Parkland, FL school shooting

[tallguy]

Feb 21, 2018 8:42:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 20, 2018 17:01:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them.  I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them.

You've been converted?

Since when is "nobody needs them" a good enough reason to ban something? By this logic, we should ban selfie sticks, pop, trampolines, vodka coolers, tasty-looking detergent pods, and hot tubs. Any one of them claims as many or more lives as AR-15s in a given year.

Where did your principles go?

Dude, you seriously need to rethink hot tubs! 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Hot tubs are bad. You can get drunk, get VD and drown. The difference is, you only kill yourself - not a bunch of other people.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm fine with making Tide pods not look so tasty.

I will say I find it mind boggling that our representatives feel that it is a good use of our government to regulate the appearance of tide pods but apparently all they can do when there is a mass shooting is offer "thoughts and prayers".

[tallguy]

Feb 21, 2018 12:54:22 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Hot tubs are bad. You can get drunk, get VD and drown. The difference is, you only kill yourself - not a bunch of other people.

Well, I don't really drink (so won't be drunk) and I have my own so don't need to worry about VD.  Think I'm good.   

[Green Eyed Lady]

Hot tub away then, but don't say you weren't warned.

[swamp]

Feb 21, 2018 13:15:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Feb 21, 2018 12:54:22 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Hot tubs are bad. You can get drunk, get VD and drown. The difference is, you only kill yourself - not a bunch of other people.

Well, I don't really drink (so won't be drunk) and I have my own so don't need to worry about VD.  Think I'm good.   

You have your own VD?  LOL! 

[Tennesseer]

Feb 21, 2018 8:42:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 20, 2018 17:01:24 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them.  I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them.

You've been converted?

Since when is "nobody needs them" a good enough reason to ban something? By this logic, we should ban selfie sticks, pop, trampolines, vodka coolers, tasty-looking detergent pods, and hot tubs. Any one of them claims as many or more lives as AR-15s in a given year.

Where did your principles go?

The USA and Canada did ban the sale of jarts, aka lawn darts. Far, far fewer deaths than from firearms.

Lawn darts

[tbop77]

Meanwhile:

www.news4jax.com/news/florida-house-refuses-debate-guns-declares-porn-dangerous

PORN KILLS!!!!

[tallguy]

Feb 21, 2018 13:37:39 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 21, 2018 13:15:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Well, I don't really drink (so won't be drunk) and I have my own so don't need to worry about VD.  Think I'm good.   

You have your own VD?  LOL! 

No.  Have my own hot tub.  If I had my own VD I'm guessing it would be at least a bit worrying....    

[swamp]

Itchy, worrying, tomato, tomahto. 

[tallguy]

I'll take your word for it.  You seem to know....   

[OldCoyote]

www.yahoo.com/gma/fla-school-officer-waited-outside-building-4-minutes-232627967--abc-news-topstories.html

Unbelievable,,

[OldCoyote]

www.yahoo.com/entertainment/florida-shooting-survivor-says-cnn-gave-him-scripted-134229171.html

Fake news central!,, check out the comments.

[Tennesseer]

Other message boards and news sites aren't give too much credence to Colton Haab claim.  Writers state anyone wearing a camo shirt really wouldn't want to talk about gun control. 

[OldCoyote]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/douglas-school-cop-never-went-in-during-the-shooting-there-were-other-failures-too/ar-BBJtrNW?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Lot's of other screwups,, but it is the guns fault.

[retread]

Feb 21, 2018 11:08:57 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I know the slippery slope is real. I'm just saying I can't protest it out of one side of my mouth it promote it out of the other.  I'm hoping that it goes the other way.  I'm hoping if a ban is instated, and the problem doesn't go away, that Americans will be swayed into looking to the obvious problem areas instead of biting at this issue like a baby on a teething ring.

1.  Disagree.  Their popularity is like....what do you call it when a man has to have something big?

2. Don't agree.  Well...at least not entirely.  I agree that it was PROBABLY the primary intent but don't agree that it limits a citizen's right to bear arms to only for protection from the government. 

I'm about as far from being any sort of liberal as one can get....paleo or otherwise.  Sorry to disappoint you.  I absolutely do not agree that liberty trumps security in all cases. 

You could call that chubby chasing.  But that's probably not what you meant. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 22, 2018 22:29:23 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

www.yahoo.com/gma/fla-school-officer-waited-outside-building-4-minutes-232627967--abc-news-topstories.html

Unbelievable,,

Yeah. I read this yesterday evening.

The fellow retired immediately after. He'll get his pension, but also be branded a coward for the rest of his life.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 23, 2018 7:28:25 GMT -5 oped said:

Our laws allow you to be a fucking dumb ass to yourself. 

AR 15s are made to shred OTHER human beings. It’s a weapon of outward destruction meant to take the lives of others.

Even self-inflicted harm propagates out into society. The working man who dies in a hot tub possibly leaves behind a stressed mate, fatherless children, an employer missing an employee, creditors without a debtor, and other unfulfilled commitments. If the man's family can't make ends meet in his absence, the burden to care for them falls on the taxpayer and society as a whole.

But rather than appeal to the outward effects of self-harm, I'll point out that alcohol, addictive drugs (including recreational drugs), broadcasting of false material, mass political assemblies, and other risky activities with third party costs many orders of magnitude greater than assault weapons are all perfectly legal.

Just as assault weapons aren't exceptional in having no utility beyond the enjoyment they bring, they aren't exceptional in their capacity to cause direct harm to third parties.

[tbop77]

My daughter is a teacher. I told her the other night she needed to buy a gun, put in her purse and not tell a soul. I wouldn't be left like a sitting duck while the whole country goes crazy.

