Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 4, 2019 14:08:36 GMT -5
I do not believe in a large part of Obama's policies. If Obama ran against Trump I would vote for Trump. that does not mean that I think Obama is a bad guy, like some of you like to think. If it was between hanging out with Obama and Trump, I would totally hang out with Obama. But I don't vote on personality. The problem is the "new cool" is to be extremely progressive. I will have an open mind but someone like Elizabeth Warren will not get my vote. I'm letting the dems weed themselves so I can focus on the policies of the nominated candidates. My guess is there are going to be a good chunk of people voting against a candidate and not for one. Just like in 2016. the die hard liberals will vote dem no matter who the candidate is. The extreme right will vote republican. Those aren't the votes that will matter. Oh FFS! You aren’t going to vote for a Dem if they walked on water. You are going to vote for the serial liar who bragged about sexually assaulting women and mocked a disabled man. Who is clearly the most corrupt incompetent person who ever held the office. So please stop with the coyness. Anyone can see through it You are always such a delight
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 4, 2019 14:20:44 GMT -5
I do not believe in a large part of Obama's policies. If Obama ran against Trump I would vote for Trump. that does not mean that I think Obama is a bad guy, like some of you like to think. If it was between hanging out with Obama and Trump, I would totally hang out with Obama. But I don't vote on personality. The problem is the "new cool" is to be extremely progressive. I will have an open mind but someone like Elizabeth Warren will not get my vote. I'm letting the dems weed themselves so I can focus on the policies of the nominated candidates. My guess is there are going to be a good chunk of people voting against a candidate and not for one. Just like in 2016. the die hard liberals will vote dem no matter who the candidate is. The extreme right will vote republican. Those aren't the votes that will matter. I saw some poll numbers this weekend ( on the TV, so I can't link to them) that showed that Trump has almost exactly the same percentage of supporters in the blue collar white male category as he had in 2016. That chunk is firmly pro-Trump, regardless. And you're right, there is another chunk of voters who would vote for any Dem candidate, regardless, so that chunk is firm too.
The 2020 election will come down to independent voters, I think. Plus, a lot will depend on how well motivated different voting blocks are to get out to the polls. There has been some waffling in the evangelistic voters because they don't like what Trump did in Syria, and you know those voters won't vote for a Dem, but they may not be motivated to vote for Trump. Similarly, I think there are a lot of independents who are looking for a moderate, steady, unflashy, no tweeting candidate, and they might come out to vote for Biden, but while they probably won't vote for Trump if Warren gets the nomination instead, will they bother to come out to vote for Warren if they think she's too left leaning? I think, depending on the Dem candidate, turnout might be good or bad for minority voters and the millennial vote, too.
Too many moving parts. We'll know better when the Dems pick their candidate, I guess.
I can't speak to independents but I know I will not be voting for her. But to me, not voting is not an option. Not voting against someone is just like giving them my vote, IMHO.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 4, 2019 14:36:52 GMT -5
actually, I disagree with that. I think his chances are about the same as Sanders. but I have never really thought much of his chances. I can elaborate if anyone is interested, but I doubt anyone is, and that is precisely his problem. I would be interested in it. He has risen in all the polls just like Obama did when he was considered the longest of longshots against Hilary about this time in th cycle back then. Three months ago I wondered why he was bothering to do it. Today, not so much........although I consider his chances very slim. other than a few polls in the last year, he has really not been above 20%. his numbers waver between 13 and 17, and that is just not going to make it.
but furthermore, most of the candidates have pirated his positions. I know that SOME people care about "going with the original", but Americans also buy shiny copies. it is a known fact.
the man has no momentum at all. then again, neither do Biden and Warren at this juncture. but Sanders also has a serious "early states" problem. he is not going to win any of them, as far as I can tell, and he is not even competitive in most.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 4, 2019 14:39:32 GMT -5
I saw some poll numbers this weekend ( on the TV, so I can't link to them) that showed that Trump has almost exactly the same percentage of supporters in the blue collar white male category as he had in 2016. That chunk is firmly pro-Trump, regardless. And you're right, there is another chunk of voters who would vote for any Dem candidate, regardless, so that chunk is firm too.
