I didn't mean to be racist, I'm just an idiot

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 10, 2021 9:48:39 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

so much that with the doubling down. I said the same yesterday. doubling down just shows your ass, IMHO.

Same can be said to you

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 11:14:06 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

White people are born with white privilege, where we want it or not.  

Men are also born with an advantage over women.  

I'm gonna take this even further on the privilege scale...
White
Male 
Cis-gender
Christian
Fully able-bodied
Married
Heterosexual
Educated

If you can check all those boxes, you're at the top of the privilege pack.  Not to say that you haven't had difficulties but the U.S. caters to you.  

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2021 13:47:01 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Perhaps it would be helpful if some hard work was done to draw a strong (somewhat artificial) distinction between "white supremacist" and "racist". I see a problem in that: "I don't walk around in a white hood and pronounce I am a member of the master race. I have black friends or at least they are acquaintances and coworkers. I voted for the other guys in 08 and 12 but it was based on the issues not race. I am certainly not a racist" blinds people to the underlying racist system that they have been raised into and perpetuate.

White supremacy and racism are pretty much the same spectrum.  White supremacy permeates EVERYTHING in the U.S. from the default color of bandaids to search engine results for "professional hair styles" to the fact that so many Black families have the last name Jefferson (or Washington or Adams, etc) due to direct involuntary lineage back to the THE Jefferson in our forefather clan.  But those who choose to remain ignorant can only connote the "white hoods and lynching" persona.

I might suggest that there is a somewhat artificial distinction between the two. The question is how to get people who would never engage in some white supremacist activities to not engage in any white supremacist activities.

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 14:03:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 10, 2021 13:47:01 GMT -5 nidena said:

White supremacy and racism are pretty much the same spectrum.  White supremacy permeates EVERYTHING in the U.S. from the default color of bandaids to search engine results for "professional hair styles" to the fact that so many Black families have the last name Jefferson (or Washington or Adams, etc) due to direct involuntary lineage back to the THE Jefferson in our forefather clan.  But those who choose to remain ignorant can only connote the "white hoods and lynching" persona.

I might suggest that there is a somewhat artificial distinction between the two. The question is how to get people who would never engage in some white supremacist activities to not engage in any white supremacist activities.

Anti-racism education would be my answer.

[buystoys]

Apr 10, 2021 13:52:24 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 11:14:06 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

White people are born with white privilege, where we want it or not.  

Men are also born with an advantage over women.  

I'm gonna take this even further on the privilege scale...
White
Male 
Cis-gender
Christian
Fully able-bodied
Married
Heterosexual
Educated

If you can check all those boxes, you're at the top of the privilege pack.  Not to say that you haven't had difficulties but the U.S. caters to you.  

Not only the U.S.  Many European countries have the same set up.

[Spellbound454]

OMG.... so much suffering.

You do know that half a million have died, horribly,..... in a pandemic ... Thats suffering. 

Exhausted medics are on their knees... and its taking all their strength just to face a new day ....... Thats suffering.

People are bereaved, people have post viral illnesses, people are lonely...... Thats suffering.


Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering.

If anyone wants any sympathy off me, they better get in the queue..... because right now its mighty long.

You can't throw words like "racist" about with such abandon.... Its horribly offensive.... and if anyone says that about me they had better have concrete proof
because there isn't a racist bone in my body. I have done nothing, to anyone.


It also detracts from real acts of racism which deserve our commitment to finding a solution.

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2021 14:10:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:03:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I might suggest that there is a somewhat artificial distinction between the two. The question is how to get people who would never engage in some white supremacist activities to not engage in any white supremacist activities.

Anti-racism education would be my answer.

Operationalize it for me. Delivered how? What curricula?

[Spellbound454]

.....and you know what I said about some kids having situations which would break your heart
There is no colour/gender quotient to that...... it can be anyone.... and when we know about it they'll get all the help they need.

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2021 14:56:14 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

OMG.... so much suffering.

You do know that half a million have died, horribly,..... in a pandemic ... Thats suffering. 

Exhausted medics are on their knees... and its taking all their strength just to face a new day ....... Thats suffering.

People are bereaved, people have post viral illnesses, people are lonely...... Thats suffering.


Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering.

