Are You the Same Person?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 27, 2022 1:23:20 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 26, 2022 13:21:34 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I still don't get why I'm not protected when I have been vaccinated. That just makes no sense to me. I do understand how annoying it is to have Covid patients using up all the resources at the hospital. But the fact that I'm not protected if I'm vaccinated really does not make sense.

Because the virus has mutated from its original form.  While there is partial protection right now, it is protecting from hospitalization and death.  When science catches up to the mutations……and we are on our 4th one in 2 years……then we might see fewer cases in immunized people.

Again, this is the reason why we get flu vaccines every years…..and why there are multiple strains (used to be 3, now 4 I believe) in each vaccine.

This isn’t a hard concept.  Coronavirus is different from others.  Some mutate a lot, some very little.  Science has to adjust, which has thrown a monkey wrench it things.  So as a result, we have to figure out how to make a better vaccine.  In the meantime, fewer people are dying with what we have.  That’s a good thing.

I think a huge problem is people are seeing the scientific process in real time.

When you.see the shiny drug ad it doesn't share all the background work. I read a paper it doesn't tell me how many times the Postdoc had to change course before the method worked.

Add in it all became political fodder instead of our leaders actually...leading.

I'll give Biden credit he does his best to communicate. But the damage was done. We were off the rails when injecting bleach came up for debate.

Now everything is "proof" scientists are idiots not to be trusted. It can't be we are watching science work in real time.

I could write a novel on how beuacracy, politics and money hamper research. Nobody was going to give cold viruses a major cash infusion when there are other hot trendy diseases to give money to.

The vaccines are what happens when that red tape is gone and money is handed over. Research that's been plodding for years can now be finished. When people all over the world are given the green light to freely.share data shit gets done.

A coworker of mine used to work in Ebola. Government showed up one day with.a blank check. Work that had up till then taken five years got done in less than t
One because they didn't have to stop and wait for funds. They could pay people and buy whateverthey needed immediately rather than wait tillthenext grant cycle..

It wasn't a mass conspiracy. It's what you get when people stop batching about their tax dollars going to playing with fruit flies and realize oh shit maybe society actually needs people like me.

[pulmonarymd]

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 27, 2022 15:44:39 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Apr 26, 2022 15:55:41 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

GOOOOD GRIEF!

I guess another way that I have changed is that I’m fucking tired of talking about the vaccines. I have some of the same concerns and questions as laterbloomer , but I decided a long time ago that it’s best for me to not even voice those concerns or ask those questions, because I’ll just be told how stupid I am for having questions and concerns. I refuse IRL to even discuss the vaccines, unless I am dealing with someone that has the right to know my status because I am entering their place of business or their homes. 

We have several other threads discussing the vaccines and whatnot, I’m not sure how this thread became focused on the same old shit.

Yeah, that!

I am amazed I able to function in every day life. I do my job, pay my bills, contribute to society, but on these very boards, I am told how stupid I am.

Only when you say stupid shit about a subject you know very little about and argue with people who do have significant knowledge about that subject. Yes, then you are stupid.

[tallguy]

[Deleted]

Apr 27, 2022 16:11:01 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 27, 2022 15:44:39 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Yeah, that!

I am amazed I able to function in every day life. I do my job, pay my bills, contribute to society, but on these very boards, I am told how stupid I am.

Only when you say stupid shit about a subject you know very little about and argue with people who do have significant knowledge about that subject. Yes, then you are stupid.

You are so stupid you don't know s#it about income taxes.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 28, 2022 8:16:34 GMT -5 @Deleted said:

Apr 27, 2022 16:11:01 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Only when you say stupid shit about a subject you know very little about and argue with people who do have significant knowledge about that subject. Yes, then you are stupid.

You are so stupid you don't know s#it about income taxes.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

.

Your right. I know something about income taxes, but because I recognize my limitations, I get professional help to understand it better and to better plan for my future.

