I taught my 6-year-old about the Holocaust and got sent to..

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 12:07:54 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I can understand the teacher and principal having questions about the picture. The Mom explained what the Day was and that she’d been teacher her child about their family history, which explained the picture. The principal say it was unacceptable for 6 year olds to know about that. Was that not out of line, telling this Mom that she could not teach her child things that were facts about her family and history? I think it was out of line and disrespectful

If what the mom reports 10 years after the event is a full and accurate recounting of the conversation, it is out of line and disrespectful. The principal coulda/shoulda handled it better.

[Spellbound454]

I've got a different take on this.

Child makes a concerning piece of artwork in School..... and the parent is called in.
All normal practice.

A decade on, Mum has written a piece to voice her concerns about this:-"Since this incident happened with my daughter a decade ago, erasure of the Holocaust in popular culture has only worsened."
and has fairly wistfully described the incident, (and the mother/ daughter dialogue) ...... to arrive at a detracting accusation, that the School was trying to stop her teaching her own kid about the Holocaust.

Seems a bit disingenuous, since they didn't say, "don't teach about the Holocaust".... only that the drawing of dead bodies at 6 was age inappropriate.

The mere suggestion of which, is covered by her own assertations of qualified she is.


Personally I think its a bit wishy washy...... all revolving around an axe she has to grind.

[Spellbound454]

I have read some of her other, what she describes as "Stories"

....and I think this is what we have now, a Story.
A 10 year old reminiscence with a smattering of fact, altered over time to fit an agenda............ which bothers her.

Perhaps the real story is why the teaching of the holocaust has declined.

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 9, 2023 13:28:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I've got a different take on this.

Child makes a concerning piece of artwork in School..... and the parent is called in.
All normal practice.

A decade on, Mum has written a piece to voice her concerns about this:-"Since this incident happened with my daughter a decade ago, erasure of the Holocaust in popular culture has only worsened."
and has fairly wistfully described the incident, (and the mother/ daughter dialogue) ...... to arrive at a detracting accusation, that the School was trying to stop her teaching her own kid about the Holocaust.

Seems a bit disingenuous, since they didn't say, "don't teach about the Holocaust".... only that the drawing of dead bodies at 6 was age inappropriate.

The mere suggestion of which, is covered by her own assertations of qualified she is.


Personally I think its a bit wishy washy...... all revolving around an axe she has to grind.

Regarding what I bolded above, I disagree.

From the OP:

“This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 14:36:37 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Apr 9, 2023 13:28:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I've got a different take on this.

Child makes a concerning piece of artwork in School..... and the parent is called in.
All normal practice.

A decade on, Mum has written a piece to voice her concerns about this:-"Since this incident happened with my daughter a decade ago, erasure of the Holocaust in popular culture has only worsened."
and has fairly wistfully described the incident, (and the mother/ daughter dialogue) ...... to arrive at a detracting accusation, that the School was trying to stop her teaching her own kid about the Holocaust.

Seems a bit disingenuous, since they didn't say, "don't teach about the Holocaust".... only that the drawing of dead bodies at 6 was age inappropriate.

The mere suggestion of which, is covered by her own assertations of qualified she is.


Personally I think its a bit wishy washy...... all revolving around an axe she has to grind.

Regarding what I bolded above, I disagree.

From the OP:

“This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

Yeah, anyone trying to tell me that they knew better than I what was appropriate for me to teach my child about the history of our family would have been in for a very unpleasant next ten minutes. 

I would have gotten myself kicked out of that principal's office after I was done answering her concerns. Probably with the school police officer following behind me.

It's likely that by the time I finished my response the teacher and the principal would have been both crying and seriously reconsidering their career choice.   
 

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 15:54:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 14:36:37 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

Regarding what I bolded above, I disagree.

From the OP:

“This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

Yeah, anyone trying to tell me that they knew better than I what was appropriate for me to teach my child about the history of our family would have been in for a very unpleasant next ten minutes. 

I would have gotten myself kicked out of that principal's office after I was done answering her concerns. Probably with the school police officer following behind me.

It's likely that by the time I finished my response the teacher and the principal would have been both crying and seriously reconsidering their career choice.   
 

