Tween girls

[azucena]

Yeah, so DD went in and told the teacher we decided to remain on level....and the teacher seems to have proceeded to ignore that and given her the book and homework for advanced.  But, DD is so scared of this teacher that she didn't clarify and wasn't sure but based on the kids she mentioned in the class I was pretty sure it was advanced.  Called another mom and confirmed.  Long drawn out argument with DD saying she will work really hard to keep up and the homework today was "so easy" so it shouldn't be a big deal.  Um, it was day 1 of class, of course the homework is easy.  Then, after stomping off to her room screaming at me, she later sidles back out and says can you help me with a few of these problems.  Hello?!  I thought it was too easy.  I adulted and didn't pile on.  Another argument about how I don't think she can do it.  That's totally not the thing kid - I see no reason to try to push forward and do it.  I'd rather focus on mastering this building block material and gaining confidence than racing ahead and only understanding 75% or whatever.

Later at bedtime, she finally admitted she is pushing back so hard because what if she can't keep up in the on level class and gets "bumped down" again to below level?  Oh geez, what a burden to worry about it and so, so, so unlikely to happen.  And even if it did, the class is split 2 advanced, 8 on level, and 9 below so who really cares either way is the majority.  And for the love of God, please, please, please tell me your actual fear about 3 hours earlier in the conversation when I point blank ask you "what's your actual fear" because I've learned that reasons 1,2,3 are truthful but never the root of the problem. Nope, the root is always reason 999.

And, I so did not need this whole math debacle right off the bat because our math relationship is already strained since I'm an actuary "who's a math genius" according to her and she can "never, ever, possibly measure up."  Um, not looking for you to be an exact version of me, in fact I would rather you not be quite as much like me as you already are if I'm honest.  I try and try to be very conscious of how I approach all things math with her because I know she's given herself this burden of pressure.  This is a small part of why I'm advocating for her to stay on level in the first place because I think it's the very best thing for her.

And you can bet your sweet bippy that I'll be meeting privately with this teacher after school today.  I also already have an appt with the principal to express my "displeasure" at being undermined and overruled.  

And I'm feeling all the mommy guilts about having several major confidence undermining situations lately when it's so, so clear to me that she desperately needs confidence booster right now.  Ridiculous because it's not like I caused them, but I get to bust my ass to attempt to undo all of the damage.

[geenamercile]

I don't think your dd is trying to hide the root fear or reason bit most likely have to go through the other reasons first to process down to the root reason. And the discussing it with you is how she is processing it. Working with the kids I work with it is almost never the first several reasons for what ever issue they are having that they give. And in the end it ia giving the time they need to work down to the root issue. I have had to train myself not to rush them too, which at times can be diffcult when I have already figured out where we are going. And for some reason having that patience with ODD is so much harder then with my students. I think part of it with ODD is the idea that she should innately listen to me, while with my students I know I nees to earn that trust.

[geenamercile]

And the teacher should not have moved her to the advance when you said not to.

[chapeau]

As the math-normal child of a "math genius," (dad is an electrical engineer. As an added bonus, he's a slide rule, no-calculator trained engineer, so he really knows the nuts and bolts of math), I sympathize with your daughter. I also sympathize with you, because I know my dad was often at the end of his rope with my non-understanding of "simple" math (algebra and calculus, so not so simple, really).  Not every brain is wired to do math, but you know that. And for some kids it's like reading. One day you can't, and then it suddenly makes sense.

I also know that parent logic is not always appreciated by kids at this point. Does she have friends in the advanced math and none in the regular math? Or is there a possibility that advanced math is a requirement for something else she wants to do in school? It's not the same, but you had to be in advanced English when I was in high school to do yearbook (yeah, I still don't understand it). Could there be something like that involved? Also, is this her "only chance" to get into advanced math? We were stuck in high school, since you couldn't do Geometry as a freshman if you hadn't had Algebra 1 in 8th grade. There was no way to do 2 math classes in one year, so once you were in your track that was it. Calculus was only an option for seniors if you'd had Alg 1 in 8th grade, too. It was a really dumb system, honestly...

If it makes you feel any better at all, I really enjoy math now, to the point of minoring in stats in college.

[azucena]

Thanks for the input ladies.  

Green - I don't think she's hiding the true reason either.  But, how do you help them process thru to the true reason?  math in particular always derails quickly from discussion to pure emotions and lots of screaming on her part.  But even typical bad school day stuff can take a couple of hours to finally hear that she wasn't really upset by the wrong snack or whatever trigger - it was really friend A said something that I would consider benign about her shoes and that must mean she doesn't like her anymore.  It's exhausting. 