Not sure how what was posted was supposed to be insulting, but whatever

[moon/Laura]

REMINDER TO ALL - name calling is not allowed, nor are insults. You may say that someone's way of thinking is stupid but you may NOT call the person themself stupid. I understand that this is a frustrating topic and I'm floored by the way some people think myself, but that doesn't excuse the way I've been seeing people speak to one another.

~ moon/Laura

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think the problem with the educating yourself stance is the majority of people don't know where to look.

I'm far from an expert on mRNA technology BUT I know where to go to find people who are.

The internet makes that possible but the downside is it also gives millions of people with agendas the ability to present themselves as experts.

Even professionals get tripped up by the fake journals popping up like weeds.



Fauci has forgotten more about disease than I will ever learn. I am going to trust him on that subject.

If he starts talking climate change I'll listen but it's going to be with a bigger grain of salt because he's not a climate expert.

Demon doctor has an MD but that does not make her an infectious disease expert. Yet I see her held up as "proof" the experts are lying because she's "equally" educated and says the opposite.

Not all sources are equal. Unfortunately it's during a pandemic we're trying to learn this.

[haapai]

I've learned another thing on this thread -- why I went mute at work. 

It was a disastrous choice both for my mental health and my position in the pecking order at work.  I've been beating myself up for it for a while.  Mostly, I've been telling myself that it was a cowardly choice.  I'm not so sure of that now. 

It may have been a very wise choice.  I cannot get involved in exchanges like what just happened above while at work.  There would be adverse consequences for me. 

At work there would be no transcript showing who first used the word "stupid" and who took the bait.  The odds of me being splattered in $#8! merely for being in the room are high, especially when you have anti-vax managers. 

[raeoflyte]

On the original question...I am just plain out of patience.  A small example -- I had to call our help desk at work -- a job I used to do, and I was so frustrated I know it came through in my tone.  I can blame the person on the phone (2 people actually) and I do think being more proactive on their end would have made it process faster and easier, but at the same time this isn't something that should be more than a blip on my radar.  I don't think I got so frustrated so quickly 2 years ago.  

Askamanager.com has a question today if rudeness has increased in your workplace and the answers are interesting.  

I really, really try to put on my best face when interacting with people these days because I know things are hard for everyone, but I obviously failed at work today.  I think online interactions are even more strained.  It's so easy to devolve into a fight where I used to feel like things were a conversation.  I try to back off on the boards when I start to feel snippy, but you're all a big part of my social life so I usually fail at unplugging for any real length of time.  

Obviously lots of external pressures the last couple years.  But personally my life is pretty darn easy so I don't know why I'm walking on the line of losing it so often.  My kids are old enough to be fairly independent and young enough to still like me/hanging out.  I have the best familial support system a person could have.  My parents are still healthy.  I wish they could do more and feel safe, but we see each other now.  I go through gratefuls with dd each night.  I'm exercising and reading and getting in more me time than I have in I don't know how long.  I have a hard time saying what I'm feeling these days is because of the last 2 years.  Maybe it's burnout, maybe its a borderline depression- although I take wellbutrin for off label use to reduce cravings so I should have some extra protection in there, or early mid life crisis. I have a coworker who I used to supervise and she frequently comments how different I am now as a peer compared to when she started.  A lot of that is being out of management.  I think I'm still a good employee, but I no longer represent the company the same way or have to get other people's buy in.  But some of it definitely comes down to a pervasive distrustful or bad attitude.  And I want to shake that.  

[saveinla]

I think I am in the same boat raeoflyte. I am trying to be better, but sometimes I cannot help but be snarky.

We were told that our promotions are being held off due to us not having a proper head of our department - I just asked my boss if it meant that I can hold off doing my job until then.

[scgal]

Apr 26, 2022 14:43:55 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 26, 2022 13:23:02 GMT -5 scgal said:

I would disagree. It may not be logical but it still can be a legitimate reason to that person. What you are saying is as long as there is scientific proof that shows the opposite of the concern then then its illegitimate. That is false statement in itself as we all see that science keeps evolving on this issue.

