discussion on "ghetto" - definition, connotation, usage

[seriousthistime]

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:30:53 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

Bit of a difference here, wouldn't you say?  One is a parenting strategy relating to random issues, tailored to a child's inclinations after determining what works best.  The other is an interaction between adults, pointing out an unintended racist comment.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 5, 2021 10:17:53 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

Bit of a difference here, wouldn't you say?  One is a parenting strategy relating to random issues, tailored to a child's inclinations after determining what works best.  The other is an interaction between adults, pointing out an unintended racist comment.  

Yes, but it had gone on for TWENTY FOUR hours. 

And I disagree that adults don't act childish sometimes and dig in their heels.

[seriousthistime]

We'll agree to disagree, then. 

[lurkyloo]

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:30:53 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

It’s hard to gauge things online  [img]https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/idunno.gif[/img]   When I run into things like this with my kid, I will make him discuss it with me first, because there is a threshold between „I’m going to stop thinking about this now bc it makes me uncomfortable and emotional growth is hard“ and „Huh, there is a lot of backlash about this and I should do some emotional work and consider changing things about myself.“ and I want to make sure we make that transition and there is growth as a result.

Missrigby is not my kid.  But the degree of backlash to what, as @pink Cshmere pointed out, were initially relatively gentle attempts to push back, makes me lean towards thinking that this was more than a simple miscommunication.  There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance involved when someone points out that an attitude you have is racist, because no one thinks they are racist.  Unconscious bias is a hell of a thing to combat.  (I probably am racist, not sure how, and I will be uncomfortable and probably upset if you point out specific instances, but I will try to fix it once I process.  I know there’s a lot of internal misogyny in my mindset and culture, and I try to combat it but it’s fucking hard.)

We’ve been slapped in the face lately with the real consequences of giving a pass on this stuff.  That’s my personal reason for calling things out.

And now I have „How to save a life“ running through my head.  [img]https://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/ymamsmiles/yeahright.png[/img]

[raeoflyte]

I think the difference is that she repeatedly posted why everyone was wrong and picking on her (not letting it go), and the request was basically to ignore it. That her feelings of being hurt should be respected, and the people who she hurt need to just suck it up.

Personally I think the separate thread was a mistake for a few reasons not the least being this has become a pile on.

[sesfw]

Jerry is a slur for German.

Hmmmmmm .......... I always thought it was a slur for Japanese during WW2

Haven't heard that expression in many, many years. 

I know it was common in the LA area growing up in the 40s and 50s.

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 9:05:55 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Well, I’ve slept on it and it still bothers me. Later’s first couple of posts weren’t ugly. “Please tell me you didn’t mean that the way it sounds” is not ugly. Then Later said she accepts that Miss R probably didn’t mean to be offensive, then she explained what it sounded like she was saying. That wasn’t ugly either.

In MY first post, I said myself being gentle and saying that most of us have probably said something that was unintentionally offensive to someone. I even brought up that I’d done it here recently, but when that person received it in a way I did not mean, I explained what I meant. Another poster said they would’ve taken it the same way, and I said I understand how it could come across in a bad way, and I would be more mindful of the things I say and how they could come across in the written word. That poster was still upset with me, so I directly apologized.

I was giving MissR a roadmap of what I believed was an acceptable way to handle a situation when you unintentionally offend someone you like. When I intentionally offend somebody, I don’t explain shit and I do not apologize.

I didn’t say anything directly to MissR until she she said she was done and unbothered. So again, I tried to be graceful and respectfully say that if she refused to even consider that maybe she did say something wrong, we could just part ways, and I still wish her well. Trying to just end it right there, since neither of us was willing to back down.

To ME, that was not me ranting, which she later accused me of. It was my opinion that it was HER that was ranting and raving.

The next day, I was done with it, wasn’t going to say anything else about it. But then came another rant and people were trying to shut it down because THEY didn’t want to be bothered with reading the comments, and I got really aggravated. With MissR and some of the other posters. As if I was the one that inserted something ugly into the thread.

So, I tried to “play nice” when I first addressed it. I’m not sure what people expected me to do, other than shut the fuck up and accept that MissR can say whatever the hell she wants and have a bunch of temper tantrums in response to what started off as me and other posters gently telling her that what she’d said didn’t sound quite right. That doesn’t sit well with me at all. And now I’m looking at people sideways, and thinking they can kiss a funky bear’s big ass. 

