discussion on "ghetto" - definition, connotation, usage

[andi9899]

I don't see what the amount of times people post have to do with anything. I do see why racial profiling is the topic of conversation however. I also don't understand what is so hard to understand about it. I still think MissR is a good person. She fucked up. We all do. It's how we handle being called out on it that is the difference.

The truth is that white people will never understand the POC POV. Period. You can sympathize with them, but you'll never empathize.

[andi9899]

Oct 4, 2021 20:56:30 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I suggest the thread be called "A Collection of Miss Rigby's tantrums when being called out on a racist comment"

For the record, I'm kinda proud that I've been calling out racism for 15 years. I didn't realise it had been that long.

I think that's a bit much. If we all were crucified for every misstep nobody would be here.

[Lizard Queen]

Oct 4, 2021 21:04:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Thank you chiver.

I am so deeply sad about all this.  

I will miss missrigby.

I can’t interpret what she said in a way that is not racist.  I am disappointed in her for saying it, and also for lashing out rather than taking a minute to consider whether she was in the wrong.

I am disappointed at the number of people that want to sweep it under the rug and scold those who are pointing out that this is not actually acceptable and that we are creating a „safe space“ at the expense of those who have been marginalized for centuries.

Not happy with myself for not advocating better either.  I found the remark offensive before I saw anyone calling it out, but waited for others to point out it wasn’t okay.  I don’t think anyone wins this one.

Really, because the way I read it, was this other lady was telling her, "hey I'm black and if I say this, then it's this". Maybe because Ive had a similar conversation at one time, or maybe I'm familiar with her style of writing.
Just like when someone else said something like, "pssh girl get outta here", or something like that, I knew it was affectionate and not dismissive like it was apparently taken.

Anyway, that's really all I got to say about this whole thing. I really dislike the attack vibe here, so I'll make my way out.

[laterbloomer]

Oct 4, 2021 21:20:13 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 4, 2021 20:56:30 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I suggest the thread be called "A Collection of Miss Rigby's tantrums when being called out on a racist comment"

For the record, I'm kinda proud that I've been calling out racism for 15 years. I didn't realise it had been that long.

That's really awful, and a personal attack.

And yet 4 paragraphs she wrote about me gets no comment?

[Lizard Queen]

Oct 4, 2021 21:31:16 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:20:13 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

That's really awful, and a personal attack.

And yet 4 paragraphs she wrote about me gets no comment?

As a heading for an entire thread?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 4, 2021 21:04:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Thank you chiver.

I am so deeply sad about all this.  

I will miss missrigby.

I can’t interpret what she said in a way that is not racist.  I am disappointed in her for saying it, and also for lashing out rather than taking a minute to consider whether she was in the wrong.

I am disappointed at the number of people that want to sweep it under the rug and scold those who are pointing out that this is not actually acceptable and that we are creating a „safe space“ at the expense of those who have been marginalized for centuries.

Not happy with myself for not advocating better either.  I found the remark offensive before I saw anyone calling it out, but waited for others to point out it wasn’t okay.  I don’t think anyone wins this one.

so well put, and compassionate to all.



Thank you lurkyloo.

[laterbloomer]

Oct 4, 2021 21:16:54 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Oct 4, 2021 20:56:30 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I suggest the thread be called "A Collection of Miss Rigby's tantrums when being called out on a racist comment"

For the record, I'm kinda proud that I've been calling out racism for 15 years. I didn't realise it had been that long.

one last thing before I check out. this particular thing struck a nerve with me.  are you referring to your track record of putting words in others' mouths? because I very clearly remember a post of mine that you latched onto in the Presidential primary debate process - where I said I didn't like Kamala Harris, but couldn't put my finger on why. you latched onto that for a few days, trying to twist my words, and basically derailing whatever thread it was in. you called me a few different things along the way, including a racist, if in not so many words. you do seem to find a target and just go with it til you beat them down. why is that? 

FWIW, I'm not arguing for or against whatever missrigby said/relayed/whatever. this comment is specifically about MY POST from awhile back, and how Later reacted to it. 

