dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 22, 2021 21:32:08 GMT -5
The 500k who died don’t count? 30% of people with mild to moderate covid have symptoms 3-9 months after infected. I have no idea where your opinion came from, but it is 100% wrong. But I already know your opinion about medical opinions. It is amazing how lay people think they have the ability to feel they can offer opinions on complicated medical issues Sounds like you’re upset nobody is listening to your advice. Maybe it’s the messenger, nobody likes a pessimist. He’s a realist, Ryan, and not a fantasist.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 22, 2021 21:33:07 GMT -5
Nobody likes getting bad news from the doctor. Fact.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Feb 22, 2021 23:27:40 GMT -5
Sounds like you’re upset nobody is listening to your advice. Maybe it’s the messenger, nobody likes a pessimist. Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 23, 2021 0:07:52 GMT -5
Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. And other countries did so much better. COVID was going to knock us on our ass, but it did not need to be this bad. For a country that has one of the best systems in the world, this is a perfect example of how politics interfered with the science. Politics interfered in EVERY aspect of dealing with this pandemic, to the detriment of the US. This wasn’t a blue or red state issue. We have a proportion of the population who never saw it as a problem, and went about their life as if COVID didn’t exist (and yes, there are certain areas of my blue city in my blue state that I avoid as they are potential problems). That was sufficient to exacerbate the problem for everyone who complied, and overburdening our healthcare system.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 1:29:04 GMT -5
The 500k who died don’t count? 30% of people with mild to moderate covid have symptoms 3-9 months after infected. I have no idea where your opinion came from, but it is 100% wrong. But I already know your opinion about medical opinions. It is amazing how lay people think they have the ability to feel they can offer opinions on complicated medical issues Sounds like you’re upset nobody is listening to your advice. Maybe it’s the messenger, nobody likes a pessimist. he is more optimistic than I am, and people listen to me all day long, including on this board.
In other words, I think you are speaking for yourself, Ryan.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 1:29:56 GMT -5
Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, let me stop you right there.
when was that, exactly?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 1:31:29 GMT -5
Thanks for your medical opinion. I’m sure you learned that in medical school You're welcome. I will bless you every now and again with my knowledge. how very Paulesque of you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 1:35:33 GMT -5
Sounds like you’re upset nobody is listening to your advice. Maybe it’s the messenger, nobody likes a pessimist. Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump I wouldn't go that far. it started with the neoconservative movement in the 70's. it ENDED with Trump. for 500k+.
Trump is the pinnacle. if we go further, there is only the predictable fall. it might come anyway, even if we don't go further. our foundation is busted. we need to rebuild it. and I think we are too lazy to do it. and this discussion is not helping convince me otherwise.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 1:39:11 GMT -5
I will add a bit to my earlier prediction- we lose north of 665,000 (which is what we lost during the Spanish Flu), we lose 1-2% GDP for the next (5) to (10) years off the rates under the last three years of Obama and the first three years of Trump, due to the losses and chronic effects of this disease, and the cost of treating them. now, if you think I am ass pulling and speculating here, I am not. this is well studied. the countries most impacted by various pandemics in the past suffered long term economic consequences. the US won't be any different. I would consider investing in the KOSPI.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 23, 2021 2:09:36 GMT -5
We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, let me stop you right there.
when was that, exactly?