Sorry, not every concern is legitimate. If they are factually wrong, the are illegitimate. Vaccines do not cause autism. Anyone who has a "concern" that it does has an illegitimate concern. There was no significant voter fraud in 2020. Thinking otherwise is illegitimate.

Bending over backwards to mollify people with false/illegitimate beliefs has ben a significant negative for society. People who continue to believe and push things that are not true should not be accommodated. And just because science evolves does not make wrong ideas any less wrong(see vaccines and autism).

I now see where you are coming from. You only consider something legitimate if there is a fact basis to back it up. I would disagree. What one would consider fact can change from one person perspective to another. I'm sure there was voter fraud on both sides I highly doubt it was significant for any one party but that would also suggest if there is voter fraud then there is a legitimate concern about it. That is something that I am concerned about. 
I agree about pushing things not true, but that also should include not believing someone did something wrong if it wasn't proven in a court of law shouldn't it?

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 28, 2022 19:17:08 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2022 14:43:55 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sorry, not every concern is legitimate. If they are factually wrong, the are illegitimate. Vaccines do not cause autism. Anyone who has a "concern" that it does has an illegitimate concern. There was no significant voter fraud in 2020. Thinking otherwise is illegitimate.

Bending over backwards to mollify people with false/illegitimate beliefs has ben a significant negative for society. People who continue to believe and push things that are not true should not be accommodated. And just because science evolves does not make wrong ideas any less wrong(see vaccines and autism).

I now see where you are coming from. You only consider something legitimate if there is a fact basis to back it up. I would disagree. What one would consider fact can change from one person perspective to another. I'm sure there was voter fraud on both sides I highly doubt it was significant for any one party but that would also suggest if there is voter fraud then there is a legitimate concern about it. That is something that I am concerned about. 
I agree about pushing things not true, but that also should include not believing someone did something wrong if it wasn't proven in a court of law shouldn't it?

Facts do not change. Interpretation of those facts change. But facts are facts.

The concern regarding voter fraud is unwarranted. The number of cases is not worth the time, effort, or energy that has been spent on it. It is a fraction of 1% of the votes cast. We should be focusing our effort on something much more significant.

Trump and his administration coined the term “alternative facts”. You seem to believe in such thing. Sorry, I go not agree

[NastyWoman]

Apr 28, 2022 18:27:02 GMT -5 saveinla said:

I think I am in the same boat raeoflyte . I am trying to be better, but sometimes I cannot help but be snarky.

We were told that our promotions are being held off due to us not having a proper head of our department - I just asked my boss if it meant that I can hold off doing my job until then.

My loss of patience has definitely resulted in my snarky coming out more often. However this thread has "forced" me to think about how I feel about that. Especia!ly the vax/anti vax discussion and I have concluded that I don't WANT my more patient self to make a full  comeback. I have come reluctantly to the conclusion that people with an opposing viewpoint often take my not engaging in a discussion as something close to me agreeing with them. Or if not outright agreeing at least seeing a lot of positive points in whatever they are saying. 

I still don't want to fight over everything but I also won't stay quiet just to preserve the peace anymore if the issue warrants it. Now if others make the arguments for me I will still try to stay on the sidelines. In other words: I changed but I don't regret all of that change - just some of it

[scgal]

Apr 28, 2022 19:23:31 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 28, 2022 19:17:08 GMT -5 scgal said:

I now see where you are coming from. You only consider something legitimate if there is a fact basis to back it up. I would disagree. What one would consider fact can change from one person perspective to another. I'm sure there was voter fraud on both sides I highly doubt it was significant for any one party but that would also suggest if there is voter fraud then there is a legitimate concern about it. That is something that I am concerned about. 
I agree about pushing things not true, but that also should include not believing someone did something wrong if it wasn't proven in a court of law shouldn't it?