The 2020 election will come down to independent voters, I think. Plus, a lot will depend on how well motivated different voting blocks are to get out to the polls. There has been some waffling in the evangelistic voters because they don't like what Trump did in Syria, and you know those voters won't vote for a Dem, but they may not be motivated to vote for Trump. Similarly, I think there are a lot of independents who are looking for a moderate, steady, unflashy, no tweeting candidate, and they might come out to vote for Biden, but while they probably won't vote for Trump if Warren gets the nomination instead, will they bother to come out to vote for Warren if they think she's too left leaning? I think, depending on the Dem candidate, turnout might be good or bad for minority voters and the millennial vote, too.
Too many moving parts. We'll know better when the Dems pick their candidate, I guess.
I can't speak to independents but I know I will not be voting for her. But to me, not voting is not an option. Not voting against someone is just like giving them my vote, IMHO. no. not voting against someone is voting FOR someone.
try it. it feels way better than "negative voting".
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Nov 4, 2019 15:32:05 GMT -5
No way in Hell will or nor many other left leaning folks vote for Sanders. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT!
To me, that takes him out of the running right there...what he is doing is a lie!
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 4, 2019 16:13:57 GMT -5
No way in Hell will or nor many other left leaning folks vote for Sanders. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT! To me, that takes him out of the running right there...what he is doing is a lie! Bernie is a nightmare.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 5, 2019 10:18:33 GMT -5
No way in Hell will or nor many other left leaning folks vote for Sanders. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT! To me, that takes him out of the running right there...what he is doing is a lie! Can you explain that? I am surprised because to me his is pretty left leaning so I want to understand why the left won't vote for him. I also don't believe that if it is between Trump and Sanders that many left leaning people won't vote for Sanders, unless you mean just for the nomination.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 5, 2019 10:41:32 GMT -5
No way in Hell will or nor many other left leaning folks vote for Sanders. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT! To me, that takes him out of the running right there...what he is doing is a lie! Can you explain that? I am surprised because to me his is pretty left leaning so I want to understand why the left won't vote for him. I also don't believe that if it is between Trump and Sanders that many left leaning people won't vote for Sanders, unless you mean just for the nomination. he's too far left. I'm looking for some moderates, hopefully they will pull us out of our collective polarized nuttiness he's also too old.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Nov 5, 2019 10:50:12 GMT -5
If the democrats put forth a moderate candidate who wasn't promising more handouts that will end up taxing what's left of the middle class into extinction then they'd have a real good chance but that isn't the case. If it wasn't for Trump's daily words and actions (simply put, being Trump) I think he'd beat Warren/Sanders/Biden. Warren is delusional when she talks about paying for her plans, Sanders is at least honest about how his will be paid for but he can barely make it through the primaries physically and Biden just hasn't responded like you'd want to see the leading candidate respond when attacked and questioned. I definitely don't agree with Gabbard on everything but I respect and like her the most out of the candidates. Unfortunately for her I think the DNC powers that be have already decided there's no way she'll get a fair shake as evidenced by the attacks against her. If she runs on a third party platform I'd strongly consider voting for her but I think that would ultimately hurt the D's more than Trump. As it is right now I think Trump would win but if the economy turns, he continues to step in it or the D's put forth a viable candidate anything can happen come next November.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 5, 2019 10:55:23 GMT -5
Oh FFS! You aren’t going to vote for a Dem if they walked on water. You are going to vote for the serial liar who bragged about sexually assaulting women and mocked a disabled man. Who is clearly the most corrupt incompetent person who ever held the office. So please stop with the coyness. Anyone can see through it You are always such a delight Agree with u there
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 5, 2019 13:11:18 GMT -5
Can you explain that? I am surprised because to me his is pretty left leaning so I want to understand why the left won't vote for him. I also don't believe that if it is between Trump and Sanders that many left leaning people won't vote for Sanders, unless you mean just for the nomination. he's too far left. I'm looking for some moderates, hopefully they will pull us out of our collective polarized nuttiness he's also too old. I'm not disagreeing that he is too far left.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 5, 2019 13:12:52 GMT -5
If the democrats put forth a moderate candidate who wasn't promising more handouts that will end up taxing what's left of the middle class into extinction then they'd have a real good chance but that isn't the case. If it wasn't for Trump's daily words and actions (simply put, being Trump) I think he'd beat Warren/Sanders/Biden. Warren is delusional when she talks about paying for her plans, Sanders is at least honest about how his will be paid for but he can barely make it through the primaries physically and Biden just hasn't responded like you'd want to see the leading candidate respond when attacked and questioned. I definitely don't agree with Gabbard on everything but I respect and like her the most out of the candidates. Unfortunately for her I think the DNC powers that be have already decided there's no way she'll get a fair shake as evidenced by the attacks against her. If she runs on a third party platform I'd strongly consider voting for her but I think that would ultimately hurt the D's more than Trump. As it is right now I think Trump would win but if the economy turns, he continues to step in it or the D's put forth a viable candidate anything can happen come next November. I think this is a deliberate strategy on Biden's part.