Crying?

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 16:08:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 15:54:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Yeah, anyone trying to tell me that they knew better than I what was appropriate for me to teach my child about the history of our family would have been in for a very unpleasant next ten minutes. 
It's likely that by the time I finished my response the teacher and the principal would have been both crying and seriously reconsidering their career choice.   
 

Crying?

Yep.

[Spellbound454]

We might think that we ourselves would be sensible ........ but problem is that sometimes parents do teach their child inappropriate content.

I said this earlier.

  but alas some parents do teach their children hatred.



I'm thinking of the father of the Manchester bombers ...... who encouraged all three of his sons to become terrorists.



School is sometimes the last line of defence against those who would go rogue.

Not everyone can be relied on to get it right.

As teachers we are on the look out for body bruises, cigarette burns ... ..  ..... I don't need to go further, you get the picture.

but it happens.

If there isn't this extra layer of support.... who is going to do it?

[pulmonarymd]

Again, it isn’t that teachers shouldn’t be looking for things. It is that the principal, after discussing this with the parent, still insisted that the discussion was inappropriate. Therein is the issue. Spellbound continues to miss the point

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 9, 2023 16:21:32 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

We might think that we ourselves would be sensible ........ but problem is that sometimes parents do teach their child inappropriate content.

I said this earlier.

  but alas some parents do teach their children hatred.



I'm thinking of the father of the Manchester bombers ...... who encouraged all three of his sons to become terrorists.



School is sometimes the last line of defence against those who would go rogue.

Not everyone can be relied on to get it right.

As teachers we are on the look out for body bruises, cigarette burns ... ..  ..... I don't need to go further, you get the picture.

but it happens.

If there isn't this extra layer of support.... who is going to do it?

I am not disputing any of that. I’m just saying that IMO, once she explained to the principal what prompted her child to draw the picture, an explanation that had nothing to do with anything nefarious on the parent’s part, it was inappropriate for the principal to admonish the parent by basically saying she shouldn’t have taught her child FACTS about history and their family. I believe I’ve already said that I can understand why the teacher and principal had questions.

Did you see where I disputed what you said about the story being disingenuous? Do you agree that you were incorrect with what you wrote?

[chiver78]

she won't. she'll just double down. please don't hold your breath, Pink. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 8:10:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 9, 2023 2:54:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm still getting messages from other people who used this site and have been ganged up on.....and bullied off the board.

You guys cant cope with the differing opinions needed for debate, won't be happy until everyone agrees with you ..... and there is no discussion here.

A non-partisan viewpoint should be broadening....... and instead, its a threat.

As a courtesy, when you quote me quote everything including my moniker and the time I posted it.

When I quote you, I quote everything in the post. Just like I am doing here.

I have no idea you have quoted something I posted because you cherry pick the sentence or two you only want to reply to.

As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

Please stop your attempt to cleanse this board of people who don't agree with you.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 9, 2023 11:48:17 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.



As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

Silencing me, is fascist.
Intolerance, is fascist.
Cancelling, is fascist.
Gaslighting is fascist.

I'm a Liberal, I don't know what you claim to be but calling me fascist-lite is a contradiction in terms.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on.

Who elected you to decide who should, and shouldn't be bullied and ganged up on.
This is nothing worse than playground tactics.

Why frequent a discussion site and not allow discussion. If posters disagree with me, I'm fine with that. We talk, that's how it goes.

I won't light myself on fire to keep you warm. Please feel free to block me or just scroll by my posts.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 20:05:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 9, 2023 11:48:17 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Silencing me, is fascist.
Intolerance, is fascist.
Cancelling, is fascist.
Gaslighting is fascist.

I'm a Liberal, I don't know what you claim to be but calling me fascist-lite is a contradiction in terms.

Who elected you to decide who should, and shouldn't be bullied and ganged up on.
This is nothing worse than playground tactics.

Why frequent a discussion site and not allow discussion. If posters disagree with me, I'm fine with that. We talk, that's how it goes.

I won't light myself on fire to keep you warm. Please feel free to block me or just scroll by my posts.

