billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2018 13:52:06 GMT -5
"... Until we can have a wall and proper security, we're going to be guarding our border with the military. That's a big step," ... Trump said he is "preparing for the military to secure our border" and he would be attending a meeting on the topic of border security with Mattis and others "in a little while." ... Trump's statement took many Pentagon officials by surprise Tuesday, ...link Yes, Mr. President, that is a very big step. One it would have been good to have had the discussion first before the public announcement. The ramifications of this would be huge for the body politic (which is why this isn't simply a "Current Event")
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2018 14:27:58 GMT -5
A US "Federales" force is a bad idea to get started, particularly by an Administration with as many generals as this one has.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 3, 2018 14:32:29 GMT -5
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 3, 2018 14:34:52 GMT -5
He's got to deliver on his "wall" promise somehow.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 3, 2018 14:35:35 GMT -5
I told my family before the election that I did not want a secure border, b/c if no one could get in, then that would mean the "Undesirable" Dark Skin people Trump & Co don't want won't be able to get out either. Next we will have internment camps.
They are proposing a citizenship question on the Census, which already asks about Nationality, and has a history of being used to round up undesirables. We may need to throw ourselves on the Mercy of Mexico.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 3, 2018 14:37:22 GMT -5
Not a good idea but has been done by Obama and Bush. They used the National Guard with limited powers.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 3, 2018 14:38:12 GMT -5
Maybe when the soldiers are down there, they can spend their off time constructing the wall for him.
They should make it out of paper mache. They can hustle him down to review it prior to the first hard rain, take some pictures of him standing proudly in front of it, and then send it back to Mar A Lago before it falls apart.
Win!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 3, 2018 14:38:39 GMT -5
I imagine certain business lobbies are going to be very busy writing checks to make sure their caravans can still get thru.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 3, 2018 14:48:43 GMT -5
I told my family before the election that I did not want a secure border, b/c if no one could get in, then that would mean the "Undesirable" Dark Skin people Trump & Co don't want won't be able to get out either. Next we will have internment camps.
They are proposing a citizenship question on the Census, which already asks about Nationality, and has a history of being used to round up undesirables. We may need to throw ourselves on the Mercy of Mexico. Speaking of internment camps (Sorry Bill for the slight derail)... Force homeless people into institutions, Republican candidate for California governor saysRepublican gubernatorial candidate Travis Allen says he'd build state-run institutions and force homeless people to live in them against their will, if necessary. "We need state-run mental institutions where people can actually go, (where) the indigent can go and get the help that they need," Allen said at a housing forum last month. "What we're doing is not working." Allen, currently in the state Assembly, is pushing the idea as part of his platform in public debates, interviews and newspaper editorial board meetings. On the campaign trail, he's pinning the blame, in part, on Gavin Newsom and Antonio Villaraigosa, both Democrats and former mayors of San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively. linkJust because someone is homeless does not mean they are mentally ill.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 3, 2018 14:51:12 GMT -5
'Military Guarding Border'
All these 'winning' bad ideas.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Apr 3, 2018 15:03:51 GMT -5
While I don't disagree that we need to come up with something to assist the homeless, we can't just them all in the same bucket, & assume they're in that situation due to mental illness. Of course some are, but you have to remember some have addiction problems, some are veterans who may have PTSD, some don't have family to help, etc. What they did wrong in our state, during the 1990's, was dismantle a bunch of social service programs that had gradual steps to help the poor get out of poverty, & off of government assistance programs. They claimed those programs cost "too much money". So, where are they planning to put all of those "illegal" immigrants? Guantanamo?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 3, 2018 15:05:44 GMT -5
I told my family before the election that I did not want a secure border, b/c if no one could get in, then that would mean the "Undesirable" Dark Skin people Trump & Co don't want won't be able to get out either. Next we will have internment camps.
