chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 10, 2021 20:15:08 GMT -5
I think you described most of your state. And mine. Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?! not half, just slightly half, thankfully. ❤ |
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 10, 2021 20:15:16 GMT -5
Why contribute to the conversation if you're just going to have this kind of stance? Gaslighting is just your thing, huh? It's gotta be "sticks and stones" in your world or it doesn't count as wrong? It seems like many others want to be better people and that starts with the small things, like not using words and phrases that are/can be considered microaggressions. she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷♀️ I'll be sure to tell my biracial friend it's all in her head, that racism that she's experiencing over there. smh. |
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 10, 2021 20:16:20 GMT -5
I think you described most of your state. And mine. Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?! Yes, there are those of us who have zero respect for every single person who observed how Donald Trump behaved as President of our nation and voted in 2020 to have him continue in office. |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 10, 2021 20:19:36 GMT -5
ETA: this is re:nidena, last page.
for real. I may be a straight, cis-pasty white girl, but my loved ones run the lgbtq+ spectrum and melanin rainbow, both blood and chosen family. fuck anyone that doesn't respect them as human beings living their best lives. I respect everyone until presented with a reason not to. I wish more did.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 21:22:30 GMT -5
Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?! Yes, there are those of us who have zero respect for every single person who observed how Donald Trump behaved as President of our nation and voted in 2020 to have him continue in office. I am PinkCashmere, and I approve this message!  |
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Apr 10, 2021 21:44:01 GMT -5
Ummmh half of the voters voted for Trump - are you dissing all of them?! Yes, there are those of us who have zero respect for every single person who observed how Donald Trump behaved as President of our nation and voted in 2020 to have him continue in office. I have never agreed with you more about anything. |
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 10, 2021 22:42:30 GMT -5
OMG.... so much suffering.  You do know that half a million have died, horribly,..... in a pandemic ... Thats suffering. Exhausted medics are on their knees... and its taking all their strength just to face a new day ....... Thats suffering. People are bereaved, people have post viral illnesses, people are lonely...... Thats suffering. Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering. If anyone wants any sympathy off me, they better get in the queue..... because right now its mighty long. You can't throw words like "racist" about with such abandon.... Its horribly offensive.... and if anyone says that about me they had better have concrete proof because there isn't a racist bone in my body. I have done nothing, to anyone. It also detracts from real acts of racism which deserve our commitment to finding a solution. People are dying, that is so true. Did you know that black people are disproportionately more negatively impacted by the pandemic? Dying at a higher rate? Am I allowed to care about them now? Honestly, trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. We can't care about racism because there's a pandemic? Wait your turn, people of color, no time to worry about you now! Jesus Christ. You know, I'm concerned about myself. And my loved ones. I also feel badly for the people who have died, been sick, lost friends and family, lost jobs and businesses. I can also spare a moment to be concerned about racial inequity. Wanting people to be safe and healthy and also choosing to treat people with respect and general consideration are not competing priorities. I don't have to actively work at being an intolerant asshole to in some way positively impact the outcome of a global pandemic. Is that how you think that works? |
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 10, 2021 22:53:16 GMT -5
When there is a World of suffering going... on I'm not too bothered about perceived "microaggressions"...... That's a fair point, isn't it?
That post won't quote right for some reason so I copied this sentence because I really wanted to answer this question.
No. It's not a fair point. If you are interacting with the human race you have the obligation to do it in a respectful way and to care about how your word and actions impact others. And as a personal observation I'll point out that you seem to have the time to spend to actively defend your sense of entitlement to be offensive, and your sense of entitlement to tell people how they should interpret your words and actions and your sense of entitlement to tell them how they should and should not feel about it. So you probably have the time to attempt to listen to how you are being seen and heard and learn from that. Hiding behind the suffering of others to claim that no one should give a shit about racism is lazy and cowardly.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 4:51:17 GMT -5
"Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?"
“You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement”
“Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking”
“trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. “
“she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷♀”
This is Bullying, off several posters.
and being from a different place I might have expected something of this..........but I thought I'd just point out the hypocrisy.
All this self-flagellating indulgence for "improvement".............. and you have turned into the thing you despise.
One of the things I have noticed about Wokeness
is that it tries to shut down debate..... Its their opinion.... or you must be racist/gaslighting/liar etc.
Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions..... If there is suppression, its a dictatorship.... and a dangerous path to go down.
The rest of it achieves nothing.