People are sick to death of Trump' abrasive personality, nasty tweets and daily drama. Obama famously always said 'when they go low, you go high' - it's very hard to remember any snarky comments he made (or Bush Jr, either) because prior to Trump, presidents acted with dignity and always got their minions to throw the mud for them. I think Biden is trying to demonstrate the lost art of presidential dignity, but I'm certain, once the primaries are over, the negative Dem ads against Trump will power up. They won't have Biden in them, but they will be going after Trump aggressively, and he's given them plenty of ammo to use against him.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 5, 2019 13:31:12 GMT -5
he's too far left. I'm looking for some moderates, hopefully they will pull us out of our collective polarized nuttiness he's also too old. I'm not disagreeing that he is too far left. I heard him railing against corporations this morning, following Apple's announcement that they would offer housing assistance.
this is precisely the wrong message. when corporations step up, they should be given accolades, not condemned for giving "pennies" to a problem for PR purposes (even if it is true).
his messaging is way to confrontational for the 80+% of the public that he has not convinced of his candidacy.
note: I like Sanders. he is incredibly principled. I admire that. and I think he is a good man. he is just not mainstream enough to win, imo.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Nov 5, 2019 13:44:13 GMT -5
If the democrats put forth a moderate candidate who wasn't promising more handouts that will end up taxing what's left of the middle class into extinction then they'd have a real good chance but that isn't the case. If it wasn't for Trump's daily words and actions (simply put, being Trump) I think he'd beat Warren/Sanders/Biden. Warren is delusional when she talks about paying for her plans, Sanders is at least honest about how his will be paid for but he can barely make it through the primaries physically and Biden just hasn't responded like you'd want to see the leading candidate respond when attacked and questioned. I definitely don't agree with Gabbard on everything but I respect and like her the most out of the candidates. Unfortunately for her I think the DNC powers that be have already decided there's no way she'll get a fair shake as evidenced by the attacks against her. If she runs on a third party platform I'd strongly consider voting for her but I think that would ultimately hurt the D's more than Trump. As it is right now I think Trump would win but if the economy turns, he continues to step in it or the D's put forth a viable candidate anything can happen come next November. I think this is a deliberate strategy on Biden's part.
People are sick to death of Trump' abrasive personality, nasty tweets and daily drama. Obama famously always said 'when they go low, you go high' - it's very hard to remember any snarky comments he made (or Bush Jr, either) because prior to Trump, presidents acted with dignity and always got their minions to throw the mud for them. I think Biden is trying to demonstrate the lost art of presidential dignity, but I'm certain, once the primaries are over, the negative Dem ads against Trump will power up. They won't have Biden in them, but they will be going after Trump aggressively, and he's given them plenty of ammo to use against him. I'm talking about from his own party particularly at the debates. The first debate he came in the front runner and seemed unprepared and surprised that the other candidates came after him like him getting the nomination was a given. Trump isn't the biggest threat to Biden, Warren and Sanders right now it's their own party, whether or not they cannibalize each other in the primaries and ultimately whether or not the candidate that wins can appeal to middle of the road voters. In 2016 Sanders got screwed by the DNC and while he ultimately endorsed Hillary some of his supporters didn't. Biden is more moderate than Warren and Sanders yet he seems almost timid to represent that fact. Aside from the voters that are always going to be far left/right the rest regardless of party affiliation are closer to the middle than they are the extremes. The dems would be better off having a candidate who can appeal to those voters in a general election.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Nov 5, 2019 16:16:38 GMT -5
locking this thread *temporarily*.
You all know that abortion isn't a topic for this board, even if it pertains to a political platform/ candidate. Take it to the inferno, and I'll move the affected posts there, then unlock this thread again.
