I didn't mean to be racist, I'm just an idiot

[Spellbound454]

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 0:08:54 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Mid-January, I was in a class via Zoom.

You know how on here when someone writes a phrase or sentence one way and another poster will quote it, strike through a portion, and retype it a different way that (usually) alters the meaning to what the subsequent poster wants to say, and then the subsequent poster says “fixed”?

Well, I did that in the Zoom chat. And a third person announced that I was being racist because the person I did it to is black. Since I’m who’re, I was squashing that person’s voice. When I pointed out that, while what I did may have been uncouth, possibly unprofessional, I’d have done it to regardless of the color of the person’s skin, I was told I wasn’t listening.

This is called white fragility. I (the white person) got offended when I was called out in my behavior toward a POC. I do acknowledge that white fragility exists. I’m just still not sure how I was being racist when it was a behavior choice I made regardless of who actually said it.

I’m—as you all know—a super over sensitive person. We’re three months out from that scenario, and I’m still confused and hurt about it.

Sorry but when we define everything as racist, nothing is racist. While I don’t agree with what you did, you didn’t do it because the person was black. I believe white people being called racist over everything is actually racist. Would the reaction be the same if you were black?

I try to be a good person in life and treat everyone the same. I’m not going to bend over backwards for those who see racism in every action of a white person.

We have definitely gone overboard.

[raeoflyte]

Intent doesn't matter though in 99% of situations, impact does. The person with the good/non-harmful intent doesn't get to tell the person impacted they're feelings are wrong simply because they didn't intend to be hurtful. We show that our intentions were good by changing our actions.

I think most of us have been on the impact side with some situation/person. If that was a near constant reality, of course the impact adds up.

[nidena]

Knee Deep in Water Chloe, all you can do is not do it again.  Did you "Hey, I'm really not sure what I did wrong but I'm sincerely sorry if it caused offense and will learn from it." to the person whom you "fixed" their quote?

There isn't enough context, for the board, to really know the situation.

I quit a non-profit last month because of a situation that started out with a Woman of Color feeling dismissed by a (white) Keynote speaker's answer to her question.  Long story VERY, VERY short: I didn't like how they handled things during what is obviously a growth period for them so I bid them adieu.

As for Master/slave, that is a difficult one.  I mean, if you're in "the scene", it would still be an acceptable title.  I have started saying Primary bedroom instead of master bedroom.  I don't say slave driver.

Language changes so much.  20 years ago, nobody had heard the term bootylicious (song came out in 2002) but now it's in the dictionary.  Then there's the different meanings from country to country: fanny is an innocuous term in the U.S. but, to my understanding, it's a "dirty" word in the UK.

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 7:46:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Intent doesn't matter though in 99% of situations, impact does. The person with the good/non-harmful intent doesn't get to tell the person impacted they're feelings are wrong simply because wasn't intended to be hurtful. We show that our intentions were good by changing our actions.

I think most of us have been on the impact side with some situation/person. If that was a near constant reality, of course the impact adds up.

What she did was rude so I get the person being hurt. But that doesn’t make it racist.

[TheOtherMe]

Apr 9, 2021 7:46:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Intent doesn't matter though in 99% of situations, impact does. The person with the good/non-harmful intent doesn't get to tell the person impacted they're feelings are wrong simply because they didn't intend to be hurtful. We show that our intentions were good by changing our actions.

I think most of us have been on the impact side with some situation/person. If that was a near constant reality, of course the impact adds up.

To some extent, all of us are racist.  And we don't get to tell someone else that our words should not hurt their feelings.

White people will never know what Black people have gone through--over time, over their life and now.  

I now have one of my Black friends tell me when I have said something offensive to her.  I had no idea how some of my words were perceived.

It's past time we get it right.  That goes for every person of color or other minority groups.  

[raeoflyte]

Apr 9, 2021 7:51:00 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 9, 2021 7:46:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Intent doesn't matter though in 99% of situations, impact does. The person with the good/non-harmful intent doesn't get to tell the person impacted they're feelings are wrong simply because wasn't intended to be hurtful. We show that our intentions were good by changing our actions.

I think most of us have been on the impact side with some situation/person. If that was a near constant reality, of course the impact adds up.