When you can get the Klansmen to start reading books on "self improvement" ...Let me know
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 4:59:10 GMT -5
Oh and there is more vvvvvv
"Hiding behind the suffering of others to claim that no one should give a shit about racism is lazy and cowardly."
coupled with a contradictory
"you have the obligation to do it in a respectful way"
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 11, 2021 8:23:16 GMT -5
95% of my MAGA relatives are white, evangelicals with no more than a GED or high school education. Some have college degrees but they were obtained from small schools that have mostly white student populations and they lived at home during college. Most live within 30 minutes of where they were born and grew up and have rarely been around people who aren't like them. I think you described most of your state. And mine. If I lived in Des Moines, Iowa City or Ames, I could find more like minded people, especially in Iowa City. There are a few like minded people in Dubuque but it's no longer the majority. Would you believe when I got my hair cut, I saw a Tulsi Gabbard billboard as well as many, many Trump signs. There was also a profane Trump sign. |
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 11, 2021 8:29:46 GMT -5
ETA: this is re:nidena, last page. for real. I may be a straight, cis-pasty white girl, but my loved ones run the lgbtq+ spectrum and melanin rainbow, both blood and chosen family. fuck anyone that doesn't respect them as human beings living their best lives. I respect everyone until presented with a reason not to. I wish more did. So do I and they each know that I love them. One of my extremely religious cousins posted a meme yesterday that said LGBTQ+ are sinners. I felt so bad for my LGBTQ+ family. At least he put it out in the open so they can determine how they want to proceed. I've heard other cousins say quietly the same thing. So they keep their prejudice hidden. I will also add that I have been to the UK and have many friends in the UK. The UK most definitely has many of the same issues with racism as the US and Canada. I'd say most countries have issues with racism. |
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 11, 2021 8:34:21 GMT -5
"Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?"
“You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement”
“Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking”
“trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. “
“she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷♀” This is Bullying, off several posters. and being from a different place I might have expected something of this..........but I thought I'd just point out the hypocrisy. All this self-flagellating indulgence for "improvement".............. and you have turned into the thing you despise. One of the things I have noticed about Wokeness is that it tries to shut down debate..... Its their opinion.... or you must be racist/gaslighting/liar etc. Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions..... If there is suppression, its a dictatorship.... and a dangerous path to go down. The rest of it achieves nothing. When you can get the Klansmen to start reading books on "self improvement" ...Let me know These statements were made over the course of three days, in response to shit you said. They weren't all thrown at you at once; nor were they responses to just one statement you made. Rather than accusing people of bullying--we can't help that only you are the one with that particular stance--are you looking at what was said in the conversation. I mean, if you want to die on the hill of your stance, that is totally your prerogative but none of those statements are untrue. And now you're deflecting away from what you said by accusing us of bullying you. I stand by my gaslighting statement and question. A recipient of disagreement may feel uncomfortable but that doesn't always equate to bullying. Another facet of racist behavior are "whataboutisms". People get uncomfortable talking about the topic at hand, in the specific details being discussed, so they ask "what about...?" A perfect example of that is when folx are discussing police killing Black people at alarming rates and someone will say "What about Black on Black crime in Chicago?" The parallel, here, is we were discussing racism/racist language and you, basically, bemoaned "What about all the people struggling because of xyz?" If you want to have the conversation, HAVE the conversation WITHOUT gaslighting and WITHOUT your version of Whataboutisms. And you can be pissed, hurt, angry, feel some kind of way about the things that were said. That's your right. And your privilege. I ask you to keep in mind that most of us don't type with sprinkles and unicorn farts embedded in our sentences. We are succinct, to the point, direct. And that rarely comes across soft and fluffy. |
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 11, 2021 8:35:18 GMT -5
"Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?"