Chapeau - thanks for the insights.  Fortunately, I have no trouble explaining the homework to her in ways that she understands and she really wouldn't even need much help if she could just shut off her negative emotions about math.  The kid did a 10 page research paper over the course of two months for 4th grade with 0 input or guidance from me.  Stayed on track with mini-deadlines, research, writing, the whole thing.  But give her a math wkst and she cries about how hard it's going to be before she even gets to problem 1.  It's been this way for a couple of yrs now.  Unfortunately, DH is terrible at math, like failed the same classes multiple times, and only finally passed them when he managed to find a teacher who would give him take home tests that I would coach him through.  So turning this issue to him is not going to help.

Adv math is two boys so no friend issue.  No pre-requirements except the stupid teacher's rant about it leading to algebra sooner and then eventually could do calc for college credit in hs and "save your mom a ton of money".  Yeah a 10 yo needs that pressure.

Each yr they re-evaluate levels so we talked with the teacher originally about how if she really settled in this year, she could do adv next yr.

Another complicating factor is that I had both girls in summer math programs and DD5 was doing two digit addition and subtraction without having started Kindergarten yet.  It was scary to sit with her and watch her process stuff no one had ever explained yet.  I have no idea if she tops me at that age because no one worked with me.  And, I'm not pushing her, just following her lead and enrolled her because she was interested and it was easier to take them both to the testings instead of trying to occupy her while we waited.  DD10 can already tell that lil sis has a natural math talent.  So we are having clear conversations about how God gives us each skills and talents and they can be very different and that's okay.  DD10 tested at post high school reading and English levels and will diagram sentences with me for fun and I value you that just as much as the math.  Heck, I'd even honestly be ok with her in the lower level of math if she would just work past the brain block of I can't do it.

[thyme4change]

I recall a child psychologist saying something like 'When your teen comes home from school and you ask them how their day was and they shrug, it is because they genuinely don't know how their day was. It takes them a lot of time to process their day because of where their brains are in the development process.' So, he prescribed patience and circling back as many times as they need to get through it.

Easier said than done.

[geenamercile]

I talk with my students on how things build up, the whole straw that breaks the camel back thing.  So we start with the straw that broke the camels back, and then I asked about well what happened before that.  We dissect the day going back, good and bad.  Because, the drop of from something good to something bad can also be trigger.  For an example if a kid had an awesome time in 1st block, but then had a bit of a bummer experience in second, like getting a paper back with a lower grade, because of the brain comparison to the great time in 1st block that experience can seem worse then if 1st block had only been okay.  And even at the middle school level the picture chart on emotions can really help.  It gives a visual and names to a bunch of emotions that they may not be able to name.  I swear I am 10 times better with my students at school then I seem to be with my own daughter.  I have kids who aren't even on my case load, but because I am in the classes I am in come to me with issues and to chat about things, but my own daughter just grunts and mumbles at me, and loudly says "Okay" and "I got it" whenever I try to talk with her. 

Right now I am trying to decide how to handle the fact that ODD got a C on her quiz today.  I know if she spent about 10 mins studying last night she most likely would have gotten an A.  However, on the other hand it is the first week back to school and it went over all pretty well.  And getting her to school, participating, and feeling confident is the bigger issue.  At least DH has decided that he will drive her to school so she doesn't have to ride the bus.        

[chapeau]

Yeah, DH has trouble with basic arithmetic even when he uses a calculator. If I didn't worry he'd have DD believing that the evidence of her fingers was wrong and 2+2 did in fact equal 5, it would be hilarious to let him try to help her with her homework just once.

Would outsourcing the math assistance help? Tutor, after school program, friend, neighbor? It seems ridiculous when she has access to a math expert, but the mother-daughter relationship has enough baggage. Offloading this might make other things easier to handle.

And she's 10? I'd probably tell that teacher to stuff it, the mental health issues she's causing/exacerbating will cost a lot more than paying for a couple of college credits.

I can still hear my dad telling me that my problem with math wasn't how I did math. It was how I approached math. I definitely yelled at him a lot, and he yelled back (very similar personalities).

And I love your ODD. I once diagrammed a truly horrific sentence, ended up taping together 17 pieces of paper to get the whole sentence done, and trailed them down the hallway behind me to the office of my coworker who had written the sentence. Didn't actually have to say anything. The visual of the paper trail was enough.

[azucena]

DD did get dropped back to on level after I sent the note.