If anyone wants any sympathy off me, they better get in the queue..... because right now its mighty long.

You can't throw words like "racist" about with such abandon.... Its horribly offensive.... and if anyone says that about me they had better have concrete proof
because there isn't a racist bone in my body. I have done nothing, to anyone.


It also detracts from real acts of racism which deserve our commitment to finding a solution.

It might come as a shock, but it isn't about you

[busymom]

Apr 10, 2021 13:52:24 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 11:14:06 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

White people are born with white privilege, where we want it or not.  

Men are also born with an advantage over women.  

I'm gonna take this even further on the privilege scale...
White
Male 
Cis-gender
Christian
Fully able-bodied
Married
Heterosexual
Educated

If you can check all those boxes, you're at the top of the privilege pack.  Not to say that you haven't had difficulties but the U.S. caters to you.  

     I'll agree with your list.  However, most of the MAGA folks I've met didn't continue their education after high school.  Maybe that's why they don't believe in science?  

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 14:56:14 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

OMG.... so much suffering.

You do know that half a million have died, horribly,..... in a pandemic ... Thats suffering. 

Exhausted medics are on their knees... and its taking all their strength just to face a new day ....... Thats suffering.

People are bereaved, people have post viral illnesses, people are lonely...... Thats suffering.


Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering.

If anyone wants any sympathy off me, they better get in the queue..... because right now its mighty long.

You can't throw words like "racist" about with such abandon.... Its horribly offensive.... and if anyone says that about me they had better have concrete proof
because there isn't a racist bone in my body. I have done nothing, to anyone.


It also detracts from real acts of racism which deserve our commitment to finding a solution.

Why contribute to the conversation if you're just going to have this kind of stance?  Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?  It's gotta be "sticks and stones" in your world or it doesn't count as wrong?

It seems like many others want to be better people and that starts with the small things, like not using words and phrases that are/can be considered microaggressions.

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 14:58:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:10:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

Anti-racism education would be my answer.

Operationalize it for me. Delivered how? What curricula?

In the case of me, I've been reading...articles, books, blog posts, threads like these.  And watching non-white savior movies--13th, When They See Us, Just Mercy.  And following anti-racist orgs on FB and LI--The Bail Project, The Innocence Project, No White Saviors.

YMMV

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 15:07:39 GMT -5 busymom said:

Apr 10, 2021 13:52:24 GMT -5 nidena said:

I'm gonna take this even further on the privilege scale...
White
Male 
Cis-gender
Christian
Fully able-bodied
Married
Heterosexual
Educated

If you can check all those boxes, you're at the top of the privilege pack.  Not to say that you haven't had difficulties but the U.S. caters to you.  

     I'll agree with your list.  However, most of the MAGA folks I've met didn't continue their education after high school.  Maybe that's why they don't believe in science?  

Maybe insert nepotism or friends in high places in place of education.  But you're derailing from the topic a bit with the science question.  If you're not, can you explain how it relates?

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2021 14:10:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:03:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I might suggest that there is a somewhat artificial distinction between the two. The question is how to get people who would never engage in some white supremacist activities to not engage in any white supremacist activities.

Anti-racism education would be my answer.

Apr 10, 2021 15:13:52 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:58:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Operationalize it for me. Delivered how? What curricula?

In the case of me, I've been reading...articles, books, blog posts, threads like these.  And watching non-white savior movies--13th, When They See Us, Just Mercy.  And following anti-racist orgs on FB and LI--The Bail Project, The Innocence Project, No White Saviors.

YMMV

So the way to get people to not engage in white supremacist activities is for you to read and watch things?

[chiver78]

Apr 10, 2021 13:47:52 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 10, 2021 9:48:39 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

so much that with the doubling down. I said the same yesterday. doubling down just shows your ass, IMHO.

Same can be said to you

bless your heart. 🙄

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 15:19:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:10:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

Anti-racism education would be my answer.

Apr 10, 2021 15:13:52 GMT -5 nidena said:

In the case of me, I've been reading...articles, books, blog posts, threads like these.  And watching non-white savior movies--13th, When They See Us, Just Mercy.  And following anti-racist orgs on FB and LI--The Bail Project, The Innocence Project, No White Saviors.

YMMV

So the way to get people to not engage in white supremacist activities is for you to read and watch things?

