I taught my 6-year-old about the Holocaust and got sent to..

[Tennesseer]

Apr 8, 2023 13:15:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 13:04:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

We will never know why the child drew the picture. So the why needs to be taken out of the equation.

Should a parent be able to teach their children is really the issue here. So can or cannot a parent teach their own children. Simple answer.

If the parent provided lesson was Holocaust denial and antisemitism, would that be a simple answer?

I don't think that the reported principal response was well done. But school concerns about a student drawing a picture of dad bodies is appropriate. It should have lead to a full discussion.

Principal's reply to mother (from the linked article): “This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

I knew at six years old people died in concentration camps. I had seen pictures. I wasn't frightened or scared. What I did get out of it all was empathy for others.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 8, 2023 17:33:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 8, 2023 13:15:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

If the parent provided lesson was Holocaust denial and antisemitism, would that be a simple answer?

I don't think that the reported principal response was well done. But school concerns about a student drawing a picture of dad bodies is appropriate. It should have lead to a full discussion.

Principal's reply to mother (from the linked article): “This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

I knew at six years old people died in concentration camps. I had seen pictures. I wasn't frightened or scared. What I did get out of it all was empathy for others.

another trait that is adverse to the goals of fascism.

we should all have seen this coming long before we did.

the more i think about it, the more i think that the USA and MANY other nations are in serious trouble.  the combination of information technology and the basic underpinnings of human societies are combining in the worst possible way.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 8, 2023 14:17:12 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Apr 8, 2023 12:13:35 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You know little to nothing.


You worry about your country's lack of knowledge about the Holocaust.

"The National Curriculum

In England, by law children are to be taught about the Holocaust as part of the Key Stage 3 History curriculum; in fact, the Holocaust is the only historical event whose study is compulsory on the National Curriculum. This usually occurs in Year 9 (age 13-14)"

www.het.org.uk/about/holocaust-education-uk

Its taught by law to 13/14 year olds through their history lesson.

The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.

You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 17:33:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 8, 2023 13:15:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

If the parent provided lesson was Holocaust denial and antisemitism, would that be a simple answer?

I don't think that the reported principal response was well done. But school concerns about a student drawing a picture of dad bodies is appropriate. It should have lead to a full discussion.

Principal's reply to mother (from the linked article): “This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

I knew at six years old people died in concentration camps. I had seen pictures. I wasn't frightened or scared. What I did get out of it all was empathy for others.

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

[daisylu]

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:33:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Principal's reply to mother (from the linked article): “This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

I knew at six years old people died in concentration camps. I had seen pictures. I wasn't frightened or scared. What I did get out of it all was empathy for others.

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

I agree with this, but the mom was caught off guard because she wasn't told what she was being called in about. The principal likely had hours or maybe even a full day to think about what they would say. A lot of people have a hard time thinking in the moment when they are blindsided.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 18:07:08 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

I agree with this, but the mom was caught off guard because she wasn't told what she was being called in about. The principal likely had hours or maybe even a full day to think about what they would say. A lot of people have a hard time thinking in the moment when they are blindsided.

I am a former teacher and also a former learning center manager. I am now in (what I consider a semi-retired) a para-professional positi9n in an elementary school. It is a very low pressure job which gives me plenty of opportunity to observe the full goings-on of the cast of characters surrounding me. I seriously doubt the principal had much time to think about this one situation within a typical day.

[daisylu]

Apr 8, 2023 18:32:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 18:07:08 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I agree with this, but the mom was caught off guard because she wasn't told what she was being called in about. The principal likely had hours or maybe even a full day to think about what they would say. A lot of people have a hard time thinking in the moment when they are blindsided.

I am a former teacher and also a former learning center manager. I am now in (what I consider a semi-retired) a para-professional positi9n in an elementary school. It is a very low pressure job which gives me plenty of opportunity to observe the full goings-on of the cast of characters surrounding me. I seriously doubt the principal had much time to think about this one situation within a typical day.

Principal at least had more knowledge than the mom going into this.

[Tiny]

Apr 8, 2023 13:37:04 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 I feel like you are projecting an expected/acceptable emotion on this 6 year old and assuming there's trauma involved.

You think drawing piles of dead bodies is normal for a 6 year old?

I don't know... 

