails.  Conservatives, and especially today's conservatives, generally only care about freedoms for themselves and those like them.  To hell with anyone else's.  That is not a good way to build a society, and will absolutely result in no longer having a free society.  Many conservatives would love that idea, as long as they were the ones in control.  Can't imagine they would love it nearly as much if they weren't.  Better to maintain freedoms for all, I think.

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

I wonder why conservatives have been programmed to have so much hate in their heart, they will not even admit to anything he did that helped them.  Case in point, a friend of mine (MAGA) was laid off in December and was able to obtain insurance for her family for $103/month.  She adamantly denies it has anything to do with the ACA.  Yeah, I was born yesterday.  

[tallguy]

Feb 19, 2024 10:19:23 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 18, 2024 13:08:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

Yet people wonder why obama was a failure

I wonder why conservatives have been programmed to have so much hate in their heart, they will not even admit to anything he did that helped them.  Case in point, a friend of mine (MAGA) was laid off in December and was able to obtain insurance for her family for $103/month.  She adamantly denies it has anything to do with the ACA.  Yeah, I was born yesterday.  

Most are not particularly bright to begin with.  

More seriously, they choose not to be informed.  Wanting to be informed would require taking in different points of view and analyzing them, rather than only taking in one point of view day after day.  Closed-minded, intellectually-lazy people rarely change their mind. 

Liberal thinkers will generally adapt the belief when faced with new information.  Conservative thinkers will generally discard the information if it does not conform with the existing belief.  One of those is a recipe for progress.  The other is not.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 19, 2024 7:36:11 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Feb 18, 2024 14:00:37 GMT -5 tallguy said:

In the 2021 survey, Obama was rated our tenth-best president.  In the ten metrics of leadership measured, five of Obama's scores were in the top 10 of all presidents.  Only one was not in the top half.  His score for Relations with Congress was 32nd, and we already know the actual fault there for the most part lay not with him.  Seven of Trump's scores were in the bottom-five overall, and he was dead last in both Moral Authority and Administrative Skills.  Second-to-last in International Relations.  Third-to-last in both Relations with Congress and Performance Within Context of Times.  His best score in any metric was 32nd, so basically bottom-quartile in EVERY category.  So again, which appears to be a failure?

link

The 2024 Presidential Historic organization recently held a vote among their group of historians and they rated Obama at 14th and Trump at dead last. 

Announced on the news this AM.   

I’m sure they’re some commie deep state group, though. 

It was Biden who was ranked 14th, Obama 7th and trump dead last.


Poll Ranks Biden as 14th-Best President, With Trump Last

President Biden has not had a lot of fun perusing polls lately. He has a lower approval rating than every president going back to Dwight D. Eisenhower at this stage of their tenures, and he trails former President Donald J. Trump in a fall rematch. But Mr. Biden can take solace from one survey in which he is way out in front of Mr. Trump.

A new poll of historians coming out on Presidents’ Day weekend ranks Mr. Biden as the 14th-best president in American history, just ahead of Woodrow Wilson, Ronald Reagan and Ulysses S. Grant. While that may not get Mr. Biden a spot on Mount Rushmore, it certainly puts him well ahead of Mr. Trump, who places dead last as the worst president ever.

Poll Ranks Biden as 14th-Best President, With Trump Last

[happyhoix]

Feb 19, 2024 10:42:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Feb 19, 2024 10:19:23 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

I wonder why conservatives have been programmed to have so much hate in their heart, they will not even admit to anything he did that helped them.  Case in point, a friend of mine (MAGA) was laid off in December and was able to obtain insurance for her family for $103/month.  She adamantly denies it has anything to do with the ACA.  Yeah, I was born yesterday.  

Most are not particularly bright to begin with.  

More seriously, they choose not to be informed.  Wanting to be informed would require taking in different points of view and analyzing them, rather than only taking in one point of view day after day.  Closed-minded, intellectually-lazy people rarely change their mind. 

Liberal thinkers will generally adapt the belief when faced with new information.  Conservative thinkers will generally discard the information if it does not conform with the existing belief.  One of those is a recipe for progress.  The other is not.

I remember during Covid how the scientific advice kept changing, which is what happens when you have a new virus that we don’t know much about. The far right bunch saw the changes as proof the virus was a hoax.

You look at the Covid rates between red states and blue states and it’s obvious which group had the better approach, anti vax and anti mask vs the science nerds.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 19, 2024 11:57:57 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Feb 19, 2024 10:42:23 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Most are not particularly bright to begin with.  

More seriously, they choose not to be informed.  Wanting to be informed would require taking in different points of view and analyzing them, rather than only taking in one point of view day after day.  Closed-minded, intellectually-lazy people rarely change their mind. 

Liberal thinkers will generally adapt the belief when faced with new information.  Conservative thinkers will generally discard the information if it does not conform with the existing belief.  One of those is a recipe for progress.  The other is not.

I remember during Covid how the scientific advice kept changing, which is what happens when you have a new virus that we don’t know much about. The far right bunch saw the changes as proof the virus was a hoax.

You look at the Covid rates between red states and blue states and it’s obvious which group had the better approach, anti vax and anti mask vs the science nerds.

never mind that.  look at the difference between well governed nations like New Zealand and the US.  the death rates in the US were vastly higher.  in fact, fewer people died in NZ than one would expect from seasonal flu, due to mass masking mandates and testing.  in other words, had Trump acted the same way or better than NZ, on MILLION Americans would have been saved.

it is little wonder he is dead last:


www.brandonrottinghaus.com/uploads/1/0/8/7/108798321/presidential_greatness_white_paper_2024.pdf

[tallguy]

it is little wonder he is dead last

I've been telling everyone for the last few years that eventually the historians would catch up with me and put Trump where he rightfully belongs. Haven't I?