The FL school shooting should prove to anyone that arming teachers is the only solution. Mental health and gun laws are not going to happen.

Maybe colleges can add this to the courses teachers need to take?

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2018 9:35:08 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

My daughter is a teacher. I told her the other night she needed to buy a gun, put in her purse and not tell a soul. ...

Where is her purse as she goes through her work day?

[tbop77]

Feb 23, 2018 9:45:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:35:08 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

My daughter is a teacher. I told her the other night she needed to buy a gun, put in her purse and not tell a soul. ...

Where is her purse as she goes through her work day?

Her purse is in her desk in her classroom. 

I know you don't agree and I hate the thought of it too, but there are no other solutions.  NONE!

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2018 9:51:06 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:45:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Where is her purse as she goes through her work day?

Her purse is in her desk in her classroom. 

I know you don't agree and I hate the thought of it too, but there are no other solutions.  NONE!

And how often is she away from her desk during her work day, either elsewhere in her classroom or the building?

[tbop77]

Feb 23, 2018 9:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:51:06 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Her purse is in her desk in her classroom. 

I know you don't agree and I hate the thought of it too, but there are no other solutions.  NONE!

And how often is she away from her desk during her work day, either elsewhere in her classroom or the building?

The 99% of the time she is protected against a shooter negates the 1% of the time she might be elsewhere. 

[Opti]

Feb 23, 2018 9:51:06 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:45:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Where is her purse as she goes through her work day?

Her purse is in her desk in her classroom. 

I know you don't agree and I hate the thought of it too, but there are no other solutions.  NONE!

If she agrees with you, she should take more than standard gun training. She should look into something that will mimic active shooter scenarios. And she should look into the applicable laws and penalties. What happens if she pulls the gun out to use, but the shooter never enters her classroom? The kids will tell someone. What happens if she accidently shoots a non shooter student?

She also becomes at risk once students know she has a gun. There are more of them in the classroom than her.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 23, 2018 10:24:51 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And how often is she away from her desk during her work day, either elsewhere in her classroom or the building?

The 99% of the time she is protected against a shooter negates the 1% of the time she might be elsewhere. 

I think Billis is appealing to the 0.0001% chance she'll need the weapon during a 10-minute assault on the school versus the 99.9% chance her desk/purse will be unattended for 10+ minutes in any given year, making her weapon a ripe opportunity for thieves.

[Opti]

Feb 23, 2018 10:24:51 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And how often is she away from her desk during her work day, either elsewhere in her classroom or the building?

The 99% of the time she is protected against a shooter negates the 1% of the time she might be elsewhere. 

The gun is a tool that might help her against a shooter, but she needs to be lucky and a good shot. Is she calm in a crisis? Have you or her thought about scenarios for gun fights in the classroom? Like what to do if the shooter shoots through the door but does not come in? If the shooter comes in the classroom before she gets to her gun?

Where she should be if she hears there is an active shooter in the building? The gun gives her possibilities. It will not guarantee her safety but she can prepare to make it more likely.

[Tennesseer]

It is also possible if it is known adults in a school may be armed, a determined shooter will go for the adults first which leaves the unarmed students at the mercy of the shooter.

[tbop77]

Look, I get all of what you are saying, but I've come to the conclusion that in the US, you have to look out for yourself. Or you can be a sitting duck.

I'm proud of the kids for protesting....nothing is going to change. Nothing!

 People that have mental health issues more than likely have no insurance for treatment, anything going to change? Nope!

The left is going to slant coverage one way, the right are saying how happy the left is when mass shootings happen. 

I'm sorry, you just get to the point that you realize you are responsible for your own safety. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 23, 2018 11:07:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 23, 2018 10:24:51 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

The 99% of the time she is protected against a shooter negates the 1% of the time she might be elsewhere. 

The gun is a tool that might help her against a shooter, but she needs to be lucky and a good shot. Is she calm in a crisis? Have you or her thought about scenarios for gun fights in the classroom? Like what to do if the shooter shoots through the door but does not come in? If the shooter comes in the classroom before she gets to her gun?

Where she should be if she hears there is an active shooter in the building? The gun gives her possibilities. It will not guarantee her safety but she can prepare to make it more likely.

I wouldn't keep a weapon in my workplace under any circumstances, but if I did, and I found myself in an "active shooter" situation, my policy would be:

1. Get everyone away from the door (preferably behind cover and beyond the line of sight of anyone standing beyond the door).
   
   
2. Set up behind cover, at an oblique angle to the door, keeping the pistol trained at center-of-mass height on the door.
   
   
3. Open fire on anyone armed and not in uniform who opens the door and walks into the room. Empty my clip into him.
   

Is this a foolproof strategy? Of course not.

It wouldn't guarantee my safety. It wouldn't guarantee I didn't shoot another "good guy with a gun" or an innocent bystander. I might still be mistaken for a malefactor by authorities. It wouldn't be possible in many situations (due to lack of time, lack of a defensible position, inability to access my gun, etc.). But in the baseline "trapped in a classroom" scenario, it would at least afford a reasonable chance of preventing Joe von Psycho from systematically murdering me and anyone else taking refuge in the room.

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2018 10:24:51 GMT -5 tbop77 said:

Feb 23, 2018 9:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And how often is she away from her desk during her work day, either elsewhere in her classroom or the building?

The 99% of the time she is protected against a shooter negates the 1% of the time she might be elsewhere. 

Got it. Your basing this on the problem that this is a solution to is her risk of being shot. I would question the 99/1% but you would know her personal teaching style better than I. I know that there are some teachers who do remain at their desk 99% of their time. It is a great psychological protector from the kids.