ETA: and now I'm out. sleep well, kids. I'm logging out now. 

Did you ever figure out what you didn't like about her? Was it being a woman or being black?

[laterbloomer]

Oct 4, 2021 21:38:31 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:31:16 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

And yet 4 paragraphs she wrote about me gets no comment?

As a heading for an entire thread?

I know chiver won't actually do it.

[Opti]

Oct 4, 2021 21:53:18 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:16:54 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

one last thing before I check out. this particular thing struck a nerve with me.  are you referring to your track record of putting words in others' mouths? because I very clearly remember a post of mine that you latched onto in the Presidential primary debate process - where I said I didn't like Kamala Harris, but couldn't put my finger on why. you latched onto that for a few days, trying to twist my words, and basically derailing whatever thread it was in. you called me a few different things along the way, including a racist, if in not so many words. you do seem to find a target and just go with it til you beat them down. why is that? 

FWIW, I'm not arguing for or against whatever missrigby said/relayed/whatever. this comment is specifically about MY POST from awhile back, and how Later reacted to it. 

ETA: and now I'm out. sleep well, kids. I'm logging out now. 

Did you ever figure out what you didn't like about her? Was it being a woman or being black?

Why couldn't it be her policy positions, her character or something else? My dislike of Trump has little to do with the fact he is a white man and everything to do with how he acts in the world to keep his own ego afloat.

[laterbloomer]

Oct 4, 2021 21:56:32 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:53:18 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Did you ever figure out what you didn't like about her? Was it being a woman or being black?

Why couldn't it be her policy positions, her character or something else? My dislike of Trump has little to do with the fact he is a white man and everything to do with how he acts in the world to keep his own ego afloat.

Because you can put your finger on policy position disagreements or starting insurrections.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 4, 2021 22:01:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:56:32 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why couldn't it be her policy positions, her character or something else? My dislike of Trump has little to do with the fact he is a white man and everything to do with how he acts in the world to keep his own ego afloat.

Because you can put your finger on policy position disagreements or starting insurrections.

That's stupid to jump to it being racist.  There's plenty of white people I've come across over my lifetime that I don't like but don't really know why.  Sometimes people just rub you the wrong way. 

Like...now.  

[Opti]

Oct 4, 2021 22:06:33 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 4, 2021 22:01:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Because you can put your finger on policy position disagreements or starting insurrections.

That's stupid to jump to it being racist.  There's plenty of white people I've come across over my lifetime that I don't like but don't really know why.  Sometimes people just rub you the wrong way. 

Like...now.  

Sometimes in the future they do things, and you realize that must be why. (My personal experience with certain co-workers, YMMV.)

[raeoflyte]

The original statement is right there. It isn't a style, it's a "subtle" form of racism. My mean thought is that if white people were half as concerned about ending racism as we were about being called a racist we'd be past these issues by now.

I think it would be or could be more constructive to talk about where and how we see and silently endorse racism and ways to fight that. Every study confirms racism is alive and well, and we are all complicit. I dont know how that is still ignored? Its similar to the bad drivers idea that everyone else is a shitty winter driver but the person recounting their harrowing drive is a perfect driver, but I don't get that either.

Would it have been better to write off the comment as being made by a little old white lady who couldn't have known better, because that isn't how I saw MissR. And while I'm not surprised at how quickly everything devolved I'm saddened at how quickly the attacks flew.

Im rambling, but things Im interested in discussing: How to call out offensive words and actions without falling into a white savior trope. How to do that in constructive ways so that the offender doesnt shut down without watering down the message. Confronting ways I've failed in the past and how to be better next time it happens.

I doubt that this thread is the place that will happen, but those are things I grapple with. Dealing with my own racism, trying not to pass it on to my kids, while acknowledging that I'm setting them up to grow up in practically the exact same white-centric childhood I had.

[seriousthistime]

Oct 4, 2021 17:48:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 17:39:19 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Did I not predict this?  

