I didn't mean to be racist, I'm just an idiot

[susana1954]

Apr 9, 2021 14:21:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 9, 2021 12:59:40 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

I don't see Knee Deep in Water Chloe 's behavior as rude.  It was group-write, which in itself is a horrible concept.  But she is allowed to edit as part of that process.  The person can protest, but it shouldn't be based on race but rather that Chloe subverted his/her meaning in her edit.

I must have missed that part, the group-write. 

She didn't use that phrase, but that was what it sounded like to me.  Or maybe not.  Does that mean everyone on here that does this is rude?

Mid-January, I was in a class via Zoom.



You know how on here when someone writes a phrase or sentence one way and another poster will quote it, strike through a portion, and retype it a different way that (usually) alters the meaning to what the subsequent poster wants to say, and then the subsequent poster says “fixed”?



Well, I did that in the Zoom chat. And a third person announced that I was being racist because the person I did it to is black. Since I’m who’re, I was squashing that person’s voice. When I pointed out that, while what I did may have been uncouth, possibly unprofessional, I’d have done it to regardless of the color of the person’s skin, I was told I wasn’t listening.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Apr 9, 2021 14:21:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

I must have missed that part, the group-write. 

She didn't use that phrase, but that was what it sounded like to me.  Or maybe not.  Does that mean everyone on here that does this is rude?

Mid-January, I was in a class via Zoom.



You know how on here when someone writes a phrase or sentence one way and another poster will quote it, strike through a portion, and retype it a different way that (usually) alters the meaning to what the subsequent poster wants to say, and then the subsequent poster says “fixed”?



Well, I did that in the Zoom chat. And a third person announced that I was being racist because the person I did it to is black. Since I’m who’re, I was squashing that person’s voice. When I pointed out that, while what I did may have been uncouth, possibly unprofessional, I’d have done it to regardless of the color of the person’s skin, I was told I wasn’t listening.

Yes.

[happyhoix]

I told a black coworker I had adopted a Maine Coon cat and he thought that was racist.

I told him it was Racoon. He still raised an eyebrow.

I guess coon hounds are out too?

I’m pretty sure he was teasing me. He was already giving me shit for getting a cat and not a dog.

[TheOtherMe]

I hope he was teasing because Maine Coon is a breed of cat.  

[Lizard Queen]

Apr 9, 2021 14:50:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

She didn't use that phrase, but that was what it sounded like to me.  Or maybe not.  Does that mean everyone on here that does this is rude?

Yes.

Seems like 100% of the people who do it here are being smart alecks. Much of the time, it is in agreement, but adding emphasis. Other times, it is in disagreement and it is rude then.

I can see a teacher simply doing it as a correction, but I don't know the specifics on the example.

[Deleted]

I'm reading and working to process every post here because it matters.  And this is apparently the only place on the globe where a truly honest conversation can happen. It's my night to fix supper so I'll keep it brief for now and maybe be back later.

I'm white, 1/2 Hispanic, and can't change that nor should I need to.  I have neighbors, acquaintances and friends of color, a lot of colors and religions and sexual orientations.  I'm 100% sure I have unintentionally said bad things over my 73 years of life, most of which I had no clue about, just a common phrase in my world.  Did my lack of knowledge and intentionality reduce the hurt to the listener?  Nope. I've learned a lot over the last few days here about the origin on phrases long rooted in our American tradition.  We can all learn to treat one another as individuals rather than groups.  

The one thing that totally makes me go bonkers are words like "all", everyone", "they".  There are no such groups because humans are individuals.  The harm comes when we try to pack huge groups of folks into a bag based on the color of their skin, their age, their gender, their religion, their sexual identity.  

[Spellbound454]

Thats true.
I'm a School teacher and teach teenagers from different races colours and creeds ..... all of the time.
It makes absolutely no difference.
I'll do everything I can to get them to be the best they can be ...... and my only interested is that they are learning properly and I can move them to the next stage.

There are rules for classroom behaviour, getting work in on time, not distracting others, staying on task etc...... and they apply to everyone, equally.
Its fair... and the kids know its fair. Race, colour, gender never comes in to it. 

My comment about victimhood.... and being not being so easily offended...... is completely relevent to our current age. Something we would call "Wokeness"

How are you ever going to reach your potential if you always consider yourself a victim?
People will get fed up of you..... or has been said back away because they don't want to be upsetting.

