Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 18, 2018 20:05:07 GMT -5
Only the best advisors: Trump surveyed Mar-a-Lago members over gun control in wake of school shooting: reportPresident Trump asked members at his Mar-a-Lago estate about their views on gun control in the wake of the shooting at a nearby Florida high school, The Washington Post reported Sunday. Trump reportedly asked the members about whether or not he should take an active stance on gun control laws over the holiday weekend. He also told them that he was closely watching the media appearances made by student survivors of the shooting, according to the Post. Student survivors called on Trump and lawmakers to take action on gun control in the wake of the shooting that left 17 people dead. Several survivors made appearances on Sunday morning shows. The White House announced Sunday that Trump will host a "listening session" with students to discuss school safety measures. Complete article here: Trump surveyed Mar-a-Lago members over gun control in wake of school shooting: report
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 23:43:19 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 19, 2018 10:13:59 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 19, 2018 10:24:14 GMT -5
It looks like a pretty big school - maybe multiple buildings. One guy can't be everywhere at once. Maybe he was in the place where he is usually needed, and the shooter (as a former student) knew that and purposely avoided that area?
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Spellbound454
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"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 19, 2018 10:28:32 GMT -5
Wasn't the PE coach who died also a security guard?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 19, 2018 10:31:44 GMT -5
It looks like a pretty big school - maybe multiple buildings. One guy can't be everywhere at once. Maybe he was in the place where he is usually needed, and the shooter (as a former student) knew that and purposely avoided that area? Aerial view of the high school. Minimally, all the brown-roofed buildings.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 19, 2018 10:35:32 GMT -5
Morning news reported the building in which the shootings took place is to be torn down. Remaining buildings will remain and students will still attended classes in them. Future of school campus remaining at current location is up for debate.
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Spellbound454
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"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 19, 2018 10:38:54 GMT -5
Wow those School kids are really kicking off.
DT says that he is going to look at background checks which are not always done properly.
Its baby steps...... but if this teenager had been on a banned list he wouldn't have been able to get his rifle. He had been reported many times, it seems.
Out of the mouths of babes
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 19, 2018 10:52:09 GMT -5
The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant at Stoneman Douglas is its one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened. “I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.” www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.html
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 19, 2018 10:55:21 GMT -5
The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant at Stoneman Douglas is its one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened. “I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.” www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.htmlNo comment regarding the multiple buildings which make up the high school?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 19, 2018 20:40:06 GMT -5
Wow those School kids are really kicking off. DT says that he is going to look at background checks which are not always done properly. Its baby steps...... but if this teenager had been on a banned list he wouldn't have been able to get his rifle. He had been reported many times, it seems. Out of the mouths of babes If they are to be done as well as those for his cabinet members, don't hold your breath!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 19, 2018 21:38:14 GMT -5
The only person trained and armed to fight back against an assailant at Stoneman Douglas is its one school resource officer, a Broward Sheriff’s deputy funded by the city of Parkland. But Maxwell said she doesn’t think he was on campus when the shooting happened. “I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said. “They are stretched very thin.” www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story.htmlNo comment regarding the multiple buildings which make up the high school? They should have checked at the Dunkin Donuts down the street.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 19, 2018 21:50:04 GMT -5
It looks like a pretty big school - maybe multiple buildings. One guy can't be everywhere at once. Maybe he was in the place where he is usually needed, and the shooter (as a former student) knew that and purposely avoided that area? Must have been pretty smart student to know all the ways around everything there. How he knew how to get on campus. Able to conceal the weapon. Which doors are locked. Knew the fire alarm would unlock all the doors. Knew the students would leave the class room. Knew where the security officer was. Blend in with the other student to escape. Took time to go to McDonalds. This 19 y.o. kid knew how to get around all those security things that the expert designed, with no problem!! Where was the security person who happens to be in law enforcement,, does any one know??
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 20, 2018 14:25:44 GMT -5
I didn't know that it took a particularly bright person to know where the door was in the high school he attended.