I took a mom friend for previously scheduled coffee in which I had planned to pick her brain about a number of topics.  Her DD is 16 and we've figured out thru the years, just how similar the two girls personalities line up.  Plus, I really respect this mom's parenting skills/style.

She gave me a lot of insight into this teacher.  Said she made DD16 cry at least a couple of times during that first week of 5th grade too.  Also said that if you asked DD16 now, she will name this as her favorite teacher without hesitation and one who prepped her the most, not just for math, but also with study skills, organization, preparedness, etc.  That mama had to hold her tongue on occasion as her daughter struggled thru it.  She provided lots of details that made a lot of sense, so I'm going to keep an open mind and keep an eye on the situation.  DD knew that I had this mtg so me being able to say DD16 had the same rough start and now loves this teacher carries a lot of weight.

Two other tidbits of parenting knowledge came from that conversation
1. Family hobbies - we limit screen time and media choices (music, movies, etc) and this has caused DD10 to feel left out when her peers are discussing youtube, PG13 movies, pop music, etc.  This family sticks with the same conservative values, and the mom learned to make a point about the things that their family DID do so the daughter could say, that's cool, my family isn't into movies, but we are into hiking, this weekend we did 3 miles at ____.  They also went to a lot of live music at parks as well as Christian concerts.  She said they tried to find at least one/month so DD16 would always have something current to add to the conversation.  I think this will help my DD too.  It won't fix the problem, but will help.  We also talked about taking the girls to an upcoming concert together which will DD10 will be over the moon about because what 10 yo wouldn't want to go with an older teen!

2. Parenting by eavesdropping - this is how she's tackled some of the tough issues.  She knows their DD is listening, not even eavesdropping in a negative way, just typical overhearing that happens in a household.  So, she and her husband will discuss current events including their worldview within earshot and at this point because their DD is old enough, there isn't much they are "censoring".  Like there was a tragic teen drinking and driving fatality a few weeks ago, and their breakfast conversation was about how they have told DD to call them if she's ever somewhere and can't drive and how they have also made that offer to her close friend group with no repercussions.  And wondered out loud if that teen had any offers like that and if he worried he would get in trouble and how even getting in trouble was better than the accident that occurred.  

Anyway, sharing because "talking" through these will help me remember to put them into practice and maybe someone else here can benefit.

[azucena]

DD10 (5th grade) has a lunch detention today because she's had two late assignments and one incomplete.  She's fully capable of tracking homework herself so we've taken a hands off approach.  She struggles a bit to adjust at the beg of each yr as expectations increase, but then manages to right herself and I hope is learning to cope for the future.  I do feel as though I've failed her a bit this time.  I could see she was struggling worse, but she coped a major attitude every time I made a suggestion.  We told her the detention was punishment enough so nothing extra at home; however, this does mean that clearly her way isn't working so she has to try our suggestions and lose the attitude.  That worked for 75% of homework time last night and then she lost it again.  I told her to go walk around the block - she was shocked but it did seem to help.  Homework is a max of an hour so totally reasonable.  She does have subject teachers this year so rotating schedule and different teacher styles to juggle.

She's about to die from embarrassment from being the first one with detention.  Her teacher said she's way too studious to let this happen.  She's also getting 2 low B's, a C, and a D.  Praying this is the wake-up call she needs.

[Wisconsin Beth]

K had her 10 year old well child visit last week. 4 feet 10.5 inches tall. Weight was clearly wrong because the paperwork has 171 lbs on. She's actually around 120 lbs. I had both kids getting weighed simultaneously at different scales by different nurses so I missed K's.

I bought her a new pair of pants at Target, size 14-16 (xl) and she says they fit great. The old ones come to her ankles and are tight in the waist. We'll do another Target run for more pants next week. I need to suck it up and measure her for bras too.

She loves the cat and is great at her share of the responsibility of pet ownership.

She's struggling a bit with homework but it's week 2 and I think everyone is still getting back into the routine and stuff. I expect her to hit her stride shortly.

[azucena]

DD10 started her period this week. First in her class just before practice so she had her friend go get supplies from her locker just like we planned. It was a bit of a mess when I got there. For a solid 24 hours dd told me several times how kind and helpful I was being as I answered tons of questions. She also said that she was glad I wasn't embarrassed to talk about it. Whew, I have her fooled lol. Don't worry I was only knowledgeable for about a day, by day two I was back to being dumber than dirt.