I drew a picture of a cemetery and a procession to a burial in kindergarden.   There may have even been a Dead Relative or two looking on to the new burial.    This is one of many  memories of  learning that it's best to just not tell people what fun thing you did with your family over the weekend when they ask what fun thing you did.      I have a lot of Dead Relatives.   My mom had the tradition of going to the cemeteries and visiting the graves of the people she knew (her parents and aunts/uncles and cousins).  Most of these people died before I was born or soon after.  I was a late in life baby.  I have no memories of my grandparents - most of my first cousins were older than me - as in married and having their own kids.   Anyway my mom would go for Religious holidays, mother/father's day, memorial day, sometimes right before Thanksgiving if the weather was good.... it was pretty much a year round thing (but January/February were often cold and snowy so no visits to the Dead Relatives.).     

Going to the cemetery was no big deal for me as kid (dead people weren't so bad either).  We'd also go to the cemetery when a relative became a Dead Relative (a wake/funeral burial) - there would be a procession of cars and sometimes a procession of people walking behind the coffin at the cemetery and then grave side prayers and then the coffin going into the ground  and then all the adults would stand around and talk - maybe walk around and visit the other Dead Relatives and eventually we'd go to a banquet hall and eat.   At the cemetery while the adults were talking and we were walking around - I and whatever other little kids were there might run around admire the flowers on graves - OR the BEST PART was if we were going past the Chapel on the Hill -  literally it was Hill with a little outdoor area at the top  - a wonderful expanse of sloping manicured grass that you could ROLL DOWN!!  (it would have been awesome for sledding down in the winter - but we never went if there was snow).   I have some wildly fun memories of rolling down the hill in the cemetery in my  funeral finery and trying NOT to be so out of control that you'd roll to curb and into the "street".       

So, yeah,  I drew a picture of a visit to the cemetery in Kindergarten.      I got shamed into never doing that again and to not talk about the Dead Relatives  (even though it is a nice tradition to go to the cemetery and put out flowers or a flag on the veterans graves and to say a prayer and to remember those who went before.) .    I guess  It's rude to remind other people of their own Dead Relatives... I guess because it makes them sad.    And you are not suppose to be mean and "hurt" other people (make them sad).    And what kind of monster would want to talk about their own sadness and their own Dead Relatives in a somewhat not sad way?  Things I learned in Kindergarden

I don't think it's odd or shameful for a little kid to draw something that was part of something at home that falls under "tradition" or "family".... even if it's the hand drawn image of a pile of dead bodies crying tears (as that was what the little kid took away from the story of her families war experience (aka the Holocaust).       


ADDED:   my take away from the story in the OP, was that the teacher and principle were unprepared to deal with a student who brought up something uncomfortable in the classroom because children should learn to never bring up anything that might make others uncomfortable.  So, little kids should NEVER talk about their home life - because something their family does may make other people uncomfortable.    

Yeah, this works ok when your family has some "embarrassing" tradition - like making giant vats of sauerkraut and storing those vats in the basement or if your family roasts a pig (or a lamb) in the backyard for a big family celebration...(there's a pig head involved in this... and there's the joke about the lamb being that annoying large barking dog that's not barking anymore)   nobody really needs to know about this stuff because it will just make them uncomfortable.    

It doesn't work so well when kids are experiencing abuse or maybe something less awful but where they need to know they are not alone (a divorce, the death of beloved pet, something else).   

Shouldn't the people in charge (principles and teachers) have some "script" or something to help get everyone involved thru the "uncomfortable" part of the "art work"  situation?   

[chiver78]

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:33:32 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Principal's reply to mother (from the linked article): “This is not acceptable for a 6-year-old to know about.”

I knew at six years old people died in concentration camps. I had seen pictures. I wasn't frightened or scared. What I did get out of it all was empathy for others.

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

yup, absolutely. but the back and forth is a lot because Spellbound is being deliberately obtuse about acknowledging that things aren't exactly the same in the US vs UK. and she refuses to understand that her experience isn't the same around the world. shocker, I know. 🤷‍♀️

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 18:49:15 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Apr 8, 2023 18:32:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I am a former teacher and also a former learning center manager. I am now in (what I consider a semi-retired) a para-professional positi9n in an elementary school. It is a very low pressure job which gives me plenty of opportunity to observe the full goings-on of the cast of characters surrounding me. I seriously doubt the principal had much time to think about this one situation within a typical day.

Principal at least had more knowledge than the mom going into this.

And as soon as the mom saw the picture she had more knowledge than the principal. I have already acknowledged the principal coulda/shoulda handled her side better. But she might have been caught by surprise by the picture topic.

[Pink Cashmere]

Apr 8, 2023 18:07:08 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

I agree with this, but the mom was caught off guard because she wasn't told what she was being called in about. The principal likely had hours or maybe even a full day to think about what they would say. A lot of people have a hard time thinking in the moment when they are blindsided.