The who!e country locked down? Hell, we haven't even gotten as far as a national face mask mandate. Even now with half a million people dead, all we have is a mandate in federal buildings and public transportation. . Our need for eating out, going to a bar, or having our hair done seems to far outweigh the need for education And calls for reopening schools seem to be out-shouted for restarting school sports. You don't hear a lot about robotics, theater, etc., etc. We display priorities that are so out of touch with what we actually need that it is a miracle of science and the dedication of those in the medical field that we have not killed off a far larger portion of the population! And despite the desperate need of a large number of people to believe otherwise - alternative "facts" have not ever and will never get us out of this
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Feb 23, 2021 7:13:10 GMT -5
Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 23, 2021 9:47:33 GMT -5
Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. I'd like to present Nebraska and Iowa as a counter argument. We never shut down. Sure some hair salons and tattoo parlors got shut down for awhile but since damn near every company in these states is six degrees separated from the supply/agriculture chain the majority of companies were able to stay open as essential. No mask mandates in fact both governors have sued cities/counties that dare to implement them. Reynolds has had schools open from day one. Des Monies had to sue her to be allowed to be virtual only. They are two of the top five worst states for handling COVID. Are you going to tell me that if we had a coordinated federal response where the states were held responsible for their actions that Nebraska and Iowa couldn't have done any better? The two of them have been in absolute lock step with Trump that COVID is a hoax and nothing to see here. Things could have been handled A LOT better if there had been someone independent holding them accountable for their actions. I do not want to consider the horror stories we're going to hear coming out of Iowa nursing homes in the coming years. Reynolds will probably make Cuomo look like a saint in comparison.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Feb 23, 2021 10:03:26 GMT -5
We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. And other countries did so much better. COVID was going to knock us on our ass, but it did not need to be this bad. For a country that has one of the best systems in the world, this is a perfect example of how politics interfered with the science. Politics interfered in EVERY aspect of dealing with this pandemic, to the detriment of the US. This wasn’t a blue or red state issue. We have a proportion of the population who never saw it as a problem, and went about their life as if COVID didn’t exist (and yes, there are certain areas of my blue city in my blue state that I avoid as they are potential problems). That was sufficient to exacerbate the problem for everyone who complied, and overburdening our healthcare system. So we would've done better to just have a population that follows the rules laid out by politicians that have burned them in the past? Did you think that 30+ years of bickering, corrupt politicians would instill trust among the US people? Do you think gov't officials earned that level of trust? You all seem surprised that there wasn't compliance, I'm not surprised at all.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Feb 23, 2021 10:14:00 GMT -5
We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 23, 2021 10:16:01 GMT -5
Frankly, I think people are just plain more selfish now. During WWII, they'd have things like blackouts, where everyone would turn off their lights, so they wouldn't be a "target" in case of an air-raid. (My parents told me about this.) People would be appointed to walk the streets to make sure that no lights from inside the houses could be seen outside. People would cooperate for the greater good. Now, I can't even convince some of my rabid Trump friends to even wear a small piece of cloth across their faces to protect their neighbors. For some reason, (and yes, they DID get Covid), they got mild cases of the virus, and since they didn't end up in the hospital, they don't think the virus is real, and they also think the number of deaths & hospitalizations is exaggerated. Of course, now they're traveling and doing everything we've been told NOT to do. Nothing like a few "Typhoid Marys" to mess things up for everyone else...
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Feb 23, 2021 10:38:40 GMT -5
We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. And this is where leadership matters. Effective leadership and response to this would have been better. People in charge are responsible for making tough decisions and getting people to follow. That was trumps biggest failure. The next time you criticize people for not doing the right thing, remember your words. We can no longer ask people to sacrifice and do the right thing
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 23, 2021 10:39:32 GMT -5