They are proposing a citizenship question on the Census, which already asks about Nationality, and has a history of being used to round up undesirables. We may need to throw ourselves on the Mercy of Mexico. Speaking of internment camps (Sorry Bill for the slight derail)... Force homeless people into institutions, Republican candidate for California governor saysRepublican gubernatorial candidate Travis Allen says he'd build state-run institutions and force homeless people to live in them against their will, if necessary. "We need state-run mental institutions where people can actually go, (where) the indigent can go and get the help that they need," Allen said at a housing forum last month. "What we're doing is not working." Allen, currently in the state Assembly, is pushing the idea as part of his platform in public debates, interviews and newspaper editorial board meetings. On the campaign trail, he's pinning the blame, in part, on Gavin Newsom and Antonio Villaraigosa, both Democrats and former mayors of San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively. linkJust because someone is homeless does not mean they are mentally ill. Actually they do believe that a large % of homeless people are actually mentally ill. I think the idea is poorly vocalized, but probably has some merit. They would probably also need to change some laws or consider changing laws to force people into treatment. I feel pretty strongly that the mentally ill often don't know they are mentally ill - so the decision that they don't need treatment is not necessarily in their best interest.
There are stories like this: www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/04/03/muslim-woman-sues-hospital-patient-attack/481561002/ That illustrate what happens when Hospitals Release Mentally Ill patients back into the community without treating them. In addition to providing $$ for housing, they would also need to address healthcare $$ too. To make that happen, the D's and R's would have to figure out how to work together without throwing mud at each other.
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Cheesy FL-Vol
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Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Apr 3, 2018 15:28:25 GMT -5
I told my family before the election that I did not want a secure border, b/c if no one could get in, then that would mean the "Undesirable" Dark Skin people Trump & Co don't want won't be able to get out either. Next we will have internment camps.
They are proposing a citizenship question on the Census, which already asks about Nationality, and has a history of being used to round up undesirables. We may need to throw ourselves on the Mercy of Mexico. Just read this article a little while ago. Kind of scary. www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/secret-use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-wwii/ar-AAvpgem
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 3, 2018 15:31:38 GMT -5
Speaking of internment camps (Sorry Bill for the slight derail)... Force homeless people into institutions, Republican candidate for California governor saysRepublican gubernatorial candidate Travis Allen says he'd build state-run institutions and force homeless people to live in them against their will, if necessary. "We need state-run mental institutions where people can actually go, (where) the indigent can go and get the help that they need," Allen said at a housing forum last month. "What we're doing is not working." Allen, currently in the state Assembly, is pushing the idea as part of his platform in public debates, interviews and newspaper editorial board meetings. On the campaign trail, he's pinning the blame, in part, on Gavin Newsom and Antonio Villaraigosa, both Democrats and former mayors of San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively. linkJust because someone is homeless does not mean they are mentally ill. Actually they do believe that a large % of homeless people are actually mentally ill. I think the idea is poorly vocalized, but probably has some merit. They would probably also need to change some laws or consider changing laws to force people into treatment. I feel pretty strongly that the mentally ill often don't know they are mentally ill - so the decision that they don't need treatment is not necessarily in their best interest.
There are stories like this: www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/04/03/muslim-woman-sues-hospital-patient-attack/481561002/ That illustrate what happens when Hospitals Release Mentally Ill patients back into the community without treating them. In addition to providing $$ for housing, they would also need to address healthcare $$ too. To make that happen, the D's and R's would have to figure out how to work together without throwing mud at each other.
