Parkland, FL school shooting

[tbop77]

Feb 23, 2018 11:41:39 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 23, 2018 11:07:12 GMT -5 Opti said:

The gun is a tool that might help her against a shooter, but she needs to be lucky and a good shot. Is she calm in a crisis? Have you or her thought about scenarios for gun fights in the classroom? Like what to do if the shooter shoots through the door but does not come in? If the shooter comes in the classroom before she gets to her gun?

Where she should be if she hears there is an active shooter in the building? The gun gives her possibilities. It will not guarantee her safety but she can prepare to make it more likely.

I wouldn't keep a weapon in my workplace under any circumstances, but if I did, and I found myself in an "active shooter" situation, my policy would be:

1. Get everyone away from the door (preferably behind cover and beyond the line of sight of anyone standing beyond the door).
   
   
2. Set up behind cover, at an oblique angle to the door, keeping the pistol trained at center-of-mass height on the door.
   
   
3. Open fire on anyone armed and not in uniform who opens the door and walks into the room. Empty my clip into him.
   

Is this a foolproof strategy? Of course not.

It wouldn't guarantee my safety. It wouldn't guarantee I didn't shoot another "good guy with a gun" or an innocent bystander. I might still be mistaken for a malefactor by authorities. It wouldn't be possible in many situations (due to lack of time, lack of a defensible position, inability to access my gun, etc.). But in the baseline "trapped in a classroom" scenario, it would at least afford a reasonable chance of preventing Joe von Psycho from systematically murdering me and anyone else taking refuge in the room.

Thank you!  I would probably be the last person one would think of when the stance on arming teachers comes up.  Just so you know, she teaches in FL, so I did have that rush of panic when I heard about the shooting.  Watching and listening to the news over the last week, I've just come to the conclusion, there is no other solution.  There's not enough money to provide security to all the schools in the nation. 

Plus, I live in KY where two school shooting have taken place, both in the area that I live in. 

[Tennesseer]

[OldCoyote]

Feb 23, 2018 8:42:18 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 22, 2018 22:29:23 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

www.yahoo.com/gma/fla-school-officer-waited-outside-building-4-minutes-232627967--abc-news-topstories.html

Unbelievable,,

Yeah. I read this yesterday evening.

The fellow retired immediately after. He'll get his pension, but also be branded a coward for the rest of his life.

Apparently he was not the only deputy that did not enter the building, looks like there were four more!!

[thyme4change]

A kid just got kicked out of my son's school for threatening to bring a gun to school.

[OldCoyote]

This is a tough choice, a armed teacher or no armed teacher with some one running up and down the hall with a AR15,,

Maybe we could all throw books at the shooter,, Yea ,, that would scare him!!

Having an armed teacher is much better than a armed deputy hiding behind something outside when the shooting is going on inside!!

[weltschmerz]

We had a teacher go berserk and shoot 4 people in '92.

[OldCoyote]

Here is the part that always amazes me,, Now  that we see the number of thing that were not taken care of.

The different time this student was reported , nothing done.

The thing that were reported to the police, nothing done.

The report to the FBI,  nothing done..

Where is the criticism, where call out the mistake that were made,,,

I mean, a lot of people died here because several people failed to do their jobs!!
 

[billisonboard]

Feb 23, 2018 19:10:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

This is a tough choice, a armed teacher or no armed teacher with some one running up and down the hall with a AR15,,

Maybe we could all throw books at the shooter,, Yea ,, that would scare him!!

Having an armed teacher is much better than a armed deputy hiding behind something outside when the shooting is going on inside!!

It is not that one school one incident that is the concern to me. It is the approximately 100,000 schools, 180 school days a year that concerns me.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 23, 2018 19:18:13 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Here is the part that always amazes me,, Now  that we see the number of thing that were not taken care of.

The different time this student was reported , nothing done.

The thing that were reported to the police, nothing done.

The report to the FBI,  nothing done..