“You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement”
“Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking”
“trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. “
“she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷♀” This is Bullying, off several posters. and being from a different place I might have expected something of this..........but I thought I'd just point out the hypocrisy. All this self-flagellating indulgence for "improvement".............. and you have turned into the thing you despise. One of the things I have noticed about Wokeness is that it tries to shut down debate..... Its their opinion.... or you must be racist/gaslighting/liar etc. Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions..... If there is suppression, its a dictatorship.... and a dangerous path to go down. The rest of it achieves nothing. When you can get the Klansmen to start reading books on "self improvement" ...Let me know I'm not really following most of your posts, but no one is saying overt racism should be ignored or dismissed. But what about all of the issues we can 100% see with statistical data, that aren't caused by the the overt, vile, white supremacist? Test scores, salaries, arrests, incarcerations all very clearly indicate that the system isn't equal. I don't think its the stereotypical white supremacists controlling all of those. Its normal people, making small decisions. Normal people making decisions that uphold an unequal system. |
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 11, 2021 8:42:11 GMT -5
I think you described most of your state. And mine. If I lived in Des Moines, Iowa City or Ames, I could find more like minded people, especially in Iowa City. There are a few like minded people in Dubuque but it's no longer the majority. Would you believe when I got my hair cut, I saw a Tulsi Gabbard billboard as well as many, many Trump signs. There was also a profane Trump sign. That's interesting about the Tulsi Gabbard billboard. There would definitely be more diversity in the larger cities--much like Indianapolis vs the rest of the state--but they're still not very diverse states. None of the Midwestern states are and that's unfortunate because it pretty much cultivates very narrow view points. |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 11, 2021 8:48:26 GMT -5
"Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?"
“You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement”
“Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking”
“trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. “
“she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷♀” This is Bullying, off several posters. and being from a different place I might have expected something of this..........but I thought I'd just point out the hypocrisy. All this self-flagellating indulgence for "improvement".............. and you have turned into the thing you despise. One of the things I have noticed about Wokeness is that it tries to shut down debate..... Its their opinion.... or you must be racist/gaslighting/liar etc. Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions..... If there is suppression, its a dictatorship.... and a dangerous path to go down. The rest of it achieves nothing. When you can get the Klansmen to start reading books on "self improvement" ...Let me know This is tough for me because I do hope that sometimes be being nicer, people will listen. However, I don't see anything in your posts that suggests you are looking for a debate. It feels like you are trying to shut down the debate. "Those who go out of their way to be offended... by looking up age-old phrases that nobody even knows the meaning of..... and get upset when there is no malice or intent........ Is not suffering." You've set up a straw man argument reducing words and phrases that might be racist, to just old stuff in your opinion no one cares about unless they want to be offended. Perhaps some have looked up these phrases because they were suffering from more contemporary ones. Obviously someone does know the meaning of these words and phrases if we can easily find them in Wikipedia, dictionaries and other sources. This is an example of gas lighting. The posts about beaner are whizzing by me as I have never heard the word used good or bad, so there is zero context for me personally. |
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 9:06:35 GMT -5
Its absolutely true that we need to make sure that the system is equal for all its citizens. I would support that 100%
What I'm objecting to is "Wokeness" ...ie Meghan Markle who seems to have a carte blanche pass to make whatever accusations she likes.
The fact that it isn't true....... doesn't seem to matter.
Its "her truth" (whatever that means)....... and that fact that its caused a load of very real harm to other people....... doesn't matter either.
She is mixed race and if you object you are racist/gaslighting/ ignoring her truth..... and anyone who calls this out is prevented from speaking.
How has it got to this?..... and what has it got to do with the real World inequality problems that we need to address?
Apologising because you are White..... is nonsense.
Finding things to be offended by when there is no malice aforthought.....is nonsense
and trying to rewrite history is not helpful either.
What we have here is a very left wing (Marxist) ideology that people are getting suckered in to....... to destroy the systems in place and make everyone equal.
Its a failed system which has been tried countless times and failed,,,
......and as someone who believes in a Meritocracy ... where everyone has the chance to succeed in direct relation to the amount of effort they put in..... I find Marxism objectionable.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 9:14:03 GMT -5
Why would you be going out of your way to be offended?
This relates to some of my earlier posts on wanting to wallow in victimhood...
How does a perpetual victim ever succeed in life?....... Is this and ideology we even want?
and how does it relate to the real life issues that people are facing.... such as not having healthcare, or a decent place to live.