Okay I wouldn't light myself on fire either but will second your question of why hang oot here and discourage discussion?

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 20:02:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 8:10:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

As a courtesy, when you quote me quote everything including my moniker and the time I posted it.

When I quote you, I quote everything in the post. Just like I am doing here.

I have no idea you have quoted something I posted because you cherry pick the sentence or two you only want to reply to.

As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

Please stop your attempt to cleanse this board of people who don't agree with you.

Don't be so melodramatic.  Nothing of the kind was done, and nobody's complaining will make it so.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 20:42:39 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 20:02:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Please stop your attempt to cleanse this board of people who don't agree with you.

Don't be so melodramatic.  Nothing of the kind was done, and nobody's complaining will make it so.

I think you are missing the trend of what has been happening on this board.

[Pink Cashmere]

I try to have respectful conversations with people I don’t agree with, and am willing to agree to disagree when whoever I am having the conversation with has engaged in respectful conversations, when we still don’t see eye to eye…… as long as they aren’t saying things that I consider really crazy and harmful.

Meaning I can’t have a respectful conversation and agree to disagree with someone that is trying to justify evils like pedophilia or murdering innocent people…… extreme things like that.

I don’t believe my replies to Spellbound454 in this thread have been disrespectful or ugly, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in thinking that.

So I find it interesting that my efforts to have a respectful conversation about what I disagreed about in that one post that I quoted, and my reply after that, have been ignored so far.

I don’t think that any poster here “owes” me a response to the thoughts and opinions I express, even when my posts are a direct reply to something they said, that I quote. But I do find it interesting that when I “butt in” and try to have a respectful conversation in a discussion that a poster has said has been filled with people trying to shut him/her down, that poster does not address what I say or try to have a conversation with ME, when I have made it my business to try to “talk” to them in a respectful manner about the subject at hand, regardless of the interactions they’ve had and feel some type of way about, with other posters here. 

One of the things about how I admit I am very curious about other people…. how they think and what their daily lives are like, is that I am open to considering ideas different from what I am familiar with. That is one of the things I love about these boards, being able to chat and even talk about serious stuff, with people who are very different from me, and whose lives are very different from mine. I feel like I learn and grow from things like that.

But I also feel like that growth requires that I be honest in those conversations, and not try to play word games or whatever if I’m trying to have a real conversation and learn something about other people and how they think and live. But that’s just me, and maybe I’m the dummy. I’ve been told many times that I am way too naive, so there is probably some truth in that.

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 20:49:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 20:42:39 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Don't be so melodramatic.  Nothing of the kind was done, and nobody's complaining will make it so.

I think you are missing the trend of what has been happening on this board.

Why don't you tell me what that is, because what I see is that the only people getting blasted here are the ones who keep saying stupid things, and most particularly the ones who keep dishonestly saying stupid things.  The only people "run off" are the ones who don't think they should be blasted for saying dishonestly stupid things, and leave on their own because they don't like everyone else not blindly and silently accepting their dishonestly stupid things.

There is plenty of room here for good discussion, and plenty of people interested in exactly that.  Problems arise from people interested in things other than that. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 21:08:46 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I try to have respectful conversations with people I don’t agree with, and am willing to agree to disagree when whoever I am having the conversation with has engaged in respectful conversations, when we still don’t see eye to eye…… as long as they aren’t saying things that I consider really crazy and harmful.

Meaning I can’t have a respectful conversation and agree to disagree with someone that is trying to justify evils like pedophilia or murdering innocent people…… extreme things like that.

I don’t believe my replies to Spellbound454 in this thread have been disrespectful or ugly, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in thinking that.

So I find it interesting that my efforts to have a respectful conversation about what I disagreed about in that one post that I quoted, and my reply after that, have been ignored so far.

I don’t think that any poster here “owes” me a response to the thoughts and opinions I express, even when my posts are a direct reply to something they said, that I quote. But I do find it interesting that when I “butt in” and try to have a respectful conversation in a discussion that a poster has said has been filled with people trying to shut him/her down, that poster does not address what I say or try to have a conversation with ME, when I have made it my business to try to “talk” to them in a respectful manner about the subject at hand, regardless of the interactions they’ve had and feel some type of way about, with other posters here. 