To those in my charge I would say...... Get up, work hard, take your chances.... and get to be, what you want to be.
Its dog eat dog out there..... and I'm preparing my kids to be successful.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2021 18:16:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Thats true.
I'm a School teacher and teach teenagers from different races colours and creeds ..... all of the time.
It makes absolutely no difference.
I'll do everything I can to get them to be the best they can be ...... and my only interested is that they are learning properly and I can move them to the next stage.

There are rules for classroom behaviour, getting work in on time, not distracting others, staying on task etc...... and they apply to everyone, equally.
Its fair... and the kids know its fair. Race, colour, gender never comes in to it. 

My comment about victimhood.... and being not being so easily offended...... is completely relevent to our current age. Something we would call "Wokeness"

How are you ever going to reach your potential if you always consider yourself a victim?
People will get fed up of you..... or has been said back away because they don't want to be upsetting.

To those in my charge I would say...... Get up, work hard, take your chances.... and get to be, what you want to be.
Its dog eat dog out there..... and I'm preparing my kids to be successful.

they need to learn that no matter what the reality of their lives is, there will be people in authority over them who won't care.

[nidena]

Apr 9, 2021 8:44:02 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Apr 9, 2021 8:23:28 GMT -5 nidena said:

Who gets to define "easily"?  

You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement.  Just because you're not offended by something doesn't mean something isn't offensive.  Many people have been conditioned to deal with BS just to survive; doesn't mean it isn't BS.  

Should women have to continue to deal with hands on their asses just because that's how it was for...ever?  Should PoC have to continue to deal with racist language just because it's woven into how so many people speak?

No.  They shouldn't.

I’m not sure how being rude in a meeting equates to a woman being touched or racist words being used? To you not see how ridiculous that leap sounds?

My response had NOTHING to do with Chloe's situation.  It had to do with the general theme of this thread i.e racist language. 

[Spellbound454]

You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement. Just because you're not offended by something doesn't mean something isn't offensive. Many people have been conditioned to deal with BS just to survive; doesn't mean it isn't BS.

We all have to deal with BS, its part of life.... and as adults we learn ways to cope.

I have a friend who is blind.. and when we part company I'll say "see you later" ... then I'll think, "is that the right thing to say, is there another phrase I could use" then he'll reply, "OK see you"
How can we have a friendship if I'm tying myself in knots?

Should women have to continue to deal with hands on their asses just because that's how it was for...ever? Should PoC have to continue to deal with racist language just because it's woven into how so many people speak?

Hands on assess no ... swing round and give a piece of your mind
Racism..... no..... contact whatever authority, line manager, boss and make a complaint.

[nidena]

Apr 9, 2021 14:52:56 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I told a black coworker I had adopted a Maine Coon cat and he thought that was racist.

I told him it was Racoon. He still raised an eyebrow.

I guess coon hounds are out too?

I’m pretty sure he was teasing me. He was already giving me shit for getting a cat and not a dog.

An interesting take from 2011 about the name of that breed of dog: whyracestillmatters.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/a-coonhound-from-mississippi/comment-page-1/ 

[Spellbound454]

 they need to learn that no matter what the reality of their lives is

I teach some kids with personal circumstances that would break your heart.

School is their constant ... because for those hours of the day, they get to be like everyone else.

Their rewards, their hopes and dreams... are just the same as everyone elses.

[billisonboard]

Apr 9, 2021 18:38:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 they need to learn that no matter what the reality of their lives is

I teach some kids with personal circumstances that would break your heart.

School is their constant ... because for those hours of the day, they get to be like everyone else.

Their rewards, their hopes and dreams... are just the same as everyone elses.

I ran a program in a small town 6th-12th grade school for students identified with special needs. You name the "need", I likely had it on my case load. I had a student who had inherited his mother's emotionally unstable brain chemistry. One day I got a call he had blown out of his science class. Once I found him, he informed me that he couldn't focus because he was upset that the night before his mother had gone to a bar with the guy they were living with but had gone home with someone else. He said that if she kept that shit up they would be on the street again. I listened to him until the end of that class period, calming him down. After sending him to his next class, I stopped by the sience room to explain to the teacher what was going on. He said he didn't care and the student needed to stay in his seat and learn about osmosis like everyone else.