What she did was rude so I get the person being hurt. But that doesn’t make it racist.

She didn't intend it to be racist, but that doesn't mean that the impact wasn't.

I am certain Chloe didn't meant it that way, but we know that POC are dismissed and not even given the floor, so its still worth taking the coworker at her word.

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 8:17:20 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Apr 9, 2021 7:51:00 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

What she did was rude so I get the person being hurt. But that doesn’t make it racist.

She didn't intend it to be racist, but that doesn't mean that the impact wasn't.

I am certain Chloe didn't meant it that way, but we know that POC are dismissed and not even given the floor, so its still worth taking the coworker at her word.

Some people are dismissive. That doesn’t make it racist if they dismiss a black person and not racist when they dismiss a white person. It was rude and I would go so far as to say unprofessional but just because she did it to a black person doesn’t make it racist. The fact that the blacks person believes it to be racist doesn’t make it so.

What I’m learning from this board is I’m supposed to treat blacks people different than I do white people. Isn’t that racist?

[nidena]

Apr 9, 2021 3:29:03 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

Who gets to define "easily"?  

You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement.  Just because you're not offended by something doesn't mean something isn't offensive.  Many people have been conditioned to deal with BS just to survive; doesn't mean it isn't BS.  

Should women have to continue to deal with hands on their asses just because that's how it was for...ever?  Should PoC have to continue to deal with racist language just because it's woven into how so many people speak?

No.  They shouldn't.

[chiver78]

if (general) you makes a comment you feel isn't offensive, and you are told that it wasn't received that way....isn't it on you to learn from that and adjust your words? if you continue to use those words, then you're digging in your heels to "prove" that you are right when all you've managed to accomplish is the exact opposite in showing your ass. and what rae said - "but we know that POC are dismissed and not even given the floor, so its still worth taking the coworker at her word." 

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 8:32:42 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

if (general) you makes a comment you feel isn't offensive, and you are told that it wasn't received that way....isn't it on you to learn from that and adjust your words? if you continue to use those words, then you're digging in your heels to "prove" that you are right when all you've managed to accomplish is the exact opposite in showing your ass. and what rae said - "but we know that POC are dismissed and not even given the floor, so its still worth taking the coworker at her word." 

Again, you are asking for different treatment of a black person. My feelings could get hurt by someone but that doesn’t mean their words are mysoginistic. It is when people treat a person differently because they are black that it becomes racist. A man treating me different because I’m a woman is sexist. But I’ve seen people that are assholes to everyone but in today’s world we have to label it as more than being an asshole, depending on the other person involved

We have gotten to the point that every slight towards a blacks person is now racist. I’m disagreeing. What Chloe did was rude but I’m going to trust what she said and that she would have done the same thing if it were a white person.

Maybe the focus should be on not being rude in meetings is read of trying to make everything racist.

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 8:23:28 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 9, 2021 3:29:03 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

Who gets to define "easily"?  

You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement.  Just because you're not offended by something doesn't mean something isn't offensive.  Many people have been conditioned to deal with BS just to survive; doesn't mean it isn't BS.  

Should women have to continue to deal with hands on their asses just because that's how it was for...ever?  Should PoC have to continue to deal with racist language just because it's woven into how so many people speak?

No.  They shouldn't.

I’m not sure how being rude in a meeting equates to a woman being touched or racist words being used? To you not see how ridiculous that leap sounds?

[steph08]

Apr 9, 2021 7:46:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Intent doesn't matter though in 99% of situations, impact does. The person with the good/non-harmful intent doesn't get to tell the person impacted they're feelings are wrong simply because they didn't intend to be hurtful. We show that our intentions were good by changing our actions.

I think most of us have been on the impact side with some situation/person. If that was a near constant reality, of course the impact adds up.

My only problem with Chloe's scenario is that a third person called it racist. Was the POC offended/impacted? Were they bothered by it or was it just the third person who really had no skin in the game? 

[chiver78]

Apr 9, 2021 8:43:01 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 9, 2021 8:32:42 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

if (general) you makes a comment you feel isn't offensive, and you are told that it wasn't received that way....isn't it on you to learn from that and adjust your words? if you continue to use those words, then you're digging in your heels to "prove" that you are right when all you've managed to accomplish is the exact opposite in showing your ass. and what rae said - "but we know that POC are dismissed and not even given the floor, so its still worth taking the coworker at her word." 