Facts do not change. Interpretation of those facts change. But facts are facts.

The concern regarding voter fraud is unwarranted. The number of cases is not worth the time, effort, or energy that has been spent on it. It is a fraction of 1% of the votes cast. We should be focusing our effort on something much more significant.

Trump and his administration coined the term “alternative facts”. You seem to believe in such thing. Sorry, I go not agree

no alternative facts here. I'm just saying that if I don't believe one way and facts support it and someone else believes another with no factual basis that doesn't mean their concern is illegitimate.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2022 5:56:48 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 28, 2022 19:23:31 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Facts do not change. Interpretation of those facts change. But facts are facts.

The concern regarding voter fraud is unwarranted. The number of cases is not worth the time, effort, or energy that has been spent on it. It is a fraction of 1% of the votes cast. We should be focusing our effort on something much more significant.

Trump and his administration coined the term “alternative facts”. You seem to believe in such thing. Sorry, I go not agree

no alternative facts here. I'm just saying that if I don't believe one way and facts support it and someone else believes another with no factual basis that doesn't mean their concern is illegitimate.

Yes, it does. All those people who “concerned” the election was stolen, despite facts that prove otherwise, have illegitimate concerns. To brlieve otherwise leads us to the world of alternative facts.

The earth revolves around the sun.
Biden won the 2020 election fairly
The coronavirus vaccine have saved hundreds of thousands lives, prevented millions of deaths, and are safe and effective

To believe that those facts are in dispute is to live in an alternate reality, and their concerns are illegitimate. The biggest problem we have in this country is the inability to even agree on reality right now

[scgal]

Apr 29, 2022 6:23:47 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 29, 2022 5:56:48 GMT -5 scgal said:

no alternative facts here. I'm just saying that if I don't believe one way and facts support it and someone else believes another with no factual basis that doesn't mean their concern is illegitimate.

Yes, it does. All those people who “concerned” the election was stolen, despite facts that prove otherwise, have illegitimate concerns. To brlieve otherwise leads us to the world of alternative facts.

The earth revolves around the sun.
Biden won the 2020 election fairly
The coronavirus vaccine have saved hundreds of thousands lives, prevented millions of deaths, and are safe and effective

To believe that those facts are in dispute is to live in an alternate reality, and their concerns are illegitimate. The biggest problem we have in this country is the inability to even agree on reality right now

Most of that is relative to the person
The earth absolutely
Biden won the election fairly (was their fraud absolutely on both sides every election)
The vaccine absolutely saved lives, effective yes, but safe? Who knows probably 99% yes but people have a legitimate concern for that 1%.

I don't think its about agreeing on reality as much as people demanding everyone seeing things as they do and how dare they question it. 

[chiver78]

anyone else hearing Bill Clinton as you read the mental gymnastics here? oy.

[finnime]

We are, none of us, the same person as we were 3 or 4 years ago. Whether we were immersed in Covid and fighting furious battles with it, like pulmonarymd, or only peripherally affected, like minnesotapaintlady, we each saw vast changes in the world. News became all about Covid even during a contentious election that still is being fought. Shortages of food, technology and other items; people responding or ignoring mandates or recommendations to mask, to stay 6 feet apart, to wash hands; health and politics and science and religion; children going to school and workers going to the office versus staying home for school or work, all exacted pressure on whatever our lives included.

Life continued, of course. Marriages and divorces, house buying and selling, children growing, work or volunteering or leisure activities all were now under pressure, experienced through a different lens. No matter how many people you knew died or survived or never got sick, life kept bubbling through and of course you changed as the pressure of an immense societal change pushed through.

Pressure cookers both tenderize and infuse their contents with flavor. We have been in a pressure cooker.