Trump downplayed it too, and ignored what he thought was pessimistic scenario. We have 500k dead. How did that work out? The problem is people fo not want to lustff Ed b to realistic advice. Whatever happened to plan for the worst and hope for the best? On this board, when it comes to money, most people criticize rosy scenarios. But with this, it’s different? You are right, I am angry. I am angry that we have done so poorly, bad enough that 509k are dead. Life expectancy fell by a year. Millions hospitalized and who knows how many with chronic problems as a result. People not caring what this has done to medical professionals. Lives ruined, economy in shambles. But I am being too pessimistic. Yeah, that’s it. We are just too stupid to listen to the warnings we were given. And it started with Trump We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. Wait. Whole country? When where all 48 contiguous states on the same level of lock down at the exact same time? If you mean "lock down" as in I can't get sit in a restaurant (or get my hair cut or have a party) in my State - but oh hey I can drive 100 miles to the next state and do - Hey! Family get in the car ROAD TRIP!!" Or if you mean "cool! Air fares are so low - I'm booking some trips to see family!" then yeah I guess 'lock down" happened. I can show you my siblings travel plans since February 2020 - He and his wife traveled By plane between Arizona, Texas, Florida, Illinois, Nevada, Wisconsin and Kentucky. They were in another state for atleast a week or more EVERY month of 2020 - visiting family and vacationing. I'm not talking two people traveling - I'm talking their whole clan (I'd say about 30 people (across households) happily taking advantage of low airfares criss crossing America EVERY MONTH of 2020 - because Covid19 wasn't all that serious. If the US was on Lock Down how is it possible that my jet setting family where forced to stay at home? FWIW: they decided after the alarming number of deaths in January 2021 - that they would NOT travel outside Florida (where most of them live) during February and March. That didn't stop the people they were visiting in all the other states from going to Florida. My sibling just got down hosting the Texas relatives and then he and his wife headed to Key West to meet up with some old time friends (who flew from their home state to Florida) that they haven't seen in a couple of years. There is no Covid19 in Florida. Oh, and they flew into Illinois during our most "locked down" lock down phase - to visit and then all they did was moan about how there was nothing to do (no restaurants, bars, entertainment) and they were all "what is wrong with you - what do you mean you don't want to get the family together at one person's house?? what is wrong with you all? covid19 isn't a thing! And then when they were flying out of Illinois they were all "oh my god we aren't gonna be able to leave! they are taking names and turning people away at the airport!! (they weren't that never happened) so they rented a car a drove to Milwaukee which wasn't on high of a lock down as Illinois and flew out of Wisconsin to go to their next destination. So, how exactly did that Whole Lock down of America work? Was there some sort of published calendar for the "days/weeks" of lock down - that my sibling/and their extended family had access to so they knew what days of the month to stay home I don't remember hearing about such a calendar but then I don't visit many websites. I'm serious - my family members were constantly traveling during the whole of 2020. The only reason they didn't come to Illinois for the Holidays - was because we told them we weren't haven't a big thanksgiving/christmas get together. As it was covid19 spread at one of my extended families small gathering (12 people - 4 or 5 different family groups). I did not attend.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 23, 2021 10:50:27 GMT -5
And other countries did so much better. COVID was going to knock us on our ass, but it did not need to be this bad. For a country that has one of the best systems in the world, this is a perfect example of how politics interfered with the science. Politics interfered in EVERY aspect of dealing with this pandemic, to the detriment of the US. This wasn’t a blue or red state issue. We have a proportion of the population who never saw it as a problem, and went about their life as if COVID didn’t exist (and yes, there are certain areas of my blue city in my blue state that I avoid as they are potential problems). That was sufficient to exacerbate the problem for everyone who complied, and overburdening our healthcare system. So we would've done better to just have a population that follows the rules laid out by politicians that have burned them in the past? Did you think that 30+ years of bickering, corrupt politicians would instill trust among the US people? Do you think gov't officials earned that level of trust? You all seem surprised that there wasn't compliance, I'm not surprised at all. But I thought the whole point of Trump was he wasn't a politician therefore he was going to be more trustworthy. So you're saying that if he had rolled out a plan people wouldn't have listened because he's not trustworthy? I'm really confused by the logic that people didn't listen and no national plan would have worked because politicans sucked. Yet for the entire 4 years he was in office I was told Trump was a true leader, told it like it is and was more trustworthy since he didn't come from the swamp. So by that logic if Trump had come up with a plan people should have followed it. But he didn't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 10:52:04 GMT -5
We had the entire country locked down for weeks at a time, most of the country is working from home when possible, masks are being worn in many states, kids are remote learning, restaurants were closed, travel is limited, etc. Don't get on your high horse thinking that if everyone followed your advice that things would be that much better. Performance by both Red/Blue states is completely mixed, despite certain states locking down much more than others. We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible I think this is about right. if you remember, most scientists were predicting we would lose 70-100k back in Feb. there was a reason for that. they figured we would get our testing protocol in order and have federal guidelines and coordination to combat the disease.