One of the things about how I admit I am very curious about other people…. how they think and what their daily lives are like, is that I am open to considering ideas different from what I am familiar with. That is one of the things I love about these boards, being able to chat and even talk about serious stuff, with people who are very different from me, and whose lives are very different from mine. I feel like I learn and grow from things like that.

But I also feel like that growth requires that I be honest in those conversations, and not try to play word games or whatever if I’m trying to have a real conversation and learn something about other people and how they think and live. But that’s just me, and maybe I’m the dummy. I’ve been told many times that I am way too naive, so there is probably some truth in that.

Damn Pink, your posts are wonderful. Please just keep being you and let all the rest of us just play our little games.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 21:12:59 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 20:49:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think you are missing the trend of what has been happening on this board.

Why don't you tell me what that is, because what I see is that the only people getting blasted here are the ones who keep saying stupid things, and most particularly the ones who keep dishonestly saying stupid things.  The only people "run off" are the ones who don't think they should be blasted for saying dishonestly stupid things, and leave on their own because they don't like everyone else not blindly and silently accepting their dishonestly stupid things.

There is plenty of room here for good discussion, and plenty of people interested in exactly that.  Problems arise from people interested in things other than that. 

I read a lot of posts by people saying stupid things. The people I see getting blasted are the ones who say things that don't resonate with the d9minate echo playing in this chamber. I would agree that some of the posts are stupid, perhaps occasionally dishonestly so. But that isn't the main reason for them being blasted.

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 9, 2023 21:16:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 21:08:46 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

I try to have respectful conversations with people I don’t agree with, and am willing to agree to disagree when whoever I am having the conversation with has engaged in respectful conversations, when we still don’t see eye to eye…… as long as they aren’t saying things that I consider really crazy and harmful.

Meaning I can’t have a respectful conversation and agree to disagree with someone that is trying to justify evils like pedophilia or murdering innocent people…… extreme things like that.

I don’t believe my replies to Spellbound454 in this thread have been disrespectful or ugly, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in thinking that.

So I find it interesting that my efforts to have a respectful conversation about what I disagreed about in that one post that I quoted, and my reply after that, have been ignored so far.

I don’t think that any poster here “owes” me a response to the thoughts and opinions I express, even when my posts are a direct reply to something they said, that I quote. But I do find it interesting that when I “butt in” and try to have a respectful conversation in a discussion that a poster has said has been filled with people trying to shut him/her down, that poster does not address what I say or try to have a conversation with ME, when I have made it my business to try to “talk” to them in a respectful manner about the subject at hand, regardless of the interactions they’ve had and feel some type of way about, with other posters here. 

One of the things about how I admit I am very curious about other people…. how they think and what their daily lives are like, is that I am open to considering ideas different from what I am familiar with. That is one of the things I love about these boards, being able to chat and even talk about serious stuff, with people who are very different from me, and whose lives are very different from mine. I feel like I learn and grow from things like that.

But I also feel like that growth requires that I be honest in those conversations, and not try to play word games or whatever if I’m trying to have a real conversation and learn something about other people and how they think and live. But that’s just me, and maybe I’m the dummy. I’ve been told many times that I am way too naive, so there is probably some truth in that.

Damn Pink, your posts are wonderful. Please just keep being you and let all the rest of us just play our little games.

I don’t know what else to say to that, besides thank you for listening to me and being willing to engage in difficult and/or controversial conversations genuinely and respectfully, even when we don’t necessarily see things the same way. 

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 21:44:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 21:12:59 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Why don't you tell me what that is, because what I see is that the only people getting blasted here are the ones who keep saying stupid things, and most particularly the ones who keep dishonestly saying stupid things.  The only people "run off" are the ones who don't think they should be blasted for saying dishonestly stupid things, and leave on their own because they don't like everyone else not blindly and silently accepting their dishonestly stupid things.

There is plenty of room here for good discussion, and plenty of people interested in exactly that.  Problems arise from people interested in things other than that. 