Again, you are asking for different treatment of a black person. My feelings could get hurt by someone but that doesn’t mean their words are mysoginistic. It is when people treat a person differently because they are black that it becomes racist. A man treating me different because I’m a woman is sexist. But I’ve seen people that are assholes to everyone but in today’s world we have to label it as more than being an asshole, depending on the other person involved

We have gotten to the point that every slight towards a blacks person is now racist. I’m disagreeing. What Chloe did was rude but I’m going to trust what she said and that she would have done the same thing if it were a white person.

Maybe the focus should be on not being rude in meetings is read of trying to make everything racist.

I know I referred to rae's comment about Chloe, but perhaps wasn't clear in that the rest of my comment was in general. as in general "you" etc. I'll be clearer here. you (in particular) take great pride in not being a "weak woman" in those words in some posts over the years. so because you (in particular doesn't find offense in some clearly misogynistic statement by a guy doesn't mean it isn't misogynistic. I don't understand why you (in particular) doesn't see the value in learning about people different from themselves, be it gender, race, whatever. there was a time when ethnic slurs were commonplace. Japs, Guineas, Polocks, etc. I can't imagine you would use any of them today, because they aren't acceptable anymore. that they never should have been is a different discussion, but society has learned that slurs are insulting. 

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 8:56:36 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Apr 9, 2021 8:43:01 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Again, you are asking for different treatment of a black person. My feelings could get hurt by someone but that doesn’t mean their words are mysoginistic. It is when people treat a person differently because they are black that it becomes racist. A man treating me different because I’m a woman is sexist. But I’ve seen people that are assholes to everyone but in today’s world we have to label it as more than being an asshole, depending on the other person involved

We have gotten to the point that every slight towards a blacks person is now racist. I’m disagreeing. What Chloe did was rude but I’m going to trust what she said and that she would have done the same thing if it were a white person.

Maybe the focus should be on not being rude in meetings is read of trying to make everything racist.

I know I referred to rae's comment about Chloe, but perhaps wasn't clear in that the rest of my comment was in general. as in general "you" etc. I'll be clearer here. you (in particular) take great pride in not being a "weak woman" in those words in some posts over the years. so because you (in particular doesn't find offense in some clearly misogynistic statement by a guy doesn't mean it isn't misogynistic. I don't understand why you (in particular) doesn't see the value in learning about people different from themselves, be it gender, race, whatever. there was a time when ethnic slurs were commonplace. Japs, Guineas, Polocks, etc. I can't imagine you would use any of them today, because they aren't acceptable anymore. that they never should have been is a different discussion, but society has learned that slurs are insulting. 

Because you are expecting different treatment depending on the race or sex of the people involved. I’ve been in meetings when the same person will be an asshole to a white male and female. They are both wrong but only one could cry mysogyny (I’m blanking on spelling!). Unless the asshat in the meeting treats women different than he treats the men, it isn’t sexism or misogyny. Same white make could be an asshole to a white and black person. Both are wrong but only one would get him accused of racism

What some of you on this board are saying is that we need to treat people different based on the color of their skin. I’m not ok with that. What Chloe did was wrong, but unless she would not have done it to a white person, it isn’t racist

When we start turning everything into racism, we lose true racism. It’s like the little boy who cried wolf. Everyone but the activists are going to start tuning it out. If my kid cried over every little thing, I would say the issue was them and not everyone else.

[Lizard Queen]

What's worse is that it can lead to avoidance. If an little thing I say to someone of a different race could be taken as racist, I'm probably just going to interact less with them, and that really is racist.

[chiver78]

that's actually the opposite of what everybody on this board is saying. treat everyone with respect, and when you are told that your words are disrespectful, check yourself. how is that difficult?      what some on this board are quite obstinately refusing to acknowledge is that there is racism and misogyny. 

I can see I'm wasting my time, though. enjoy your day. 

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 10:15:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

What's worse is that it can lead to avoidance. If an little thing I say to someone of a different race could be taken as racist, I'm probably just going to interact less with them, and that really is racist.

I was going to say that but I knew I would get attacked!lol. But I had the same thiught. Why would I want to interact with someone who thought every little slight was racism?