The people that spoke up, probably do the same IRL. The people that shared how it felt to them when they were called out or corrected IRL are obviously willing to entertain the thought that they make mistakes sometimes. But a bunch of y’all are welcome to that funky bear’s big ass.

Now keep that same energy y’all had yesterday, when it didn’t matter if somebody says some crazy shit.

I'm going to address the bolded in two parts. Now to some of you Later's explanation wasn't ugly. To me it was horrific actually. What the heck, people actually think that, and even worse are going to assume I do? I don't assume because you are black you know what a ghetto is. I don't assume because you are black you'd be comfortable living there. I know I personally do not do well when posters are attacking me saying I said something I didn't. Its a little easier if someone points out people are going to take what I said and intended totally differently, but it still is an attack on me for what it means to someone else instead of what I actually meant. 

One of the reason I think YM is crueler than PM, is people can't seem to let things go when going on and on will not solve or change anything. As posters we are allowed to say what we want as long as its within the code of conduct. On the politics board I and others had to live with Paul (SCP) posting multiple times that all liberals should be dead. That he wanted to kill us. Not acceptable, but the posts were allowed to stay, based on COC interpretations. Did that mean what he said was OK? No. It did not. Just because Miss R posted what she did, doesn't make it OK. However, once people post its not OK and she's not going to change it or apologize, it's a dead horse issue. There is no value of continuing. When Paul returned(s), it has never made those posts OK. Not sure if any conservative called him out on it, most did not engage at all even though the idea that roughly half the board should be murdered over their political beliefs is pretty over the top and much worse than what Miss R has posted. So if and when Miss R returns, it will not mean what she said was OK. It will just mean she is back with whatever attitudes she holds. 

Pink, I like you and I wish you could reframe how you see this. We are live people and IMO no one on this board should be entitled to posters responding or not responding. Why in the heck do you keep posting it did not matter if someone said crazy shit?

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2021 10:53:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:05:55 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Well, I’ve slept on it and it still bothers me. Later’s first couple of posts weren’t ugly. “Please tell me you didn’t mean that the way it sounds” is not ugly. Then Later said she accepts that Miss R probably didn’t mean to be offensive, then she explained what it sounded like she was saying. That wasn’t ugly either.

In MY first post, I said myself being gentle and saying that most of us have probably said something that was unintentionally offensive to someone. I even brought up that I’d done it here recently, but when that person received it in a way I did not mean, I explained what I meant. Another poster said they would’ve taken it the same way, and I said I understand how it could come across in a bad way, and I would be more mindful of the things I say and how they could come across in the written word. That poster was still upset with me, so I directly apologized.

I was giving MissR a roadmap of what I believed was an acceptable way to handle a situation when you unintentionally offend someone you like. When I intentionally offend somebody, I don’t explain shit and I do not apologize.

I didn’t say anything directly to MissR until she she said she was done and unbothered. So again, I tried to be graceful and respectfully say that if she refused to even consider that maybe she did say something wrong, we could just part ways, and I still wish her well. Trying to just end it right there, since neither of us was willing to back down.

To ME, that was not me ranting, which she later accused me of. It was my opinion that it was HER that was ranting and raving.

The next day, I was done with it, wasn’t going to say anything else about it. But then came another rant and people were trying to shut it down because THEY didn’t want to be bothered with reading the comments, and I got really aggravated. With MissR and some of the other posters. As if I was the one that inserted something ugly into the thread.

So, I tried to “play nice” when I first addressed it. I’m not sure what people expected me to do, other than shut the fuck up and accept that MissR can say whatever the hell she wants and have a bunch of temper tantrums in response to what started off as me and other posters gently telling her that what she’d said didn’t sound quite right. That doesn’t sit well with me at all. And now I’m looking at people sideways, and thinking they can kiss a funky bear’s big ass. 

The people that spoke up, probably do the same IRL. The people that shared how it felt to them when they were called out or corrected IRL are obviously willing to entertain the thought that they make mistakes sometimes. But a bunch of y’all are welcome to that funky bear’s big ass.

Now keep that same energy y’all had yesterday, when it didn’t matter if somebody says some crazy shit.