I now see that returning to 'normal' is an empty hope. I won't take some things for granted any more. I will take a more active and vocal stand on certain matters and let other things go much more freely. I will make it a point to stay in touch with people with whom I've not been as close as I would have wanted. I am less forgiving of hatred. I am more open to faith. I hope that everyone I love thrives and prospers in times to come.

[TheOtherMe]

Apr 29, 2022 7:36:01 GMT -5 finnime said:

I now see that returning to 'normal' is an empty hope. I won't take some things for granted any more. I will take a more active and vocal stand on certain matters and let other things go much more freely. I will make it a point to stay in touch with people with whom I've not been as close as I would have wanted. I am less forgiving of hatred. I am more open to faith. I hope that everyone I love thrives and prospers in times to come.

DN1 and wife asked me yesterday why I won't go to the family reunion.  Well, most of my cousins are anti-vaxxers.  I don't care that it's outside.  I don't want to be around people who have done those mental gymnastics.

No, the world will never be what we considered to be "normal" again.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I read an article on CNN about people struggling with shorter tempers and lack of focus and not understanding why because they didn't lose a job,a loved one, never got sick etc.

It's because for 2 years the entire world has been in a giant anxiety attack.

Our wiring is programmed such that if a Saber tooth tiger is outside our cave we don't sleep till our brain receives signals It's gone. Then our brain starts shutting things down and we go to sleep.

A pandemic doesn't work that way so.for two years our brains have been obsessed with identifying the threat and trying to contain it
That much constant anxiety can permanently rewire your brain. It makes it hard to focus on that Excel sheet because who cares DANGER.

It makes you more irritable because you're brain is working over here so no Janet I am not in the mood to hear about how Kim microwaved fish in the lunchroom.

It makes you seek out stuff you can control. I can't control a virus but I can control how much TP I buy.

Throw in Trump, January 6th, climate change, a war in Ukraine and its honestly surprising the human race hasn't had a collective heart attack.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2022 6:35:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 29, 2022 6:23:47 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yes, it does. All those people who “concerned” the election was stolen, despite facts that prove otherwise, have illegitimate concerns. To brlieve otherwise leads us to the world of alternative facts.

The earth revolves around the sun.
Biden won the 2020 election fairly
The coronavirus vaccine have saved hundreds of thousands lives, prevented millions of deaths, and are safe and effective

To believe that those facts are in dispute is to live in an alternate reality, and their concerns are illegitimate. The biggest problem we have in this country is the inability to even agree on reality right now

Most of that is relative to the person
The earth absolutely
Biden won the election fairly (was their fraud absolutely on both sides every election)
The vaccine absolutely saved lives, effective yes, but safe? Who knows probably 99% yes but people have a legitimate concern for that 1%.

I don't think its about agreeing on reality as much as people demanding everyone seeing things as they do and how dare they question it. 

Facts are not relative. The are either true or not. You want to have it both ways.

The vaccines are safe and effective. Not only that, they are safer than most things people do not even have a concern about. Tylenol is OTC. It is safe. It is also the most common cause of suicide in Great Britain, and can cause liver failure. Yet everyone has given it to their children for fevers without even thinking twice. Tylenol does not save lives or alter disease, it just improves our quality of life. Yet its being on the market is not controversial. The nonsense about the vaccines is not about the vaccine itself, but based on nonsensical beliefs and politics.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 29, 2022 7:52:45 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 29, 2022 6:35:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

Most of that is relative to the person
The earth absolutely
Biden won the election fairly (was their fraud absolutely on both sides every election)
The vaccine absolutely saved lives, effective yes, but safe? Who knows probably 99% yes but people have a legitimate concern for that 1%.

I don't think its about agreeing on reality as much as people demanding everyone seeing things as they do and how dare they question it. 

Facts are not relative. The are either true or not. You want to have it both ways.