I agree with this. When I am caught off guard by somebody saying something crazy, my first thought is usually (not always) to think “did he/she really say and mean what I think they said and meant”. And when I can catch myself with that thought, I usually respond in a way that they have to either repeat or clarify what they said, and I go from there. But even with that, that’s on a good day and with enough life experience now, to try to clarify things before I react.

When my children were in school, I was always mindful that how I reacted to things when dealing with their teachers and administrators at their schools could have negative repercussions for my children. So my first instinct was to try to play nice for my children’s sake, but still be firm and say what I had to say, while trying to be polite or at least talk like I had some sense.

It didn’t always work out like that though. And there were times I was so outdone and shocked by something that was said to me that I really did not know how to react without being ugly, and in those moments, I was not as assertive as I normally and should’ve been, because it was in the back of my mind that my children would have to deal with whatever came out of a run in between me and somebody that had authority over them every day at school.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 20:12:52 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

yup, absolutely. but the back and forth is a lot because Spellbound is being deliberately obtuse about acknowledging that things aren't exactly the same in the US vs UK. and she refuses to understand that her experience isn't the same around the world. shocker, I know. 🤷‍♀️

I read her posts differently. She is simply refusing to bend in her position that it is inappropriate to teach about the Holocaust to six year olds. I happen to agree with her. Okay, you have a parent who taught it to their child with:

... careful, kid-sensitive scaffolding I built around the historical event that more than any other defines her identity — how I told her that there was a war, in which many people died because of their religion, sexual identity or physical disability; how I read her children’s books that get across the facts in an age-appropriate way, although we did skip a few pages here and there. Books like “The Cat with the Yellow Star” or “Love the World,” which is about a dear family friend, Bronia Roslawowski, who was born in Poland, survived a concentration camp and devoted the better part of her life to teaching the Holocaust to children just like Yael. She also, more than anyone else, taught me that learning about the Holocaust and learning to value life are not only compatible, they are inextricably intertwined. I would also have explained that Yael and I talked about hope — about Jews who resisted the Nazis, and about non-Jews who risked their lives to save thousands of us, including members of our own family. Also, how we talked about why people yearn to live, and how important it is to hug each other every day. Finally, I would have recounted how we discuss the work I have done over the last 25 years with those seeking asylum, and how I wish I could have told my beloved grandfather about it because he sought refuge in America and loved this country fiercely for having granted it.

Totally unreasonable to expect this to be possible for a teacher to do with a class full of 6 year olds.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 17:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 8, 2023 14:17:12 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"The National Curriculum

In England, by law children are to be taught about the Holocaust as part of the Key Stage 3 History curriculum; in fact, the Holocaust is the only historical event whose study is compulsory on the National Curriculum. This usually occurs in Year 9 (age 13-14)"

www.het.org.uk/about/holocaust-education-uk

Its taught by law to 13/14 year olds through their history lesson.

The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.

You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

I was fortunate to have absolutely incredible history teachers in school. How my school district managed to hire such high quality individuals in history but hired total incompetent fools in science is beyond me. I can't recall them teaching me anything in those classes.

[chiver78]

Apr 8, 2023 20:39:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 20:12:52 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

yup, absolutely. but the back and forth is a lot because Spellbound is being deliberately obtuse about acknowledging that things aren't exactly the same in the US vs UK. and she refuses to understand that her experience isn't the same around the world. shocker, I know. 🤷‍♀️

I read her posts differently. She is simply refusing to bend in her position that it is inappropriate to teach about the Holocaust to six year olds. I happen to agree with her. Okay, you have a parent who taught it to their child with:

... careful, kid-sensitive scaffolding I built around the historical event that more than any other defines her identity — how I told her that there was a war, in which many people died because of their religion, sexual identity or physical disability; how I read her children’s books that get across the facts in an age-appropriate way, although we did skip a few pages here and there. Books like “The Cat with the Yellow Star” or “Love the World,” which is about a dear family friend, Bronia Roslawowski, who was born in Poland, survived a concentration camp and devoted the better part of her life to teaching the Holocaust to children just like Yael. She also, more than anyone else, taught me that learning about the Holocaust and learning to value life are not only compatible, they are inextricably intertwined. I would also have explained that Yael and I talked about hope — about Jews who resisted the Nazis, and about non-Jews who risked their lives to save thousands of us, including members of our own family. Also, how we talked about why people yearn to live, and how important it is to hug each other every day. Finally, I would have recounted how we discuss the work I have done over the last 25 years with those seeking asylum, and how I wish I could have told my beloved grandfather about it because he sought refuge in America and loved this country fiercely for having granted it.