I'm going to address the bolded in two parts. Now to some of you Later's explanation wasn't ugly. To me it was horrific actually. What the heck, people actually think that, and even worse are going to assume I do? I don't assume because you are black you know what a ghetto is. I don't assume because you are black you'd be comfortable living there. I know I personally do not do well when posters are attacking me saying I said something I didn't. Its a little easier if someone points out people are going to take what I said and intended totally differently, but it still is an attack on me for what it means to someone else instead of what I actually meant. 

One of the reason I think YM is crueler than PM, is people can't seem to let things go when going on and on will not solve or change anything. As posters we are allowed to say what we want as long as its within the code of conduct. On the politics board I and others had to live with Paul (SCP) posting multiple times that all liberals should be dead. That he wanted to kill us. Not acceptable, but the posts were allowed to stay, based on COC interpretations. Did that mean what he said was OK? No. It did not. Just because Miss R posted what she did, doesn't make it OK. However, once people post its not OK and she's not going to change it or apologize, it's a dead horse issue. There is no value of continuing. When Paul returned(s), it has never made those posts OK. Not sure if any conservative called him out on it, most did not engage at all even though the idea that roughly half the board should be murdered over their political beliefs is pretty over the top and much worse than what Miss R has posted. So if and when Miss R returns, it will not mean what she said was OK. It will just mean she is back with whatever attitudes she holds. 

Pink, I like you and I wish you could reframe how you see this. We are live people and IMO no one on this board should be entitled to posters responding or not responding. Why in the heck do you keep posting it did not matter if someone said crazy shit?

Because I want to, that’s why.

And because if it’s cool for other people, I don’t want anybody to say shit to ME when I give y’all that other Pink. That’s why the heck I keep posting that.

NEXT.

[andi9899]

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:30:53 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

Why should we just let it go? You are not a POC and have not been discriminated against because of the color of your skin. I don't expect you to empathize, but can you really not see why we don't just let racial profiling go? Just letting it go just fuels the fire. POC end up dead because they were profiled.

[gs11rmb]

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:30:53 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

I've got one of those kids too... 

I wasn't suggesting that Miss R be forced to give an insincere apology.  It's clear that she either doesn't think she said anything offensive or doesn't feel the need to apologize.  I meant that if she doesn't want to continue the discussion and bow out then that's fine but the remaining posters should be able to discuss the subject and even refer to the original post.  

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 5, 2021 11:23:56 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

Why should we just let it go? You are not a POC and have not been discriminated against because of the color of your skin. I don't expect you to empathize, but can you really not see why we don't just let racial profiling go? Just letting it go just fuels the fire. POC end up dead because they were profiled.

So forever it should go back and forth with the arguing on that thread?   Like never end?  At what point is a "winner" declared?  I mean MissR is gone now, so I guess it has to be let go because she's not going to respond anyhow.

eta: And this thread was created so people COULD keep discussing it. 

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 11:24:44 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:58:44 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

I've got one of those kids too... 

I wasn't suggesting that Miss R be forced to give an insincere apology.  It's clear that she either doesn't think she said anything offensive or doesn't feel the need to apologize.  I meant that if she doesn't want to continue the discussion and bow out then that's fine but the remaining posters should be able to discuss the subject and even refer to the original post.  

Actually she deleted part of her post because of the complaints, reference post #4 in this thread. So she knew it was offensive so she deleted it. 

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2021 11:14:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 3, 2021 17:04:39 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I shared the story here about 10 years ago, when I was in Mississippi at a Home Depot, to buy a Weedeater. And before I got inside the store, a man in the parking lot said within earshot of my DD that I needed to take my “ghetto ass” back to Tennessee. My car has TN tags, but the stores in MS were closer to my home than the ones in TN.

I had on jeans and a t-shirt because I’d been working in my yard and my Weedeater started leaking gas, so I stopped and went to buy another one so I could finish my yard. And I do have a nose ring, but my jewels are always so small that even my Mom didn’t notice it for some months. I’d just got out of my car, and it does have chrome wheels, but it’s also just a freaking Honda Accord.  All that to say, it’s safe to assume that the only thing about the way I look that could be considered “ghetto”, is my skin color.

So, in America, just like it was explained in the link raeoflyte provided, that word is usually used in reference to Black people, and not in a positive way. When it’s used, it’s understood that it means a certain kind of Black person, or even just a Black person, period.