The vaccines are safe and effective. Not only that, they are safer than most things people do not even have a concern about. Tylenol is OTC. It is safe. It is also the most common cause of suicide in Great Britain, and can cause liver failure. Yet everyone has given it to their children for fevers without even thinking twice. Tylenol does not save lives or alter disease, it just improves our quality of life. Yet its being on the market is not controversial. The nonsense about the vaccines is not about the vaccine itself, but based on nonsensical beliefs and politics.

OT but speaking of Tylenol you're right there. I view it and ibuprofen a lot more carefully.

But pot is illegal. That was what got me questioning my zero tolerance stance on drugs.

That and an excellent lay out of caffeine a how it's a mind altering substance we use every day, we even give it to kids.

[chiver78]

Apr 29, 2022 7:52:04 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I read an article on CNN about people struggling with shorter tempers and lack of focus and not understanding why because they didn't lose a job, a loved one, never got sick etc.

It's because for 2 years the entire world has been in a giant anxiety attack.

Our wiring is programmed such that if a Saber tooth tiger is outside our cave we don't sleep till our brain receives signals It's gone. Then our brain starts shutting things down and we go to sleep.

A pandemic doesn't work that way so.for two years our brains have been obsessed with identifying the threat and trying to contain it
That much constant anxiety can permanently rewire your brain. It makes it hard to focus on that Excel sheet because who cares DANGER.

It makes you more irritable because you're brain is working over here so no Janet I am not in the mood to hear about how Kim microwaved fish in the lunchroom.

It makes you seek out stuff you can control. I can't control a virus but I can control how much TP I buy.

Throw in Trump, January 6th, climate change, a war in Ukraine and its honestly surprising the human race hasn't had a collective heart attack.

I've had several conversations with friends about this, from exactly this angle. I've been very lucky, I am able to WFH. I have avoided getting sick, I've "only" lost one friend to the virus, and my livelihood hasn't suffered from losing my job. so many people had things so much worse, so I feel like a giant asshole complaining about anything. my patience is definitely shorter, especially for things that are unnecessarily stupid or people being rude. 

[teen persuasion]

Apr 28, 2022 19:35:29 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Apr 28, 2022 18:27:02 GMT -5 saveinla said:

I think I am in the same boat raeoflyte . I am trying to be better, but sometimes I cannot help but be snarky.

We were told that our promotions are being held off due to us not having a proper head of our department - I just asked my boss if it meant that I can hold off doing my job until then.

My loss of patience has definitely resulted in my snarky coming out more often. However this thread has "forced" me to think about how I feel about that. Especia!ly the vax/anti vax discussion and I have concluded that I don't WANT my more patient self to make a full  comeback. I have come reluctantly to the conclusion that people with an opposing viewpoint often take my not engaging in a discussion as something close to me agreeing with them. Or if not outright agreeing at least seeing a lot of positive points in whatever they are saying. 

I still don't want to fight over everything but I also won't stay quiet just to preserve the peace anymore if the issue warrants it. Now if others make the arguments for me I will still try to stay on the sidelines. In other words: I changed but I don't regret all of that change - just some of it

The part I bolded is where I am, too.

Visiting with family for Easter, Covid was eventually a topic of conversation if only because one brother and his wife were still quarantining from their mild cases of it.  It becomes a bit contentious as mom and sis (and her boys) won't get vaxxed, think the vax is worse than the disease, every death is reported as Covid even if it's not really (car accident), etc.  Dad stays out of it, my DH did too, rather than stir up hard feelings.  But I can't just let the untruths stand.  I have to say, "no, that's not true, and everyone does NOT believe that."  DS2 was right there with me, sometimes before me and I was backing him up.  He's pretty passionate about calling out the falsehoods, in fact he was reluctant to attend Easter with the family because he didn't want to upset anyone, knowing he couldn't stay silent about it.

That's why we are speaking out, even if it hurts a bit - because keeping quiet to keep the peace is worse.  Either we have to distance ourselves from those we love, rather than inflict discomfort by damaging their erroneous beliefs, or we have to live with the continued growth of these blatant lies, because no one challenges them.