Totally unreasonable to expect this to be possible for a teacher to do with a class full of 6 year olds.

I'm not dismissing your anecdote, but she's obstinately inflexible in acknowledging that a parent teaching family history to their own child is okay. Tenn made a similar observation earlier today. she also refuses to understand or even acquiesce that the rest of the world doesn't function the same as her little bubble in the UK.

I'm happy to discuss your points separately, but my comments so far are directly relative to that particular poster's comments.

[Pink Cashmere]

I just replied to that one post and went back afterward to see what all the hoopla was about after I read the first few posts a few days ago. 

So even though it’s not the exact same thing, these are my thoughts.

I cannot remember a time when I was not aware of what being a Black person in the US meant. I can’t say for sure when I first started hearing my Aunt talking about being tear gassed when she was active during the Civil Rights movement. I have memories of certain things, that I know come from when I was a young child, but I can’t say for sure that I was 6 or 8 or whatever years old at the time. It’s not like that was a constant topic of conversation, but those things were parts of my family member’s life stories, and they did come up in conversations that I overheard as a young child. And my family was always very protective with what children were allowed to hear and see, and it was common for us to be shooed out of the room when grown folks were talking or even just having fun and playing card games on Friday or Saturday nights, but apparently not when grown folks talked about those kind of things, because I remember.

I don’t think it’s wrong to have age appropriate conversations about history with and around children. I learned and was told about my family’s history regarding the Civil Rights Movement as a young child, and it didn’t make me be some kind of maniac. I feel like my family members and their friends had the right to talk about and tell me about their experiences and lives, and LIFE, when they felt like I was old enough to understand, regardless of what somebody else thought. They cared more about me and me knowing about the world I was living in, than some stranger that hadn’t been through and experienced what they did. And even with all that I heard and was told, all the horrible things they experienced and lived through…… because of evil white people, I was NEVER taught to hate anybody just because of their skin color, so what’s the problem with what I learned at an early age? 

If we are teaching our children history and about their ancestors, without teaching them to harbor hatred toward the descendants of the people that harmed, terrorized and killed our ancestors for no good reason, and still teaching them to be loving, good people, what’s wrong with that? Genuine question, because I don’t get it.

I remember a poster on the old MSN boards, that was very proud of being a descendant of the “blue blooded” pilgrims that settled in America way back when. When I would comment on posts about my heritage or how I only knew who my ancestors were, going back a few generations, he would always basically say I needed to shut up about all of that. As if him being able to boast about his heritage and knowing about it, was more important than anything I thought or had to say about mine and the parts of it I didn’t know. It obviously really bothered me, since I still remember it all these years later, and even still remember his user name back then.

Why is it okay to teach certain children about their family history and ancestors, but not others? Again, a genuine question.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 8, 2023 21:15:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.

You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

I was fortunate to have absolutely incredible history teachers in school. How my school district managed to hire such high quality individuals in history but hired total incompetent fools in science is beyond me. I can't recall them teaching me anything in those classes.

My favorite high school classes were the history classes.

[mollyc]

I still don’t get the issue with this particular picture. Did everyone look at it? It isn’t “a pile of bodies”. It’s 4 stick people with blue stars and black tears, some brown lumps around the people, black scribbles in the empty space and the words “Ded people. Hitler is bad”. No gore. No stabbing. Without the word, you wouldn’t know the people were dead.

Unless this little girl was telling stories that were freaking out the other kids, I don’t get the principal’s problem. The picture is in a very specific context. It isn’t ambiguous. It isn’t gory. It judges no one but Hitler.

Yes bringing up death and evil with all 6 year olds is probably a bad plan but unless she was spreading stories and fear amongst her class mates, what’s the problem? That wasn’t what the principal was complaining about. She was complaining about the picture.

Would she have called in my classmate David’s parents when he depicted helping his dad butcher some pigs? He lived on a pig farm. It was just part of his life. Maybe they shouldn’t have asked us to do a picture of what we did that weekend.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 8, 2023 21:15:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:41:17 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.

You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

I was fortunate to have absolutely incredible history teachers in school. How my school district managed to hire such high quality individuals in history but hired total incompetent fools in science is beyond me. I can't recall them teaching me anything in those classes.

Side note: I attended Catholic grammar and high schools in the '50s and '60s.