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 10:17:18 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

that's actually the opposite of what everybody on this board is saying. treat everyone with respect, and when you are told that your words are disrespectful, check yourself. how is that difficult?      what some on this board are quite obstinately refusing to acknowledge is that there is racism and misogyny. 

I can see I'm wasting my time, though. enjoy your day. 

No, I’m not disagreeing that there is misogyny and racism. I’m saying if a person treats two people rudely without caring about the sex or race, then it is not misogyny or racist. I’m not the one refusing to acknowledge that not every slight in this world is racist or mysogynistic.

[billisonboard]

I don't treat blacks. I treat, as two examples, "J" and "W". I treat them not as black men but as "J" and "W". I have learned their background stories and know their current situations. "W" and I usually talk theater. Occasionally the topic of race comes up and I do a lot of listening. "J" and I do a fair amount of discussion concerning equity issues. He is professionally involved in it. "W" it is just personal. Whenever a new person comes into my life, I treat them generically until I know more about who they are. I end up treating them differently based on what I learn. 

With you clowns posting here on this anonymous message board it is different story. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2021 10:19:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 9, 2021 10:15:36 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

What's worse is that it can lead to avoidance. If an little thing I say to someone of a different race could be taken as racist, I'm probably just going to interact less with them, and that really is racist.

I was going to say that but I knew I would get attacked!lol. But I had the same thiught. Why would I want to interact with someone who thought every little slight was racism?

Because there is a growth opportunity for both of you.

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 11:00:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 10:19:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I was going to say that but I knew I would get attacked!lol. But I had the same thiught. Why would I want to interact with someone who thought every little slight was racism?

Because there is a growth opportunity for both of you.

Perhaps. But I don’t choose to surround myself with people who read into everything. I’m no longer in a position of power at a company so my views don’t matter at this point. But I would definitely have been avoiding the person who saw racism or misogyny in everything when I was working.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2021 11:00:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 10:19:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I was going to say that but I knew I would get attacked!lol. But I had the same thiught. Why would I want to interact with someone who thought every little slight was racism?

Because there is a growth opportunity for both of you.

Apr 9, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Perhaps. But I don’t choose to surround myself with people who read into everything. I’m no longer in a position of power at a company so my views don’t matter at this point. But I would definitely have been avoiding the person who saw racism or misogyny in everything when I was working.

You indicated "every little slight". They could be working to properly identify the motivation for slights and you could be working on not slighting others.

[Lizard Queen]

Apr 9, 2021 11:00:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 10:19:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I was going to say that but I knew I would get attacked!lol. But I had the same thiught. Why would I want to interact with someone who thought every little slight was racism?

Because there is a growth opportunity for both of you.

Is it? That depends. As someone shy/introverted, it's hard enough just to get the courage to speak to people sometimes. Then if I'm chastised for saying something fairly innocuous, or like Chloe's example--something like I'd do with anyone else, I'm just not going to reach out any more.

[Opti]

Apr 9, 2021 0:08:54 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Mid-January, I was in a class via Zoom.

You know how on here when someone writes a phrase or sentence one way and another poster will quote it, strike through a portion, and retype it a different way that (usually) alters the meaning to what the subsequent poster wants to say, and then the subsequent poster says “fixed”?

Well, I did that in the Zoom chat. And a third person announced that I was being racist because the person I did it to is black. Since I’m who’re, I was squashing that person’s voice. When I pointed out that, while what I did may have been uncouth, possibly unprofessional, I’d have done it to regardless of the color of the person’s skin, I was told I wasn’t listening.

This is called white fragility. I (the white person) got offended when I was called out in my behavior toward a POC. I do acknowledge that white fragility exists. I’m just still not sure how I was being racist when it was a behavior choice I made regardless of who actually said it.

I’m—as you all know—a super over sensitive person. We’re three months out from that scenario, and I’m still confused and hurt about it.

I think one thing that can be tough in things like this is you might both be right. You might do this to everyone and its uncouth behavior not racist for you. The person on the receiving end may have had it happen too frequently and notice that overall there is a racial component in practice when it happens to them. For this at least, its a nice simple solution. Resolve to not do it to anyone again. 