We've collectively already tried to outwait the lies, hoping common sense would reemerge.  The lies are growing stronger.  It's time to call the lies out, repeatedly, nicely, but firmly. No, that is NOT true.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 29, 2022 8:16:51 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Apr 28, 2022 19:35:29 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

My loss of patience has definitely resulted in my snarky coming out more often. However this thread has "forced" me to think about how I feel about that. Especia!ly the vax/anti vax discussion and I have concluded that I don't WANT my more patient self to make a full  comeback. I have come reluctantly to the conclusion that people with an opposing viewpoint often take my not engaging in a discussion as something close to me agreeing with them. Or if not outright agreeing at least seeing a lot of positive points in whatever they are saying. 

I still don't want to fight over everything but I also won't stay quiet just to preserve the peace anymore if the issue warrants it. Now if others make the arguments for me I will still try to stay on the sidelines. In other words: I changed but I don't regret all of that change - just some of it

The part I bolded is where I am, too.

Visiting with family for Easter, Covid was eventually a topic of conversation if only because one brother and his wife were still quarantining from their mild cases of it.  It becomes a bit contentious as mom and sis (and her boys) won't get vaxxed, think the vax is worse than the disease, every death is reported as Covid even if it's not really (car accident), etc.  Dad stays out of it, my DH did too, rather than stir up hard feelings.  But I can't just let the untruths stand.  I have to say, "no, that's not true, and everyone does NOT believe that."  DS2 was right there with me, sometimes before me and I was backing him up.  He's pretty passionate about calling out the falsehoods, in fact he was reluctant to attend Easter with the family because he didn't want to upset anyone, knowing he couldn't stay silent about it.

That's why we are speaking out, even if it hurts a bit - because keeping quiet to keep the peace is worse.  Either we have to distance ourselves from those we love, rather than inflict discomfort by damaging their erroneous beliefs, or we have to live with the continued growth of these blatant lies, because no one challenges them.

We've collectively already tried to outwait the lies, hoping common sense would reemerge.  The lies are growing stronger.  It's time to call the lies out, repeatedly, nicely, but firmly. No, that is NOT true.

Had my mother say that one in my presence last summer. She went on to the one about hospitals being paid more. Said my piece, got up to avoid saying something worse, then had my wife admonish me for what I said. I think someone finally said to my mother that couldn't she see what the last 1.5 years had done to me and that maybe she could stop with the Fox news talking points.

This has sucked the joy out of my job, has cost me much of my empathy, and has made me seriously reconsider my timeline in regards to retirement. I have also lost what little patience I had.

[teen persuasion]

Apr 29, 2022 9:10:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 29, 2022 8:16:51 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

The part I bolded is where I am, too.

Visiting with family for Easter, Covid was eventually a topic of conversation if only because one brother and his wife were still quarantining from their mild cases of it.  It becomes a bit contentious as mom and sis (and her boys) won't get vaxxed, think the vax is worse than the disease, every death is reported as Covid even if it's not really (car accident), etc.  Dad stays out of it, my DH did too, rather than stir up hard feelings.  But I can't just let the untruths stand.  I have to say, "no, that's not true, and everyone does NOT believe that."  DS2 was right there with me, sometimes before me and I was backing him up.  He's pretty passionate about calling out the falsehoods, in fact he was reluctant to attend Easter with the family because he didn't want to upset anyone, knowing he couldn't stay silent about it.

That's why we are speaking out, even if it hurts a bit - because keeping quiet to keep the peace is worse.  Either we have to distance ourselves from those we love, rather than inflict discomfort by damaging their erroneous beliefs, or we have to live with the continued growth of these blatant lies, because no one challenges them.

We've collectively already tried to outwait the lies, hoping common sense would reemerge.  The lies are growing stronger.  It's time to call the lies out, repeatedly, nicely, but firmly. No, that is NOT true.