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 11, 2021 9:18:24 GMT -5
<snip> and how does it relate to the real life issues that people are facing.... such as not having healthcare, or a decent place to live. Because racism contributes to those things as well. And to combat racism, you have to work on the big things AND the small things. |
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 11, 2021 9:19:37 GMT -5
Its absolutely true that we need to make sure that the system is equal for all its citizens. I would support that 100% What I'm objecting to is "Wokeness" ...ie Meghan Markle who seems to have a carte blanche pass to make whatever accusations she likes. The fact that it isn't true....... doesn't seem to matter. Its "her truth" (whatever that means)....... and that fact that its caused a load of very real harm to other people....... doesn't matter either. She is mixed race and if you object you are racist/gaslighting/ ignoring her truth..... and anyone who calls this out is prevented from speaking. How has it got to this?..... and what has it got to do with the real World inequality problems that we need to address? Apologising because you are White..... is nonsense. Finding things to be offended by when there is no malice aforthought.....is nonsense and trying to rewrite history is not helpful either. What we have here is a very left wing (Marxist) ideology that people are getting suckered in to....... to destroy the systems in place and make everyone equal. Its a failed system which has been tried countless times and failed,,, ......and as someone who believes in a Meritocracy ... where everyone has the chance to succeed in direct relation to the amount of effort they put in..... I find Marxism objectionable. Ok, so equal system cool, but it isn't equal right now. If we don't want to lift everyone up to the same starting point, we need to strip out a lot of privilege so that effort alone determines success. How on earth is that accomplished? |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 11, 2021 9:29:00 GMT -5
Why would you be going out of your way to be offended? This relates to some of my earlier posts on wanting to wallow in victimhood... How does a perpetual victim ever succeed in life?....... Is this and ideology we even want?and how does it relate to the real life issues that people are facing.... such as not having healthcare, or a decent place to live. No, but it seemed to carry Trump for four entire years and has him still getting GOP folks coming by to kiss the ring. |
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 11, 2021 9:34:57 GMT -5
Why would you be going out of your way to be offended? This relates to some of my earlier posts on wanting to wallow in victimhood... How does a perpetual victim ever succeed in life?....... Is this and ideology we even want? and how does it relate to the real life issues that people are facing.... such as not having healthcare, or a decent place to live. I'm not looking to be offended. I advocate to let things go, and give the benefit of the doubt more than I would recommend others do so. But I don't want to be an asshole, and I hope my kids aren't either. Ive said all kinds of stupid things, some because I wasn't thinking, and some because I didn't realize the impact of my words. Eta...I don't want to continue and pass on racist thoughts, words, and actions. I was raised in a home that would never have demonstrated or allowed racist actions or overt racist language, but that doesn't mean there weren't racist thoughts and even words. My dad told me he'd rather I marry a nice black man than a white asshole, but the hope was certainly that I'd find a nice white man. My parents are amazing people. Kind, hard working and giving. They made sure I wasn't ever exposed to overt racism, and are even more diligent now with my kids. But there are decades of experience to unpack. They did better, and I hope I will do better. I also care about affordable housing and health insurance, and support for mental illness, and saving the bees and the whales, reducing waste, avoiding plastic, minimizing covid exposure, and how much junk food my kids have access to. They're all important and many are interconnected. Start a thread on those and we will discuss ad nauseam. |
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 11, 2021 9:43:09 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 11, 2021 9:51:49 GMT -5
Its absolutely true that we need to make sure that the system is equal for all its citizens. I would support that 100% What I'm objecting to is "Wokeness" ...ie Meghan Markle who seems to have a carte blanche pass to make whatever accusations she likes. The fact that it isn't true....... doesn't seem to matter. Its "her truth" (whatever that means)....... and that fact that its caused a load of very real harm to other people....... doesn't matter either. She is mixed race and if you object you are racist/gaslighting/ ignoring her truth..... and anyone who calls this out is prevented from speaking. How has it got to this?..... and what has it got to do with the real World inequality problems that we need to address? Apologising because you are White..... is nonsense. Finding things to be offended by when there is no malice aforthought.....is nonsense and trying to rewrite history is not helpful either. What we have here is a very left wing (Marxist) ideology that people are getting suckered in to....... to destroy the systems in place and make everyone equal. Its a failed system which has been tried countless times and failed,,, ......and as someone who believes in a Meritocracy ... where everyone has the chance to succeed in direct relation to the amount of effort they put in..... I find Marxism objectionable. You just recently posted this- Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions.....so what is up with the seeming desire for an exception for Meghan Markle? You can say anything you want, but she can't? I've had to listen to DJT making unfounded accusations since 2015 and had to breathe through it. I think Marxism has become one of the fave RW buzz words because they want to link to that instead of other things. I'm an American, all men are created equal, is a big phrase here. A founding phrase. Also, growing up in my church I was taught God created all so therefore all are created equal if not the same. No Marxism or handwringing required. Since people are people, nowhere on the planet exists a true meritocracy and frankly England having a Monarchy shows how somethings have nothing to do with merit. Prince Charles will inherit an estate producing lots of money simply because he was born royal and had the luck to be the first born male. Jobs often hire on fit here, which is not about merit, but about personality. |
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 10:32:11 GMT -5
You need to work on the big things,......... not virtue signalling with objections to inconsequentialities.