If people want to be educated, they'll seek it out.  If they don't, they won't.
And the means are already out there.  I can't change anyone else so I don't put energy into trying to make horses drink.
Online search engines are your friend.  Plug your question into your favorite and I'm sure numerous options will come up.
But, if you need spoon-feeding, here's a place to start, all curated by someone else more passionate than me about the topic: medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234

[TheOtherMe]

Apr 10, 2021 13:52:24 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 11:14:06 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

White people are born with white privilege, where we want it or not.  

Men are also born with an advantage over women.  

I'm gonna take this even further on the privilege scale...
White
Male 
Cis-gender
Christian
Fully able-bodied
Married
Heterosexual
Educated

If you can check all those boxes, you're at the top of the privilege pack.  Not to say that you haven't had difficulties but the U.S. caters to you.  

Thanks for finishing my list.  I was just getting started.

[TheOtherMe]

95% of my MAGA relatives are white, evangelicals with no more than a GED or high school education.

Some have college degrees but they were obtained from small schools that have mostly white student populations and they lived at home during college.

Most live within 30 minutes of where they were born and grew up and have rarely been around people who aren't like them.

[Spellbound454]

Why contribute to the conversation if you're just going to have this kind of stance? Gaslighting is just your thing, huh? It's gotta be "sticks and stones" in your world or it doesn't count as wrong?



It seems like many others want to be better people and that starts with the small things, like not using words and phrases that are/can be considered microaggressions.

Its a conversation, or did you want everyone to agree?



When there is a World of suffering going... on I'm not too bothered about perceived "microaggressions"...... That's a fair point, isn't it?



What is actually going to make a difference? ,,,, because I'm pretty sure turning yourself inside-out for something you haven't done.... is not particularly helpful.



Laws and punishments so that people can be protected. Equal opportunities ... support (financial/social/ mental)... secure jobs... decent housing... recreation ....healthcare.

This is what is going to make a difference to peoples lives.

[Opti]

Apr 10, 2021 15:24:20 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 15:19:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So the way to get people to not engage in white supremacist activities is for you to read and watch things?

If people want to be educated, they'll seek it out.  If they don't, they won't.
And the means are already out there.  I can't change anyone else so I don't put energy into trying to make horses drink.
Online search engines are your friend.  Plug your question into your favorite and I'm sure numerous options will come up.
But, if you need spoon-feeding, here's a place to start, all curated by someone else more passionate than me about the topic: medium.com/equality-includes-you/what-white-people-can-do-for-racial-justice-f2d18b0e0234

I found this in your link and watched because I think Amber Ruffin is a great comic. It was sad to hear these stories as they are worse than the driving while Asian ones I have been told. 

[thyme4change]

Apr 9, 2021 22:14:44 GMT -5 imawino said:

Apr 8, 2021 0:21:59 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Today at the grocery store, I bought a jicama. The cashier said "I learned this one - it is a jicama! In my country it is called {{some word I didn't hear, and I can't remember}}". She said "When I came here, I had to ask what it is called in English."

I said "I wonder if it has a true English name, jicima is...." at this point my mouth was forming the word Mexican, because I was thinking that was the origin of the vegetable (which come to think of it, it may not be originally Mexican.) I was able to stop myself and change to Spanish referring to the etymology of the word.

However, this brain fart is the exact type of thing where I say inappropriate things - sometimes racist, sometimes stupid, sometimes rude.

Do you do this kind of dumb ass stuff? Do you have any funny stories about it? Tell us!

So I have to start this story with a disclaimer.  I am going to use a word that I would never say on purpose or in  reference to a people.  Well, obviously I did use it in real life, but hopefully this story won't be as offensive as I am slightly afraid it will be, so here goes.

I have a dog.  He is super duper amazing, but that's for another time.  Anyway, you know how when you have a dog you call them nicknames and they evolve into other stupid versions of the nickname?  Like everyone has called their dog Pup, which evolved into Pups, Puppy, Puppers, etc.  So my amazing dog I sometimes call Bean.  My sweet little baby bean, my little beanie-weenie, etc.  