Where is the criticism, where call out the mistake that were made,,,

I mean, a lot of people died here because several people failed to do their jobs!!
 

Are you of the opinion authorities are not looking into or adressing the problems you listed above?

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 23, 2018 18:23:52 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I'll bet you he'd spit it out.

[OldCoyote]

Feb 23, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 23, 2018 19:18:13 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Here is the part that always amazes me,, Now  that we see the number of thing that were not taken care of.

The different time this student was reported , nothing done.

The thing that were reported to the police, nothing done.

The report to the FBI,  nothing done..

Where is the criticism, where call out the mistake that were made,,,

I mean, a lot of people died here because several people failed to do their jobs!!
 

Are you of the opinion authorities are not looking into or adressing the problems you listed above?

They are looking at how they can get thru without looking bad, stall it off until it goes away,  The deputy that retired should have been instantly fired, with no chance of retirement.
What a fucking coward!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 23, 2018 21:01:06 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Feb 23, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Are you of the opinion authorities are not looking into or adressing the problems you listed above?

They are looking at how they can get thru without looking bad, stall it off until it goes away,  The deputy that retired should have been instantly fired, with no change of retirement.
What a fucking coward!

I don't think any involved, past or present, could look any worse than they already do.

[tbop77]

Feb 23, 2018 19:33:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Feb 23, 2018 19:18:13 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Here is the part that always amazes me,, Now  that we see the number of thing that were not taken care of.

The different time this student was reported , nothing done.

The thing that were reported to the police, nothing done.

The report to the FBI,  nothing done..

Where is the criticism, where call out the mistake that were made,,,

I mean, a lot of people died here because several people failed to do their jobs!!
 

Are you of the opinion authorities are not looking into or adressing the problems you listed above?

Oh, I'm sure countless resources will be spent investigating the problems.  The US cannot do anything these days without investigating. Nothing will be solved, no solutions will be presented.  We'll move on and wait till the next one.   

[OldCoyote]

Feb 20, 2018 15:52:26 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It appears some need somebody to blame besides the perp and his bloody gun. 

www.yahoo.com/news/woman-told-fbi-florida-shooting-suspect-going-explode-221010725--politics.html

[thyme4change]

I wonder what that security guard was told. Running into an active shooter situation with a handgun and no body armor would likely not help anyone. I know my husband was told the SWAT team will shoot anyone holding a gun. I don't know what the security guards in his building were told to do in such a scenario.

[Tennesseer]

Parkland shooting reveals Trump's deepest flaws

(CNN)  "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."

When then-candidate Donald Trump raised his hand to imitate firing a pistol, he couldn't have known that a mass shooting at a Parkland, Florida, high school would turn his bravado into shame. Today his bragging performance -- something no thinking candidate would ever say and do -- is a haunting reminder of his failure as a politician, a president and a human being.

At other moments he stressed that he was so rich that he couldn't be bought by campaign donors, which meant that only he could act on the nation's behalf without yielding to special interest pressure.

Now, in the days after Parkland, when a response -- independent of special interest pressure -- is greatly needed, the President cannot deliver. Were he really the man he promised to be during the campaign, he would have been free to advocate any policy. However, during the campaign, he benefited from help by the NRA to the tune of $31 million — nearly $11.5 million to support Trump and almost $20 million against Hillary Clinton -- and voters who listen to the organization supported him. Thus, when he sat down with grieving survivors of Parkland and other shootings, he was burdened like any other politician who tries to make common cause with ties to a special interest group. With dry eyes, and little apparent emotion, Trump offered the idea of adding more guns to schools, by arming teachers.
...
The empathy Trump's note card stressed that he practice has come naturally to most presidents. In similar times of crisis, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and others have instinctively shared in the grief of victims and been moved to act. The fact that Trump needed a written reminder to show sensitivity, curiosity, kindness, compassion, courage and conviction is a pathetic and ultimately unsettling sign that even after a year he can't quite do his job.

