Parkland, FL school shooting

[chiver78]

So, is it still too soon to talk about this? 

Sun Sentinel coverage

Several people were shot to death and others wounded Wednesday at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in a horrific episode of school violence that ended with the arrest of a former student.

Panicked parents streamed to this school in an affluent part of Broward County, as news helicopters broadcast the incident live and students congregated on streets, many crying, hugging and calling friends and family on their phones.

“Oh, my God,” a man could be heard yelling, in a grainy Snapchat video from the school, as the pop-pop, pop-pop of four gunshots range out and students screamed.

Broward County Commissioner Dale Holness said five people were confirmed dead.

Fourteen victims were taken to area hospitals, according to the Broward Sheriff’s Office. The agency did not say how many were fatalities.

*********click the link for the full coverage*****************

[dee27]

The news reported that 16 people are dead.  It is such a senseless tragedy.

[weltschmerz]

Thought and prayers. 

Nothing more needs to be done.

[Tennesseer]

The price we pay for the rights of the Second Amendment.

[steff]

17 dead

[chiver78]

Feb 14, 2018 18:22:14 GMT -5 dee27 said:

The news reported that 16 people are dead.  It is such a senseless tragedy.

my link appears to be from earlier in the day. I was trying to avoid the NBC/FOX/CNN links for obvious reasons.

[dezii]

Feb 14, 2018 18:22:14 GMT -5 dee27 said:

The news reported that 16 people are dead.  It is such a senseless tragedy.

17 dead now...three still critical...being operated on

[dezii]

Feb 14, 2018 18:26:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The price we pay for the rights of the Second Amendment.

CNN has on their staff of experts a former FBI man...had used a weapon similar to one that seems to be a popular one in these incidents..20 " barrel...so accurate over hand gun, magazine 30 rounds...fires with each pull of trigger...basically a assault weapon similar to ones issues to our troops and sees no reason for civilians to have such weapons.

I believe the reason so many are reluctant to make such weapons illegal in the States is they look on the second amendment differently then I do...They feel...and this is MY belief ...the second amendment is primarily for citizens to have the ability to protect themselves against a government they believe that might need to be over thrown...not for personal  protection..thus the need of military type weapons  with military type magazines...many rounds per magazine. 

For those who hunt, these weapons are really looked down on...better, more accurate weapon, long rifles, less rounds...For personal protection...hand weapons, limited rounds or from my own standpoint for home protection...a shot gun...possible along the lines of a trench shot gun...short barrel but devastating at close range for personal protection...but not something I would consider if I was crazy enough to think I would want in a insurrection against my government.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Feb 14, 2018 18:26:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The price we pay for the rights of the Second Amendment.

The price we pay for misunderstanding the Second Amendment and having a love of guns and a paranoid NRA with lots of money to bribe officials. We are the only country with this problem. 18 school shootings so far this year. I don't need an AR-15 and multiple clips to hunt or protect myself.

[grumpyhermit]

Mass shootings have ceased to have an impact on me. Their frequency, combined with our national disinterest in doing anything, leaves me ambivalent. Nothing is going to change, so I see no value in getting all upset about it every time it happens. 

It's kinda of how I feel about Trump's inane tweets. They are going to happen. I can't change it. No point in getting upset over it. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 14, 2018 18:17:02 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

So, is it still too soon to talk about this?

If you're alluding to it being "too soon" for another appeal for gun control, the opposition's concern is with what you say and how often, not how soon relative to a tragedy.

It's also worth pointing out that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far in 2018. Most didn't warrant national attention since they happened in cities where school shootings are commonplace.

[chiver78]

Feb 14, 2018 20:49:25 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 14, 2018 18:17:02 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

So, is it still too soon to talk about this?

If you're alluding to it being "too soon" for another appeal for gun control, the opposition's concern is with what you say and how often, not how soon relative to a tragedy.

It's also worth pointing out that this is the 18th school shooting in the US so far in 2018. Most didn't warrant national attention since they happened in cities where school shootings are commonplace.

I'm actually being deliberately snarky, since most of the politicians being funded by the NRA tend to say something along the lines of "now is not the time to politicize this tragedy, we should be supporting the families of the victims" as they continue to line their pockets with blood money. 

[Tennesseer]

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

[billisonboard]

MERICA

[dezii]

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

Great Britain, Ireland, Scotland, Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Monaco, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, the Baltic States, Israel, Turkey, Australia, New Zealand.....do I have to go on...

All have some kind of gun controls...some, a few,  even allow their citizens to take home their military firearms...and these are Western looking countries...supposedly similar to ours, not third world nations...