One night I'm standing in the backyard calling to him "Bean!  Beans!! Beanie!!  Beaner!!"  I've hollered that out about 5 times before actually HEARING it come from my mouth and realizing that shouting, "Beaner, come!"  at top volume in my suburban backyard is so not at all what I want to be doing.  ugh

My cat was named Jellybean, I called her beaner. We lived in a neighborhood that was about 40% Mexican, including our next door neighbors (who we loved). Jellybean was pure white, and I originally wanted to name her cracker or biligaana. My husband thought that was too offensive. In the end he agreed those might have been better choices. 🙄

[Opti]

Funny video mocking white savior movies. Seth Meyers and Amber Ruffin

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2021 22:33:41 GMT -5 imawino said:

Apr 9, 2021 3:29:03 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

You can't get away with being offensive and then just telling people they aren't allowed to take offense.  

Look, I do think intent matters.  But if you say something offensive and someone points it out and your response is to just double down and let them know their feelings are irrelevant and stupid, well....now you've made your intent very clear.

I’ve typed several posts to respond to things in this thread, but I deleted them every time, with the intention of letting you all duke it out amongst yourselves.

Anyway, I also agree that intent matters. I’ve had people say things that were offensive, and I realized they weren’t trying to offend. I’ve told men that were talking about how women “are”.... “you DO realize you’re talking to a woman, right?” And listened to them fumble around and try to express that they really meant “some” or even “most” women. Ummm.... okay.

My first job at 17, I had a white coworker that had obviously spent a lot of time around black people. It was clear from the way she spoke and the things she talked about. One day, in a conversation, she used the word “n***a”. After my head stopped spinning and my mind stopped asking “did she REALLY just say what I thought she did?!”, because yes, she did..... I realized that she’d said it with no malice, and used it the same way black folks that use the word do. So I gave her a pass.

I know the difference between a person who is clueless or ignorant and one that means to offend. I’ve encountered all of them in my life, and I deal with each accordingly. I don’t go looking for problems where none exist, I’m willing to check myself before I decide a person is a racist vs ignorant or even just an asshole in general.

At my age now, I expect more from people in my age group. I might give you (general you) a pass, but I’m going to address what you said first. I do it all the time with people that use slurs to refer to gay men. I call people on it and make it clear that if they want to engage in conversation with ME, they’ll do it without the slurs. I don’t accept feigned ignorance either, because I refuse to pretend that those words are not used to be derogatory or demeaning. And every time I’ve heard them from a straight person, that has absolutely been the intent. So, nah, that doesn’t fly with me, I don’t care who is speaking. I’ve called a white man that was my supervisor out on that, with NO hesitation, and meant everything I said to him at the time. I do that because imo, it’s no different from the derogatory and demeaning words and phrases people use for minorities. And just like I expect the majority in this country to stand up for what’s right IRT to minorities, I feel that it’s my duty to stand with and up for the LGBT community when and where I can. I feel like me being a heterosexual just might make more of an impact than a LGBT trying to make the same or a similar point, because as a heterosexual, I don’t really have a dog in the fight since it doesn’t affect me personally.

And in that same way, white people absolutely have the power to influence how minorities are treated, even if they do nothing more than taking a stand and calling people out on their shit in everyday interactions and encounters. I feel like the message tends to be better received when it comes from someone that is “like” the receiver enough that they can’t be considered a person trying to be a special snowflake.

But that’s just me and how I think. Make of it whatever you will.

I do appreciate that some of you are willing to learn, even if learning and doing better means stepping outside of your comfort zones. I’m all for growth as individuals, including myself. I honestly believe that’s the only way we can ever hope to resolve some of the persistent issues in our country. This is a nation made up of individuals after all, and how we think and what we do as individuals absolutely affects the big picture. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong.

[Deleted]

Apr 10, 2021 7:40:24 GMT -5 nidena said:

Rereading these pages...

I don't think it would be out of the ordinary for someone to pick up on the underlying misogyny or racism in the U.S. language: so much of it stems from those roots.  I think it just feels like someone is being "extra", now, because it can feel like an onslaught.

It's kind of like when you get a new car and then you start noticing just how many other people have that car.  When you start educating yourself about racism, you become more aware of the coded language, from subtle to brick-upside-your-head-obvious.

It might have to be exhausting to *hear* about all the ways that we speak words with racist undertones but I imagine it's nothing compared to living in a racist world.