See the last paragraph in my reply at #127411 on page 4248.  (Note: this was a citation to the 'What are you doing right now?' thread.  It appears in this thread as reply # 25, page 1.)

Sometimes I just can't resist saying "I told you so."

All I can say is that we don't all feel that way. Many of us are just fine with calling out, and being called out on (even though it stings) racist comments and assumptions. Some of us really do want to do better and will not insist POC take it quietly so that things don't get uncomfortable.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, laterbloomer, but I was referring to the fact that there are some poster "favorites" and they are sometimes cut a lot of slack in what they get away with. Even when they cross the line, as was done here. 

Another comment comes to mind as I reread everything... Miss R said no one picked up on a comment from a few weeks ago, and it wasn't until laterbloomer told us to be offended that we got all offended.  I didn't read the comment from a few weeks ago.  Miss R seemed to post a lot, multiple times a day, in that thread and maybe others. But some of us don't have the time to do that. I sometimes find 50 pages have gone by since I last checked in on a thread. I have time to read maybe the last 5 pages, and if I have any comments they will of course be limited to the more recent post I've read and not to something I may not have read two weeks ago.  It doesn't mean I ignored the first post and then someone told me how to feel about it in a subsequent one.  We don't always read all of the posts in a fast moving thread.  I sure hope it doesn't mean we shouldn't comment on anything just in case we might have missed an earlier post on the same topic. 

[justme]

Oct 4, 2021 22:01:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:56:32 GMT -5 Opti said:

Why couldn't it be her policy positions, her character or something else? My dislike of Trump has little to do with the fact he is a white man and everything to do with how he acts in the world to keep his own ego afloat.

Because you can put your finger on policy position disagreements or starting insurrections.

But before he actually ran all I had was I don't like the jerk, and didn't he fail at business? 4 years of being president I have a lot more to say, but back when he first ran? It was mostly "oh that asshole" why is he an asshole "I dunno, how is he not an asshole?"

[chiver78]

Oct 4, 2021 22:06:33 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 4, 2021 22:01:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Because you can put your finger on policy position disagreements or starting insurrections.

That's stupid to jump to it being racist.  There's plenty of white people I've come across over my lifetime that I don't like but don't really know why.  Sometimes people just rub you the wrong way. 

Like...now.  

👏👏👏👏

[chiver78]

Oct 4, 2021 21:54:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:38:31 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

As a heading for an entire thread?

I know chiver won't actually do it.

do you really think that's a constructive way to entice people to join an intelligent conversation? 🙄🤔 or are you just stirring the pot as you always seem to do. because you are very clearly showing your own true colors with how you continued to poke the bear in tagging missrigby for over 10 pages and offering up personal attacks along the way when she didn't engage.

if I didn't need to moderate bullshit like this once in awhile, you'd have been on ignore a long damn time ago. as I said last summer when I was your target du jour - find a fucking hobby.

back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[lurkyloo]

Oct 4, 2021 21:25:58 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 4, 2021 21:04:06 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Thank you chiver.

I am so deeply sad about all this.  

I will miss missrigby.

I can’t interpret what she said in a way that is not racist.  I am disappointed in her for saying it, and also for lashing out rather than taking a minute to consider whether she was in the wrong.

I am disappointed at the number of people that want to sweep it under the rug and scold those who are pointing out that this is not actually acceptable and that we are creating a „safe space“ at the expense of those who have been marginalized for centuries.

Not happy with myself for not advocating better either.  I found the remark offensive before I saw anyone calling it out, but waited for others to point out it wasn’t okay.  I don’t think anyone wins this one.

Really, because the way I read it, was this other lady was telling her, "hey I'm black and if I say this, then it's this". Maybe because Ive had a similar conversation at one time, or maybe I'm familiar with her style of writing.
Just like when someone else said something like, "pssh girl get outta here", or something like that, I knew it was affectionate and not dismissive like it was apparently taken.

Anyway, that's really all I got to say about this whole thing. I really dislike the attack vibe here, so I'll make my way out.