New government, sensible things being said ... and make a real difference to peoples lives.
Making richer people poorer, does not make poorer people richer..... Just look at Cuba (Marxist) everyone is the same because no-one has anything.
Its a failed system.
What I believe in is a meritocracy, where everyone has the chance to better themselves... and as long as the starting points are equal... and everyone has a fair crack of the whip its a good system for a vibrant society.
Where it goes wrong is when the starting points aren't equal.
Not without accountability. What she said was untrue....... and she was unchallenged.
Its why I have been so opposed on here. You have only heard one side.... so it must be that those.. "nasty, racist, Brits don't like Americans or Black people"
You have been fed a line.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 11, 2021 10:33:10 GMT -5
Its absolutely true that we need to make sure that the system is equal for all its citizens. I would support that 100% What I'm objecting to is "Wokeness" ...ie Meghan Markle who seems to have a carte blanche pass to make whatever accusations she likes. The fact that it isn't true....... doesn't seem to matter. Its "her truth" (whatever that means)....... and that fact that its caused a load of very real harm to other people....... doesn't matter either. She is mixed race and if you object you are racist/gaslighting/ ignoring her truth..... and anyone who calls this out is prevented from speaking. How has it got to this?..... and what has it got to do with the real World inequality problems that we need to address? Apologising because you are White..... is nonsense. Finding things to be offended by when there is no malice aforthought.....is nonsense and trying to rewrite history is not helpful either. What we have here is a very left wing (Marxist) ideology that people are getting suckered in to....... to destroy the systems in place and make everyone equal. Its a failed system which has been tried countless times and failed,,, ......and as someone who believes in a Meritocracy ... where everyone has the chance to succeed in direct relation to the amount of effort they put in..... I find Marxism objectionable. That Markle woman seems to be causing an even bigger ruckus in Jolly Olde England than that young fellow Michael Banks.  |
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nidena
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Post by nidena on Apr 11, 2021 10:40:51 GMT -5
Its absolutely true that we need to make sure that the system is equal for all its citizens. I would support that 100% What I'm objecting to is "Wokeness" ...ie Meghan Markle who seems to have a carte blanche pass to make whatever accusations she likes. The fact that it isn't true....... doesn't seem to matter. Its "her truth" (whatever that means)....... and that fact that its caused a load of very real harm to other people....... doesn't matter either. She is mixed race and if you object you are racist/gaslighting/ ignoring her truth..... and anyone who calls this out is prevented from speaking. How has it got to this?..... and what has it got to do with the real World inequality problems that we need to address? Apologising because you are White..... is nonsense. Finding things to be offended by when there is no malice aforthought.....is nonsense and trying to rewrite history is not helpful either. What we have here is a very left wing (Marxist) ideology that people are getting suckered in to....... to destroy the systems in place and make everyone equal. Its a failed system which has been tried countless times and failed,,, ......and as someone who believes in a Meritocracy ... where everyone has the chance to succeed in direct relation to the amount of effort they put in..... I find Marxism objectionable. That Markle woman seems to be causing an even bigger ruckus in Jolly Olde England than that young fellow Michael Banks.  |
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 10:41:41 GMT -5
Its a good example of Wokeness ..... thats why
Although all this far left preaching...... looks a bit weak when you are swanning around in an 11 million pound house and dining out on titles from a family you hate.
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,107
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2021 10:49:37 GMT -5
Trying to justify your bullying are you?....... Too late. |
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billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 11, 2021 10:52:29 GMT -5
You need to work on the big things,......... not virtue signalling with objections to inconsequentialities. New government, sensible things being said ... and make a real difference to peoples lives. Making richer people poorer, does not make poorer people richer..... Just look at Cuba (Marxist) everyone is the same because no-one has anything. Its a failed system. What I believe in is a meritocracy, where everyone has the chance to better themselves... and as long as the starting points are equal... and everyone has a fair crack of the whip its a good system for a vibrant society. Where it goes wrong is when the starting points aren't equal. Not without accountability. What she said was untrue....... and she was unchallenged. Its why I have been so opposed on here. You have only heard one side.... so it must be that those.. "nasty, racist, Brits don't like Americans or Black people" You have been fed a line. Looking at Cuba: Cuba is poor, but who is to blame – Castro or 50 years of US blockade? |
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