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2021 19:39:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 18:38:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I teach some kids with personal circumstances that would break your heart.

School is their constant ... because for those hours of the day, they get to be like everyone else.

Their rewards, their hopes and dreams... are just the same as everyone elses.

I ran a program in a small town 6th-12th grade school for students identified with special needs. You name the "need", I likely had it on my case load. I had a student who had inherited his mother's emotionally unstable brain chemistry. One day I got a call he had blown out of his science class. Once I found him, he informed me that he couldn't focus because he was upset that the night before his mother had gone to a bar with the guy they were living with but had gone home with someone else. He said that if she kept that shit up they would be on the street again. I listened to him until the end of that class period, calming him down. After sending him to his next class, I stopped by the sience room to explain to the teacher what was going on. He said he didn't care and the student needed to stay in his seat and learn about osmosis like everyone else.

[Opti]

Apr 9, 2021 19:39:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 18:38:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I teach some kids with personal circumstances that would break your heart.

School is their constant ... because for those hours of the day, they get to be like everyone else.

Their rewards, their hopes and dreams... are just the same as everyone elses.

I ran a program in a small town 6th-12th grade school for students identified with special needs. You name the "need", I likely had it on my case load. I had a student who had inherited his mother's emotionally unstable brain chemistry. One day I got a call he had blown out of his science class. Once I found him, he informed me that he couldn't focus because he was upset that the night before his mother had gone to a bar with the guy they were living with but had gone home with someone else. He said that if she kept that shit up they would be on the street again. I listened to him until the end of that class period, calming him down. After sending him to his next class, I stopped by the sience room to explain to the teacher what was going on. He said he didn't care and the student needed to stay in his seat and learn about osmosis like everyone else.

That is tough. I hope his adulthood went better.

[thyme4change]

Apr 9, 2021 14:52:56 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I told a black coworker I had adopted a Maine Coon cat and he thought that was racist.

I told him it was Racoon. He still raised an eyebrow.

I guess coon hounds are out too?

I’m pretty sure he was teasing me. He was already giving me shit for getting a cat and not a dog.

I had a coon hound, but only referred to her as a 'blue tick'. I felt bad for her, we have no raccoons anywhere close to here, I doubt she saw one in her whole life. Sometimes she would jump the fence and I was afraid she would run all the way Utah looking for one.

[imawino]

Apr 9, 2021 3:29:03 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

You can't get away with being offensive and then just telling people they aren't allowed to take offense.  

Look, I do think intent matters.  But if you say something offensive and someone points it out and your response is to just double down and let them know their feelings are irrelevant and stupid, well....now you've made your intent very clear.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 9, 2021 13:14:47 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 8, 2021 8:03:59 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I get caught on phrases I never knew the origins of. Note I don't know what's wrong with long time no see. And a bunch of things I don't mean anything by but people have had bad experiences with. My new job is extremely progressive and gives ongoing training on this stuff, which I'm all for. Anyway, last week I learned not to ask people I don't know well where they are from. (I tend to do that when they have accents) It implies that people are not Canadian. Not even remotely what I mean when I ask but apparently it's how it gets taken.

I met a lovely black and white pit bull yesterday. I said to the owner "I detect a very slight accent. Germany?"
"Yes! How did you guess?" Anyway, he was from Berlin, and we had a very nice chat about techno music from Germany. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.

One of my neighbours is from Uganda, here to do his PhD. Yes, I asked. He spoke about how much he hated his first winter here, and cried almost every day, because he thought he made the worst mistake of his life. "I didn't think cold like this could exist!" That led to a great conversation about African food and music. He wasn't offended and seemed glad to talk about his home country.
I don't know.....asking people where they're from can lead to some pretty interesting conversations. 
When French people ask me where I'm from, because I speak French with a slight Russian accent, I don't find it insulting.

Yes it can. And sometimes people get insulted.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 9, 2021 22:33:41 GMT -5 imawino said:

Apr 9, 2021 3:29:03 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think we should stop being so easily offended ... its just playing in to the "victimhood" narrative that is going on at the moment.

If you didn't mean to be offensive then it should not be taken as such.


I like to keep being offensive simple....... Two words... starting with F and ending with F
No mistaking that

You can't get away with being offensive and then just telling people they aren't allowed to take offense.  