Had my mother say that one in my presence last summer. She went on to the one about hospitals being paid more. Said my piece, got up to avoid saying something worse, then had my wife admonish me for what I said. I think someone finally said to my mother that couldn't she see what the last 1.5 years had done to me and that maybe she could stop with the Fox news talking points.

This has sucked the joy out of my job, has cost me much of my empathy, and has made me seriously reconsider my timeline in regards to retirement. I have also lost what little patience I had.

You can really link it all back to Fox "News".

I was shocked when my mom first came out with something about Bill Gates putting chips in the vaccines.  I never expected something so obviously crazy - mom is intelligent, educated, and rational.  She does not want a computer in their house, so isn't online to see this stuff. Growing up, I never saw her watching news; dad followed financial news shows on PBS. Ohh, but they have cable now ... yep, she's watching Fox "News". She didn't know who Tucker Carlson was, but she mentioned Laura Ingraham. It's weird that she will accept that some of the media are less than truthful ("oh, those are lies"), but not that this "News" network might be the ones promoting and creating the lies.

It also doesn't help that my sister works for DHS/BP, so claims to know all sorts of secret gov info that "they" aren't telling us - like the "every death is listed as a Covid death, even that car accident last week - his Covid test was positive, so, yep, Covid on the death certificate."

It's so frustrating - yes, there's fake news - you are watching it!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My mom watches Fox News. You'd never know now she was a bra burning feminist in the 70s.

But CNN is lying. Umm..okay. If CNN is a bastion of liberal lies then.why can't Fix News be a bastion of conservative lies?

I really do believe retiring then being trapped at home 2 years contributed to this. She's completely brainwashed and accuses me and my brother of not being open minded when we get argumentative over some topics.

You raised us! We picked up our agenda from somewhere.

I leave now when she starts in on it. She's gotten the message because it's no longer on when I'm over and she made a back hand comment about me not liking her watching it.

I really don't understand what happened and it freaks me out.

[TheOtherMe]

BIL has watched Fox for years but when DS worked, they had an agreement that she got control of the tv in the evenings and weekends.  So she wasn't seeing much Fox News.

She retired, dad died and Covid hit.  So he was WFH for H&R Block with Fox News on.  She tried to tell me she personally knew people who knew people who knew people who had Covid on the death certificate and there was never a COVID test taken.  I asked her who these people were.  She knew so many she couldn't remember.  I then told her that it was BS and to give me a name.

She also believes hospitals got more money if Covid was on the death certificate.  Her daughter works at the hospital and told it wasn't true but what does she know?

[scgal]

Apr 29, 2022 7:52:45 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 29, 2022 6:35:44 GMT -5 scgal said:

Most of that is relative to the person
The earth absolutely
Biden won the election fairly (was their fraud absolutely on both sides every election)
The vaccine absolutely saved lives, effective yes, but safe? Who knows probably 99% yes but people have a legitimate concern for that 1%.

I don't think its about agreeing on reality as much as people demanding everyone seeing things as they do and how dare they question it. 

Facts are not relative. The are either true or not. You want to have it both ways.

The vaccines are safe and effective. Not only that, they are safer than most things people do not even have a concern about. Tylenol is OTC. It is safe. It is also the most common cause of suicide in Great Britain, and can cause liver failure. Yet everyone has given it to their children for fevers without even thinking twice. Tylenol does not save lives or alter disease, it just improves our quality of life. Yet its being on the market is not controversial. The nonsense about the vaccines is not about the vaccine itself, but based on nonsensical beliefs and politics.

It has to be both ways. Otherwise everyone would be mindless morons never questioning anything. Just go with the flow because they are told to. Now this is not personal I don't care if someone is vaxxed or not Im very comfortable knowing that it is their right to believe what they want but i'm very uncomfortable with anti vaxxers saying the people who want it is wrong just as i'm uncomfortable with anyone saying they are wrong. I doesn't matter about the facts they are only their to help you make your own personal choice.