So, IRT the comment that was made here, it came off as sounding like, if a BLACK person even says something is ghetto, it’s confirmation that it’s REALLY bad. Why? I know about ‘hoods and have lived in them. But we have another poster here that is not Black and talks about living in the ‘hood. I’ve lived my whole life in or near a city that is predominantly Black and not wealthy. That city is the poor, Black sheep (pun intended) of the state. But I can’t think of an area in the city that I would call the ghetto. The “bad” or less wealthy parts of town are the ‘hoods. So, if you ask me, “ghetto” is a description, not a place, not a neighborhood, not a part of town. It’s a label assigned to Black people, as if we all either are that, or know all about it.

But those are just the opinions of Pink Cashmere, not the thoughts of all Black people or every American.

I'd like to offer another way to look at what happened. That person was an asshole. But he may have said "ghetto ass" not because he believed you were ghetto, but because it would make you angry and manipulate you into leaving. His goal was to get you out of his MS Home Depot. 

And probably to never come back. 

Please stop trying to make up excuses for bullshit.

It doesn’t matter what his motive was, or why he called me ghetto. He was a bitch, saying it out of my earshot, not realizing my daughter heard him. And when I told him to repeat what the fuck he said outside, he had nothing to say. He let his silly ass wife speak for him, so she got it too.

And the delightful, uglass kids that that particular fine, upstanding gentleman is raising, threw their middle fingers up from the backseat of their car as they were leaving.

You know, sometimes when people slowly get fed up, it’s a minor thing that finally breaks the camel’s back. I’ve been honest around here about how I’ve been feeling over the last few years. So, let me be honest once more and say I’m fucking fed up with White Americans. I feel shit I’ve never felt before in my life, that I don’t even WANT to feel. I’m tired of giving folks passes, which is what I tried to do yesterday. But she wouldn’t let me and after I tried to end it, halfway peacefully, SHE was still ranting and tagging ME in her rants. But I’m wrong?! THE FUCK?!

And if me saying that gets me banned, I don’t give a fuck about that either.

Now put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.

[raeoflyte]

Oct 5, 2021 11:36:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 11:23:56 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Why should we just let it go? You are not a POC and have not been discriminated against because of the color of your skin. I don't expect you to empathize, but can you really not see why we don't just let racial profiling go? Just letting it go just fuels the fire. POC end up dead because they were profiled.

So forever it should go back and forth with the arguing on that thread?   Like never end?  At what point is a "winner" declared?  I mean MissR is gone now, so I guess it has to be let go because she's not going to respond anyhow.

eta: And this thread was created so people COULD keep discussing it. 

We have decades of expecting POC to excuse/forgive white people for any indiscretion - (because intent matters! If they didn't intend to hurt you, it's your fault if you're hurt, you misunderstood, always assume best intentions or you're the problem in racial relations). That's what was requested in the thread too. To the point that just the conversation was too uncomfortable that it was moved so people could ignore it / not be subjected to it unless they wanted too. MissR needed to drop it, and even if she couldn't it doesn't mean the other side should. It's something we should speak out against every time.

[swamp]

Oct 5, 2021 10:53:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:05:55 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Well, I’ve slept on it and it still bothers me. Later’s first couple of posts weren’t ugly. “Please tell me you didn’t mean that the way it sounds” is not ugly. Then Later said she accepts that Miss R probably didn’t mean to be offensive, then she explained what it sounded like she was saying. That wasn’t ugly either.

In MY first post, I said myself being gentle and saying that most of us have probably said something that was unintentionally offensive to someone. I even brought up that I’d done it here recently, but when that person received it in a way I did not mean, I explained what I meant. Another poster said they would’ve taken it the same way, and I said I understand how it could come across in a bad way, and I would be more mindful of the things I say and how they could come across in the written word. That poster was still upset with me, so I directly apologized.

I was giving MissR a roadmap of what I believed was an acceptable way to handle a situation when you unintentionally offend someone you like. When I intentionally offend somebody, I don’t explain shit and I do not apologize.

I didn’t say anything directly to MissR until she she said she was done and unbothered. So again, I tried to be graceful and respectfully say that if she refused to even consider that maybe she did say something wrong, we could just part ways, and I still wish her well. Trying to just end it right there, since neither of us was willing to back down.

To ME, that was not me ranting, which she later accused me of. It was my opinion that it was HER that was ranting and raving.

The next day, I was done with it, wasn’t going to say anything else about it. But then came another rant and people were trying to shut it down because THEY didn’t want to be bothered with reading the comments, and I got really aggravated. With MissR and some of the other posters. As if I was the one that inserted something ugly into the thread.