Look, I do think intent matters.  But if you say something offensive and someone points it out and your response is to just double down and let them know their feelings are irrelevant and stupid, well....now you've made your intent very clear.

This is so true!

[imawino]

Oh, another thing about my awesome dog!  Twice now women have crossed the street to avoid us while walking (he's very large, that part happens sometimes, no big deal) and then apologized at me by saying "I'm afraid of black dogs".  Not large dogs.  Black dogs.


That's weird, right?  I have to think that translates to other things?  I don't know.  It definitely seems like something you shouldn't feel the need to say to someone.

[Spellbound454]

Apr 9, 2021 19:39:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 9, 2021 18:38:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I teach some kids with personal circumstances that would break your heart.

School is their constant ... because for those hours of the day, they get to be like everyone else.

Their rewards, their hopes and dreams... are just the same as everyone elses.

I ran a program in a small town 6th-12th grade school for students identified with special needs. You name the "need", I likely had it on my case load. I had a student who had inherited his mother's emotionally unstable brain chemistry. One day I got a call he had blown out of his science class. Once I found him, he informed me that he couldn't focus because he was upset that the night before his mother had gone to a bar with the guy they were living with but had gone home with someone else. He said that if she kept that shit up they would be on the street again. I listened to him until the end of that class period, calming him down. After sending him to his next class, I stopped by the sience room to explain to the teacher what was going on. He said he didn't care and the student needed to stay in his seat and learn about osmosis like everyone else.

I don't know what its like in a US School........ but we would have all sorts of pastoral systems in place where the child would be supported.

Whatever responsible adult.... ie teacher, house manager, playground supervisor........ would flag it up..... and the system would go in to action.

The teachers job is to teach..... and the students are entitled to their lessons.
So as soon as the issues are resolved......... they are normally back in lesson, to settle down and get on with their day.

[Spellbound454]

  "I'm afraid of black dogs". Not large dogs. Black dogs.

Some people are afraid of black dogs..... perhaps they have been frightened by one.... or the have bought in to the popular legends of Black dogs and nightmares.
They don't like black cats either.

I don't know  where you are going with this but I'm pretty sure its not racism.

[nidena]

Rereading these pages...

I don't think it would be out of the ordinary for someone to pick up on the underlying misogyny or racism in the U.S. language: so much of it stems from those roots.  I think it just feels like someone is being "extra", now, because it can feel like an onslaught.

It's kind of like when you get a new car and then you start noticing just how many other people have that car.  When you start educating yourself about racism, you become more aware of the coded language, from subtle to brick-upside-your-head-obvious.

It might have to be exhausting to *hear* about all the ways that we speak words with racist undertones but I imagine it's nothing compared to living in a racist world.

And I'm with imawino in regards to doubling down.  If someone says I said "xyz", I'll amend and find better ways to express myself.  Much like it doesn't kill me to have my pronouns on my LinkedIn profile.

I'd rather adapt and be accepted by those with less privilege then keep the status quo that skews racist, sexist, and all other -ists.

[chiver78]

so much that with the doubling down. I said the same yesterday. doubling down just shows your ass, IMHO.

[raeoflyte]

Studies I've read show that black children/students are not treated equally. They are perceived as older than their white peers and held to higher expectations, punishments are stricter than white peers, etc.

The rules are equal but how they are enforced is always going to be fluid.

I follow Ally Henny on facebook and she had a post along the lines that this waive of ending racism is on an emotional/intellectual level. That having a black friend doesn't mean you're not a racist.

It's going to be a long difficult road, but we can see how we got here and we have to do better even if its uncomfortable.

[billisonboard]

Apr 10, 2021 9:55:50 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Studies I've read show that black children/students are not treated equally. They are perceived as older than their white peers and held to higher expectations, punishments are stricter than white peers, etc.

The rules are equal but how they are enforced is always going to be fluid.

I follow Ally Henny on facebook and she had a post along the lines that this waive of ending racism is on an emotional/intellectual level. That having a black friend doesn't mean you're not a racist.

It's going to be a long difficult road, but we can see how we got here and we have to do better even if its uncomfortable.

Perhaps it would be helpful if some hard work was done to draw a strong (somewhat artificial) distinction between "white supremacist" and "racist". I see a problem in that: "I don't walk around in a white hood and pronounce I am a member of the master race. I have black friends or at least they are acquaintances and coworkers. I voted for the other guys in 08 and 12 but it was based on the issues not race. I am certainly not a racist" blinds people to the underlying racist system that they have been raised into and perpetuate.