And I'm with imawino in regards to doubling down.  If someone says I said "xyz", I'll amend and find better ways to express myself.  Much like it doesn't kill me to have my pronouns on my LinkedIn profile.

I'd rather adapt and be accepted by those with less privilege then keep the status quo that skews racist, sexist, and all other -ists.

Although I know I have a long way to go with my understanding of racism in our world, the last 2-3 years have been really educational for me and DH, perhaps because it's no longer a hidden undertone, but a daily, in-your-face reality.  

[laterbloomer]

Apr 10, 2021 16:00:35 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

First of all, mature people are capable of being concerned about more than one thing at a time. Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking.

Second of all, awareness is one of the most powerful weapons around to change things. There are a lot of us that have been unintentionally supporting the status quo. We would be the ones that use to fall for the stupid kind of arguments against social justice that you are spewing here. There is an army of us that want to live in a world of equality and social justice. Having us woke and weaponised is the establishment"s worst nightmare. That's why they are behaving like cornered rats right now.

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 15:55:39 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

95% of my MAGA relatives are white, evangelicals with no more than a GED or high school education.

Some have college degrees but they were obtained from small schools that have mostly white student populations and they lived at home during college.

Most live within 30 minutes of where they were born and grew up and have rarely been around people who aren't like them.

I think you described most of your state.  And mine.

[jerseygirl]

Apr 10, 2021 19:38:31 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 15:55:39 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

95% of my MAGA relatives are white, evangelicals with no more than a GED or high school education.

Some have college degrees but they were obtained from small schools that have mostly white student populations and they lived at home during college.

Most live within 30 minutes of where they were born and grew up and have rarely been around people who aren't like them.

I think you described most of your state.  And mine.

Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?!

[chiver78]

Apr 10, 2021 15:10:17 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 10, 2021 14:56:14 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

OMG.... so much suffering.

You do know that half a million have died, horribly,..... in a pandemic ... Thats suffering. 

Exhausted medics are on their knees... and its taking all their strength just to face a new day ....... Thats suffering.

People are bereaved, people have post viral illnesses, people are lonely...... Thats suffering.


Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering.

If anyone wants any sympathy off me, they better get in the queue..... because right now its mighty long.

You can't throw words like "racist" about with such abandon.... Its horribly offensive.... and if anyone says that about me they had better have concrete proof
because there isn't a racist bone in my body. I have done nothing, to anyone.


It also detracts from real acts of racism which deserve our commitment to finding a solution.

Why contribute to the conversation if you're just going to have this kind of stance?  Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?  It's gotta be "sticks and stones" in your world or it doesn't count as wrong?

It seems like many others want to be better people and that starts with the small things, like not using words and phrases that are/can be considered microaggressions.

she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷‍♀️

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 19:55:15 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Apr 10, 2021 19:38:31 GMT -5 nidena said:

I think you described most of your state.  And mine.

Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?!

Describing a person's faith, education level, and where they've lived is dissing now?

60% of Indiana has no more than a high school diploma.
70% are Christian (with just under half of that being evangelical)
Statistics for those who've never left the state are too vague to find but I do know that most of my own IN family has NOT lived elsewhere.

Then there's the fact that nearly 60% of Indiana voted for Trump.

I have no way of knowing if there's a correlation but one can assume based on MANY of my day to day interactions with people. 

However, I still don't get where you conclude I was dissing anyone?  But I won't dispute your feelings.  If that's what you feel I did, then I did.  I will also say that most of the folks whom I've encountered who voted for Trump have no inclination to educate themselves about the shit going on in this country.  They put the victim status on themselves because their comfort zones within the white supremacy spectrum are being tested now.

[chiver78]

Apr 10, 2021 19:17:46 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 10, 2021 16:00:35 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

First of all, mature peopke are capable of being concerned about more than one thing at a time. Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking.

Second of all, awareness is one of the most powerful weapons around to change things. There are a lot of us that have been unintentionally supporting the status quo. We would be the ones that use to fall for the stupid kind of arguments against social justice that you are spewing here. There is an army of us that want to live in a world of equality and social justice. Having us woke and weaponised is the establishment"s worst nightmare. That's why they are behaving like cornered rats right now.

have I told you lately, that I love you? 🎵🎶