Up until my senior year in high school, the nun teachers wore the old full-length head-to-foot habits. In my senior year of high school, it was the nuns who taught the sciences, history and social study classes who switched to the modern religious habits. The other teaching nuns remained in their 1800s habits.

We discovered nuns had legs!

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 21:56:48 GMT -5 mollyc said:

I still don’t get the issue with this particular picture. Did everyone look at it? It isn’t “a pile of bodies”. It’s 4 stick people with blue stars and black tears, some brown lumps around the people, black scribbles in the empty space and the words “Ded people. Hitler is bad”. No gore. No stabbing. Without the word, you wouldn’t know the people were dead.

Unless this little girl was telling stories that were freaking out the other kids, I don’t get the principal’s problem. The picture is in a very specific context. It isn’t ambiguous. It isn’t gory. It judges no one but Hitler.

Yes bringing up death and evil with all 6 year olds is probably a bad plan but unless she was spreading stories and fear amongst her class mates, what’s the problem? That wasn’t what the principal was complaining about. She was complaining about the picture.

Would she have called in my classmate David’s parents when he depicted helping his dad butcher some pigs? He lived on a pig farm. It was just part of his life. Maybe they shouldn’t have asked us to do a picture of what we did that weekend.

There are enough cases in which educators have had to deal with the guilt of "should have" to make them very cautious. What would be a negative consequence of the principal calling David's parents?

[mollyc]

Apr 8, 2023 22:31:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 21:56:48 GMT -5 mollyc said:

I still don’t get the issue with this particular picture. Did everyone look at it? It isn’t “a pile of bodies”. It’s 4 stick people with blue stars and black tears, some brown lumps around the people, black scribbles in the empty space and the words “Ded people. Hitler is bad”. No gore. No stabbing. Without the word, you wouldn’t know the people were dead.

Unless this little girl was telling stories that were freaking out the other kids, I don’t get the principal’s problem. The picture is in a very specific context. It isn’t ambiguous. It isn’t gory. It judges no one but Hitler.

Yes bringing up death and evil with all 6 year olds is probably a bad plan but unless she was spreading stories and fear amongst her class mates, what’s the problem? That wasn’t what the principal was complaining about. She was complaining about the picture.

Would she have called in my classmate David’s parents when he depicted helping his dad butcher some pigs? He lived on a pig farm. It was just part of his life. Maybe they shouldn’t have asked us to do a picture of what we did that weekend.

There are enough cases in which educators have had to deal with the guilt of "should have" to make them very cautious. What would be a negative consequence of the principal calling David's parents?

A waste of his parents' time.  Especially if they had to make a special trip into the city because they were told they needed to see the Principal but not why.  What would be a negative consequence of the Principal not calling David's parents?

[Spellbound454]

 The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.



You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

I'm still getting messages from other people who used this site and have been ganged up on.....and bullied off the board.

You guys cant cope with the differing opinions needed for debate, won't be happy until everyone agrees with you ..... and there is no discussion here.

A non-partisan viewpoint should be broadening....... and instead, its a threat.

[Opti]

Apr 8, 2023 20:12:52 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Apr 8, 2023 17:53:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And the mothers response was "If my daughter’s principal had asked, I would have explained ...". What a missed opportunity for each to learn from each other.

yup, absolutely. but the back and forth is a lot because Spellbound is being deliberately obtuse about acknowledging that things aren't exactly the same in the US vs UK. and she refuses to understand that her experience isn't the same around the world. shocker, I know. 🤷‍♀️

I'll agree with Spell that she doesn't have to change her mind. Her mind, her choices, I don't have to agree with them much like she's not required to agree with me or anyone else.

[Spellbound454]

 I'm not dismissing your anecdote, but she's obstinately inflexible in acknowledging that a parent teaching family history to their own child is okay. Tenn made a similar observation earlier today. she also refuses to understand or even acquiesce that the rest of the world doesn't function the same as her little bubble in the UK.

Are you having little private conversations with people to plot to get rid of someone else?  ... Ooops....lol

What I do know about kids, from my years and years of experience....... is that they are very similar. Whatever race, colour, creeds.
They have the same developmental milestones, the same, fears, anxieties and dreams.

At a basic level, we aren't so different

 If we are teaching our children history and about their ancestors, without teaching them to harbor hatred toward the descendants of the people that harmed, terrorized and killed our ancestors for no good reason, and still teaching them to be loving, good people, what’s wrong with that? Genuine question, because I don’t get it.