It’s possible that’s what she meant.  But it is very clearly not what she said.  If she wants to be judged on something other than what she said, then she needs to clarify her words, and apologize.  What she said clearly indicated that it was mr‘s judgement that her Black coworker was more qualified to gauge how ghetto something was, by virtue of being Black.  That is racist any way you slice it.

I absolutely don’t think the needling was helpful because no one is rational when they get attacked like that.  

Excusing racist comments without requiring clarification or apology is not okay.  It’s how we got to the point where Black and other POC wind up getting accidentally murdered (note oxymoron) at ridiculously high rates in police custody.  It’s how we get to police announcing that some asshole who shot up a spa run by Asian POC wasn’t actually racist, he was „just having a bad day.“ 

Peace out.

[Opti]

Oct 4, 2021 22:34:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

The original statement is right there. It isn't a style, it's a "subtle" form of racism. My mean thought is that if white people were half as concerned about ending racism as we were about being called a racist we'd be past these issues by now.

I think it would be or could be more constructive to talk about where and how we see and silently endorse racism and ways to fight that. Every study confirms racism is alive and well, and we are all complicit. I dont know how that is still ignored? Its similar to the bad drivers idea that everyone else is a shitty winter driver but the person recounting their harrowing drive is a perfect driver, but I don't get that either.

Would it have been better to write off the comment as being made by a little old white lady who couldn't have known better, because that isn't how I saw MissR. And while I'm not surprised at how quickly everything devolved I'm saddened at how quickly the attacks flew.

Im rambling, but things Im interested in discussing: How to call out offensive words and actions without falling into a white savior trope. How to do that in constructive ways so that the offender doesnt shut down without watering down the message. Confronting ways I've failed in the past and how to be better next time it happens.

I doubt that this thread is the place that will happen, but those are things I grapple with. Dealing with my own racism, trying not to pass it on to my kids, while acknowledging that I'm setting them up to grow up in practically the exact same white-centric childhood I had.

The majority of people who are truly racist have no interest in changing. So the people who can change are going to be on the margins. Some will say racist things because they don't know better or even because they don't realize what they said is racist. 

Calling things out, doesn't fix things. Fixing it does. So how can it be addressed in a constructive way?  If they did not intend to be racist, asking them did you mean it how it sounds? is not going to get the response you want. Especially if to them it does not sound racist. I had to be walked through it. Because I don't have the assumptions that some people have. 

[nidena]

What I've found is that when someone lives in a U.S. town or city that is predominantly white, ghetto indicates the poor part(s) of town.  When there is a higher diversity mix, ghetto indicates the non-white part of town which is almost always synonymous with poor due to gerrymandering, redlining, etc.

I see it often on Next Door.  Someone will post about shots being fired in certain neighborhoods and then there's comments about rif raf and ghetto and "keep those people out of here" which is all code for Black, brown, not white.

There was a statement about Karen's and "Ok, Boomer" and ghetto just being descriptions.  They absolutely are and most have very distinct images that come up when you hear or read the word/phrase.  There might be one-offs but the connotations are pretty consistent.  The irony is that white women get all offended and up in arms when they're called Karen as an insult and akin it to being called n***** with no regard to how much history goes into the n-word vs "Karen".

MissR was very much a Karen in her behavior of defending her behavior and then storming off.  And to address her "racist" coworkers...yeah, I'm gonna argue important semantics here because oppressed and marginalized folx can't be racist.  They can be prejudice but they don't have the power structure behind them to be racist.  Much like women can't be sexist.  And physically challenged people can't be ablist.

That's not to say they can't uphold the power structure of those things.  They just can't be -ist themselves.

I don't say ghetto.  I also don't say gypped, jerry-rigged, or jewed-down.  I've even recently stopped referring to my primary bedroom as the master bedroom.

Words matter and can convey deep meaning, implication, and history.