So, I tried to “play nice” when I first addressed it. I’m not sure what people expected me to do, other than shut the fuck up and accept that MissR can say whatever the hell she wants and have a bunch of temper tantrums in response to what started off as me and other posters gently telling her that what she’d said didn’t sound quite right. That doesn’t sit well with me at all. And now I’m looking at people sideways, and thinking they can kiss a funky bear’s big ass. 

The people that spoke up, probably do the same IRL. The people that shared how it felt to them when they were called out or corrected IRL are obviously willing to entertain the thought that they make mistakes sometimes. But a bunch of y’all are welcome to that funky bear’s big ass.

Now keep that same energy y’all had yesterday, when it didn’t matter if somebody says some crazy shit.

I'm going to address the bolded in two parts. Now to some of you Later's explanation wasn't ugly. To me it was horrific actually. What the heck, people actually think that, and even worse are going to assume I do? I don't assume because you are black you know what a ghetto is. I don't assume because you are black you'd be comfortable living there. I know I personally do not do well when posters are attacking me saying I said something I didn't. Its a little easier if someone points out people are going to take what I said and intended totally differently, but it still is an attack on me for what it means to someone else instead of what I actually meant. 

One of the reason I think YM is crueler than PM, is people can't seem to let things go when going on and on will not solve or change anything. As posters we are allowed to say what we want as long as its within the code of conduct. On the politics board I and others had to live with Paul (SCP) posting multiple times that all liberals should be dead. That he wanted to kill us. Not acceptable, but the posts were allowed to stay, based on COC interpretations. Did that mean what he said was OK? No. It did not. Just because Miss R posted what she did, doesn't make it OK. However, once people post its not OK and she's not going to change it or apologize, it's a dead horse issue. There is no value of continuing. When Paul returned(s), it has never made those posts OK. Not sure if any conservative called him out on it, most did not engage at all even though the idea that roughly half the board should be murdered over their political beliefs is pretty over the top and much worse than what Miss R has posted. So if and when Miss R returns, it will not mean what she said was OK. It will just mean she is back with whatever attitudes she holds. 

Pink, I like you and I wish you could reframe how you see this. We are live people and IMO no one on this board should be entitled to posters responding or not responding. Why in the heck do you keep posting it did not matter if someone said crazy shit?

Why is your view of this any more value than Pinks?

ETA: I’m white. You’re white. Maybe us Whitey McWhitersons should pipe down and stop telling POC how to interpret certain actions and words?

[swamp]

Oct 5, 2021 11:14:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 3, 2021 17:04:39 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I shared the story here about 10 years ago, when I was in Mississippi at a Home Depot, to buy a Weedeater. And before I got inside the store, a man in the parking lot said within earshot of my DD that I needed to take my “ghetto ass” back to Tennessee. My car has TN tags, but the stores in MS were closer to my home than the ones in TN.

I had on jeans and a t-shirt because I’d been working in my yard and my Weedeater started leaking gas, so I stopped and went to buy another one so I could finish my yard. And I do have a nose ring, but my jewels are always so small that even my Mom didn’t notice it for some months. I’d just got out of my car, and it does have chrome wheels, but it’s also just a freaking Honda Accord.  All that to say, it’s safe to assume that the only thing about the way I look that could be considered “ghetto”, is my skin color.

So, in America, just like it was explained in the link raeoflyte provided, that word is usually used in reference to Black people, and not in a positive way. When it’s used, it’s understood that it means a certain kind of Black person, or even just a Black person, period.

So, IRT the comment that was made here, it came off as sounding like, if a BLACK person even says something is ghetto, it’s confirmation that it’s REALLY bad. Why? I know about ‘hoods and have lived in them. But we have another poster here that is not Black and talks about living in the ‘hood. I’ve lived my whole life in or near a city that is predominantly Black and not wealthy. That city is the poor, Black sheep (pun intended) of the state. But I can’t think of an area in the city that I would call the ghetto. The “bad” or less wealthy parts of town are the ‘hoods. So, if you ask me, “ghetto” is a description, not a place, not a neighborhood, not a part of town. It’s a label assigned to Black people, as if we all either are that, or know all about it.

But those are just the opinions of Pink Cashmere, not the thoughts of all Black people or every American.