We demand those who drive to pass a test and get a license...even have insurance...yet when it comes to fire arms few if any controls and all this power to one private association with fewer then five million members out of 320 million population controls the majority...and our politicians listen to them...it's said there are how many million fire arms in private hands..150 million ...300 million...

Just think , today in Broward County  , Florida... there are 17 kids and teachers who will not be coming home tonight or  ever, and 14 who are in Hospital ...hopefully able soon to go home but some to face long months, possible years of rehab ..possible never ever to be whole again...

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

School shootings are a drop in the proverbial bucket of violence that happens every year in the US. These highly publicized mass shootings make up only a small fraction of that drop.

Federal gun control affects the lives of tens of millions of Americans. School shootings theoretically preventable by gun control affect a few dozen victims each year and their families. There's six orders of magnitude difference to consider.

Either way you look at it, events like this shooting aren't significant enough to justify policy changes, which is why America will never accept them as justification for policy changes. If you want to reduce the number of shootings, it will have to be through instilling a love of pacifism and abhorrence of violence in your countrymen, not gun prohibitions. Think of prohibitions like "The War on Drugs".

ETA: If you can't wrap your mind around the above, follow grumpyhermit's lead and don't let events like this perturb you. Thousands of Americans die horribly every day in the US from preventable accidents, abuse by their fellow man, and abuse of their own freedoms. It's good to be mindful of it, but we have to keep it at arm's length, lest it overwhelm us.

[Tiny]

Feb 14, 2018 20:36:02 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Feb 14, 2018 18:26:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The price we pay for the rights of the Second Amendment.

The price we pay for misunderstanding the Second Amendment and having a love of guns and a paranoid NRA with lots of money to bribe officials. We are the only country with this problem. 18 school shootings so far this year. I don't need an AR-15 and multiple clips to hunt or protect myself.

 

I hear there are more stores selling guns than there are Starbucks in the US...  

www.businessinsider.com/gun-dealers-laws-us-states-starbucks-2017-10  

[Tiny]

Feb 14, 2018 20:42:23 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Mass shootings have ceased to have an impact on me. Their frequency, combined with our national disinterest in doing anything, leaves me ambivalent. Nothing is going to change, so I see no value in getting all upset about it every time it happens. 

It's kinda of how I feel about Trump's inane tweets. They are going to happen. I can't change it. No point in getting upset over it. 

Yeah, I'm pretty ambivalent about it too these days.   As long as no one I know has been shot/killed... I don't really care.        Maybe we can blame the victims?  Maybe if some of them had been armed there would be fewer dead?  Maybe if the shooters parents had just spanked their kid when they were little they would have turned out to be a better human being?  

::please I don't believe one word of what I've written ::  

[NastyWoman]

But congress is currently trying to undermine even the few feeble gun control laws that some states have put in place: they are trying to pass a law that if you have an concealed carry license in one state you have it all over the country "similar to a drivers license. So you can continue to protect your family even if you leave your own state".

www.newsweek.com/gun-bill-would-mean-states-cant-stop-people-carrying-firearms-679216

" An NRA-backed bill working its way through Congress could drastically decrease the power states have to determine who can carry guns in their borders—leaving states with strict gun laws open to carriers without gun training.

The NRA, a gun-rights lobbying organization, is pressuring Congress to approve national reciprocity for state-level gun rights—a move that would allow people who legally own a gun in their home state to carry that gun in every U.S. state. That means a resident of a state with permitless carry, would be legally able to enter California, among the strictest gun states, with that weapon. ..."

[NastyWoman]

Feb 14, 2018 21:27:04 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

School shootings are a drop in the proverbial bucket of violence that happens every year in the US. These highly publicized mass shootings make up only a small fraction of that drop.

Federal gun control affects the lives of tens of millions of Americans. School shootings theoretically preventable by gun control affect a few dozen victims each year and their families. There's six orders of magnitude difference to consider.

Either way you look at it, events like this shooting aren't significant enough to justify policy changes, which is why America will never accept them as justification for policy changes. If you want to reduce the number of shootings, it will have to be through instilling a love of pacifism and abhorrence of violence in your countrymen, not gun prohibitions. Think of prohibitions like "The War on Drugs".

I sincerely doubt that would be your reaction if that "drop" were your child!!!

[Tennesseer]

Feb 14, 2018 21:27:04 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

School shootings are a drop in the proverbial bucket of violence that happens every year in the US. These highly publicized mass shootings make up only a small fraction of that drop.

Federal gun control affects the lives of tens of millions of Americans. School shootings theoretically preventable by gun control affect a few dozen victims each year and their families. There's six orders of magnitude difference to consider.