In the meantime, I'm going to go look up the history of those other words mentioned in MissR's post to see why they might have been specifically picked.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Oct 5, 2021 8:43:45 GMT -5 nidena said:

What I've found is that when someone lives in a U.S. town or city that is predominantly white, ghetto indicates the poor part(s) of town.  When there is a higher diversity mix, ghetto indicates the non-white part of town which is almost always synonymous with poor due to gerrymandering, redlining, etc.

I see it often on Next Door.  Someone will post about shots being fired in certain neighborhoods and then there's comments about rif raf and ghetto and "keep those people out of here" which is all code for Black, brown, not white.

There was a statement about Karen's and "Ok, Boomer" and ghetto just being descriptions.  They absolutely are and most have very distinct images that come up when you hear or read the word/phrase.  There might be one-offs but the connotations are pretty consistent.  The irony is that white women get all offended and up in arms when they're called Karen as an insult and akin it to being called n***** with no regard to how much history goes into the n-word vs "Karen".

MissR was very much a Karen in her behavior of defending her behavior and then storming off.  And to address her "racist" coworkers...yeah, I'm gonna argue important semantics here because oppressed and marginalized folx can't be racist.  They can be prejudice but they don't have the power structure behind them to be racist.  Much like women can't be sexist.  And physically challenged people can't be ablist.

That's not to say they can't uphold the power structure of those things.  They just can't be -ist themselves.

I don't say ghetto.  I also don't say gypped, jerry-rigged, or jewed-down.  I've even recently stopped referring to my primary bedroom as the master bedroom.

Words matter and can convey deep meaning, implication, and history.

In the meantime, I'm going to go look up the history of those other words mentioned in MissR's post to see why they might have been specifically picked.

Okay I am going to disagree with this one.  You absolutely CAN be those thing and still be part of a marginalized group.   Women are absolutely sexist when they come on here and say they have never experienced discrepeancy in pay for being female therefore any woman who complains about it is just being a whiny bitch who doesn't want to pull her way up by her bootstraps.  Or saying they will not hire women of child bearing age because they don't want to deal with maternity leave.   Yes BOTH of those have been said by a female poster here.

That is a woman being sexist there is nothing else you can call it.  I'll stick with that one because it's the one I am most familiar with.

I wish I could remember what book/s it was but here is an example.  I will never have as much power as a white straight man.  HOWEVER I am white and straight.   I can be convinced to go against my best interest as a woman AND help hold other women down in exchange for the crumbs I get for being white and straight.  It takes a lot of mental gymnastics but privilege is privilege and A LOT of people are not going to risk what little privilege they have in order to help fight for other people's rights to be at the table.


That's how you get people where you wonder how on Earth can they vote for a particular person when it's so obvious they go against their best interest.  They may go against my interest being female but they are promising to protect my white/straight privilege so I make a deal with the Devil.

Our society is very good at pitting people against each other.  Saying I can't be X because I am a woman is denying the very real societal messages I have absorbed as a woman.   I may not intentionally come off as sexist but if I find myself taking off my wedding band before an interview so they can't see I am married I am  propping up sexist norms and expectations.   

The proper response is the one I had in an interview where I flat out told the guy it's illegal to ask about my marital status.   I knew exactly what I was costing myself by speaking up because there is only one reason he would be asking those questions.   I've never seen someone turn so red in my life.  That indicated he was well aware of the direction his questions were going.

However being younger at time time I STILL, stupidly, reassured him when he started turning red and backtracking.  WTF am I trying to make him feel better about asking me illegal questions and making me uncomfortable?  Because I've been conditioned to do so by society.   I was doing it before I even realized what came out of my mouth.

If it happened today I would have gotten up, left and called HR to let them know what type of person they have interviewing people.   In my early 20's I wasn't that brave.   

Saying someone cannot possible be an -ism because of their skin color, gender, sex, orientation, disability ignores that we all grew up in a society where a certain type of person is the ideal. All our of institutions are based on that ideal.  We have to function in a society based on that ideal.  We've all absorbed the message whether we wanted to or not.