I'd like to offer another way to look at what happened. That person was an asshole. But he may have said "ghetto ass" not because he believed you were ghetto, but because it would make you angry and manipulate you into leaving. His goal was to get you out of his MS Home Depot. 

And probably to never come back. 

Wow. That’s some high level obtuseness. He called her ghetto because she’s black and he’s a racist twat

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 12:16:01 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 5, 2021 11:14:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'd like to offer another way to look at what happened. That person was an asshole. But he may have said "ghetto ass" not because he believed you were ghetto, but because it would make you angry and manipulate you into leaving. His goal was to get you out of his MS Home Depot. 

And probably to never come back. 

Wow. That’s some high level obtuseness. He called her ghetto because she’s black and he’s a racist twat

Sorry its an attempt at shades of gray, which I forget do not work in YM. Of course he used the word ghetto because she was black. 

[swamp]

Oct 5, 2021 12:29:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:16:01 GMT -5 swamp said:

Wow. That’s some high level obtuseness. He called her ghetto because she’s black and he’s a racist twat

Sorry its an attempt at shades of gray, which I forget do not work in YM. Of course he used the word ghetto because she was black. 

Why else would he use it?

Shades of gray exist, but not in this example.

[andi9899]

Oct 5, 2021 11:36:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 5, 2021 11:23:56 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

Why should we just let it go? You are not a POC and have not been discriminated against because of the color of your skin. I don't expect you to empathize, but can you really not see why we don't just let racial profiling go? Just letting it go just fuels the fire. POC end up dead because they were profiled.

So forever it should go back and forth with the arguing on that thread?   Like never end?  At what point is a "winner" declared?  I mean MissR is gone now, so I guess it has to be let go because she's not going to respond anyhow.

eta: And this thread was created so people COULD keep discussing it. 

Until people decide they are done discussing it. If you don't want to see it, you don't have to read it. You are in control of you and nobody else. Your privilege does not transfer to this subject or this board for that matter.

[Cookies Galore]

Oct 5, 2021 12:29:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:16:01 GMT -5 swamp said:

Wow. That’s some high level obtuseness. He called her ghetto because she’s black and he’s a racist twat

Sorry its an attempt at shades of gray, which I forget do not work in YM. Of course he used the word ghetto because she was black. 

Why the hell even attempt to "shades of gray" something this obvious? Do not attempt to devil's advocate a Black woman's real life experience.

[andi9899]

Oct 5, 2021 12:13:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 5, 2021 10:53:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'm going to address the bolded in two parts. Now to some of you Later's explanation wasn't ugly. To me it was horrific actually. What the heck, people actually think that, and even worse are going to assume I do? I don't assume because you are black you know what a ghetto is. I don't assume because you are black you'd be comfortable living there. I know I personally do not do well when posters are attacking me saying I said something I didn't. Its a little easier if someone points out people are going to take what I said and intended totally differently, but it still is an attack on me for what it means to someone else instead of what I actually meant. 

One of the reason I think YM is crueler than PM, is people can't seem to let things go when going on and on will not solve or change anything. As posters we are allowed to say what we want as long as its within the code of conduct. On the politics board I and others had to live with Paul (SCP) posting multiple times that all liberals should be dead. That he wanted to kill us. Not acceptable, but the posts were allowed to stay, based on COC interpretations. Did that mean what he said was OK? No. It did not. Just because Miss R posted what she did, doesn't make it OK. However, once people post its not OK and she's not going to change it or apologize, it's a dead horse issue. There is no value of continuing. When Paul returned(s), it has never made those posts OK. Not sure if any conservative called him out on it, most did not engage at all even though the idea that roughly half the board should be murdered over their political beliefs is pretty over the top and much worse than what Miss R has posted. So if and when Miss R returns, it will not mean what she said was OK. It will just mean she is back with whatever attitudes she holds. 

Pink, I like you and I wish you could reframe how you see this. We are live people and IMO no one on this board should be entitled to posters responding or not responding. Why in the heck do you keep posting it did not matter if someone said crazy shit?

Why is your view of this any more value than Pinks?

ETA: I’m white. You’re white. Maybe us Whitey McWhitersons should pipe down and stop telling POC how to interpret certain actions and words?

Andi ❤ Swamp.