[thyme4change]

Sept 22, 2018 11:03:46 GMT -5 azucena said:

DD10 started her period this week. First in her class just before practice so she had her friend go get supplies from her locker just like we planned. It was a bit of a mess when I got there. For a solid 24 hours dd told me several times how kind and helpful I was being as I answered tons of questions. She also said that she was glad I wasn't embarrassed to talk about it. Whew, I have her fooled lol. Don't worry I was only knowledgeable for about a day, by day two I was back to being dumber than dirt.

Nearly 50% of all people who have ever walked the earth from the beginning of time, plus half the mammals that ever existed have gone through it. Why do we treat it so weird?

Same with sex. It is a universal experience (nearly) but mention it in a normal way and you are so brave.

[azucena]

I hear you and hopefully I'm raising her to feel much more confident about her own body. My mom only ever said you're going to need these as she handed a box of pads thru the door and don't have sex. So am I conciously and deliberately improving from the last generation.

[zibazinski]

To give my mom credit she tried to do better by me period wise than her mother did. Unfortunately my period started before the box with all the goodies and explanations came in the mail-in a plain brown wrapper. When it did we both had a tearful laugh about it. But I was the one screaming and crying behind a locked bathroom door that I was dying while my mom simultaneously was yelling at my dad to go away and for me to calm down and listen to her. I can still remember it like it was yesterday. I taught elementary PE and I had a few 5th grade girls come up and say they needed to go to the office immediately. I would tell the office we had a code red on the way.

[alabamagal]

We talked openly with our daughter about body changes and getting her period. It didn’t matter because once she got it, she was just horrified that her Dad knew about it.

[alabamagal]

Sept 13, 2018 9:04:33 GMT -5 azucena said:

DD10 (5th grade) has a lunch detention today because she's had two late assignments and one incomplete.  She's fully capable of tracking homework herself so we've taken a hands off approach.  She struggles a bit to adjust at the beg of each yr as expectations increase, but then manages to right herself and I hope is learning to cope for the future.  I do feel as though I've failed her a bit this time.  I could see she was struggling worse, but she coped a major attitude every time I made a suggestion.  We told her the detention was punishment enough so nothing extra at home; however, this does mean that clearly her way isn't working so she has to try our suggestions and lose the attitude.  That worked for 75% of homework time last night and then she lost it again.  I told her to go walk around the block - she was shocked but it did seem to help.  Homework is a max of an hour so totally reasonable.  She does have subject teachers this year so rotating schedule and different teacher styles to juggle.

She's about to die from embarrassment from being the first one with detention.  Her teacher said she's way too studious to let this happen.  She's also getting 2 low B's, a C, and a D.  Praying this is the wake-up call she needs.

My ODS struggled in middle school with organization and it caused a lot of drama. He would do his homework, then not turn it in. One time he got a note sent home about not turning in homework, I signed it, and then the note didn’t get turned it. It just lead to more problems when they gave him detention. My DS always got good grades on tests, so we just told him to do his best and tried to work with him on organization. He really didn’t get better until high school.

[azucena]

Picked up DD10 yesterday before lunch because she wasn't feeling well.  Took her home, gave her ibprofen and had her rest.  Pretty sure it was cramps but towards the end of her cycle which seems weird to me, but I know everyone is different.  Got a call again today, nurse gave her ibprofen and she's laying down for 15 mins and then they will let me know.  DH will have to go get her today because I have too many mtgs.  I can't have her missing school every month, but I'm trying to be sympathetic because cramps suck.  She had her second ever cycle 2 weeks ago but it was brief.  She started again a couple of days ago - more full force.  I suspect she's getting in sync with my cycle which was this week.  I wasn't sure if mine would be stronger to pull hers, but I'm on the pill so mine won't move.

I did buy some of those disposable heating pads that you wear but need to show her how to use them.  Suggestions on how I should try to help her?

[Works4me]

I started skiing in high school and discovered that the months I went skiing I didn't get cramps. Running and power walking on a regular basis also helps - for me, 30 minutes 3-6 times a week does the trick.

[oped]

Nov 6, 2018 11:58:48 GMT -5 azucena said:

Picked up DD10 yesterday before lunch because she wasn't feeling well.  Took her home, gave her ibprofen and had her rest.  Pretty sure it was cramps but towards the end of her cycle which seems weird to me, but I know everyone is different.  Got a call again today, nurse gave her ibprofen and she's laying down for 15 mins and then they will let me know.  DH will have to go get her today because I have too many mtgs.  I can't have her missing school every month, but I'm trying to be sympathetic because cramps suck.  She had her second ever cycle 2 weeks ago but it was brief.  She started again a couple of days ago - more full force.  I suspect she's getting in sync with my cycle which was this week.  I wasn't sure if mine would be stronger to pull hers, but I'm on the pill so mine won't move.