They told my kids which doors were locked and why, so it doesn't seem like top secret information.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2018 14:27:12 GMT -5
No comment regarding the multiple buildings which make up the high school? They should have checked at the Dunkin Donuts down the street. or, you know, another wing of the building.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2018 14:28:56 GMT -5
It looks like a pretty big school - maybe multiple buildings. One guy can't be everywhere at once. Maybe he was in the place where he is usually needed, and the shooter (as a former student) knew that and purposely avoided that area? Must have been pretty smart student to know all the ways around everything there. How he knew how to get on campus. Able to conceal the weapon. Which doors are locked. Knew the fire alarm would unlock all the doors. Knew the students would leave the class room. Knew where the security officer was. Blend in with the other student to escape. Took time to go to McDonalds. This 19 y.o. kid knew how to get around all those security things that the expert designed, with no problem!! Where was the security person who happens to be in law enforcement,, does any one know?? He went to school there. He should know how to navigate the school. I can still navigate my HS, 30 years later. And any idiot knows that if you pull a fire alarm at the school, everyone has to leave.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 20, 2018 15:23:58 GMT -5
It looks like a pretty big school - maybe multiple buildings. One guy can't be everywhere at once. Maybe he was in the place where he is usually needed, and the shooter (as a former student) knew that and purposely avoided that area? Must have been pretty smart student to know all the ways around everything there.How he knew how to get on campus. Able to conceal the weapon. Which doors are locked. Knew the fire alarm would unlock all the doors. Knew the students would leave the class room. Knew where the security officer was. Blend in with the other student to escape. Took time to go to McDonalds. This 19 y.o. kid knew how to get around all those security things that the expert designed, with no problem!! Where was the security person who happens to be in law enforcement,, does any one know?? It doesn't take much to impress you, eh? Any eight year old would know that if you pull the fire alarm, students will start pouring out of the classrooms. Why wouldn't he know how to get on campus and where the security office is? He went to school there.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 20, 2018 15:52:26 GMT -5
It appears some need somebody to blame besides the perp and his bloody gun.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 20, 2018 15:56:40 GMT -5
Guns don't kill say the NRA, people do. But people with guns kill. AR-15's are only good for mass shooting.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 20, 2018 16:23:41 GMT -5
If it's not the weapon (or its potential for mass destruction) that's at issue, I guess we don't need to worry about who has nukes, eh? That should save the DOD and State Department quite a bit of money.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 20, 2018 17:01:24 GMT -5
I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them. I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them. Another less important reason is because this crap won't stop and then maybe people will look to the actual root of the problem after they've successfully banned everything else that wasn't the reason. Gotta start somewhere.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 20, 2018 18:13:35 GMT -5
I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them. I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them. Another less important reason is because this crap won't stop and then maybe people will look to the actual root of the problem after they've successfully banned everything else that wasn't the reason. Gotta start somewhere. Kinda like why I have no problem arming teachers.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 20, 2018 21:32:23 GMT -5
Guns don't kill say the NRA, people do. But people with guns kill. AR-15's are only good for mass shooting. I have used one to put a lot of holes in targets, works good for that.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 20, 2018 21:47:51 GMT -5
Must have been pretty smart student to know all the ways around everything there. How he knew how to get on campus. Able to conceal the weapon. Which doors are locked. Knew the fire alarm would unlock all the doors. Knew the students would leave the class room. Knew where the security officer was. Blend in with the other student to escape. Took time to go to McDonalds. This 19 y.o. kid knew how to get around all those security things that the expert designed, with no problem!! Where was the security person who happens to be in law enforcement,, does any one know?? He went to school there. He should know how to navigate the school. I can still navigate my HS, 30 years later. And any idiot knows that if you pull a fire alarm at the school, everyone has to leave. You had an armed security guard on campus,, maybe,, doors that automatic lock, restricted access, I bet there are cameras everywhere. Yet he was able to wander in, shoot people, make a getaway.. He had been in trouble before, not to be allowed on campus with a backpack,, doesn't anyone there monitor who comes and goes?? or can anyone wander in??
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 20, 2018 22:32:04 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 20, 2018 22:37:57 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 21, 2018 8:42:06 GMT -5
I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them. I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them.
You've been converted? Since when is "nobody needs them" a good enough reason to ban something? By this logic, we should ban selfie sticks, pop, trampolines, vodka coolers, tasty-looking detergent pods, and hot tubs. Any one of them claims as many or more lives as AR-15s in a given year. Where did your principles go?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 21, 2018 9:37:30 GMT -5
I hope there is some sort of legislation banning AR-15s and others like them. I really do. And I mean that for several reasons - mainly because I fully believe nobody needs them.
You've been converted? Since when is "nobody needs them" a good enough reason to ban something? By this logic, we should ban selfie sticks, pop, trampolines, vodka coolers, tasty-looking detergent pods, and hot tubs. Any one of them claims as many or more lives as AR-15s in a given year. Where did your principles go?