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 12:13:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 5, 2021 10:53:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'm going to address the bolded in two parts. Now to some of you Later's explanation wasn't ugly. To me it was horrific actually. What the heck, people actually think that, and even worse are going to assume I do? I don't assume because you are black you know what a ghetto is. I don't assume because you are black you'd be comfortable living there. I know I personally do not do well when posters are attacking me saying I said something I didn't. Its a little easier if someone points out people are going to take what I said and intended totally differently, but it still is an attack on me for what it means to someone else instead of what I actually meant. 

One of the reason I think YM is crueler than PM, is people can't seem to let things go when going on and on will not solve or change anything. As posters we are allowed to say what we want as long as its within the code of conduct. On the politics board I and others had to live with Paul (SCP) posting multiple times that all liberals should be dead. That he wanted to kill us. Not acceptable, but the posts were allowed to stay, based on COC interpretations. Did that mean what he said was OK? No. It did not. Just because Miss R posted what she did, doesn't make it OK. However, once people post its not OK and she's not going to change it or apologize, it's a dead horse issue. There is no value of continuing. When Paul returned(s), it has never made those posts OK. Not sure if any conservative called him out on it, most did not engage at all even though the idea that roughly half the board should be murdered over their political beliefs is pretty over the top and much worse than what Miss R has posted. So if and when Miss R returns, it will not mean what she said was OK. It will just mean she is back with whatever attitudes she holds. 

Pink, I like you and I wish you could reframe how you see this. We are live people and IMO no one on this board should be entitled to posters responding or not responding. Why in the heck do you keep posting it did not matter if someone said crazy shit?

Why is your view of this any more value than Pinks?

ETA: I’m white. You’re white. Maybe us Whitey McWhitersons should pipe down and stop telling POC how to interpret certain actions and words?

Why should my opinion have no value simply because I am white? 

[raeoflyte]

Oct 5, 2021 12:29:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:16:01 GMT -5 swamp said:

Wow. That’s some high level obtuseness. He called her ghetto because she’s black and he’s a racist twat

Sorry its an attempt at shades of gray, which I forget do not work in YM. Of course he used the word ghetto because she was black. 

From your example, he probably wanted her to leave "his" home depot based only on the information he had on her by knowing her for .5 seconds in a parking lot. Outside of her skin color, what info does he have for not wanting her there?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 5, 2021 12:50:37 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:13:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Why is your view of this any more value than Pinks?

ETA: I’m white. You’re white. Maybe us Whitey McWhitersons should pipe down and stop telling POC how to interpret certain actions and words?

Why should my opinion have no value simply because I am white? 

Because as a white person your understanding and frame of reference are totally different?  This is no different than mansplaining.  Would you appreciate a man trying to explain to you that you didn't really experience sexism because HE doesn't see it that way so here's how it must have gone down?

Also it's another subtle form of racism by turning the conversation back to you and your perspective as a white person.    

Your world view is already the golden standard, everyone who is not white knows your view point.   It your job to sit down, shut up and listen to others views.  It is not their duty to make you feel more comfortable by acknowledging the white person and her views in the room.   They have the right to talk about their experiences without having to make sure they provide a more palitable white version so you won't get butt hurt.

[gs11rmb]

Oct 5, 2021 12:38:29 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:29:04 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sorry its an attempt at shades of gray, which I forget do not work in YM. Of course he used the word ghetto because she was black. 

Why the hell even attempt to "shades of gray" something this obvious? Do not attempt to devil's advocate a Black woman's real life experience.

A few weeks ago my neighbor posted on NextDoor about a man who followed her around Publix and then when she thought he was gone she went outside and found a note on her car saying she was attractive (no phone number) and he was sitting in his car watching her.  She went back into the store, told the manager, and called her husband to drive down.  By the time the police arrived, the man had left.  She was posting this story just as an FYI for local women to look out for this creep.  A few men posted that perhaps he was just shy and wanted to get to know her and why was she assuming he was a threat.  Every woman reading that story and commenting felt her fear and also the dismissal from people who just couldn't possibly understand how vulnerable women can feel.  

As a white woman, I can only guess that black people and other POC have the same instinct when it comes to race and it has to be infuriating to have those feelings invalidated.  I know gender-based fear when I see it so I have no doubt that @pinkcshmere knows race-based fear.  

[andi9899]

Oct 5, 2021 12:54:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:51:34 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

From your example, he probably wanted her to leave "his" home depot based only on the information he had on her by knowing her for .5 seconds in a parking lot. Outside of her skin color, what info does he have for not wanting her there?