We have to examine what Y is and if it's really worth continuing to look the other way.  I also understand that the world is not 100% black or white there are many varying shades of grey that we have to deal with in a world where we need to survive.  I DID need a job which is why I back tracked when he got flustered and the interview starting going down hill.

But that doesn't make it right and telling myself I wasn't an active participate in the sexism going on because I'm female is rationalizing my behavior.  I have to acknowledge and accept my role in perpetuating sexism.   I've learned from it and I won't make the same mistake twice.

[Deleted]

Well, I’ve slept on it and it still bothers me. Later’s first couple of posts weren’t ugly. “Please tell me you didn’t mean that the way it sounds” is not ugly. Then Later said she accepts that Miss R probably didn’t mean to be offensive, then she explained what it sounded like she was saying. That wasn’t ugly either.

In MY first post, I said myself being gentle and saying that most of us have probably said something that was unintentionally offensive to someone. I even brought up that I’d done it here recently, but when that person received it in a way I did not mean, I explained what I meant. Another poster said they would’ve taken it the same way, and I said I understand how it could come across in a bad way, and I would be more mindful of the things I say and how they could come across in the written word. That poster was still upset with me, so I directly apologized.

I was giving MissR a roadmap of what I believed was an acceptable way to handle a situation when you unintentionally offend someone you like. When I intentionally offend somebody, I don’t explain shit and I do not apologize.

I didn’t say anything directly to MissR until she she said she was done and unbothered. So again, I tried to be graceful and respectfully say that if she refused to even consider that maybe she did say something wrong, we could just part ways, and I still wish her well. Trying to just end it right there, since neither of us was willing to back down.

To ME, that was not me ranting, which she later accused me of. It was my opinion that it was HER that was ranting and raving.

The next day, I was done with it, wasn’t going to say anything else about it. But then came another rant and people were trying to shut it down because THEY didn’t want to be bothered with reading the comments, and I got really aggravated. With MissR and some of the other posters. As if I was the one that inserted something ugly into the thread.

So, I tried to “play nice” when I first addressed it. I’m not sure what people expected me to do, other than shut the fuck up and accept that MissR can say whatever the hell she wants and have a bunch of temper tantrums in response to what started off as me and other posters gently telling her that what she’d said didn’t sound quite right. That doesn’t sit well with me at all. And now I’m looking at people sideways, and thinking they can kiss a funky bear’s big ass. 

The people that spoke up, probably do the same IRL. The people that shared how it felt to them when they were called out or corrected IRL are obviously willing to entertain the thought that they make mistakes sometimes. But a bunch of y’all are welcome to that funky bear’s big ass.

Now keep that same energy y’all had yesterday, when it didn’t matter if somebody says some crazy shit.

[gs11rmb]

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

[gs11rmb]

nidena what’s offensive about the term “jerry-rigged”? It has no racial or ethnic connotations.

[nidena]

Oct 5, 2021 9:33:23 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

nidena what’s offensive about the term “jerry-rigged”? It has no racial or ethnic connotations.

Jerry is a slur for German.

[gs11rmb]

Oct 5, 2021 9:41:49 GMT -5 nidena said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:33:23 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

nidena what’s offensive about the term “jerry-rigged”? It has no racial or ethnic connotations.

Jerry is a slur for German.

Jerry-rigged has nothing to do with Germans.

Also, Germans are famously detailed and well-organized…at least that’s the stereotype!

[nidena]

Oct 5, 2021 9:46:54 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:41:49 GMT -5 nidena said:

Jerry is a slur for German.

Jerry-rigged has nothing to do with Germans.

Also, Germans are famously detailed and well-organized…at least that’s the stereotype!

I'm merely explaining why *I* don't use it.

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 8:43:45 GMT -5 nidena said:

What I've found is that when someone lives in a U.S. town or city that is predominantly white, ghetto indicates the poor part(s) of town.  When there is a higher diversity mix, ghetto indicates the non-white part of town which is almost always synonymous with poor due to gerrymandering, redlining, etc.

I see it often on Next Door.  Someone will post about shots being fired in certain neighborhoods and then there's comments about rif raf and ghetto and "keep those people out of here" which is all code for Black, brown, not white.