Complete article here: Parkland shooting reveals Trump's deepest flaws

[OldCoyote]

Feb 24, 2018 10:35:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I wonder what that security guard was told. Running into an active shooter situation with a handgun and no body armor would likely not help anyone. I know my husband was told the SWAT team will shoot anyone holding a gun. I don't know what the security guards in his building were told to do in such a scenario.

Where do you get the fact the deputy did not have body armor?

[chiver78]

Feb 24, 2018 19:28:44 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Feb 24, 2018 10:35:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I wonder what that security guard was told. Running into an active shooter situation with a handgun and no body armor would likely not help anyone. I know my husband was told the SWAT team will shoot anyone holding a gun. I don't know what the security guards in his building were told to do in such a scenario.

Where do you get the fact the deputy did not have body armor?

where are you getting that the school security guard was a deputy? 

[OldCoyote]

Feb 24, 2018 19:40:47 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Feb 24, 2018 19:28:44 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Where do you get the fact the deputy did not have body armor?

where are you getting that the school security guard was a deputy? 

www.wptv.com/news/state/school-resource-officer-never-confronted-parkland-gunman-sheriff-says

[OldCoyote]

His base salary was like $75,000 a year!

[chiver78]

is a "school resource deputy" the same as a sheriff's deputy? that's how I read your post. if you meant the former, my bad. if you meant the latter, please answer my question. 

where I live, the school resource officers are not considered LEO. 

[OldCoyote]

From everything that I have read he was a Sheriff deputy, that is why the Sheriff put him on unpaid leave, he chose to retire.

[chiver78]

cheers, thanks. I seem to have missed that detail. 

[NastyWoman]

So instead of bringing ever more guns on, how about looking into solutions like this, or is more violence always the preferred answer?

whdh.com/news/wisconsin-teen-invents-school-door-locking-device/

[irishpad]

Feb 24, 2018 19:48:48 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

is a "school resource deputy" the same as a sheriff's deputy? that's how I read your post. if you meant the former, my bad. if you meant the latter, please answer my question. 

where I live, the school resource officers are not considered LEO. 

Around here the school resource officers are full-time LEO.   In towns with a police department, they are on the city force, otherwise they are from the sheriff's office.    I don't know  if they wear protective vests on a regular basis when they are in the schools.    

[milee]

Feb 24, 2018 19:48:48 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

is a "school resource deputy" the same as a sheriff's deputy? that's how I read your post. if you meant the former, my bad. if you meant the latter, please answer my question. 

where I live, the school resource officers are not considered LEO. 

We're not in the same jurisdiction as West Palm Beach, but in our Florida county the School Resource Officers are absolutely current, active sheriff's deputies.  They wear the exact same gear as the other deputies, including a gun and bulletproof vest.  They have the ability to serve the exact same duties as all other deputies, from arresting people to issuing traffic citations.  Yes, they're deputies in every aspect.  They just happen to serve that role on a school campus.  From the reports I'm reading about WPB, it has the same arrangement.

[thyme4change]

Our police don't routinely walk around in bullet proof vests. Maybe I don't see the ones in more dangerous districts?

The "armed guards" at the courthouse don't wear bulletproof vests either, and only have a small handgun with them.

[OldCoyote]

Feb 25, 2018 16:33:56 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Our police don't routinely walk around in bullet proof vests. Maybe I don't see the ones in more dangerous districts?

The "armed guards" at the courthouse don't wear bulletproof vests either, and only have a small handgun with them.

In Phoenix?? Every police officer I see is wearing a bullet resistant vest!

[thyme4change]

Maybe I don't know what a bullet proof vest looks like. I have seen some, but I always notice them and notice who isn't wearing them too.

[Green Eyed Lady]

You might not notice them. Technology has improved somewhat since the first vests came out. Most are worn underneath their uniform shirts now. They aren't as bulky as the old ones and you probably wouldn't even notice them.  At least that's how it is around here. The tactical teams - you may notice vests on them because they are usually on the outside of their clothing but most law enforcement officers wear them under their uniform shirts.