[TheOtherMe]

White people are born with white privilege, where we want it or not.  

Men are also born with an advantage over women.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 10, 2021 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 10, 2021 9:55:50 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Studies I've read show that black children/students are not treated equally. They are perceived as older than their white peers and held to higher expectations, punishments are stricter than white peers, etc.

The rules are equal but how they are enforced is always going to be fluid.

I follow Ally Henny on facebook and she had a post along the lines that this waive of ending racism is on an emotional/intellectual level. That having a black friend doesn't mean you're not a racist.

It's going to be a long difficult road, but we can see how we got here and we have to do better even if its uncomfortable.

Perhaps it would be helpful if some hard work was done to draw a strong (somewhat artificial) distinction between "white supremacist" and "racist". I see a problem in that: "I don't walk around in a white hood and pronounce I am a member of the master race. I have black friends or at least they are acquaintances and coworkers. I voted for the other guys in 08 and 12 but it was based on the issues not race. I am certainly not a racist" blinds people to the underlying racist system that they have been raised into and perpetuate.

There are plenty of books and online resources that do just that but you have to be willing to read it.

I've read White Fragility and How to be an Anti racist just for a start. I've seen both books mocked as trying to make me ashamed of being white and the authors are clearly reverse racists.

I'll admit the books made me uncomfortable but I take that as if it's causing me discomfort then I'm the target audience and need to listen. Others shut down.

Challenging your worldview takes work. I can hold your hand and try to spoon feed you but if you aren't open to what I'm saying all the spoon feeding in the world won't help.

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 9, 2021 14:44:21 GMT -5 susana1954 said:

Apr 9, 2021 14:21:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

I must have missed that part, the group-write. 

She didn't use that phrase, but that was what it sounded like to me.  Or maybe not.  Does that mean everyone on here that does this is rude?

Mid-January, I was in a class via Zoom.



You know how on here when someone writes a phrase or sentence one way and another poster will quote it, strike through a portion, and retype it a different way that (usually) alters the meaning to what the subsequent poster wants to say, and then the subsequent poster says “fixed”?



Well, I did that in the Zoom chat. And a third person announced that I was being racist because the person I did it to is black. Since I’m who’re, I was squashing that person’s voice. When I pointed out that, while what I did may have been uncouth, possibly unprofessional, I’d have done it to regardless of the color of the person’s skin, I was told I wasn’t listening.

I think doing it in a professional setting is much different than a message board. It is sarcastic here but no one cares. I would be pissed if someone did that to me professionally. What I wouldn’t do is assume it was done to me because I was a woman, unless it was someone that I knew treated women differently. But I am not one to assume that every slight is racist or misogynistic. I’ve worked with plenty of assholes over the years that treated both sexes equally bad. I would never demand better treatment just because I was female, just like I wouldn’t tolerate worse treatment because I was female.

[nidena]

Apr 10, 2021 10:41:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 10, 2021 9:55:50 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Studies I've read show that black children/students are not treated equally. They are perceived as older than their white peers and held to higher expectations, punishments are stricter than white peers, etc.

The rules are equal but how they are enforced is always going to be fluid.

I follow Ally Henny on facebook and she had a post along the lines that this waive of ending racism is on an emotional/intellectual level. That having a black friend doesn't mean you're not a racist.

It's going to be a long difficult road, but we can see how we got here and we have to do better even if its uncomfortable.

Perhaps it would be helpful if some hard work was done to draw a strong (somewhat artificial) distinction between "white supremacist" and "racist". I see a problem in that: "I don't walk around in a white hood and pronounce I am a member of the master race. I have black friends or at least they are acquaintances and coworkers. I voted for the other guys in 08 and 12 but it was based on the issues not race. I am certainly not a racist" blinds people to the underlying racist system that they have been raised into and perpetuate.

White supremacy and racism are pretty much the same spectrum.  White supremacy permeates EVERYTHING in the U.S. from the default color of bandaids to search engine results for "professional hair styles" to the fact that so many Black families have the last name Jefferson (or Washington or Adams, etc) due to direct involuntary lineage back to the THE Jefferson in our forefather clan.  But those who choose to remain ignorant can only connote the "white hoods and lynching" persona.