There was a statement about Karen's and "Ok, Boomer" and ghetto just being descriptions.  They absolutely are and most have very distinct images that come up when you hear or read the word/phrase.  There might be one-offs but the connotations are pretty consistent.  The irony is that white women get all offended and up in arms when they're called Karen as an insult and akin it to being called n***** with no regard to how much history goes into the n-word vs "Karen".

MissR was very much a Karen in her behavior of defending her behavior and then storming off.  And to address her "racist" coworkers...yeah, I'm gonna argue important semantics here because oppressed and marginalized folx can't be racist.  They can be prejudice but they don't have the power structure behind them to be racist.  Much like women can't be sexist.  And physically challenged people can't be ablist.

That's not to say they can't uphold the power structure of those things.  They just can't be -ist themselves.

I don't say ghetto.  I also don't say gypped, jerry-rigged, or jewed-down.  I've even recently stopped referring to my primary bedroom as the master bedroom.

Words matter and can convey deep meaning, implication, and history.

In the meantime, I'm going to go look up the history of those other words mentioned in MissR's post to see why they might have been specifically picked.

I totally disagree with this. Bad behavior is bad behavior. The main reason we have not had a white woman or even part white woman as President or VP in this country is because there are apparently more sexist white women than there are white women who think its OK for a woman, any woman to be our President or VP. If you are judging solely on the basis of sex, you are sexist. If you allow behaviors to be OK or not OK based solely on race you are racist. The police who treat black people worse than white people are racist. So are the people who tell us N*a is OK to use if you are visually black, but its not OK if you are white or any other color. (And yes the former is much worse than the latter.)

To me Karen's are overly entitled people. I personally prefer that term isn't hijacked to also include bad racial behavior. Miss R was trying to explain herself and didn't do very well at it. She got upset enough at not being understood, she gave up. She's working in fast food. Her coworkers are mostly black. Prior to these recent posts, when she described some of the folks she focused on their behavior and character, not their race. And apparently the coworker defining what is ghetto to her is black. So she put that out as a qualification.
Not good. But how does she decide or convey why she trusts this person's word or definition of what is or isn't ghetto? IDK. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 5, 2021 9:30:53 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

I haven’t been posting much because I’ve been busy at work. I skimmed a little of this yesterday and just read through the whole thread. My take: Miss R said something offensive without realizing that she was doing so. All she had to do was say “I’m sorry that’s not what I meant and I apologize if I offended or hurt someone’s feelings”. I’m actually pretty stunned that she dug her heels in so hard and refused to back down.

Miss R did throw a tantrum. It seems extremely unfair that people who were either offended by the comment, in general, or who have actually experienced the word ‘ghetto’ being used to insult or hurt should be expected to just let it go and end the discussion. Other subjects can be discussed ad nauseum, why not this one?

I guess I'm just confused by the end goal of not letting it go.  Was it to force her through peer pressure to apologize?  How sincere is a forced apology anyhow?  Either you are sorry or you're not.

Honestly, my youngest does this all the time.  He'll be wrong, he knows he's wrong, but there is no freaking way he's going to admit it and the more you press the harder he fights you.  I've found if I point things out and let it go he really does listen and take it in and learn from my correction without the fight.

[Opti]

Oct 5, 2021 9:41:49 GMT -5 nidena said:

Oct 5, 2021 9:33:23 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

nidena what’s offensive about the term “jerry-rigged”? It has no racial or ethnic connotations.

Jerry is a slur for German.

Apparently it was a slur for Germans during the war(s) according to what little I read.


www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2019/12/jerry-rigged.html

Dec 13, 2019 · However, the expression “jerry-rigged” was in use for decades before anyone referred to German combatants as “Jerry.” We’ve found uses of “jerry-rigged” dating from the 1890s, when the “jerry” part simply meant badly made. As we wrote in a 2008 post, standard dictionaries now accept “jerry-rigged” as a legitimate usage.