~Laura/ admin
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Nov 6, 2019 9:33:28 GMT -5
Unlocking, now that all abortion related posts have (I think) been removed.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 6, 2019 9:54:54 GMT -5
Mississippi kept their GOP governor, by something like 5% of the vote.
Kentucky voted in, barely, a Dem. governor. It's not official yet but I think I saw something like a 5,000 vote difference. Virginia is now Dem. in their House, Senate, and Governor.
No idea on what NJ did, but I assume they stayed Dem.
The difference, from what I read/skimmed, is in the suburbs. The urban areas voted Dem, as expected. The rural areas voted GOP, as expected. The suburbs flipped and voted Dem instead of GOP.
I was skimming and I'm slammed at work so no links but the sites were fivethirtyeight; politico, AP, and the Washington Post.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 6, 2019 10:47:27 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 6, 2019 10:58:05 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 6, 2019 11:50:44 GMT -5
as do I.
in fact, I think he has a good chance.
do I think it is probable? no.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 6, 2019 11:57:54 GMT -5
There's so much going on right now, and I imagine it will continue to be a shit storm right up to the election. Who knows what might happen. But yes, Trump winning again is possible.
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Nov 6, 2019 12:13:11 GMT -5
No way in Hell will or nor many other left leaning folks vote for Sanders. He is NOT A DEMOCRAT! To me, that takes him out of the running right there...what he is doing is a lie! Can you explain that? I am surprised because to me his is pretty left leaning so I want to understand why the left won't vote for him. I also don't believe that if it is between Trump and Sanders that many left leaning people won't vote for Sanders, unless you mean just for the nomination. No, I won't vote for him in the primary or in a general election. He isn't aligned with me on most issues...way too far left, in fact...out of sight for many of us. He is NOT a Democrat and his running as one is a lie...that puts me off as much as anything. If you can't be truthful and make any headway, you shouldn't be in the race in the first place. I'll write in my choice before voting for him. And now that he has had a heart attack...that should make every person that would vote for him...think twice and take a longer look at a younger person. We need someone closer to center cause none of these wild ideas is going to get thru Congress. Having a wish list is great, but let's get real...and let's also consider the long term effects of anything done instead just what it does for the moment. Just heard on CNN that Biden is standing up to Warren's "her way or the highway"...GOOD! I don't like her M4A either & I'm on medicare. It should be a choice like Pete has been saying all along.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2019 12:55:21 GMT -5
Medicare for all is pandering to the democratic party's base. I think Warren should have stayed more moderate on that one. She may have really stepped in some doo doo on that one.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 6, 2019 13:19:14 GMT -5
Can you explain that? I am surprised because to me his is pretty left leaning so I want to understand why the left won't vote for him. I also don't believe that if it is between Trump and Sanders that many left leaning people won't vote for Sanders, unless you mean just for the nomination. No, I won't vote for him in the primary or in a general election. He isn't aligned with me on most issues...way too far left, in fact...out of sight for many of us. He is NOT a Democrat and his running as one is a lie...that puts me off as much as anything. If you can't be truthful and make any headway, you shouldn't be in the race in the first place. I'll write in my choice before voting for him. And now that he has had a heart attack...that should make every person that would vote for him...think twice and take a longer look at a younger person. We need someone closer to center cause none of these wild ideas is going to get thru Congress. Having a wish list is great, but let's get real...and let's also consider the long term effects of anything done instead just what it does for the moment. Just heard on CNN that Biden is standing up to Warren's "her way or the highway"...GOOD! I don't like her M4A either & I'm on medicare. It should be a choice like Pete has been saying all along. I HOPE those wild ideas don't get thru congress. The cost of some of these programs boggles my mind. Do they think we can just print money? I'm terrified that these actually will get thru congress if the dems take everything.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 6, 2019 13:37:43 GMT -5
No, I won't vote for him in the primary or in a general election. He isn't aligned with me on most issues...way too far left, in fact...out of sight for many of us. He is NOT a Democrat and his running as one is a lie...that puts me off as much as anything. If you can't be truthful and make any headway, you shouldn't be in the race in the first place. I'll write in my choice before voting for him. And now that he has had a heart attack...that should make every person that would vote for him...think twice and take a longer look at a younger person. We need someone closer to center cause none of these wild ideas is going to get thru Congress. Having a wish list is great, but let's get real...and let's also consider the long term effects of anything done instead just what it does for the moment. Just heard on CNN that Biden is standing up to Warren's "her way or the highway"...GOOD! I don't like her M4A either & I'm on medicare. It should be a choice like Pete has been saying all along. I HOPE those wild ideas don't get thru congress. The cost of some of these programs boggles my mind. Do they think we can just print money? I'm terrified that these actually will get thru congress if the dems take everything. I don't think medicare for all has a chance of getting through anytime soon, due to the powerful insurance lobby and the high cost. So I wouldn't worry about that.