Either way you look at it, events like this shooting aren't significant enough to justify policy changes, which is why America will never accept them as justification for policy changes. If you want to reduce the number of shootings, it will have to be through instilling a love of pacifism and abhorrence of violence in your countrymen, not gun prohibitions. Think of prohibitions like "The War on Drugs".

ETA: If you can't wrap your mind around the above, follow grumpyhermit 's lead and don't let events like this perturb you. Thousands of Americans die horribly every day in the US from preventable accidents, abuse by their fellow man, and abuse of their own freedoms. It's good to be mindful of it, but we have to keep it at arm's length, lest it overwhelm us.

Tell the bolded to the parents who lost their children today.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

None of these tragedies were small weapon (concealed carry). They are AR-15 with multiple clips. Both of which were once banned and should still be. Not hard for Congress to see the difference if NRA money and the threat of losing their seat wasn't thrown at them.

[tallguy]

I am forced to wonder if the narrative would change if all of these disaffected shooters were targeting gun shows and conventions rather than schools?  Perhaps not, but let's have 18 of those shot up in six weeks and see what happens.   

[billisonboard]

Feb 14, 2018 21:27:04 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

School shootings are a drop in the proverbial bucket of violence that happens every year in the US. These highly publicized mass shootings make up only a small fraction of that drop.

Federal gun control affects the lives of tens of millions of Americans. School shootings theoretically preventable by gun control affect a few dozen victims each year and their families. There's six orders of magnitude difference to consider.

Either way you look at it, events like this shooting aren't significant enough to justify policy changes, which is why America will never accept them as justification for policy changes. If you want to reduce the number of shootings, it will have to be through instilling a love of pacifism and abhorrence of violence in your countrymen, not gun prohibitions. Think of prohibitions like "The War on Drugs".

ETA: If you can't wrap your mind around the above, follow grumpyhermit 's lead and don't let events like this perturb you. Thousands of Americans die horribly every day in the US from preventable accidents, abuse by their fellow man, and abuse of their own freedoms. It's good to be mindful of it, but we have to keep it at arm's length, lest it overwhelm us.

I agree with you on this but you are underestimating the good olde US of A.  School kids are getting shot at an accelerating rate. We'll get the numbers up to a significant level before too long.

[steff]

Feb 14, 2018 21:36:06 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Feb 14, 2018 21:27:04 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

School shootings are a drop in the proverbial bucket of violence that happens every year in the US. These highly publicized mass shootings make up only a small fraction of that drop.

Federal gun control affects the lives of tens of millions of Americans. School shootings theoretically preventable by gun control affect a few dozen victims each year and their families. There's six orders of magnitude difference to consider.

Either way you look at it, events like this shooting aren't significant enough to justify policy changes, which is why America will never accept them as justification for policy changes. If you want to reduce the number of shootings, it will have to be through instilling a love of pacifism and abhorrence of violence in your countrymen, not gun prohibitions. Think of prohibitions like "The War on Drugs".

I sincerely doubt that would be your reaction if that "drop" were your child!!!

or if it was a gay person wanting to marry or a woman having an abortion.   Those he'll get his panties in a wad over.  Dead kids, no biggie, move on nothing to see here.   Kids being shot in school we just have to get used to.   No reason to be horrified or want to change that.   A so called "christian" being forced to not discriminate, now THAT'S something that is important, not kids shot inside a classroom. 

[billisonboard]

As much as you want to attack Virgil Showlion the messenger, it does not change the fact we live in a culture that killing is an acceptable answer to thwarted desire.

[retread]

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

As ineffective as they seem to be, they probably still have more effect than gun control laws would have.

The problem is less what the shooters have in their hands than what they have in their hearts.  The isolation and desperation that comes from a dismal land of plenty will continue to be a breeding ground for this kind of hate.  It's difficult to make sense of a world where the Kardashians and the Kanyes are revered.  And the value of a pair of sneakers outweighs the value of a youngsters life. 

People are resourceful.  You won't stop them from getting what they want.  We tried to take away alcohol.  How well did prohibition work?  How wealthy is organized crime because of those laws we once had?   We tried to stop drugs.  Has the war on drugs eliminated drugs from our country?  How wealthy are the drug cartels because of the drug laws?

Wanna try this again with firearms?  Do you think it will make a difference?  Personally, I don't believe it can.  Even if those who would do harm with a gun have a difficult time getting one, they will persevere.  And others will become very rich because we tried to legislate guns out of our country, making the sale of a gun a lucrative, illegal business.