I did buy some of those disposable heating pads that you wear but need to show her how to use them.  Suggestions on how I should try to help her?

My worst cramps are first day, and last day... don’t know why, but it’s always been that way. 

Has she been checked for cysts... I think that right. I had a friend in high school who suffered with them. Her mother had too... her mother said they were worse than labor. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I used to have crippling cramps as a teenager. I know most people claim it's a marketing schtick and it doesn't work any better than Tylenol but I swear the only thing that worked for me is Midol.

Now I have an IUD and I haven't had a period or cramps for 8 years and it's been glorious. I'm seriously considering sticking with them thru menopause because I'm terrified of having a period again. That's how bad they used to be pre birth control.

[azucena]

Nov 7, 2018 9:15:29 GMT -5 oped said:

Nov 6, 2018 11:58:48 GMT -5 azucena said:

Picked up DD10 yesterday before lunch because she wasn't feeling well.  Took her home, gave her ibprofen and had her rest.  Pretty sure it was cramps but towards the end of her cycle which seems weird to me, but I know everyone is different.  Got a call again today, nurse gave her ibprofen and she's laying down for 15 mins and then they will let me know.  DH will have to go get her today because I have too many mtgs.  I can't have her missing school every month, but I'm trying to be sympathetic because cramps suck.  She had her second ever cycle 2 weeks ago but it was brief.  She started again a couple of days ago - more full force.  I suspect she's getting in sync with my cycle which was this week.  I wasn't sure if mine would be stronger to pull hers, but I'm on the pill so mine won't move.

I did buy some of those disposable heating pads that you wear but need to show her how to use them.  Suggestions on how I should try to help her?

My worst cramps are first day, and last day... don’t know why, but it’s always been that way. 

Has she been checked for cysts... I think that right. I had a friend in high school who suffered with them. Her mother had too... her mother said they were worse than labor. 

I'm not worried about anything being wrong, just want to help her deal with them in the best way possible.  Thermacare heating pad helped yesterday and she can easily do that at school.

Will also get midol for next month.

[oped]

So at 10 this is her third cycle, irregular... I don’t know. Can you ask her pain scale about intensity? I think I’d call doc to just check if there are any concerns. You are sure she has her period? She’s had boob growth for over a year? Etc. 

[azucena]

She's 5 foot 1 and 108 lbs and we just moved up to a slightly padded xl bra in the target tween section because she needed the nip coverage; first bra summer of 17 was prob a bit early by a few months.  Def her period.  She had a full 4-5 day first period in Sept and then 4 weeks later 1-2 days of spotting which I figured was because she's irregular.  Now, 2 weeks later it's day 4 of regular bleeding.  She's changing her pad once during the school day, so doesn't sound excessive.  Cramps were the only complaint.  I'll keep checking with her but not concerned.

Does lead me to question when should she start seeing a gyno?  I didn't see one until I was 21 and getting married - yet another thing my mom never thought to tell me.

[TheOtherMe]

May I say thank you to the moms here for being open with your daughters.  

My mom told me nothing and I thought I was bleeding to death when I got my first period.  We were on vacation.  I had horrible cramps and was petrified.  Mom must have thought I was miserable because we went home.  

This was back in the 1960's.  I wish somebody had told me something so I wouldn't have been so frightened and embarrassed.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I didn't worry about it till I was sexually active so 19 for me.

I'd ask her pedi. I know for me personally no matter how many times I go or how many doctors I see or how many kids I've had going to the
gyno is extremely stressful for me.


I could not imagine how awful it would have been as a 10 year old. It's bad enough at 35. I was so thrilled when the rules changed and now you only need a gyno exam every 3 to 5 years if the recent one comes back clean as opposed to yearly.

[oped]

Gyno is generally whennsexualky active.

[mmhmm]

oped, please check your PMs. Thanks. 

[Works4me]

Out of curiosity, I Googled "first gyno appt age." I found many interesting reads but especially liked this one:

medium.com/refinery29/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-my-first-gyno-appointment-bb76c305e4d3

I started early and the best part is it quickly became no-big-deal. I learned to deal with cramps (second fur Midol) and used tampons within a few months in because of ballet. My biggest asset was a mother who talked and listened to me.

[azucena]

www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/well/family/confidence-gap-teen-girls-tips-parents.html

Such a great article about exactly what I see happening with my 10 yo and remember feeling myself at that age and carrying over to today sometimes.