It's the forcing (as proposed) I am against.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 3, 2018 16:03:02 GMT -5
"... Until we can have a wall and proper security, we're going to be guarding our border with the military. That's a big step," ... Trump said he is "preparing for the military to secure our border" and he would be attending a meeting on the topic of border security with Mattis and others "in a little while." ... Trump's statement took many Pentagon officials by surprise Tuesday, ...link Yes, Mr. President, that is a very big step. One it would have been good to have had the discussion first before the public announcement. The ramifications of this would be huge for the body politic (which is why this isn't simply a "Current Event") The Commander In Chief can use the military in any way he sees fit to protect the territorial integrity of the United States of America. He doesn't have the right to do it. He has the duty. It's never made any sense to me that millions of Americans are being x-rayed at the airport while 6.2 billion other people on planet earth can saunter in across the southern border- just make it to Mexico. And it's not just hypothetical www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2017/0115/Are-terrorists-crossing-the-US-Mexico-border-Excerpts-from-the-case-file
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2018 16:19:46 GMT -5
... The Commander In Chief can use the military in any way he sees fit to protect the territorial integrity of the United States of America. He doesn't have the right to do it. He has the duty. ... Would make for an interesting court case. EDIT: I would challenge it under Article 1 Section 8 Clause 14 of the US Constitution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2018 18:50:32 GMT -5
No one is stupid enough to check the "yes, I am illegal" box...
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 3, 2018 20:08:02 GMT -5
Maybe when the soldiers are down there, they can spend their off time constructing the wall for him.
They should make it out of paper mache. They can hustle him down to review it prior to the first hard rain, take some pictures of him standing proudly in front of it, and then send it back to Mar A Lago before it falls apart.
Win! I just had an idea. Why not use additive manufacturing and print the bloody wall. Aside from creating the drawings this would not need a highly educated workforce. We could employ all the displaced labor from manufacturing that hasn't been able to find good well-paying jobs for this. Win-win
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 3, 2018 22:15:32 GMT -5
Why is it that none of you want border security?
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Apr 3, 2018 23:03:52 GMT -5
Why is it that none of you want border security? we want border security. but not using our military. the border is not a war zone, despite what trump says.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 3, 2018 23:04:37 GMT -5
Why is it that none of you want border security? I would not have a problem with increasing the budget for more U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Apr 4, 2018 0:47:32 GMT -5
I told my family before the election that I did not want a secure border, b/c if no one could get in, then that would mean the "Undesirable" Dark Skin people Trump & Co don't want won't be able to get out either. Next we will have internment camps.
They are proposing a citizenship question on the Census, which already asks about Nationality, and has a history of being used to round up undesirables. We may need to throw ourselves on the Mercy of Mexico. Speaking of internment camps (Sorry Bill for the slight derail)... Force homeless people into institutions, Republican candidate for California governor saysRepublican gubernatorial candidate Travis Allen says he'd build state-run institutions and force homeless people to live in them against their will, if necessary. "We need state-run mental institutions where people can actually go, (where) the indigent can go and get the help that they need," Allen said at a housing forum last month. "What we're doing is not working." Allen, currently in the state Assembly, is pushing the idea as part of his platform in public debates, interviews and newspaper editorial board meetings. On the campaign trail, he's pinning the blame, in part, on Gavin Newsom and Antonio Villaraigosa, both Democrats and former mayors of San Francisco and Los Angeles, respectively. linkJust because someone is homeless does not mean they are mentally ill. in other words gather up those it's felt needed to be gathered up and concentrate them in one area...something like a big camp ground.... hmmmmm...actually a concentrated group in a camp type setting....ahhhhh yes....oh I got it...a concentration....a camp.....a concentration camp.....yep think it's been thought of before and done too.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Apr 4, 2018 0:54:29 GMT -5
I am thinking that our Donald, who is known to have limited knowledge of how our government is operated and even more so...the laws that we live by and are governed by...really hasn't a clue as to how limited he is in using our regular military forces on US soil.....and since it is reported that it seems to set him off when told he can't do something...kind of how Herr Adolph was reported to also have his tantrums, same reason.....his advisors just might not have felt the need to so inform him as to these limitations.. ========================================= "The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878 by President Rutherford B. Hayes. The purpose of the act – in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807 – is to limit the powers of the federal government in using federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. " ------------------------------------------------------ He can use the National Guard...federalize them...then have to get the $ to pay them....once federalized Fed Gov't responsible for the finances, not the States...think Congress still responsible for finances...and after a period of time, 90 days I think, have to be asked for the $ ----------------------------- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 4, 2018 6:26:18 GMT -5
No one is stupid enough to check the "yes, I am illegal" box... How about I am a citizen of African American or Hispanic Origin?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 4, 2018 6:28:20 GMT -5
It only makes sense to guard a country's border with the military.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 4, 2018 6:56:17 GMT -5
It only makes sense to guard a country's border with the military. Yes for countries that don't already have a border patrol.