Yes, you might keep firearms out of the hands of a few the would-be shooters.  Then there might be a few less shootings.  But then we'll have more bombings instead.  And it will be very difficult to control the sale of fertilizer and #2 fuel oil.

A solution won't come from legislation.  But it might come from inspiration.

Any possible chance we have of reducing the number of these killings will come from the way people treat each other.  Laws are highly ineffective in this area.  Kindness and compassion come from within.  We need to nurture those in ourselves.  Inspire others to do the same.  Then maybe, just maybe we can begin to reach a few of these people before they descend into the madness which causes them to commit such a heinous act.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 15, 2018 0:55:18 GMT -5 retread said:

Feb 14, 2018 20:59:09 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Our thoughts and prayers are doing a fantastic job of ending mass shootings.  

As ineffective as they seem to be, they probably still have more effect than gun control laws would have.

The problem is less what the shooters have in their hands than what they have in their hearts.  The isolation and desperation that comes from a dismal land of plenty will continue to be a breeding ground for this kind of hate.  It's difficult to make sense of a world where the Kardashians and the Kanyes are revered.  And the value of a pair of sneakers outweighs the value of a youngsters life. 

People are resourceful.  You won't stop them from getting what they want.  We tried to take away alcohol.  How well did prohibition work?  How wealthy is organized crime because of those laws we once had?   We tried to stop drugs.  Has the war on drugs eliminated drugs from our country?  How wealthy are the drug cartels because of the drug laws?

Wanna try this again with firearms?  Do you think it will make a difference?  Personally, I don't believe it can.  Even if those who would do harm with a gun have a difficult time getting one, they will persevere.  And others will become very rich because we tried to legislate guns out of our country, making the sale of a gun a lucrative, illegal business.

Yes, you might keep firearms out of the hands of a few the would-be shooters.  Then there might be a few less shootings.  But then we'll have more bombings instead.  And it will be very difficult to control the sale of fertilizer and #2 fuel oil.

A solution won't come from legislation.  But it might come from inspiration.

Any possible chance we have of reducing the number of these killings will come from the way people treat each other.  Laws are highly ineffective in this area.  Kindness and compassion come from within.  We need to nurture those in ourselves.  Inspire others to do the same.  Then maybe, just maybe we can begin to reach a few of these people before they descend into the madness which causes them to commit such a heinous act.

We have been doing thoughts and prayers for years and it is only getting worse. Obviously Someone Above really doesn't care about our prayers. And yes, these shooters seem to be dead inside and have no problem in taking out others to make the murdered loved ones feel as bad as the killer does.

A good start would be allowing the CDC to study why this keeps on happening. We are the only industrialized nation where this happens on a regular basis. Why is that? Let's find out. Let our Congress fund the CDC to study why we are such a violent society and why mass murders are only getting worse and more frequent. Don't threaten the CDC with withholding funds for research if one is not happy with the study results.

Mass murders are real and there are no indications it is going to stop. Let's find out why.

[weltschmerz]

"A good start would be allowing the CDC to study why this keeps on happening. We are the only industrialized nation where this happens on a regular basis. Why is that? Let's find out. Let our Congress fund the CDC to study why we are such a violent society and why mass murders are only getting worse and more frequent. Don't threaten the CDC with withholding funds for research if one is not happy with the study results."

Trump slashed the CDC budget which deals with mental health and HIV/Aids.
There's no money for mental health when we need a bigly wall.

[weltschmerz]

Feb 14, 2018 21:35:14 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

But congress is currently trying to undermine even the few feeble gun control laws that some states have put in place: they are trying to pass a law that if you have an concealed carry license in one state you have it all over the country "similar to a drivers license. So you can continue to protect your family even if you leave your own state".

www.newsweek.com/gun-bill-would-mean-states-cant-stop-people-carrying-firearms-679216

" An NRA-backed bill working its way through Congress could drastically decrease the power states have to determine who can carry guns in their borders—leaving states with strict gun laws open to carriers without gun training.

The NRA, a gun-rights lobbying organization, is pressuring Congress to approve national reciprocity for state-level gun rights—a move that would allow people who legally own a gun in their home state to carry that gun in every U.S. state. That means a resident of a state with permitless carry, would be legally able to enter California, among the strictest gun states, with that weapon. ..."

Didn't Trump roll back a regulation that would have made it harder for a mentally ill person to buy a gun?
Why yes! Indeed he did!

President Trump Blamed the Texas Shooting on 'Mental Health.' But He Made It Easier for Mentally Ill People to Buy Guns

time.com/5011519/texas-church-shooting-mental-health-donald-trump/