Nothing would be wrong with that....... but alas some parents do teach their children hatred.

I'm thinking of the father of the Manchester bombers...... who encouraged all three of his sons to become terrorists.

School is sometimes the last line of defence against those who would go rogue.

[billisonboard]

Apr 8, 2023 23:56:32 GMT -5 mollyc said:

Apr 8, 2023 22:31:49 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

There are enough cases in which educators have had to deal with the guilt of "should have" to make them very cautious. What would be a negative consequence of the principal calling David's parents?

A waste of his parents' time.  Especially if they had to make a special trip into the city because they were told they needed to see the Principal but not why.  What would be a negative consequence of the Principal not calling David's parents?

Yes, extending it now to a "special trip" being expected strengthens your case it would waste parents time. And I get it if you start with the knowledge that the family business is pig farming, a call would be an unnecessary waste of time. Without that information, you don't know if potentially there is an undiagnosed mental disorder developing. Torture of animals can be an early sign.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 9, 2023 2:54:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 The UK is not doing a very good job of teaching the Holocaust based on those poll numbers regarding knowledge.



You worry about your country. And we will worry about ours. God knows we have a lot of facism developing in the U.S.

I'm still getting messages from other people who used this site and have been ganged up on.....and bullied off the board.

You guys cant cope with the differing opinions needed for debate, won't be happy until everyone agrees with you ..... and there is no discussion here.

A non-partisan viewpoint should be broadening....... and instead, its a threat.

As a courtesy, when you quote me quote everything including my moniker and the time I posted it.

When I quote you, I quote everything in the post. Just like I am doing here.

I have no idea you have quoted something I posted because you cherry pick the sentence or two you only want to reply to.

As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2023 8:10:21 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 9, 2023 2:54:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm still getting messages from other people who used this site and have been ganged up on.....and bullied off the board.

You guys cant cope with the differing opinions needed for debate, won't be happy until everyone agrees with you ..... and there is no discussion here.

A non-partisan viewpoint should be broadening....... and instead, its a threat.

As a courtesy, when you quote me quote everything including my moniker and the time I posted it.

When I quote you, I quote everything in the post. Just like I am doing here.

I have no idea you have quoted something I posted because you cherry pick the sentence or two you only want to reply to.

As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

Thus reinforcing her point, agree or leave.

[chiver78]

I'm not plotting anything, just pointing out that again, you seem to think that the whole world operates as your little bubble does. here in this thread, the one about the Idaho GOP and feminine products, and a few others recently. you dig in your heels and double down on your arguments when presented with facts that don't fit your narrative. 🤷‍♀️

I'd also like to point out that I wasn't even addressing you. but hey, accuse me of attacking or whatever. I'll just continue to ignore you. happy Sunday.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Apr 8, 2023 18:32:08 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 8, 2023 18:07:08 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I agree with this, but the mom was caught off guard because she wasn't told what she was being called in about. The principal likely had hours or maybe even a full day to think about what they would say. A lot of people have a hard time thinking in the moment when they are blindsided.

I am a former teacher and also a former learning center manager. I am now in (what I consider a semi-retired) a para-professional positi9n in an elementary school. It is a very low pressure job which gives me plenty of opportunity to observe the full goings-on of the cast of characters surrounding me. I seriously doubt the principal had much time to think about this one situation within a typical day.

[Spellbound454]

 As for you positions on many subjects here, I believe most posters are on the opposite side of your position(s). I would call you facist-lite but then you would claim I am insulting you so I won't.



As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on. Many were racists, mysogynists, homophobes and anti civil and human rights. Maybe you and them should start your own board. Proboards' techs are more than willing to help you and the others out.

Silencing me, is fascist.
Intolerance, is fascist.
Cancelling, is fascist.
Gaslighting is fascist.

I'm a Liberal, I don't know what you claim to be but calling me fascist-lite is a contradiction in terms.

As for the posters you are supposedly in touch with who state they were bullied and ganged up on probably deserved to be ganged up on.

Who elected you to decide who should, and shouldn't be bullied and ganged up on.
This is nothing worse than playground tactics.

Why frequent a discussion site and not allow discussion. If posters disagree with me, I'm fine with that. We talk, that's how it goes.

[Pink Cashmere]

I can understand the teacher and principal having questions about the picture. The Mom explained what the Day was and that she’d been teacher her child about their family history, which explained the picture. The principal say it was unacceptable for 6 year olds to know about that. Was that not out of line, telling this Mom that she could not teach her child things that were facts about her family and history? I think it was out of line and disrespectful