Which we have.
This is just a cheap effort on Trump's part to pander to his voters and to make Anne Coulter happy. Apparently, it's successful.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 4, 2018 7:00:54 GMT -5
It only makes sense to guard a country's border with the military. Yes for countries that don't already have a border patrol.
Which we have.
This is just a cheap effort on Trump's part to pander to his voters and to make Anne Coulter happy. Apparently, it's successful.
We have ineffective border patrol and a Congress who is not willing to fund better border patrol or the wall. They are breaking the law. I support this.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 4, 2018 7:02:46 GMT -5
Actually they do believe that a large % of homeless people are actually mentally ill. I think the idea is poorly vocalized, but probably has some merit. They would probably also need to change some laws or consider changing laws to force people into treatment. I feel pretty strongly that the mentally ill often don't know they are mentally ill - so the decision that they don't need treatment is not necessarily in their best interest.
There are stories like this: www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/04/03/muslim-woman-sues-hospital-patient-attack/481561002/ That illustrate what happens when Hospitals Release Mentally Ill patients back into the community without treating them. In addition to providing $$ for housing, they would also need to address healthcare $$ too. To make that happen, the D's and R's would have to figure out how to work together without throwing mud at each other.
It's the forcing (as proposed) I am against. I also have mixed feelings on this. Often mentally ill people refuse to take their meds and don't understand there is something wrong with their thinking. I read an article several years back about a delusional woman who would get picked up and held for 72 hours, and then, after 72 hours on her meds she would see fine, and they would let her back on the streets. The last time that happened, she walked out of town to a summer cottage that was unoccupied (it was winter) and broke in. She lived there a couple weeks, eating apples that had fallen off the tree in the back yard. She found some paper and wrote a journal in which she talked about the house being her house, and how she was waiting on her husband to get back from the grocery store. (He'd died long before.) She starved to death, the home owners found her in the spring, along with her journal.
We have to have places for those kinds of people to go and get treatment, and it might need to be involuntary if they are incompetent. I would rather know those kinds of people are in a suitable group home, getting the food and care they need, than living under a bridge, prey to more dangerous individuals and the elements. In the long run, if you take into account the homeless people with pneumonia who end up in emergency rooms requiring long term hospitalization, it would pay for itself, I think.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 4, 2018 7:06:56 GMT -5
"... Until we can have a wall and proper security, we're going to be guarding our border with the military. That's a big step," ... Trump said he is "preparing for the military to secure our border" and he would be attending a meeting on the topic of border security with Mattis and others "in a little while." ... Trump's statement took many Pentagon officials by surprise Tuesday, ...link Yes, Mr. President, that is a very big step. One it would have been good to have had the discussion first before the public announcement. The ramifications of this would be huge for the body politic (which is why this isn't simply a "Current Event") The Commander In Chief can use the military in any way he sees fit to protect the territorial integrity of the United States of America. He doesn't have the right to do it. He has the duty. It's never made any sense to me that millions of Americans are being x-rayed at the airport while 6.2 billion other people on planet earth can saunter in across the southern border- just make it to Mexico. And it's not just hypothetical www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2017/0115/Are-terrorists-crossing-the-US-Mexico-border-Excerpts-from-the-case-fileBoats. Airplanes.
The Maginot line.
We need good border security, but wasting a shit ton of money on a medieval fortification is laughable.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Apr 4, 2018 7:36:41 GMT -5
Boats. Airplanes.
The Maginot line.
We need good border security, but wasting a shit ton of money on a medieval fortification is laughable.
What we are doing now is working? Need a ton of cocaine, no problem! Need a million illegal workers, no problem!
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