in reality, we didn't even get our testing protocol together. we still don't have it together. this mishmash of uncoordinated testing is not effective at all. it does not put resources where they are most needed.
this is no small thing. this is a massive and deadly failure on the part of Trump. and if his acolytes don't get that, that is just too bad for them.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 23, 2021 10:53:33 GMT -5
We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. Dude - people were still traveling and getting together - see my post about the MONTHLY travel plans of my sibling during 2020. The lock downs were also County by County. Just because you couldn't eat in a restaurant in Cook County - it didn't mean you couldn't drive to Dupage or McHenry or Will County and enjoy a nice restaurant meal - or sit in a bar and drink and watch sports. That would be a 1 hour drive or less. Have you forgotten already?? The States couldn't enforce anything and couldn't get it's own counties to agree. Especially the Red Counties in Blue States. Remember how trump was whipping up his supporters and DEMANDING loyalty?? Do you really think the Red Counties in Blue States were gonna go along with the Blue leadership?? When trump was attacking Blue State leaders for their covid19 response?? Where was the leadership? America's response to Covid19 was "every man for himself" or maybe "every man gets decide how he wants to deal with Covid19".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 10:56:21 GMT -5
We never locked down the entire country, and we don’t don’t keep most areas locked down long enough. An analysis was published in the lancet that suggested that if we just performed as well as the AVERAGE of other countries in our economic group we could have prevented 40% of the deaths that occurred. Don’t go be me the right wing talking points that nothing could of been down. The first wave was unavoidable, although worse than it should have been due to our actions. We had about 100k dead by August. What happened since is inexcusable. Think otherwise if you like, but you are in a fantasy land. The difference between medical people and you is that we try to stick to what is known and provable. The disease has been around for a year. The is no way to know what the long term effects of this are. Any other statement to that effect is irresponsible My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. you still had cases because so many states were NOT locked down.
and you have to love the "armchair quarterback" defense. the fact is that we HAD NO QUARTERBACK. if we did, we would have had a coordinated approach that saves lives. if you don't believe that, I guess that is ok. but when your country fails to do as good a job as 180 other countries, you can't just sit there and dismiss the critique as "second guessing". not without being laughed out of the room, anyway.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 23, 2021 11:00:39 GMT -5
My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. you still had cases because so many states were NOT locked down.
and you have to love the "armchair quarterback" defense. the fact is that we HAD NO QUARTERBACK. if we did, we would have had a coordinated approach that saves lives. if you don't believe that, I guess that is ok. but when your country fails to do as good a job as 180 other countries, you can't just sit there and dismiss the critique as "second guessing". not without being laughed out of the room, anyway.
Well we couldn't have done as good as those 180 countries because. ..reasons. Just like we can't look at any other country for other issues we grapple with because it just cannot possibly ever be adapted to work for us because. ..reasons. We're a special snowflake that way. The Midwest totally ignored COVID because our rugged pioneer spirit was going to save us. We weren't living in fancy crowded cities like the coasts. Bullshit that deaths couldn't have been prevented in either Iowa or Nebraska if we had gotten on the ball with the rest of the country instead of waiting for it to come to us. Bullshit Ricketts and Reynolds could have gotten away with the things they've done if they had been held accountable on a national level. They already follow Trump in calling a hoax, if he had taken it seriously and the plan came out of his mouth they would have followed that too.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 11:01:36 GMT -5
And other countries did so much better. COVID was going to knock us on our ass, but it did not need to be this bad. For a country that has one of the best systems in the world, this is a perfect example of how politics interfered with the science. Politics interfered in EVERY aspect of dealing with this pandemic, to the detriment of the US. This wasn’t a blue or red state issue. We have a proportion of the population who never saw it as a problem, and went about their life as if COVID didn’t exist (and yes, there are certain areas of my blue city in my blue state that I avoid as they are potential problems). That was sufficient to exacerbate the problem for everyone who complied, and overburdening our healthcare system. So we would've done better to just have a population that follows the rules laid out by politicians that have burned them in the past? Did you think that 30+ years of bickering, corrupt politicians would instill trust among the US people? Do you think gov't officials earned that level of trust? You all seem surprised that there wasn't compliance, I'm not surprised at all. every population follows rules. all it requires is LEADERSHIP.