I believe her example included she was from TN.

Are you serious right now?

[raeoflyte]

Oct 5, 2021 12:54:06 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:51:34 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

From your example, he probably wanted her to leave "his" home depot based only on the information he had on her by knowing her for .5 seconds in a parking lot. Outside of her skin color, what info does he have for not wanting her there?

I believe her example included she was from TN.

And its more likely that he says that to everyone with Tennessee plates he sees, than that it was meant as a racial slur?

Life isn't a jury box. We don't have to prove that every interaction is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Although, in this example the most reasonable explanation is racism. It's a lot of mental gymnastics to come up with some other possibility.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 5, 2021 12:59:13 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:38:29 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Why the hell even attempt to "shades of gray" something this obvious? Do not attempt to devil's advocate a Black woman's real life experience.

A few weeks ago my neighbor posted on NextDoor about a man who followed her around Publix and then when she thought he was gone she went outside and found a note on her car saying she was attractive (no phone number) and he was sitting in his car watching her.  She went back into the store, told the manager, and called her husband to drive down.  By the time the police arrived, the man had left.  She was posting this story just as an FYI for local women to look out for this creep.  A few men posted that perhaps he was just shy and wanted to get to know her and why was she assuming he was a threat.  Every woman reading that story and commenting felt her fear and also the dismissal from people who just couldn't possibly understand how vulnerable woman can feel.  

As a white woman, I can only guess that black people and other POC have the same instinct when it comes to race and it has to be infuriating to have those feelings invalidated.  I know gender-based fear when I see it so I have know doubt that @pinkcshmere knows race-based fear.  

That right there boys and girls is toxic masculinity.   Umm gee why WOULDN'T I find a guy who is watching me in the parking lot after stalking my car to leave a note creepy? 

Let's say maybe he WAS shy? Hurts to say but let's go down the rabbit hole.  What gives the man a right to creep out a woman like that just because he *likes* her?  Why should *I* feel bad for HIM?   It's not his right to hit on me and then have me apologize for not getting the message.

It's not acceptable no matter how you spin it.  THAT is the message people are trying to get across in this thread.

[andi9899]

Oct 5, 2021 13:04:22 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:59:13 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

A few weeks ago my neighbor posted on NextDoor about a man who followed her around Publix and then when she thought he was gone she went outside and found a note on her car saying she was attractive (no phone number) and he was sitting in his car watching her.  She went back into the store, told the manager, and called her husband to drive down.  By the time the police arrived, the man had left.  She was posting this story just as an FYI for local women to look out for this creep.  A few men posted that perhaps he was just shy and wanted to get to know her and why was she assuming he was a threat.  Every woman reading that story and commenting felt her fear and also the dismissal from people who just couldn't possibly understand how vulnerable woman can feel.  

As a white woman, I can only guess that black people and other POC have the same instinct when it comes to race and it has to be infuriating to have those feelings invalidated.  I know gender-based fear when I see it so I have know doubt that @pinkcshmere knows race-based fear.  

That right there boys and girls is toxic masculinity.   Umm gee why WOULDN'T I find a guy who is watching me in the parking lot after stalking my car to leave a note creepy? 

Let's say maybe he WAS shy? Hurts to say but let's go down the rabbit hole.  What gives the man a right to creep out a woman like that just because he *likes* her?  Why should *I* feel bad for HIM?   It's not his right to hit on me and then have me apologize for not getting the message.

It's not acceptable no matter how you spin it.  THAT is the message people are trying to get across in this thread.

I'll bet the same guy would be ready to fight if it were his wife/GF/daughter/sister that had gotten the note put on her car.

[swasat]

Oct 5, 2021 12:50:37 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 5, 2021 12:13:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Why is your view of this any more value than Pinks?

ETA: I’m white. You’re white. Maybe us Whitey McWhitersons should pipe down and stop telling POC how to interpret certain actions and words?

Why should my opinion have no value simply because I am white? 

Who the heck said your opinion has no value? But your opinion, as a white female who has never faced the biases and negativities a POC faces regularly, definitely counts LOWER than a POC's opinion - FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

And your explanation of "what the other person might have meant" or the angles that you are throwing at it definitely DO NOT matter. Bad behavior is bad behavior, it should not be justified or excused. Especially racial prejudices or biases or slurs.