I read a lot of posts by people saying stupid things. The people I see getting blasted are the ones who say things that don't resonate with the d9minate echo playing in this chamber. I would agree that some of the posts are stupid, perhaps occasionally dishonestly so. But that isn't the main reason for them being blasted.

No, those people are being disagreed with.  That's not the same thing.  If they become more strident in their assertions, they may be disagreed with more fervently.  They are still not being "run off" or shut down.  Their reaction is on them.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 22:22:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 21:44:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I read a lot of posts by people saying stupid things. The people I see getting blasted are the ones who say things that don't resonate with the d9minate echo playing in this chamber. I would agree that some of the posts are stupid, perhaps occasionally dishonestly so. But that isn't the main reason for them being blasted.

No, those people are being disagreed with.  That's not the same thing.  If they become more strident in their assertions, they may be disagreed with more fervently.  They are still not being "run off" or shut down.  Their reaction is on them.

I do respectfully disagree.

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 22:30:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 22:22:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, those people are being disagreed with.  That's not the same thing.  If they become more strident in their assertions, they may be disagreed with more fervently.  They are still not being "run off" or shut down.  Their reaction is on them.

I do respectfully disagree.

Well, as long as it is "respectfully" and not "stridently" we can probably leave it there.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 22:53:39 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 22:30:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I do respectfully disagree.

Well, as long as it is "respectfully" and not "stridently" we can probably leave it there.

Likely best before you push your assertion "stridently" as well.

[tallguy]

Apr 9, 2023 22:59:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2023 22:53:39 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, as long as it is "respectfully" and not "stridently" we can probably leave it there.

Likely best before you push your assertion "stridently" as well.

"Fervently", sir.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 23:17:46 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 22:59:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Likely best before you push your assertion "stridently" as well.

"Fervently", sir.

It would I who would need to become fervent if you continued.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 8, 2023 17:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 8, 2023 14:17:12 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"The National Curriculum

In England, by law children are to be taught about the Holocaust as part of the Key Stage 3 History curriculum; in fact, the Holocaust is the only historical event whose study is compulsory on the National Curriculum. This usually occurs in Year 9 (age 13-14)"

www.het.org.uk/about/holocaust-education-uk

Its taught by law to 13/14 year olds through their history lesson.

The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.

You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

the UK has more in common with the US than any other developed nation.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 9, 2023 21:12:59 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 9, 2023 20:49:19 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think you are missing the trend of what has been happening on this board.

Why don't you tell me what that is, because what I see is that the only people getting blasted here are the ones who keep saying stupid things, and most particularly the ones who keep dishonestly saying stupid things.  The only people "run off" are the ones who don't think they should be blasted for saying dishonestly stupid things, and leave on their own because they don't like everyone else not blindly and silently accepting their dishonestly stupid things.

There is plenty of room here for good discussion, and plenty of people interested in exactly that.  Problems arise from people interested in things other than that. 

i agree completely.

it is the DUTY of the tolerant to NOT tolerate intolerance.  
DUTY.
without that intolerance, tolerance will not survive.
it is the tolerance of intolerance that got us Trump.

it needs to stop.

[Spellbound454]

Pink

 I don’t believe my replies to Spellbound454 in this thread have been disrespectful or ugly, and please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong in thinking that.



So I find it interesting that my efforts to have a respectful conversation about what I disagreed about in that one post that I quoted, and my reply after that, have been ignored so far.

Firstly...... I think your posts are wonderful too. Please don't stop doing them, they liven this place up

Secondly, I re-read the article and formulated a reply to you based up "She (the principal) was waggling the paper, so its about the drawing" then thought it sounded a bit pedantic and petty... and you deserved better than that. So have this one on me

The only people "run off" are the ones who don't think they should be blasted for saying dishonestly stupid things, and leave on their own because they don't like everyone else not blindly and silently accepting their dishonestly stupid things.

When people are on different sides of an argument they automatically think the other person is "stupid" .... but "stupid" is subjective.

I have laid out, and qualified my argument here, and don't agree with the consensus.. I'm not wrong, and I'm not stupid....its just another opinion...... So be it.

I don't know why your posters left and am impartial to US politics ... but personally think its a loss to the discussion aspect of a discussion site..... and upsetting, obviously, for those involved.