I don't know what you mean by burned in the past, unless you are talking about 1918. we have not had anything remotely like this since then. this kind of situation is precisely what we need government for, and it failed us miserably.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Feb 23, 2021 11:03:31 GMT -5
We did hit 100K dead by the end of May. We're at 132,000 (today 7/3/2020). I'm gonna guesstimate a steady 500 dead per day-- So, another 14,000 dead by July 31st. That's 146,000 deaths. 200,000 dead by election day isn't that far fetched. I'm so glad Covid19 turned out to be "just like the flu" which kills 30,000 to 60,000 per year in America. <-- sarcasm. It's important to remember that this is 130,000 in 4 months. So 520,000 in a year. There are no signs of the rate of people dying slowing down. And this also does not reflect how many people have been seriously ill and not died. Sure, THIS is something I am right about
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 11:07:58 GMT -5
So we would've done better to just have a population that follows the rules laid out by politicians that have burned them in the past? Did you think that 30+ years of bickering, corrupt politicians would instill trust among the US people? Do you think gov't officials earned that level of trust? You all seem surprised that there wasn't compliance, I'm not surprised at all. But I thought the whole point of Trump was he wasn't a politician therefore he was going to be more trustworthy. So you're saying that if he had rolled out a plan people wouldn't have listened because he's not trustworthy? I'm really confused by the logic that people didn't listen and no national plan would have worked because politicans sucked. Yet for the entire 4 years he was in office I was told Trump was a true leader, told it like it is and was more trustworthy since he didn't come from the swamp. So by that logic if Trump had come up with a plan people should have followed it. But he didn't. they very clearly listen, because 40% of the bullshit can be traced directly back to him, and a mob of thousands attacked the capitol at his command. if he had been as concerned about stopping the plague as stopping the steal, we would all be walking around mask-free by now.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 23, 2021 11:09:02 GMT -5
And other countries did so much better. COVID was going to knock us on our ass, but it did not need to be this bad. For a country that has one of the best systems in the world, this is a perfect example of how politics interfered with the science. Politics interfered in EVERY aspect of dealing with this pandemic, to the detriment of the US. This wasn’t a blue or red state issue. We have a proportion of the population who never saw it as a problem, and went about their life as if COVID didn’t exist (and yes, there are certain areas of my blue city in my blue state that I avoid as they are potential problems). That was sufficient to exacerbate the problem for everyone who complied, and overburdening our healthcare system. So we would've done better to just have a population that follows the rules laid out by politicians that have burned them in the past? Did you think that 30+ years of bickering, corrupt politicians would instill trust among the US people? Do you think gov't officials earned that level of trust? You all seem surprised that there wasn't compliance, I'm not surprised at all. You are absolutely right - it was Red county versus Blue county issue. It was a power issue between Republican and Democratic politicians. What a great way to cause chaos - have two Authority figures giving diametrically opposed information/plans of action and let the Everyman decide for himself which to follow.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 11:10:16 GMT -5
My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. Dude - people were still traveling and getting together - see my post about the MONTHLY travel plans of my sibling during 2020. The lock downs were also County by County. Just because you couldn't eat in a restaurant in Cook County - it didn't mean you couldn't drive to Dupage or McHenry or Will County and enjoy a nice restaurant meal - or sit in a bar and drink and watch sports. That would be a 1 hour drive or less. Have you forgotten already?? The States couldn't enforce anything and couldn't get it's own counties to agree. Especially the Red Counties in Blue States. Remember how trump was whipping up his supporters and DEMANDING loyalty?? Do you really think the Red Counties in Blue States were gonna go along with the Blue leadership?? When trump was attacking Blue State leaders for their covid19 response?? Where was the leadership? America's response to Covid19 was "every man for himself" or maybe "every man gets decide how he wants to deal with Covid19". it was worse than that. it was perceived as a "blue state problem", so Trump just let it go. that is horrendous on the face of it. if Democrats were all Kurdish, this would be called genocide.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Feb 23, 2021 11:11:02 GMT -5
My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. you still had cases because so many states were NOT locked down.