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 11:36:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 11:00:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Because there is a growth opportunity for both of you.

Apr 9, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Perhaps. But I don’t choose to surround myself with people who read into everything. I’m no longer in a position of power at a company so my views don’t matter at this point. But I would definitely have been avoiding the person who saw racism or misogyny in everything when I was working.

You indicated "every little slight". They could be working to properly identify the motivation for slights and you could be working on not slighting others.

But I’m not the one slighting others. If Chloe disrespected someone, regardless of race, it would have been addressed. Not once did I say Chloe wasn’t wrong for what she did. But in no way was it racist. It would be a learning point for Chloe and I wouldn’t have a clue how to handle it with the person claiming racism. In today’s world, if you don’t agree that everything is racist, it is your job that is on the line.

All I can say is I had a person that worked for me that was offended over everything (she was white). It got to the point that you recognize that she is just a person who wants to see the bad in everyone. Time came when we had layoffs and I had to get rid of one person from my department. I selected her without hesitation because she was just a pain in my ass by that point. There was a sigh of relief from everyone because everyone was sick of her and her pettiness.

[susana1954]

I don't see Knee Deep in Water Chloe's behavior as rude.  It was group-write, which in itself is a horrible concept.  But she is allowed to edit as part of that process.  The person can protest, but it shouldn't be based on race but rather that Chloe subverted his/her meaning in her edit.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 8, 2021 8:03:59 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I get caught on phrases I never knew the origins of. Note I don't know what's wrong with long time no see. And a bunch of things I don't mean anything by but people have had bad experiences with. My new job is extremely progressive and gives ongoing training on this stuff, which I'm all for. Anyway, last week I learned not to ask people I don't know well where they are from. (I tend to do that when they have accents) It implies that people are not Canadian. Not even remotely what I mean when I ask but apparently it's how it gets taken.

I met a lovely black and white pit bull yesterday. I said to the owner "I detect a very slight accent. Germany?"
"Yes! How did you guess?" Anyway, he was from Berlin, and we had a very nice chat about techno music from Germany. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.

One of my neighbours is from Uganda, here to do his PhD. Yes, I asked. He spoke about how much he hated his first winter here, and cried almost every day, because he thought he made the worst mistake of his life. "I didn't think cold like this could exist!" That led to a great conversation about African food and music. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.
I don't know.....asking people where they're from can lead to some pretty interesting conversations. 
When French people ask me where I'm from, because I speak French with a slight Russian accent, I don't find it insulting.

[Opti]

Apr 9, 2021 13:14:47 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 8, 2021 8:03:59 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I get caught on phrases I never knew the origins of. Note I don't know what's wrong with long time no see. And a bunch of things I don't mean anything by but people have had bad experiences with. My new job is extremely progressive and gives ongoing training on this stuff, which I'm all for. Anyway, last week I learned not to ask people I don't know well where they are from. (I tend to do that when they have accents) It implies that people are not Canadian. Not even remotely what I mean when I ask but apparently it's how it gets taken.

I met a lovely black and white pit bull yesterday. I said to the owner "I detect a very slight accent. Germany?"
"Yes! How did you guess?" Anyway, he was from Berlin, and we had a very nice chat about techno music from Germany. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.

One of my neighbours is from Uganda, here to do his PhD. Yes, I asked. He spoke about how much he hated his first winter here, and cried almost every day, because he thought he made the worst mistake of his life. "I didn't think cold like this could exist!" That led to a great conversation about African food and music. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.
I don't know.....asking people where they're from can lead to some pretty interesting conversations. 
When French people ask me where I'm from, because I speak French with a slight Russian accent, I don't find it insulting.

I think its because some people want to prove someone doesn't belong wherever or in certain cases they are more right about you than you are. On the Not Always Right website it comes up regularly in stories.

notalwaysright.com/extreme-foreign-interests/77978/
notalwaysright.com/where-are-they-from-from/30283/

[Opti]

Apr 9, 2021 12:59:40 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I don't see Knee Deep in Water Chloe 's behavior as rude.  It was group-write, which in itself is a horrible concept.  But she is allowed to edit as part of that process.  The person can protest, but it shouldn't be based on race but rather that Chloe subverted his/her meaning in her edit.

I must have missed that part, the group-write.