If a Dem did get elected, I think they would try to fix some of the problems of the ACA and possibly allow people to buy into medicare, rather than buy private insurance on the market, if they want.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 6, 2019 13:42:50 GMT -5
I think if Bernie dropped out Warren and others would move back towards center. A lot of Bernie supporters stayed home rather than back Hillary so I imagine Democrats are feeling the pressure to try to sway his base.
I wish Bernie would drop out. I respect that he has principals but whenever I see his ads I feel like he's going to be just as polarizing as Trump but in the opposite direction.
I like Pete but I don't think he has a shot, but then I didn't think Obama would beat Hillary for the nomination so you never know for sure.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Nov 6, 2019 13:56:10 GMT -5
If they want to work on ACA which I think makes the most sense I just wish they'd run on that. Less than a decade ago ACA was passed and now 2 of the 3 main candidates are pushing something bigger. If the ACA was just a stepping stone to something bigger like M4A that is incredibly disingenuous and makes me trust them even less. I definitely don't respect any politician who swings to the extreme to win their parties nomination then tries to come back to the middle in the general election. Pandering is nothing new but the things being discussed now to try to swing voters seem to have reached a new level.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Nov 6, 2019 14:16:49 GMT -5
I think Trump is going to win and I'm a democrat.
All 3 front runners are to damn old! Give it up already, yet some young fresh blood come in.....someone that can relate more to the voters.
Warren is about as likeable as Clinton was! Bernie is a wacko! Biden is a perv!
If Trump is re-elected, it won't be because he "won" per se but more because the democrats lost to themselves!
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 6, 2019 14:52:29 GMT -5
If the democrats put forth a moderate candidate who wasn't promising more handouts that will end up taxing what's left of the middle class into extinction then they'd have a real good chance but that isn't the case. If it wasn't for Trump's daily words and actions (simply put, being Trump) I think he'd beat Warren/Sanders/Biden. Warren is delusional when she talks about paying for her plans, Sanders is at least honest about how his will be paid for but he can barely make it through the primaries physically and Biden just hasn't responded like you'd want to see the leading candidate respond when attacked and questioned. I definitely don't agree with Gabbard on everything but I respect and like her the most out of the candidates. Unfortunately for her I think the DNC powers that be have already decided there's no way she'll get a fair shake as evidenced by the attacks against her. If she runs on a third party platform I'd strongly consider voting for her but I think that would ultimately hurt the D's more than Trump. As it is right now I think Trump would win but if the economy turns, he continues to step in it or the D's put forth a viable candidate anything can happen come next November. I think this is a deliberate strategy on Biden's part.
People are sick to death of Trump' abrasive personality, nasty tweets and daily drama. Obama famously always said 'when they go low, you go high' - it's very hard to remember any snarky comments he made (or Bush Jr, either) because prior to Trump, presidents acted with dignity and always got their minions to throw the mud for them. I think Biden is trying to demonstrate the lost art of presidential dignity, but I'm certain, once the primaries are over, the negative Dem ads against Trump will power up. They won't have Biden in them, but they will be going after Trump aggressively, and he's given them plenty of ammo to use against him.
I also feel that Joe B will be more then capable to give back in kind if needed to the Donald if needed in person...say on stage during debates...if the Donald tries his circling and lurking as he did with Hillery...Don't expect a turn and a knee in a sensitive spot.. {could get one self killed because of Presidential security...realize Joe would have protection too as the prime candidate but emphasis would be on the Donald} but short of physical back and forth, believe Joe very capable to take care of business..
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 6, 2019 14:59:32 GMT -5
I will not vote for Sanders in a primary because I don't believe he is reliably pro-choice. I do not believe he is committed to protecting women's choice. I also think he's too old and I resent him running on the Dem ticket when he is not a Dem.
As far as any of the other candidates, I'll vote for whoever is on the Dem ticket because any of them is a better choice than the sorry individual currently in office.
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