and you have to love the "armchair quarterback" defense. the fact is that we HAD NO QUARTERBACK. if we did, we would have had a coordinated approach that saves lives. if you don't believe that, I guess that is ok. but when your country fails to do as good a job as 180 other countries, you can't just sit there and dismiss the critique as "second guessing". not without being laughed out of the room, anyway.
When you spend 50 years tearing down the "other side", are you surprised that the President can't join the nation with a common goal? Besides, nobody could convince states/cities/counties to lockdown for months on end. Lockdowns are the equivalent of abstinence for teens, sure they work, but good luck getting compliance! So it's not even worth talking about it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 23, 2021 11:11:10 GMT -5
My blue state was locked down for weeks and we still had a lot of cases, stayed restricted and still have a lot of cases. You sit there with your pen/paper and do calculations on what could've happened if we just X, Y, Z. It's easy to do that when you don't actually have to convince people that you are trustworthy and should be listened to. Making calculations on the piece of paper is the easy part. you still had cases because so many states were NOT locked down.
and you have to love the "armchair quarterback" defense. the fact is that we HAD NO QUARTERBACK. if we did, we would have had a coordinated approach that saves lives. if you don't believe that, I guess that is ok. but when your country fails to do as good a job as 180 other countries, you can't just sit there and dismiss the critique as "second guessing". not without being laughed out of the room, anyway.
And as a reminder: (CNN)"I'm a cheerleader for the country," President Donald Trump said in his final coronavirus press conference in March — a month in which the US death toll increased from two to more than 4,000.
...
But, with apologies to cheerleaders, Trump is confronting a crisis he can't hype his way out of. He is standing on the sidelines, out of his depth and now we're all paying the price.
What we need in the presidency right now is a quarterback — someone who calmly calls strategic plays under intense pressure.
link
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 23, 2021 11:14:39 GMT -5
you still had cases because so many states were NOT locked down.
and you have to love the "armchair quarterback" defense. the fact is that we HAD NO QUARTERBACK. if we did, we would have had a coordinated approach that saves lives. if you don't believe that, I guess that is ok. but when your country fails to do as good a job as 180 other countries, you can't just sit there and dismiss the critique as "second guessing". not without being laughed out of the room, anyway.
Well we couldn't have done as good as those 180 countries because. ..reasons. Just like we can't look at any other country for other issues we grapple with because it just cannot possibly ever be adapted to work for us because. ..reasons.
We're a special snowflake that way. The Midwest totally ignored COVID because our rugged pioneer spirit was going to save us. We weren't living in fancy crowded cities like the coasts. Bullshit that deaths couldn't have been prevented in either Iowa or Nebraska if we had gotten on the ball with the rest of the country instead of waiting for it to come to us. Bullshit Ricketts and Reynolds could have gotten away with the things they've done if they had been held accountable on a national level. They already follow Trump in calling a hoax, if he had taken it seriously and the plan came out of his mouth they would have followed that too. substitute "American Exceptionalism" for "reasons" and you have one of the main things that killed half a million Americans.
we seem to think that God protects us, because we are better than other people. well, guess what? God is just as responsible for the virus as he is protecting us. and if we don't come together and address our OWN problems, he is not there to protect us from his other creations.
this desperation to cling onto a time where we were more exceptional than we are now is preventing us from becoming more exceptional than we are now.
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