Weapons are for protection. Weapons are for hunting. You don't need an AR-15 for either of those. They allow for a higher body count in these instances of assaults. Only someone who has no idea what they are talking about can dispute that. Banning them won't stop this stuff. It won't even slow it down. The body counts may be less - and that's a good thing. But it will stop nothing. I doubt that if you child is killed in a shooting, you'll feel "better" that only 5 lives were lost instead of 15.
I still have the same principals I always have. I'm just not going to be a hypocrite and use the "slippery slope" argument about some controls when I so detest that same idiocy in other issues. That other stuff doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with making Tide pods not look so tasty. I'm find with requiring all recreational trampolines having safety nets. I'm fine with seat belts because they made stupid people a little safer and save the tax payers a lot of money taking care of them when they get seriously injured. I'm fine with protecting our kids even if it means I can't have an AR-15.
By the way? You better grow a bit and eat more for breakfast than you had this morning before you spank me. I'm heavily armed.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 21, 2018 10:35:39 GMT -5
You've been converted? Since when is "nobody needs them" a good enough reason to ban something? By this logic, we should ban selfie sticks, pop, trampolines, vodka coolers, tasty-looking detergent pods, and hot tubs. Any one of them claims as many or more lives as AR-15s in a given year. Where did your principles go?
Weapons are for protection. Weapons are for hunting. You don't need an AR-15 for either of those. They allow for a higher body count in these instances of assaults. Only someone who has no idea what they are talking about can dispute that. Banning them won't stop this stuff. It won't even slow it down. The body counts may be less - and that's a good thing. But it will stop nothing. I doubt that if you child is killed in a shooting, you'll feel "better" that only 5 lives were lost instead of 15.
I still have the same principals I always have. I'm just not going to be a hypocrite and use the "slippery slope" argument about some controls when I so detest that same idiocy in other issues. That other stuff doesn't even make sense. I'm fine with making Tide pods not look so tasty. I'm find with requiring all recreational trampolines having safety nets. I'm fine with seat belts because they made stupid people a little safer and save the tax payers a lot of money taking care of them when they get seriously injured. I'm fine with protecting our kids even if it means I can't have an AR-15.
By the way? You better grow a bit and eat more for breakfast than you had this morning before you spank me. I'm heavily armed.
The slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy in and of itself. Incrementalism is a real phenomenon. A man isn't inherently wrong to argue, "If we cede this territory today, we'll surely cede this greater territory tomorrow," especially when powerful lobbies are transparent in their desire to annex the greater territory. We both know a substantial chunk of the American left wants European-style gun control. An equally substantial number of Americans might be swayed in this direction when stop-gap measures like assault rifle bans, background checks, etc. inevitably fail. After all, the problem will still exist, the republic will have judged the safety benefits superior to the liberty costs in enacting prior bans, and the only logical step will be to "progress" until the problem is solved. The principles I'm referring to are: - In the paleoliberal/libertarian view, bans must only target goods/services/behaviours with both i) exceptionally high moral and/or financial penalties (obviously not the case with assault weapons), and ii) little utility relative to their (potential) cost (also not the case for assault weapons, given their popularity among millions of hobbyists and collectors).
- The primary intent of the Second Amendment was (arguably) to provide protection for the states (and states' citizens) from the potential tyranny of the US federal government; therefore the power of the federal government should be taken into account when determining which arms should be legal or not.
I'd previously believed you'd subscribed to both. I won't say it's good or bad that you don't, just... surprising. I'd always thought of you as hard core "liberty trumps security" paleoliberal, hence comments like "I fully believe nobody needs them," and "Weapons are for protection; weapons are for hunting," are a complete upending of my GEL profile.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 21, 2018 11:08:57 GMT -5
I know the slippery slope is real. I'm just saying I can't protest it out of one side of my mouth it promote it out of the other. I'm hoping that it goes the other way. I'm hoping if a ban is instated, and the problem doesn't go away, that Americans will be swayed into looking to the obvious problem areas instead of biting at this issue like a baby on a teething ring.
1. Disagree. Their popularity is like....what do you call it when a man has to have something big? 2. Don't agree. Well...at least not entirely. I agree that it was PROBABLY the primary intent but don't agree that it limits a citizen's right to bear arms to only for protection from the government.
I'm about as far from being any sort of liberal as one can get....paleo or otherwise. Sorry to disappoint you. I absolutely do not agree that liberty trumps security in all cases.
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